Forums IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ Beyond Human Beliefs - encoding?

Tore,

Reinducing a drug state is a pretty basic pattern. All you do is have a person relive the kinesthetic sensations associated with the drug state.

Basically, these are the questions I asked:

"You know how it feels to be sober, right? You're standing here with me and you're sober right now, right? You know how it feels to stand up sober, to listen to me sober, to feel your body sober, it's distinct."

Then, have then contrast that.

"And you know how it feels to be drunk, right? It's very different from being sober. It's very different from how you feel now. Go back and remember the last time you were drunk. Now, you didn't just go WHAM and get there, right? You went through a series of stages as you drank to get yourself drunk. For instance, when you start to have your first drink or two, I don't know how much it takes, but you have a sensation in your body that lets you know that you are no longer just sober, but you're certainly not yet drunk, but it's starting, right? Remember that? Tell me what it feels like."

Then you go through the next stage, and the next stage of continuing intoxication until full blown drunkenness. You ask for descriptions and pick a few of their key words for each state or stage in the process regarding body feelings. You then go through it again and again, the process of getting drunk using their own language, their own feelings, and tell them to feel those sensations. Ask questions about it.

You can cycle through the whole thing maybe three times. Then don't talk about all the stages, but the last 4, then the last 3, then the last one.

If you do this with anchoring and embedded commands then it'll work pretty well.

Bandler goes through this technique on a lot of his tapes.

Remember, all hypnosis is essentially self-hypnosis. What you do, mainly, is to get them to do your work for you. All you need is to recognize a few key buttons to push and when and how to push them. When someone wants to be hypnotized, it's usually in the bag, because they are so curious and helpful. They want to experience something unusually. You're basically assisting them with self-stimulation.

The stacked states were states of trance and suggestibility, drukenness, and the state of being stuck in a state for a long time. The guy wanted to experience full-fledged drunkenness, so I made sure he got his money's worth.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited May 11, 2004).]

Interesting. About NLP and all.. Have heard some critique over time about NLP beeing pretty temporary in it's effects. What do you think?

Keeping the change...

T

How speciifically is NLP pretty temporary in which of its effects?

NLP is still around and still has people interested in it and practicing it. It was started years ago. That's pretty un-temporary if you asked me. It continues to fascinate. That's one effect.

I started to learn NLP while in college, around 1993, I think. It's 2004. Still has had an effect on me. I am still talking about it. The stuff that happened at the month long training *still* has me talking about it and still informs my behavior in some way. I think a decade is a fairly long time, don't you?

The mind is alive and is always changing. There are information structures that are fairly solid. It is not impossible to influence these structures in a significant way that will alter their functioning over time.

Think of our solar system. Remove or add a planet. It affects the whole system. Alter the orbit of a planet or a moon, alters the whole thing.

The trick is, where and how do you make the change that will have the desired effect throughout time.

Here is one example: once I learned the distinction regarding eye movements and sensory modalities, I could *not* look at people's eye movements the same way. Still can't. That was a permanent change.

And here is the real clincher regarding your question: your question has deleted the actor. That is, NLP is not a thing in an of itself. People do NLP. So, my question is, which person practicing what they called NLP produced a temporary effect?

Which person practicing an NLP technique can have a positive long term effect how?

That person could be you or me or the garbage man. It just depends on how the person does it and with whom. Each client is different. Each practitioner is different. And when you get any two people to interact, the nature of their interaction will be unique.

In short, you *can* produce long term change with NLP. Of course you can. You can create long term change in someone with a hatchet. The question is, what change do you feel is worthwhile and whats the best way to create it for you or for the client?

"The mind is alive and is always changing. There are information structures that are fairly solid. It is not impossible to influence these structures in a significant way that will alter their functioning over time."

I'm guess it's pretty possible that the people with critique against NLP haven't had success in that.

"The stuff that happened at the month long training *still* has me talking about it and still informs my behavior in some way. I think a decade is a fairly long time, don't you?"

Oh yeah. And 30 days of training must be great.

I think the hazards lies in going to a short training or walking over some coal with Tony, and getting into some fantastic state. I can do anything, etc. But the state is temporary and will soon wane. There's been no change of beliefs at the right place in the beliefsystem.

I've read shortly about eye-cues. What info can _you_ register from it?

I'll be gone for a few days. I look forward to read more after that. : )

T

With eye accessing cues, calibrate.

Ask questions that require someone to think a certain way, visually, auditorily, kinesthetically, whatever.

When you get their patterns down, you can then ask questions like, "Is that an image you're looking at there? What do you see?"

You can basically help people get conscious of what is unconscious. And, if you're sneaky, you can manipulate people's thinking by gestures and analogue vocal marking that tells them what to do.

I can register that someone has a mental image, or they are talking to themselves inside, etc. I can then ask questions regarding their mental processes and learn about it, thus having a greater influence over their mental processes.

Think of it this way, when you interact with a person, you are walking inside of their minds. Their minds are projecting their internal universe in 3D space around them. You can stand right in front of someone and they won't see you because an image is between you and them. Watch people when they space out and describe scenes, watch how their eyes focus and defocus. You can tell they are looking at something yonder, or right next to them. Or when they are talking to themselves or hearing a voice, their body will orient to listen.

After a while, you can sort of start to see and hear what is going on inside their minds. The more you do that, I think, the more influence you have.

Influence can be a good thing. I am not just talking about manipulation here. I am talking about a dialogue that deepens and deepens over time. Because the more you affect them, the more they affect you. So, as the process continues, you and the other can really get somewhere. Sometimes people are not used to having others so deep inside their thinking, to have someone there with them inside the thinking process. You can have a dialogue, and you both can end up thinking about things in ways you never have. What was a dead process becomes alive again.

This is, I think, part of what therapy is all about. Bringing life to a dead decision, belief, or thought.

You can influence someone deeply in a short amount of time. Thing is, people have many continual influences on them. Family hypnosis will always win, I believe that is a quote from someone ... don't remember who.

This is why cults want to get you away from your family and friends, because they want to control the influences upon you.

Certain changes can be difficult to make, no doubt. But here the example of the engineer applies. There was a ship that was having massive problems. They bring in an engineer. He goes to the engine room, asks them to describe the problem. Looks around. Checks gauges and what not. Feels along various pipes. Sniffs the air. He then grabs a wrench and whacks a certain pipe with it. The problem disappears.

He gives them the bill, and they are flabbergasted. "$3002.00? How do you explain this.?" "The 2 dollars was for hitting the pipe with the wrench. The 3 thousand was for my knowledge of knowing exactly where and how to hit."

The emphasis on eye movements makes a larger statement about the entire human physiology. The entire body is involved in the thinking process. Therefore, it reveals information about the thinking process. Because people process information in internal maps that, with the internal senses, mimics reality, they will react with their bodies to that second reality (their map) and the way it is coded. The more you open your senses to that, the more information you get about someone, the deeper you are able to connect.