Forums IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ Spring Forest Qigong Collecting Energy

Hello Qigongers,
During the level 2 active exercises when we breathe in energy through every cell of our body we are supposed to collect the energy in either our middle dantian or our lower dantian. My question is: What is wrong with collecting the energy in both dantians at the same time?
Happy Qigonging.

Half here half there approach when I consider it. Rather than giving one tank the full top up we leave it partly empty by adding a bit to both tanks. I know it's a bit of an odd analogy. But if neither one is fully energised then it is easier for blockages to return.

That is my way of looking at it.

Alex

Hi,
Please allow me to ad to Alex's response...

The lower dan tien, and middle dan tien are very different in nature. In qigong , there are 'three' dan tiens. The experience in focusing on one, is different than the experience of focus on another. The middle dan tien, is very multi dimensional. What one can find in the heart, is very different than the lower. Focusing on both, or seeing that, if I do that, doesn't put me deeply in either. I get a different view of self, in a more generalized/combined reference. It is an interesting question you pose, but,perhaps, not being a 'master', it is one that loses validity quickly! The exercises are given in a 'way'.
The way comes from a master, and master's masters. If you haven't mastered it, questions like this are more an intellectual exercise. It is best to follow the lead given you by a master.
The lower dan tien , for instance , specifically relates to the 'physical' body.
That energy center, and work done there, translates to physical self healing, or in the case of martial arts focus there, energetically enhancing physical power. Now when you get to the middle dan tien and level II, you start to engage with a center of a very different quality. It isn't just an 'image' of focus. Level II practice, is a channelling of energy, through a center of emotional feeling. An potential act of loving, to put it one way. Also, you are projecting this quality of energy(intention again) through your sword fingers, and thunder palms. This additional focus, other than the 'experience' of heart center and the depth within that center, is alot. More than I can fathom at this point , in the sense of full discovery of what lies within that center. Many traditional practices that focus just on enlightenment,for instance, often move through or into the heart as a 'realm' to start one's path with that intent.
It is different say, to see a picture of two hills in a landscape, rather than to actually go and stand on top of one. When I view myself as you suggest, I just get a picture, I don't go into these centers to the same depth, as singular focus. Not to say , at some level of practice, that there isn't something valid, to what you've said relative to some possible practice. I don't think you can envision 'two' energy centers, and clearly experience their qualities and make the connections, so to speak, regarding their different natures. Likewise, there is much feeling to explore in the relationship of middle dan tien focus, and the channelling of both spiritual(ohm) and universal energy, through that center. As you do that, you are also tapping an energy center of love and compassion. There is a great depth of experience within that center.

There is more to the practice, than just making an image of one or both centers, and seeing that, and infusing it with energy.

My personal preference in having practiced SFQ in a sequental way from the beginning through the four levels, is that the transition from Level I, with focus on the lower, and then doing level II, moving to the middle, made alot of sense. Although you can do level II in the lower, it greatly changes the nature of the exercise. Thunderpalms, for instance could be found practiced in even a martial context. The focus, would be on the lower dan tien. At that point of focus, it becomes an energetic exercise, relative to one's physical body(not to mention a shift in intention). This can have, of course, great value too, and if I was practicing level II, and feeling need of addressing the physical aspect of self, I might move it there. My intention, even though I move it there, does not make it martial though. This is relative to one's more specific intention. In SFQ practice, my intention would be to help my physical body if I moved it there in Level II active, not necessarily to develop a powerful palm strike or strength of presence, in putting my palm(arm) out, in martial context. Personally, I can't imagine doing 10,000 hands , with focus on other than my heart center. It is such a powerful 'spiritual' exercise that for me, makes most sense grounded in my heart.
So you work with these centers, relative to purpose, or one's intention too.
One other point. Five element theorey, prevades SFQ. The heart, is king, even in that theory involving the five primary organs,organ systems, heart included. The heart has an effect on the total of this. One can, through the heart, take care of the body, from this perspective. In SFQ, for instance, you have the smile, that is so important. Happiness, or heartfelt joy, heals the physical body. A relationship between middle dan tien, and physical body. Also, the act of helping others heal, as a priority to helping oneself, greases the wheels of one's own self healing, when one's focus turns there. Another relationship between two aspects of selfwork and energy centers.
Creativity is a good thing, and you should look at possibilities within your practice, but it is best to contain that within the context of what is presented for you to do. If you stay on that path, it takes you 'more directly', to a good end result.
love,
gallen

Hello Gallen - If one is dealing with depression which comes from the heart but affects the physical body,then would it be best to focus in the middle dantain. The smile seems so important to healing, but it is difficult to achieve and maintain when depressed - it feels imposed and false. When I first began SFQ I immediately felt much better - more physical energy, less physical pain and a better frame of mind. It lasted for about 6 weeks and then it's as if a huge blockage appeared that I haven't been able to move past. I have continued to practise faithfully using the first 4 Level 1 Active Ex. in the am and Small Universe in the pm, but haven't been able to move forward. During my practise I have to consciously and continually remove the frown from my face and try to replace it with a smile. I don't know why this seems so difficult. My physical energy is low as is my emotional/mental energy. I have felt some spiritual awakenings. I'm wondering if it's time for a change - should I maybe try to focus in the middle dantain?
Any help/suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Etoile

Hi Etoile,
My heart goes out you. You are doing great work.
No matter where a blockage is sourced, you touch it, or effect it, from any place you practice, as far as where you are focused in your practice.
Your 'intention' is to improve, release extra energy/blockages, open up... Be it active exercise, or meditation, you move things in the right direction.
In a way, saying one should focus in the middle dan tien , or heart center, if one is experiencing depression, is a self diagnosis, similar to like someone saying their arm hurts, and they focus their to remove a blockage. Although you might find more effect from trying a different focus, remember that you are more than your blockage, and your overall wellbeing benefits from a balanced practice, or the practice of qigong in general. Something may be in your face, but at the same time, you have your whole self that benefits from your practice.
During practice, you repeatedly open up. Just the merging with the universe, opens you. Relaxation, opens you. Visualizations, aid in moving energy, releasing energy. Regardless of where you focus, you can support this basic direction of opening and releasing, in your visualizations, and always hold your intention.
There can be places one comes to in one's practice, where you feel you plateau. Perhaps, you lose a sense of progress. I spoke with Master Lin once, about this once. I think this idea is one thing, good for you to take in account. I was healthy, but feeling no progress. Sometimes, if I switched to a different exercise, I would feel something, and think it was progress. He told me that I was on the edge of a bigger change. Changing my practice gave me a new feeling, but it wasn't really progress. Rather, staying the course, would 'eventually' shift things, and things would move again. I have felt this type of cycle , more than once in my self practice. Times where you feel like you are only treading water. I have learned, that these are points of great possibility, and focused work, 'will' bring about change, and shifts to higher levels of being. Bottom line, keep your practice going, regardless of how you see your progress. Shifts will come.

Another aspect of practice, is that the energy changes. One day you feel very effective, or great from your accomplishment in practice, another day you don't, and things seem difficult. I asked Master Lin once about this too. He took his hand and made a rollercoaster gesture in the air, saying that the energy changes. Your experience might change from day to day, regarding how things go for you. Again, one has to step back and realize a bigger picture of the 'fact' that you still move in the right direction.
Back to your original question about focus in the heart. Obviously, that has to couple with a specific practice, so I assume you mean doing level II, and focusing on the middle dan tien. I would follow your intuition regarding this. If you are in a practice of either, you don't make a mistake. You are not missing the boat. Remember the basic concepts that underlie one's practice. You 'are' promoting opening up. Even when one might not feel any progress, you hold this potential, you keep doing the work,,,change will come, shifts will happen.
Mindfullness is also important. All the thinking that comes up regarding self critique of results, or just negative thoughts, or unproductive thinking, or thinking too much, etc... Try to keep your mind clear in relation to this. Keep your spirit in the driver's seat, and don't go into thoughts that don't support your work, and what you want to accomplish. It is helpful to have a method of releasing or labeling thoughts. A possible method in a SFQ language, might go like this... You finish your practice, and you find yourself thinking that you are depressed, or you question the effectiveness of what you just did, or you think about how hard it is to smile, and that it is just on the surface, etc., etc., etc.,
At the point you 'see' these thoughts, and are not blindly in them, you are in a state of 'awareness'. You could say, you are in spirit(higher self), and observing your mind.
That is a good place to be. At that point, you can say something inside, like, "That thought was not good for me, I send it back to the Universe, back to the Earth." Thoughts, are energy too. Extra energy you don't need in the case of any thoughts, that don't support your self work and intention to self heal, and transform to higher levels. You could see a sun, and send the thoughts into the sun to turn into smoke. You could exhale, and send them out with your breath. However you choose to see it would work. Labelling it, simply means to call it 'thinking', and return to the present moment.
You still make the separation, and keep the mind supporting you, and your higher self is central. Basically, you try to stay in the present moment more. This mindfullness is very important, during your session, and every moment of your day. Your mind can work against what you accomplish in your session.
This is not extra work that you have to do. Mindfullness is part of the practice.
If I was in your position, and I really wanted to do the 'best' I could for myself...
- I would establish a daily routine that stick to, and practice mindfulness, or self awareness, through out my day.
-I would set up my practice on the 'best' level. Myself, I would set a minimum at 2 hrs a day , in literal practice of my qigong. I hesitate to say that, as I don't want you to 'think', that less than this is not 'good'. It is. I am talking about 'best'.
-As I am more than my blockage, I would establish a 'balanced' practice. This may take some time to compose in the best fashion for your goals. In the beginning, a balanced approach, without something intuitive telling me what to do, would maybe look like an hour of active exercise, and an hour of meditation. Best would be an hour and an hour. Other possibilities if that isn't possible, an hour, and two half hrs. or, four half hr sessions. As I write this, I am thinking to myself, how effective it would be to do active exercise for an hour, then sit to meditate for an hour, then make a few other shorter sessions during the day! You can't over do it. You get back, everything you put into it. I had a teacher once, who simply called this 'doing the work'. It became a very positive idea to me. The word work, was not cumbersome, but rather very positive, as it yielded such positive results.
-Level I active is very effective. Within that set, you can be quite creative in what you address. The moving of yin and yang, for instance, is a very effective exercise. So internalized, the way you direct your hands back to yourself, and open up that cylinder of color light. Whether you see yourself as physical body or emotional body, works in that dynamic. You are not limited to where you bring the energy, or light. You are in a state of openess, opening, relaxed, and progressively relaxing. Slow the movement way down, so it barely moves. Expand out with the slowing down. You can do this movement matched with the inhale and exhale, at a faster pace,and that is good, but slowing it way down is better, and it is easy to lapse into emptiness in an active exercise , if you slow it way down.
- Level II active are fine too. It might be harder to experience what I speak of , concerning Level I active, in sword fingers and thunderpalms. Not so, 'from my perspective', with 10,000 hands or cloud hands. Those two, have wonderful aspects to them. 10,000 hands is a 'receiving' type exercise. Like getting blessed from the whole of heaven. Very powerful. Cloud hands, again, if you slow it down, is extremely relaxing and beautiful, in movement and visualization. Again, a powerful self healing state to be in. Sword finger and thunderpalms are good exercises, but if I were not feeling well, it might feel more an effort to focus on the purpose in the exercise, which is to focus. They have the self healing benefits, but not the same hug to them, or immersion into the same level of 'graceful' space. This is 'my' opinion. I don't want to rock anyones boats. I have spent time practicing all the exercises, and see them all as good. In some of them, like 10,000 hands, it is almost like being loved, on top of the focus and movement. This wonderful sensation, is especially nice, if you don't feel well. Same for Active level I, moving of yin and yang. A great form to practice self love in. You very much, open up within your energy field, and direct the energy back to yourself in the way your palms face you and you hold your arms. I could go on and on. Level I active is a great set of qigong exercises. As you move to the next one, you can express great release in the breathing of the universe, and, renew in the joining of yin and yang. Although your focus is lower dan tien, you are not limited to how loving you can express these movements and feelings. You can practice self love and compassion, with yourself, as you do these exercises. It is, perhaps this, that is more to the point than the mechanics of where one focus's, regarding the middle or lower dan tien. You could focus in the middle, but that in itself , is limited, without self love and compassion. This also connects to your smile. You can express compassion for yourself, even in that difficult place you speak of, trying to genuinely smile. Sometimes this opens up a great feeling of sadness, that is very good.
A genuine touching of the heart, that is opening it up and releasing. I don't equate the smile to happiness, as much as self love and compassion. You can love yourself, where ever you find yourself, happy, or depressed. It is a loving act of kindness, to smile, and then turn that smile inward. It is not like trying to hold a false sense of happiness.
- Small universe is a very good meditation. It is a way to practice longevity. It takes very good care of your body. It has great value. Slowing it down too, along with the breath, moves it to a better experience of emptiness. You also are not limited in how you work within the parameters of this meditation. You 'breath' spiritual energy, and universal energy, into these energy points and centers. You do come to the heart in this orbit. You are smiling. What will you breath, into you heart? How will you express yourself within this powerful and simple gesture? Again, the level of self love and compassion , can greatly transform a simple gesture.
Self concentration is good too. It's all good! In self concentration, I would bring in the mindfulness part. Allow thoughts. It's okay to track off. You might want to bring in an aspect of being in the present moment, and centering in higher self(spirit), and simply acknowledging the thoughts as 'thinking', and sensing a self of who you really are. Realizing self within the meditation. Focusing on awareness. Practicing compassion towards self as thoughts arise.
I don't know if the mantra CD is available, that Master Lin uses. It is used in conjunction with a heart centered meditation practice. The sound itself , carries a vibration that is good to bring into your space. The meditation technique involving this CD, might have to come from visiting a retreat at some point. This is, of course, another way to accelerate your self practice.
I hope some of this helps you, and inspires you to keep doing the 'work'. You 'will' move through this if you continue.
love,
gallen

quote:

---

Originally posted by Etoile:
During my practise I have to consciously and continually remove the frown from my face and try to replace it with a smile. I don't know why this seems so difficult.

---

Etoile,

I experience this same problem.
There are days when I cannot put a
smile on my face. What I do
is have the intention of having an
interior smile even when I don't have an
exterior smile. As the practice progresses,
the interior more often than not becomes
exterior. Not always, but more often
than not.

I frequently use this same technique when
I am walking around and I feel myself grumpy
or needing a change of attitude.

Gianni

[This message has been edited by Gianni (edited January 11, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by Gianni (edited January 11, 2005).]

Hello Gallen -
Thank you so much for your encouragement and suggestions. I have read your post many times and have much to learn from it. Last night and this morning I focussed on the "inner smile" and slowed the movements down. This definitely felt different . . . better. You spoke of a balanced practice. I'm not sure that I totally understand this. During the active ex. I focus most of my time on the Moving of yin and yang because this exercise seems the most powerful to me - it feels as if that is where I am to do my "work" - but I sometimes worry that I should not focus so much on just one exercise. Timewise I'm presently spending about an hour and a half on practise each day so I will try to expand on this. I sometimes lay down after lunch for a 20 min. "rest" and this is oddly a time when I drift off and my body seems to conduct its own unstructured "practice" of sorts - I sometimes awaken with a "start" as if there has been some type of movement within or I may awaken and have difficulty moving my hands because they are so heavy. - strange sensations overall. My biggest challenge at this point is to get a decent night's sleep. I sleep fitfully and "roll" from one dream to the next - nothing that makes sense or seems to have much relevance - but my mind must be working all night long. I will make more of an effort to practise "mindfulness" through the day and monitor or 'lablel' my thoughts and then release the excess energy - possibly this will help with what's in my mind at night?
Once again Gallen, thank you so much for your insight and help. I will try to stay the course and trust that something will shift soon or when the time is right.

Gianni - Thank you also for your thoughts. It really does help so much to know that I'm not alone with these problems. I am working with the interior smile and I like your idea of carrying it over to an all day "attitude". I'm going to try that today.

THANK YOU ALL!
Etoile

Etoile,
By balanced practice, I just mean the mix of active and inactive relative to where you are at. You have the experience of intuition in your practice. That's good, and following it develops 'trust' in your(self) inner guidance.
I was going to add another post, stating that you could, focus on one exercise. The moving of yin and yang, would have been one that I would of mentioned, and works very well that way. Add in bouncing on the front end,,5-10 minutes, perhaps.. As you exhale in the bounce(mouth open), empty out from the bottom of your torso, up and out as you exhale. See negative energy and feelings leaving as you also relax your muscles, shoulders, etc. If you bounce, you can tell when you shift to a more relaxed state, and start to feel warmth from the movement. Immerse in the act, don't see it as just a warmup. Also, use harvesting qi, afterwards.
Remember to put in the right messages as you practice. "Completely open, no more depression"
One could look at a type of more advanced practice, that could be just focus on one exercise, and increasing the time. Doing it an hour, or two, or more....! For most people, who have the time, an hour is plenty to try and come up to. Don't feel pressure to go there. The possibility is there, and if you practice at all, you engage with greater possibility.
Take any worry or doubt out of your practice. It undermines the good work.
Staying in the present, will allow you not to reflect too heavily on sleeptime. Approach each night in the present moment.(There isn't even an approach, really, in the present moment) You are at where you are at. Yesterday's experience, or what may come, is not in the present moment. It keeps you more neutral, without expectation or judgement. If energy is moving, if you are in a qigong practice, there can be side effects. I don't know the extent to what is or isn't. Staying in the moment is best, to facilitate healing and transformation. The extent to which mindfulness comes into play will expand as you find yourself more aware from practicing it.
I can hear some heaviness in your words. You are doing really well, you should give yourself credit for doing the work you are doing. Feel good about that. Your cup is 'half full' of qigong! Blessings to you in your practice.
love,
gallen

It is lovely to feel your presence again gallen.

I have some ideas to share, more for Etoile's concerns than 4space's question.

Balance in qigong is not just your meditations, but your whole life. Some of the elements are nutrition, exercise, sleep and of course qigong.

As for moving to another level, recently I had the thought of the pilgrimmage or labrynth experience. The idea that you have to take many steps to get to your destination. Then I thought "No, you don't you can just be there. You don't have to walk you can fly or instantly be there." However, you experience and growth will be different. It's not the sitting on the top of the mountain that causes your growth, it's your experiences along your particular path. Each step is as precious as the last.

As for the issue with fitful sleep. I sometimes have this issue. I can sometimes relate it to not the best supporting dietary habits. Sometimes, it can't be attributed to diet. At these times I return to using sleep as a SFQ practice. I set up and intention of lying down at (look at clock) XX:XX time and waking at 5:00. During my sleep I will merge deeply with the emptiness and sleep soundly throuhout the night, and wake totally open, totally healed, and very energetic and desirous to engage in the day's experience. I sometimes change to intent to work on something specific, but I try to remember to focus on one issue. I try to remember to keep it simple. I then say the password and do one of several meditations. Sometimes small universe, sometimes breathing of the universe, sometimes going into the emptiness. In this sleep meditation, I do not worry if my thoughts wonder from chosen meditation, since that is the nature of sleep. I am trying to use sleep with and intention and qigong to help myself even more.

Lastly, I'll add to the smiling issue, that I find calling on Master Lin to always be helpful. I see him coming to me and his loving smile. How can I not find the love for my current state, when he can so easily find love to share with me.

Also I don't always express the smile the same way. Sometimes it is more physically pronounced than others. However I think gallen as the right of it. The smile is a smile of love, not of happiness. Not that I don't feel happy when feeling love. However, I find it easier to approach love than happiness. I used to have a bunch of posts on what I called the Faces of Love. Different roads that lead to love. Gratitude / appreciation was one road. Caring and Kindness were others. Forgiveness was another. Often just the act of joining with the universe is a path.

Sometimes I spend quite a while before starting a meditation (active or sitting). Spending more time getting the smile or joing with the universe / love, or forming intent for the session, or calling on my master(s) and / or joining. I know that you can go into the emptiness quickly, but I still like to take my time with the password and fully experience it. Sometimes one breath per phrase is not long enough for me.

Sorry, I've started to ramble about the smile idea. The idea that it is a physical link to the experience of love and not happiness seems appropriate to me.

You are perfection.
Iam2

Iam2 and gallen -
Thank you for the further discussion and suggestions. I read the posts many times over to absorb the information and it gives me much encouragement that I'm not really "stuck", just in a phase (although a long one - over 2 months now). Gallen, when you spoke of going through such phases of "treading water", were they this long? Iam2, I agree that a "balanced" life is very important. - I live a very wholesome life except for the sleep issue - but I was once told that healing will be very difficult until the sleep problem is resolved. I usually participate in the Saturday Healing Group and have thought of asking the group for assistance with this problem. Doing the Small Universe before bed used to relax me, but it doesn't seem to be helping lately. I would like to do Small Universe at a slower pace, but I presume that using Master Lin's sounds on the cd are an important part of the meditation? I feel rushed - I too, feel a need to linger and ponder the password and sometimes have trouble keeping up to the pace of the sounds. Would it still be effective to do the meditation without the sounds? Gallen, when you refer to "bouncing" before my Active Ex., is it the same as the final step of the Harvesting of Qi (up on toes and drop down on heals)?

Thank you so much for your help.
Much love
Etoile