Hi Kaiden. I'm not sure if that last post was meant to be for me or Alex, as it doesn't seem to adequately answer the points any of us raised.

As I haven't heard of this experiment by Bandler, could you please give me some details? I'd like to know the following:

1. Who monitored and controlled the experiment?
2. How many tapes were given out?
3. How can this be considered a test of subliminal suggestions when (a) a conscious input was given (b) ocean waves do have a relaxing effect?

quote:
Originally posted by Kaiden:
The conclusion that Bandler reached was that one audible lie ("this is a relaxation tape") was better than a hundred unheard suggestions.

Indeed. I had thought we had already agreed on the difference between conscious and unconscious suggestions. Since there was conscious input as well, all this shows that conscious input may override unconscious input, which you yourself have said, but it does not prove that unconscious input has no effect, which is what I presume you were pointing out. From Alex's post:

quote:
Originally posted by AlexK:
A common belief regarding consciousness is that conscious perception enables one to use the perceived information to act on the world and to produce effects on the world (cf. Searle, 1992). In contrast, unconsciously perceived information leads to more automatic reactions that cannot be controlled by the perceiver. This distinction between the active and passive consequences of perception has been captured in a number of experiments demonstrating that consciously perceived stimuli allow subjects to follow instructions, whereas unconsciously perceived stimuli lead to much more automatic reactions (e.g., Debner & Jacoby, 1994; Merikle & Joordens, 1997; Merikle, Joordens, & Stolz, 1995).

You still remain on the grounds of auditory subliminals, which does not answer the issue on which you challenged me in which I brought up photoreading.

Also, if I got you right, and you're saying that auditory subliminals don't work, then you appear to be challenging yet another product - holosync. Perhaps you could comment on this?

Furthermore:

quote:
Originally posted by Kaiden:
Perhaps 21st century subliminal technology is much better than that of last century.

If you aren't sure, then why are you bringing up old experiments and ignoring the recent and ongoing university research brought up by Alex?

quote:
Originally posted by Kaiden:
I would never dream of telling anyone how to invest their self-improvement budget.

Oh? To my understanding, that is precisely what you did in your first post in this thread. Just one other example:

quote:
Originally posted by Kaiden:
This may not be the type of solution you're looking for, but 5-HTP has really helped me a bit with the ultra-anxiety. Combined with the Natural Brilliance Generator, it allows one to seriously change situations for the better. Just make sure that you don't combine 5-HTP with St. John's Wort. The effects are a combination of insomnia with the don't-give-a-hoot attitude of "Office Space."

The above is from the following thread: http://www.learningstrategies.com/forum/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000549.html
There are many more.

KWLee