Forums IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ Beyond Human Anyone here an expert or knowledgeable on Mantras?

I was wondering if anyone here knows about mantras. I an reading the book Healing Mantras and the author is not responsive. I have a question or few questions on it.

Parag

Who is the author of the Book

Regarding Mantras One of the websites that I was checking out is that of Sri Siva. check it out !

Healing Mantras was written by Thomas Ashley-Farrand whom I've dealt with before. The thing about mantras is that you have to receive an oral transmission from the guru of the mantras (or listen to his recording) and you're wasting your time reading it from a book. A mantra receives its power based on the LoC (level of consciousness) of the teacher. Thomas Ashley-Farrand is not as high on the LoC scale as someone like Sri Siva.

If you get a tape or CD of Sri Siva, then you essentially have Sri Siva and you have the empowered mantras of Sri Siva. this is much better than a book by Ashley-Farrand. (And yes, he has lately become unresponsive. He blames it on his extensive lecture tours, but still ...)

shr33m

shr33m:

Have you done mantras before? Have you used Sri Siva's mantra?

Parag

Yes, I've seen Sri Siva a few times. He comes from the Tamil Siddhas of southern India and he introduced Wayne Dyer to the basic manifestation mantras. The Tamil Siddhas of Southern India are highly advanced and have the knowledge to materialize objects out of thin air. (Now if we could just learn how to do that )

In previous incarnations, Sri Siva was:

"(1) Agastya, the foremost Siddha and author of the Tamil language, as well as countless texts on astrology, alchemy, mantras, sastras, and medicine;

(2) Bhismacharya, a well-respected teacher of martial arts during the period of the epic Mahabharata;

(3) Manikavacakar, an illustrious Tamil Saint who wrote several masterpieces of devotional lyrics on Lord Siva before dissolving into light and;

(4) Swami Ramalingam (Vallalar) - an enlightened Indian saint in southern India who was graced with a light body and continued teaching until 1874 when he dissolved completely into light."

"Agastya was a teacher of Babaji" Babaji was made known to the world by Paramhansa Yogananda in "Autobiography of a Yogi." Marshall Govindan has written about these yogic saints in his book "Babaji and the 18 Siddha Kriya Yoga Tradition." Sri Siva's special siddhi is the burning of karma. Sri Siva has the energy of Lord Shiva (as in avatar).

Most readers may not resonate at this LoC level so YMMV.

shr33m

[This message has been edited by shr33m (edited July 03, 2003).]

In The Relaxation Response, Herbert Benson and Miriam Z. Klipper site studies concerning meditations with and without special, super-secret mantras. If I recall correctly, they found that whatever words, sounds, images, or thoughts were particularly meaningful to the individual tended to produce as good as a response as special mantras.

They emphasized this finding because in TM the instructors say that saying the "wrong" mantra might be dangerous or what not. Or that just saying a normal, everyday word or phrase isn't as good as the mantra they give you.

If you don't necessarily feel the need to have the words you repeat linked to an esoteric, mystical tradition then you can simply search your inner self for the words, images, thoughts, or memories you wish to let your awareness rest upon as you meditate.

The best valid measurement test of metrics in this domain is to calibrate the power of each mantra on David Hawkins' LoC scale and the teacher who passes it on. Science can only measure force. I would take the words of TM instructors with a grain of salt. (If you have an interest in real spiritual growth, discard the TM promulgated by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's folks and look elsewhere.)

One of the original scientists who did the research on the effects of TM (and meditation in general) decades ago told me that the focus of the West with regards to meditation is in the relaxation response and the reduction of stress. The original primary purpose of Eastern meditation (mantra or otherwise) is something else entirely. (This is one reason why products like Holosync cannot compare with traditional meditation methods, contrary to their marketing hype.) Relaxation and stress reduction are only secondary consequences. The scientific research always focused on the physiological results which scientific instruments only can measure. It cannot measure the non-material objectives of true meditation (which is real power and the raising of the LoC level). This is fine for the great majority of ordinary people in the West who are satisfied with mere deep relaxation.

You seem intelligent enough to appreciate reading Power vs. Force by David Hawkins.

May The Power be with you.

[This message has been edited by shr33m (edited July 04, 2003).]

Thanks for the complements, shr33m (shreem in l33t?).

What does LoC stand for? Locus of Control? Level of Control?

I think you bring up an important distinction between the physiological and the spiritual (please forgive me if I diverge from your terminology at some points).

Could you please go into the distinctions between power and force? Also, what do you consider spiritual and spiritual progression. I have my own ideas about it, and I tend to look at it in psychological terms. Idries Shah said something to the effect of spiritual development is development of the capacity of the person to have those 20/20 hindsight visions happen in foresight, when it matters. He was talking about issues of morality, sobriety, and good sense, I think.

I don't intend to put down TM. I have gotten some good results with it. It was a very appealing alternative to the kind of zazen I was taught. In zazen, under my particular zen master, the emphasis was on killing the killer ... controlling and fighting the mind. Of course, that was a losing battle. You can't fight for peace. The approach in TM was much more congruent with the way the mind worked and was generally effortless for me.

I don't know how much spiritual progress I made. But, like you said, it was good for relaxation.

Is power related to the siddhis (I hope I am spelling that right)? If the goal is realization of God consciousness (spiritual growth?), isn't power moot?

LoC = Level of Consciousness based on the Map of Consciousness http://www.the-tree-of-life.com/POWERF~2.HTML

Really, you have to read the book to understand the difference between power and force. The age-old struggle is not between good and evil, it's between power and force.
Ultimately power is superior to force.

When you understand the principles, you begin to realize how profound it is. You can easily choose which self growth program is the better one, saving yourdelf money and time, and you won't have to post questions to the forum like "Anyone tried X?" or "Is Y a good program to buy?" or "Is product X better than product Y?" You'll know which spiritual teachers are worth learning from and which ones are total lamers. You will even know if your S.O. is cheating on you. And all without using unreliable intuition techniques! The simple procedure traditionally requires two people but there are versions floating around for doing the truth test yourself.

Since you haven't yet read the book, brief reviews of "Power vs Force" can be found at http://64.177.173.162/powervsforce/power_vs_force_book_review.htm , http://www.uni-verse.net/Website/Powerforce.htm , http://www.profitadvisors.com/force.shtml , http://www.holisticnetworker.com/bookreviews/powervsforce.html and the preface alone is worth the price of admission http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian/2002/February/feature3.htm .

The ultimate goal of spiritual progress is to merge into Pure Consciousness the ultimate power. Enlightenment is not the real goal but only the beginning of the path to liberation from Maya (the Matrix) aka moksha. A siddha is one on this path who has attained siddhis (like Neo). To be enlightened is to experience the delusion of Maya. Moksha is the liberation from Maya, the end of samsara (the never ending cycle of rebirth) and karma no longer affects you. Everything in Maya is energy and is therefore unreal because it always changes. That which does not change is Pure Consciousness and is the One True Reality. It is only found by going within. It is the Emptiness of Buddhism, the Nothingness of Taoism, the Brahman of Vedanta, the Kingdom of God in Christianity. It is beyond duality - it is the non-dualism of Advaita Vedanta.

The highest level teachings of all the major religions at their core is sourced in Vedanta which preceded them all. The immediate goal of serious aspirants is self-realization of the Atman, the destruction of ego consciousness, the release of all attachments, the achievement of the no-mind state. Zen is the Japanese version of Ch'an Buddhism in China which has a popular technique of contemplating "Who am I?" and this was also the hallmark of Ramana Maharshi in southern India, a famous Vedantin. Buddhism originated in India.

The Koan for today is:

What is the difference between a powerful force and forceful power?

[This message has been edited by shr33m (edited July 05, 2003).]