Forums IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ Spring Forest Qigong How does SFQ compare with Qigong Shibashi?

Previously I have learnt the 18 forms that make up the Tai Chi Qigong Shibashi style from classes with a master. Can anyone tell me in what ways SFQ and Shibashi are similar or different? I've been thinking about buying the 2 levels of SFQ for some time...

Thanks folks

Well, I don't know Qigong Shibashi, but I have studied Tai Chi Chuan over a period of more than 25 years and have learned various forms. I have also studied other forms of qigong, including private lessons with one master teacher in San Francisco for two years (along with learning Tai Chi from him) and am currently studying 2 qigong forms from a prominent teacher here in my little town. She has published a lot, translated some famous qigong works into English, was the professor of qigong and a well established College of Chinese Medicine in Oregon 9creating the department) and will be certifying me as a teacher in at least one form sometime this year.

These bonafides, don't really mean that much, except perhaps to show that my opinion is considered and I have some perspective.

I find SFQ to to be a superior form and method. I think it is the simplest, most directly effective form I have ever learned. The way it is presented in the home study course is so complete and so simple at the same time that it feels like a little qigong miracle to me.

Compared to 18 forms, the math is easy: SFQ has 5 basic exercises in the active exercise for Level 1 with some very, VERY simple transition steps betwen a couple of the movements. One of the 5 is a little more complex, but not much. It did not take me long to learn the movements or the sequence. Maybe 3 times watching the video (if that), and then practicing with the audio coaching for a few weeks. After that, it was easy to practice to just music or in silence.

The sittting meditations are also easy to learn and do and the way they are presented on the CD/tapes makes it easy to keep progressing.

Everything I have learned from Tai Chi and qigong is precious. I treasure all I have learned. And it all has helped me understand better. Each teacher/school/method has given me important insights into other qigong.

But so far, I like SFQ best of all. It is so simple to learn and do. It is a very transparent method. Chunyin Lin teaches enough theory, philosophy and background to get deeper understandings as one practices the forms.

Aloha BrainBody,

Someone asked me this on a side email a while back, so I went in and downloaded the free video, newsletters, and perused their Forum. As Chunyi Lin would say, there are a lot of ways to peel a potato. It seemed like a helpful tai-chi form-derived system.

There are many good forms out there and Chunyi says to check them out and their teacher, and if one resonates with you - learn it and stay with it for a long time. There are a lot of teachers and "masters" of qigong out there. Chunyi recommends finding one who's done the work - not just a qigong scholar. There are thousands of forms out there - find the simplest that is the most effective. Anyone can repeat what their teacher or book has shown

In the Shibashi forum regarding Learning Strategies and Spring Forest Qigong that I've quoted below. I think I'll address some of the respondent's remarks here.

Profit. Yes, Learning Strategies is a for-profit company that Master Lin is using to get his message out to the world. He came to us for his home study course because of our experience in accelerated learning and training expertise. It costs money to do things right, and and charging for this is an exchange of energy. People who want to learn the core philosophy and exercises to help themselves heal can also do so from an inexpensive "Born A Healer" book. There are also classes, and retreats available, so there are many ways to learn the work, just as there are many ways to get from California to New York. You can walk for free. Bicycle, drive a inexpensive car, drive a Lexus, be driven by a limo, a bus, take a coach flight, a flight in first class, a private lier, or a concord jet. You can get there with each mode of transportation and each have their costs, benefits, and cons. Looking at what is included and provided with the home study course, I personally wouldn't call it "outrageously priced."

Interestingly enough, there will be some that call in, wanting lets say his "Healing Our World" meditation CD for free arguing that charging to heal the world isn't right. Chunyi would probably say "Yes - everyone should be able to, and can, help heal the world. Remember Spring Forest Qigong is information healing. It is message healing. So say a prayer for the world - There you go. That is all I'm doing on the CD." Of course this person wants Chunyi to take the time to go into a studio so he can be saying it and guiding him during the mediation. He wants the professionally editing so it's clear and easy to understand. He wants time taken to add wonderfully crafted music to help bring him into the meditative state. And wants it available so he can call in or request it from his computer and shipped to him on the other side of the world. Well then he wants more than "a walk"/a healing prayer for the world.

Advertising
The well known people sited on the site are there because they know Spring Forest qigong works and their name/likeness may help those people not familiar with qigong take that step to try it. Not only does Master Lin have very well-known people attending his retreats and classes, some of the qigong scholars and doctor who have spent time with him like Ken Cohen and Michael Zeng, M.D.President of International Institute of Chinese Medicine, Santa Fe, New Mexico, and a Commissioner of the National Certification Commission for Acupuncturists and Oriental Medicine, are listed there too as "a specialists in the field."

Bringing Something New
Chunyi continues to tweak his classes and techniques and teachings as he himself develops and grows. In a couple years, what we know as "Level One" may be different than what is taught today. From his meditations, healing work with clients, students interaction and mentoring, all continues the development cycle of how to help one heal themselves and help others heal more easily and effectively. He doesn't just repeat information, or go find out what he can learn from this master or that - he's doing the work and growing with it, just as his students do when they just "do the work." You'll find classic qigong exercises in Level One because he's found them the most effective, You'll find an exercise of his from a meditations he's found most effective as well as a version of the Small Universe (microcosmic orbit), that he's found to be more effective for healing than others he's studies and worked with. You'll learn how you can work on others right away in Level One, as well as a Taoist breathing technique to heal you heal faster. When you get into Levels Two, Three and Four, you'll find more of what has been developed out of his personal study, mediation, and healing experience as well as supportive core information and techniques developed from various schools and systems for decades. He builds on these from his experience, rather than someone else's who says this is why.

Like he says though - there are a lot of ways to cook a potatoes, or get from California to New York. I'd recommend sitting down and putting it out to the universe and your other than conscious mind whether getting the Spring Forest Course is best at this point in your training and personal health and wellbeing in your meditation or before you go to sleep and see what shows up. Personally, it’s what I’ve found effective and use on a daily basis at home (I have a 3 1/2 year-old), my wife got rid of 4-years of Chronic debilitating pain in 30 minutes with one of the exercises (yup, this was after doctors had handed her a thick report saying she’d be on permanent disability for the rest of her life), and we do it at Learning Strategies daily from 11:30-12:00 noon.

Much Love,


Shawn

Quote:

---

PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:38 pm
Post subject: Spring Forest Qigong

Why are there so many variants of Qigong? Shouldn't the original one be good enough to bring health to whoever practices it? I saw a web site advertising yet another form of Qigong ("Spring Forest Qigong" actually):

http://www.learningstrategies.com/Qigong/Home.asp

Has anyone experienced with this variant? How does it differ in its application and benefits compared to tai chi qigong shibashi? Surely the latter can help you heal yourself too?! Is one "faster" than another? Are there any kinds of "dangerous" Qigongs out there (I sometimes feel like my chi is dancing around my dantien, swirling by itself -- or maybe it's just my imagination. It feels weird. I practice alone for now but am considering finding a qualified teacher).

As sifu Cheung mentioned, there are some "outrageously priced" Qigong courses out there, and this is one of them. But I have to admit that the credentials listed on the site -- including no less than bestselling author Deepak Chopra -- make this product tempting.


PostPosted:
Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:06 pm
Post subject: Spring Forest Qigong

Don't get me wrong, but I hope you're standing right for this.

There are as many reasons for as many forms, styles, brands, etc. as there are reasons for brands of cars, denominations of a particular religious group, etc.

Many are the result of someone (or group) trying to eliminate an attribute that is viewed (by them) as a deficiency. They change the original a little and that becomes the new "original" for someone else. Over the decades and centuries, some of the changes are abandoned; some are kept and become a new "style". Within most styles there are minor variations caused by the same thing from instructor to instsructor. Each one tries seriously to do the best they can, but wind up with a minor variation. Most such things are harmless. Some may, in fact, be improvements. In a thousand years or so, you'll know which.

Many are the result of someone (or group) trying to market their product or offering. Being a capitalist myself, I quite understand the concept. I just don't care to do that myself, regarding this particular type of product. I did go to the link in your posting and saw nothing that made it unique, or better. The use of a famous person with an immediately recognizable name, but not necessarity a specialist in the field, is typical marketing.

Many are the result of someone (or group) really inventing something that is new and truly better in certain ways than any previous offering (a la, Tai Chi Qigong Shibashi). Time tests such items and, now and then, demand lets them survive a year, then a decade, then a century, and on. I personally believe that "shibashi" will survive many more decades, perhaps a century, and a millineum.

Well, as usual, ask me what time it is, and I'll tell you how to make a clock; you may or may not find out what time it is.

---

Hello brainbody, Shakurav(Steve?), and Shawn,
When I chose to learn SFQ, I was coming from having spent time in a purely spiritual self practice with a spiritual teacher. I had spent time prior to that in martial systems/martial qigongs. This spiritual teacher would not work with me, without me severing the martial connection. The shift involved me understanding a new way to use energy. Any expression of energy/energywork was shifted to healing, and spiritual transformation. Healing, as a word/concept, focus, underlying energy always present. I came to a point while I was engaged in this spiritual practice, where I began to miss the benefit of physical exercise and physical health/vibrance, that I enjoyed in my earlier self practice. I reapproached that interest through trying a few different medical/spiritual qigong offerings. That type of qigong offering was a fairly new thing at the time. Most of the masters were martial masters too. In hindsight, in my case, I could see that they were good teachers of healers, but not healers themselves. The fire or glow in their energy was very martial. Very bright accomplished energy, but, very martial too. No judgement here. For 'my particular path' that was unfolding, I could'nt be around that energy. SFQ was a very pure feeling expression of healing and spiritual qigong upon my first experiencing of it. Both the energy of the system itself and Master Lin's energy supported that. I know Master LIn enjoys a practice of Tai Chi, and is accomplished, but his Tai Chi practice is not intertwined in any direct way, into the qigong. I can do this qigong free of any connection to martial energy in the traditional sense.
In general terms, you can view a qigong system relative to three ingredients; medical, spiritual and martial. I would say SFQ is medical/spiritual. Any source energy that comes into this system feels pure, healing and transformative. You can perhaps follow your qigong interests relative to the martial/medical/spiritual template.
I've never heard Master Lin criticize any system, Master or whatever. He doesn't react to other systems or their structure or cost,whatever. He leads by being the high level energy of his practice. Once I made an offhanded remark about President Bush regarding a speech I saw him give, what his mouth revealed in a negative sense relative to reading someone's energy via facial marks changes etc, ,,,,,he didn't appreciate it! It wasn't that he was pro Bush or anti Bush. The point was, that it was not a good comment about someone, don't go there. ..
One last thing. Level II SFQ introduces you to detecting and clearing blockages. It is a very direct understanding and practice of working with energy. The active exercise at that level compliments the healing techniques used. You have the ability to help someone else, without their having to learn a set of exercises. You can clear your own or someone else's blockages, in many case, in a few moments. Not everyone wants to learn a form or set of
exercises to help themselves. It is good to promote that if one has the opening to teach. For yourself, you can also more directly clear energy blockages in a very literal sense regarding energy centers, points, meridians and channels. The higher levels of SFQ focus primarily on meditation/spiritual growth, along with more advanced healing techniques.
The criticisms by people about what Master's charge is unfortunate. It is very important that these qigong offerings are becoming more and more available and known. Our conversation about health care and medicine needs to include these new alternative and valid modalities. Everyone has the freedom to make a choice about whether to do something or not, and evaluate the experience relative to the cost. Yesterday, I wore this expensive t-shirt I bought 15 yrs ago. I paid 70 dollars for it, and didn't tell my wife at the time! I've never washed it, and it is still in perfect condition. I've worn it often over the years. I always have the intention not to sweat when I wear it, so I don't
:-) . When I divide the cost by the years I've worn it, it's looking pretty good these days.
love,
gallen

Regarding cost...there is the 6 month money back guarantee.
After practicing it once, it has never occurred to me to return it.

Hmmm...never washed it?
I'm glad you haven't worn it when I've stopped over for fresh soup!



Much Love, Shawn

Shawn,
As I said, the shirt is perfect, and,,,,, I would never wear it and eat soup! I have a pair of pants that are even more legendary, but since you implied my shirt might have an odor, I am going to keep that story a family secret.
love,
gallen

Thanks so much shakurav, Shawn, gallen and Miriam,

It's LOVELY to have you all make the time to respond to my question. I've decided after reading your posts that I will definitely save up to buy the two levels of the SFQ course--hearing your positive input is just what I was looking for to help me feel it was the right thing for me to do (I kind of felt that anyway!).

I also intend to buy Chunyi's 2 new paraliminals to help it all come together consistently.

I really look forward to having some great discussions with you all on the forums. This looks like a quality forum all up, and I'm happy to spend my time learning as well as helping others through what I've learnt.

Hmmm...The secret gallen family pants exercise.

Maybe in 1000 years someone like Chunyi will make it available to the public and in an easy to understand way.



Much Love and a great week to you,

Shawn

Hi BrainBody,

I've also learnt the first Shibashi set, and am currently practicing SFQ.

First off, I'd say Shibashi is wonderful - there's no doubt it has a terrific effect on people.

However, I'd also say that SFQ is in a different league. Perhaps its because of the way it is taught and LS's expertise in putting together a program. But, I think it may genuinely also be the case that Master Lin has put together something much more powerful - at least in terms of simplicity and power.

I guess if you compare Shibashi to level 1 SFQ that's a fair comparison - as the focus is on healing yourself. However, I'd say that the possibilities that SFQ offers for healing others seem much more realistic and achievable than through other Qigong styles.

If you enjoy Shibashi though, I'd keep with it - if it's giving you good benefits why stop! On the other hand, I love SFQ and the amazing sense of peace I have after practicing it - I have never experienced anything like it through any other form of practice.

Hope that helps