Forums IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ Beyond Human Tons of advertisment from Centerpointe

Hi,

I see the issue of Centerpointe sending out too much advertisment coming up in a lot of threads, and wanted to give my opinion about it.
Some people complain Centerpointe sends too much of it. Others say they like receiving information about other good programs.
Some think it depreciates Holosync, under the reasoning that Holosync was supposed to solve everything in the first place.

First I'll say that I fall in the category of those who do appreciate receiving info about other programs. Especially since I really like what Bill Harris has created, things that he endorses do get my attention.

Second, Holosync is not supposed to be a cure-all : it accelerates your personnal growth and solves a very BIG issue : that of stress management. But it does not teach anything in many other areas worthy of attention. It's not Centerpointe's vocation to do wealth management training, relationship counseling, voice training, etc...

Finally, no-one yet seems to have noticed that this is part of a global markleting strategy, that is proving very effective. Centerpointe recommends, say, Gay Hendrick's relationship counseling course, and Gay Hendricks in exchange recommends Holosync. It's a win-win for both as they both get extra customers from the deal, and in the end more people are exposed to Holosync meditation (which I think is a good thing).
Actually, this was how I got into Holosync in the first place : I read CHet Day's newsletter on natural health, where he endorses Holosync, so I went to see Centerpointe's website. I asked to receive the free demo and registered for Mind Chatter, their newsletter. There I learned about Bob Scheinfeld's "Invisible Path" program. I registered to HIS newsletter. then I thought Holosync was too expensive, and asked to be taken off their mailing list. I continued receiving Bob Scheinfeld's newsletter, and finally in one issue he recommended Holosync. That made me go back to their site, and since at that time I had gotten a new job, I finally decided I could afford it.
So the route wasn't direct at all. And probably many customers have a long history of hesitating before purchasing like I did.

I'm quite happy with the way Bill Harris does his marketing.
If you find it annoying, just get off his mailing list, don't go to his site, or choose not to be annoyed !

Beauty (or ugliness, annoyment, etc...) is in the eye of the beholder !

Cheers to all,

Erwan

Erwan,

I completely agree with you. Also everyone who does not like the flood of ads can have it stopped by unsupscribing.

Cheers,

If you like to be brain washed, please keep it to yourself and be considerate for others.

I am sorry but I feel I had to throw in a wet blanket in you, did Bill pay you to brain wash the poor avergae Joe's here? Some people have tough time making the ends meet, they really don't need to be scammed by that con man. Be kind!

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Originally posted by Fear Not!:
If you like to be brain washed, please keep it to yourself and be considerate for others.

I am sorry but I feel I had to throw in a wet blanket in you, did Bill pay you to brain wash the poor avergae Joe's here? Some people have tough time making the ends meet, they really don't need to be scammed by that con man. Be kind!

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If you want to offer consructive comments then do so. Nothing in the above post offers a valid point or reasoning. I consider your post a personal attackjust because they have expressed a view about a product and service.

Everyone has the right to offer an opinion. Whether I or anyone else agrees or not, is not the point.

If you wish to disagree offer something constructive otherwise consider your own advise, "please keep it to yourself and be considerate"

Alex

Thanks Alex, point well taken.

I would like to re-word my comment so as to appear "constructive":

Since there is no objective clinical data to back Holosync's claim for the benifits of its products, and since none of the clients who completed the advanced levels of Holosync is willing to come out to share any possitive experience with Holosync, it makes perfect sense to caution any potential buyers, escpecially those un-informed consumers, so that they could make better, more informed decisions whether to spend their hard earned money on something that is full of promises but could not be backed up with any facts and clinical research data, I firmly belief this is constructive, not personal attacking.

Thanks. Peace and Love to all!

They didn't have any objective information that a Car is a good mode of transport when they first invented it. They tried to stop progress on that saying it was a harmful thing. It became popular amongst those that had money and advertising.

I don't know if Holosync will be found to be more effective than other methods but there is evidence that entrainment does alter brainwave. And there is benefit gained by a majority using entrainment systems.

Holosync may not be the best choice for everyone but then not everyone needs to drive a Mack truck on the road either.

I will also concede that the people who warned that cars are a dangerous thing were right. We have to learn to use and respect what we are using. I choose not to ride a motorcycle because the risk of injury is greater and I can argue that they are expnsive and only sold for a glorified image. Still it is a personal choice and just because there is no objective data, everyone who uses it can explore whether they experience any subjective results that may one day be collected and tested objectively.

For the record I am not a Holosync customer. I made my personal decision about the product some time ago.

Alex

This may come as a shock to some, because I have continually spoken in a harsh manner against Centerpointe and its products.

In one of the many discussion on holosync, Erwan suggested that I give holosync a real go with an open mind and then see if it would do anything for me.

I think he did not know that I had given holosync a try and had decided that it really wasn't worth the price and its effects could be duplicated.

I thought about his suggestion and decided to try again. I have been listening to the Awakening Prologue for the past two weeks every day. I have also listened to the Awakened Minds product (Insight), plain binaul beats created by BWGEN, and several hemisync products.

In comparison, I have to say, honestly, that the Awakening Prologue *does* produce a profoundly deep state of meditation. It is considerably deeper than those states produced by any other product I've tried.

Over the past two weeks I have experienced some overwhelm, but I think my experiences with traditional meditation and my background in NLP have helped me accept my experiences and flow through them. I have also already noticed a small but meaningful shift in some of my emotional responses on a daily basis.

I can feel, while listening, that the technology is creating a stable, steady, and peaceful state that underlies pretty much all mental and emotional activity. I can see how continuing this process would produce, more and more, an underlying state of serenity in life.

So, Fear Not, I have to admit from experience that this stuff does work, and for the purpose of meditation it is superior to other products.

I still, however, feel concern over the cost of the product and the system Bill Harris has produced. In my opinion, money is a primary motivation here.

I do not think it will do all those grandiose things advertised. It does, however, produce a palpable result. The question is: is it worth the price?

If you haven't given it an honest try, and I don't know if you have or have not, then you cannot say you are coming from an informed standpoint. If you have, well, then perhaps it doesn't do for you what it does for others.

Alex,

Thanks for your comment. I have great repect for your knowledge, wisdom, and objectivity, but I found your comparing the invention of car to brain entrainment benifit un-intelligent and arguemental. Many here have studied NLP, linguistic patterns and arguementation, we know such arguement will not stand any ground.

Car was invented as means of transportation.

The physical evidence that a car can take you from point A to point A, is solid and sufficient, we don't need research data to prove that. Your comparision may make sense if Mr. Ford advertised that by buying his car you will be able to travel to Moon or Mars if you keep practicing driving and have completed level 12 of driving with 12 new cars that would cost $3,000,000. Mr. Ford advertised cars that is drive-able, that can take you from point A to point B just a horse carriage can, it is more efficient than horse carriage, etc., etc., all are tangible and verifiable, but I am afraid Holosync's claims are not!

Brain entrainment may or may not be helpful to our personal development, and even if it does, there is absolutely not evidence Holosync is better than similar brain entrainment audio products that are available in the market, the technowlogy used in these products are the same, the low carrier frequencies that Bill claimed to be unique to Holosync, is widely available in many other products that are much more cost effective, the technology that can be used produce any audible carrier frequencies or beyond, is available on the Internet, free! anyone with a computer and some basic experience in using a personal computer can easiely produce his or her own brain entrainment cds that are every bit as good as Holosync, actually infinitly better than Holysync, because he or she can control the entrainment frequencies, carrier frequencies, background noises, afirmations, etc., etc., The frequencies used in Holosync, Hemi-Sync and all other products can be analyzed easiely with wave spectrum analyzer programs or physical devices, the analized results have been abailable on the Internet for many years.

Such information were not easiely available to average consumers, but with the growth of Internet and on-line community, they are now!
With the awareness and understanding of what brain entrainment technology is all about, why claims like "our brain entrainment technology is better than my competitors' because we use lower carrier frequencies (or any other fansy technical terms)", become very obvious: they are not true!

My intent is to inform people that there are options available to them if they so decide to take the brain entrainment route, if after knowing they have options and they choose to go with Holosync, I don't have anything against that, it's thier choice, but I believe they deserv to know that there are options and alternatives.

Peace and love to all.

Babayada,

Thanks very much for sharing your experience. I have read your other posts and I have great respect to many of your insights. I just have a question about your experience with all these brain entrainment products:

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I have been listening to the Awakening Prologue for the past two weeks every day. I have also listened to the Awakened Minds product (Insight), plain binaul beats created by BWGEN, and several hemisync products.

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How could you tell that these positive effects that you believed are the results from listening to Holosync, are really exclusively from listening to Holosync alone, but not the accumulative effects from your listening to these other products?

Why before Erwan gave you that suggestion, your listening to Holosync was non-effective, and this time around it is different? I could gather at least two factors of influence: A positive suggestion from someone you trust, and those additional listenings you mentioned.

These are just my questions, there is no judgement, no arguement, just questions.

Peace and love to all.

[This message has been edited by Fear Not! (edited February 02, 2005).]

About my first estimate of holosync:

I was really psyched up from reading the propaganda about it and my expectations were much higher than they should have been. I listened for a while, and it did have an effect, but not the one I was looking for. I looked back on how foolish I was for being gullible and stopped listening.

My second, recent, approach was to go into the experience with no expectations, just to experience it as it was and see what happened.

As to your questions about how do I know it was holosync, well, I am assuming you've actually used some of this technology yourself. When you do use it, you can feel the effects it has. The experience of listening to holosync vs. hemisync and others is very distinct. The feeling and the state of mind are different enough as to be easily compared.

As to the cumulative effect of all technologies, I have not listened to hemisync in quite a while, I used to use it A LOT, and I listened to the Awakened Minds cd many times in the past and twice recently to make a comparison. The proximity in time and amount of use of the other products is such that I feel I have made a justifiable comparison.

So, in my subjective experience, take it as you will, holosync is just plain better.

Supposedly there are just binaural beats at a lower carrier frequency ... but I think there may be some extra things going on that Bill Harris doesn't disclose. Jeff referred to this in one of the discussions.

I don't know what causes the difference, because I have played around with binaural beats at the same frequencies using low carrier signals with BWGEN. The experience is just not the same.

In terms of pricing and all the claims, sure, it's a scam.

But if you take away the advertising and hype and use the product as is, it really is very effective.

I think in order to get results you have to come at it with the right mindset and to have various meditational or mental/emotional skills with which to handle what happens during and after your sessions. I think with the bonus lecture CDs in the Awakening Prologue they attempt to do that, but I think a few guided meditations may be better.

I both agree and disagree with you, Fear Not. There is a lot of hooey around holosync, but I have to admit that the product does work. And by work I don't mean do what it's advertised to do. I mean that it brings you into a deep, profound meditational state, and it's better at doing that than the other products I've tried.

I think the results go beyond suggestion, because, believe me, I *wanted* the Insight CD to be better than holosync. Same with hemisync. Same with BWGEN. But, they just aren't.

I certainly wouldn't advise someone to start paying 300 bucks a pop per level of holosync, though.

Its a shame that they aren't more reasonable with their prices.

In terms of spectrum analysis and all that, I really don't know what to say. I have never used one of these programs, and I have not been trained in analyzing that sort of visual data.

If, in fact, holosync is simply rain and crystal bowl or bell sounds with .3 frequency binaural beats delivered at low carrier frequencies ... well, I do not know how to account for the effect. Perhaps it is a gestalt of all the sounds in combination? Perhaps if you took the ambient sounds and just delivered your own, BWGEN created frequencies into it the effects would be identical. I don't know.

These are interesting questions, and perhaps some motivated business person might want to take advantage of the possibility and offer a competitive product that really does it.

Awakened Minds doesn't. Their CD is simply mellow, it's more like a gentle sedative. Hemisync doesn't. While good, I just don't feel as deeply serene and aware.

Don't know what to tell you. Am I perplexed.

One thing you should take notice of, however, and this is what really convinced me to give it another try: notice how caustic I have been and notice how certain individuals have always responded to me in a balanced and calm manner.

These are long standing holosync users. They might be like that naturally, or they might be like that because of persistently using the technology. I am trying a personal experiment of using it for an extended period of time to find out. Check with me in a year and I'll tell you how it's gone.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited February 02, 2005).]