Forums IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ Beyond Human Girl messing with my mind - help please

Hi there

I have been in contact through telephone and email with a young woman, who used something like speed seduction on me. I've always tried to confront her about it, but she always completely denies it. Yesterday, I confronted her about several of her tactics, like using the words "new direction" and guiding me into a vivid visual state with images of "insects". She totally denied it, and said she was concerned about my email to her about it, she said I must speak to someone about it, as if to say I must have my head read. After reading her email of denial I started believing that the paraliminals must have put me into trance-like states that were making me believe I was experiencing such. Or that I had somehow dreamt it and got reality confused with dreamland. Her denial made me feel more than just confused.

I thought that if she told the truth and said she used such techniques I could live with it, but no. Now I feel like I'm going crazy.

These are the questions I want to ask the people here: Is this a common thing for seducers of this sort to totally deny using such tactics? Could she have been hypnotized to use these tactics when possible? - she said she has never consciously flirted with anybody. And what steps can I take to undo damage done by such seduction? What are my next steps?

Please give your advice
I'm a bit confused by such lies, but how do I believe they are lies. I don't even know if it could have been someone else on the phone.

Regards
Grant

Yes, they are. First and foremost try not to take it too seriously. I don't know if this will help, but try reading these and other related books to be enlightened on this human condition:

1. The Art of Seduction, by Robert Greene (Amusing/sarcastic vignettes in human history about the subject)

2. 48 Laws of Power, by Robert Greene (same genre)

3. Get Anyone to Do Anything: Never Feel Powerless Again -- With Psychological Secrets to Control and Influence Every Situarion, by David J. Lieberman (more clinical)

4. Never Be Lied to Again: How to Get the Truth in 5 Minutes or Less in Any Conversation or Situation, by David J. Lieberman (also more clinical)

Check with Amazon.com for related topics. The first step for a victim of seduction is being aware of the foibles of the human condition, and then just laugh, or do a round of Spring Forest Qigong active exercises.

Hey wait a minute! I think Paul Scheele seduced me to buy Spring Forest Qigong :-)

[This message has been edited by dsss27 (edited September 04, 2003).]

Well, whatever the case, you know that you were concerned and confused. At least you can be certain about that. You know you were in that particular state at the time you wrote that message.

Why not take a breather and get yourself oriented in the present? You could, if you wanted, cut off communication with this chic and take some time to get your head on straight.

I found "insects" to be a curious word. Used for its phonological ambguity with "in sex"? Sounds interesting.

If this chic is a manipulator, you sure had a rather intense response to her.

You can know that your unconscious is very protective of you. It is what can slam the foot on the brakes of your car when it detects the need to, even though you may not have seen the danger consciously. It makes you blink if something might get in your eye. It even makes people take a different route to where they want to go if they unconsciously detect a threat on their current path.

Sounds to me like you were more confused from interacting with her than not. I guess it's a simple question: how do you want to feel? Does this person bring you closer or farther away from it?

You make your own choices. No one can make them for you. Be a man and decide what you want.

From a Natural Brilliance perspective, I have to ask, what is it she WANTS? What is her OUTCOME oriented towards?

Remember, many people, especially women, learn a few tricks that work and integrate them at the level of "unconscious competence." They don't <I>know</I> that they're doing it.

Now, I just had a dream about Speed Seduction, so I'd say that she probably knows damned well what she's doing. The question is, what does she want? If she wants to have sex with you, you can cut to the chase by giving her a simple yes-or-no answer to her roundabout request. If she wants to play around with language, you can either tell her to cut the crap, or you can play along. If she wants to harm you by putting you into obsessive states, you can cease contact. Whatever you NOTICE she's doing, you can RESPOND effectively. But, first RELEASE and get receptive enough to consider overlooked possibilities.

Hi again,

Thanx you are all helpful. Last night after oscillating whether she lied to me or I that I was going crazy and rolling on the floor in absolute agony over how I could have wasted such precious time on such a girl. Natural Brilliance must have kicked in, because I felt a light joy, and slight amusement with the situation. I wish I could know exactly what process I followed mentally, to bring about the amusement, to use for future situations. Dsss27, Babayada and Kaiden your messages are large pieces of the processes I used to pick myself up again. Having this discussion forum here for support was a great help.

For your curiosity, some of the problems were: I used to collect insects so when she mentioned insects in such a fond way, without me even having mentioned my interest in them, I was hooked. I thought hey here's a girl who likes insects like me, wow, she must be heaven sent. With the instant bond she created over the phone I thought she was marvelous - but I realize now how can I have a solid relationship with someone whose skills are appearing as her character. I think she wants a man around for company and I think she's scared she can't get it any other way.

I've decided that I don't mind a woman to be seductive, but she must be open and honest about it. I suppose that is a contradiction in terms. I myself, was interested in seduction at one stage, it appears attractive on the outside, but i'm not sure about the values that go with it, I'm still learning about the dangers, and what a way to learn - being on the receiving end. I'd rather learn that way than hurt someone else and learn. I learnt the best way. Now I'm more enlightened and thankful for the lessons. Maybe I could say that it was the best thing that could have happened to me - Resiliency style.

I also reckon that it's those who feel that they are powerless to create the relationships they desire that use techniques of seduction. It's power for the powerless. She's had it rough in her life, she decided to leave home very young, and she's had to weather many storms on her own, without comfort. In the end she's also going to be a better person than many people, because she's learning all the time.

Concluding, I've decided to end my thoughts of a future with her, due to her dishonesty and several other reasons.

Thanx for your help and support.
You are all very enlightened.

Regards
Grant

[This message has been edited by Grant (edited September 05, 2003).]

Please give me feedback on my response. I know this sounds prideful, but I just want to learn more.

Thank you
Grant

I used to go out with a stripper who was *very* good at manipulating men ... sexually and otherwise.

It was very strange to have a relationship with a woman with whom I could feel safe being affected in ways I would not otherwise want to be affected. That is, people manipulate, often, to get something out of you. Take something from you. My feeling about our relationship that she did so to share. Relationships with people with a great deal of unconscious competence in this area can be extremely hot.

We broke up, and breaking up with her was extremely difficult (that is, getting to the point where I said no). But once it was over, it was over. It was a bit of relief, because the relationship was one hell of an exciting roller coaster ... but a roller coaster none-the-less. You can only go up and down so much before you want to get off the damn thing.

If often feels that people and situations have power over us when they really don't. It really isn't about the power, it's about what we want and what we're willing to put up with in order to get it. A lot of times it's also about fooling ourselves into thinking we're getting or going to get something we're not. And that foolishness, I think, has a great deal to do with the satisfaction of certain desires (to feel certain ways about oneself, to have certain beliefs satisfied and validated). These certain desires can find their satisfaction more adequately, fully, and lastingly in a variety of ways that are by no means troublesome.

So, basically, Grant, this chic didn't really have power over you at all. Having "power" to "control yourself" is really only the process of getting clear about what you want, what you don't want, and being sober, perceiving the world within and around you with a great deal of accuracy.

Remember also that if you get attached to something, be it an outcome to a situation or a person, if this doesn't work out for you it will create suffering in your life. How much depends on the degree of importance you have placed on this.

By no means hold back in your life, but don't be attached to the outcome of anything. Of course with a relationship there is always a degree of attachment but take things slowly until you are sure that you know the person and that you both wish to go to a higher level.

Never rely on the other person for your own happiness and remember to maintain your individuality. This will keep things interesting and allow you both to grow stronger both by yourselves and as a team.

Best wishes

I thought that if she was trying to use seduction she wants something more than just a friendship. She always had the idea that we were just friends, but she still used seduction on me. I don't know if I know what she really wanted. It sounds silly to try to seduce someone and then say we are always just friends. Kaiden was right, you have to know what the girl wants and I've never really thought deeply about what her intentions were. Maybe she just wanted to drive me crazy. Say she wants me kind of thing, but that's a lie and then push me away. Like some kind of tease and game to frustrate the men who choose her. Maybe she loves teasing and titillating her men. She always has the upperhand then. She feels she has the power. Another aim I think she could be trying to achieve is to have men who hang on to her, like bees to a flower.

She did satisfy my desires to a certain degree, I had some idea of what I wanted. She seemed to meet the expectations. But now I see her as the above. I'm clear I don't want a relationship where she thinks I'm just sweet. You know how little girls are with little boys - something like don't touch me, but kiss my feet - a power game. She also goes through men fast and furiously, living with this man then that. I've just been foolishly hanging on waiting for my turn.

On the other hand she might be confused, but I don't like the dishonesty, it creates problems. I want to communicate right to the heart of a person, I don't want games. As for sobriety, I'm improving, but I've had very little experience with girls. My little experience with girls, means I have alot to learn still. However I do have a sister, one advantage.

Thanks for your responses you have given me alot to think about.

Regards
Grant