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#54924 06/24/06 05:51 PM
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I thought I would start a new thread, since we have been touching on this controversy on the thread about cloud busting.

It would give me great hope for humanity and the future of the earth if we could convince one skeptic that paranormal abilities are in fact real. I don't thing that paranormal abilites are required to advance our current state of civilization to the next level. But if we can change minds about this topic, then we can all change and improve our lives, our minds and and our society.

I don't think I need to nominate a skeptic. We all know one. {I love that this forum expresses many viewpoints and ideas, and that everyone so eloquently expresses them.}

Two years ago I firmly fell in the skeptic camp. As I started to change from the person that I was to the person that I am today, {I am firmly convinced paranormal abilities exist, and the things that are possible defy explanation.} it was a snowball effect. Small questions continued to build to huge revelations.

I have my own experiences which I will share later in this thread, but a great starting point is Victor Zammit www.victorzammit.com a lawyer from Australia which has written a compelling book that has taken several years of research. This book is available for download for free from his web site (in pdf or Word format). His book, "A Lawyer Presents the Case for the Afterlife Irrefutable Objective Evidence" is 226 pages long and according to Mr. Zammit rises to the level that could be presented to prove the case in court.

This book is merely a summary of evidence and resources. The bibliography is 10 pages long and the document is full of internet links for more info and every topic.

I do not agree with all the evidence. But certainly this document would make a open minded person wonder.

Coyote

Joined: Oct 2001
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Dear Coyote,

Thank you for starting this new discussion, which is a continuation of our
earlier discussion. I look forward to the intelligent and open-minded
interchange of ideas in the spirit of mutual growth. Personally, I have
no investment or attachment to my point of view, but I simply base it on
my experiences. Hopefully you will receive what I will share from that
understanding, and I will consider your POV likewise.

As I just posted another message in another thread, I thought I would
reproduce it here, as it is very appropriate. Again, I hope this line of
discussion leads us all to positive growth, and may we be guided not by a
spirit of proving who or what is right or true, but by a spirit of what will best
help us as people living in one of the most exciting eras in history.

Best to you,

HF (a.k.a. your resident skeptic)


Message from the Randi thread:
=======================

Dear Friends,

What bothers me is a prevailing attitude among most of the regulars of
this forum (at least those who are kind enough to write) that somehow
scientists and their kind are closed-minded fools who are out to push some
baseless view of the universe. I wonder where we as science educators have
gone wrong to impart such an impression, and I take this issue very
seriously, even personally, because it is part of my mission in life to
promote what is good and true in life, and somehow, we are being perceived
as doing the opposite.

I know that the anonymity of the Net offers the opportunity for some of us
to express things which we would probably not voice face-to-face, things
which are quite irresponsible, irrational, and downright hurtful to our
progress in thought. I urge us to be careful in our thought-processes, and
if we write something down for the rest of the world to see, may it be
done out of a completely fair, honest, and loving spirit. Let us remember
that there are impressionable young people who might read these words, and
the sentiments which you express not only reveal your true colors but also
more importantly may affect her for the rest of her life.

While I don't have $1 million to offer to anyone, I hope I have come
across in my participation in this forum as a decent, open-minded,
respectable, level-headed individual, and given my training and access to
testing methodologies and facilities, I would be more than happy to
seriously investigate any legitimate "paranormal abilities" which anyone
has. Contrary to what has been voiced in the above responses, these
abilities can easily be tested in a fair, honest, and objective manner
(just think about it, folks!), and I will personally provide intelligent,
mutually acceptable protocols to serious applicants. I can assure you that
I don't have a personal agenda, as some accuse James Randi as having. And
I will be thrilled to be able to prove the objective reality of any
paranormal phenomena, because I know that if I can, I would be hailed as
the next paradigm-shifter of this age. If anything, it's in my decided
best interest to prove these abilities are legitimate, so, please, I beg
you ... help make me (and you) famous and contact me!

Looking forward to it,

HF

P.S. I believe skeptics like James Randi play vital roles to help prevent
citizens of our current age from being deceived by the many cons and scams
out there. For example, my good friend "Anti-Guru" B. Premanand travels
throughout India debunking Siddhi magicians, who would otherwise
shamelessly deceive their fellow human beings and enslave them to
ideologies which do not serve us well anymore. For example, consider what
he has easily uncovered about these unscrupulous cons who use deception to
ensnare and take advantage of the innocent:

http://www.mukto-mona.com/Articles/yuktibaadi.htm

I like how he put it: "I am also happy that my visiting West Bengal has
helped hundreds of youths to start thinking."

I can assure you, he has received much more venom by the Siddhis than
you're spitting at Randi. But without skeptics and debunkers like them,
our civilization would quickly collapse back to the dark ages where
superstitions and irrationality ruled. Whether these are the same tricks
used throughout time by Siddhis is impossible to verify, but I believe
that only now do we enjoy the intellectual freedom to expose those who are
the true deceivers and hurters of humanity. Why bash science's ability to
discern the actuality of a matter? Why stubbornly hold on to untruths
which don't serve us well anymore? It's time to become truly enlightened,
folks, and to become truly free from baseless trances rooted in deception.

OH ... and again, believe me, I would all LOVE to confirm the legitimate
expression of any paranormal ability, so don't hesitate to write me if you
have such an ability or know someone who does. If you're legit, we will
together change the world. On the other hand, if you're a deceptor, I'll
quickly be able to figure you out in an objective, fair manner, as well as
openly post the protocols and results on this forum. Thanks!

Joined: May 2006
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We are all skeptical of those publically claiming to posses paranormal abilities.

In reality, the best way to convince yourself if paranormal abilties are true is to develop them in yourself, not test someone else. It certainly would take a smaller investment in time to develop a test, bring someone else into a lab, run and experiement and analyze the results. This has been done. Many published studies are available. The results are mixed. The big downside of this approach is what would happen if the experiment failed to prove the paranormal results. You would decide that the paranormal does not exist.

If 1000 experiements failed to verify the paranormal (telepathy or remote viewing or whatever...) and 1 experiment proved it, what is the truth. I think many in science would use Occam's razor to say the simpliest explanation is 1000 correct experiements and 1 incorrect experiment.

But perhaps the 1000 experiments were wrong and 1 experiment were correct. How could anyone know this? I propose that the best way is commit oneself to a spiritual path to find the truth. This would require a much larger investment in time, energy, and perhaps money. This was my thinking when I ordered my first meditation cd and started down my path. Then when you know, you KNOW!

One problem with this idea is picking the wrong path, a path that leads nowhere. I think there are many dead ends on the spiritual path. Dead ends in the sense that reach a certain level and top out.

The reality is learning to meditate can and will only have positive affects. And for many people this physical and mental positive effects are all that they desire.

A second problem is that if your goal is to ...(fill in the blank... reach enlightenment, develope paranormal power, connect with God, make the world a better place, help humankind...) what is the quickest path. Would you rather take 10 years to find the answer or 1-2 years.

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Dear Coyote,

Thank you for your well-meaning note, and I accept your invitation in the
best spirit.

Regarding telepathy (and its related cousin of clairvoyance) , I believe the
best studies and meta-analyses performed to date show a much more favorable
outcome than the 1000:1 which you quote, though not quite enough to confer
blanket acceptance of this supposed ability. For nice reviews, consider:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clairvoyance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telepathy

Yes, maybe there is something to telepathy and clairvoyance, but we have a
long way to go to perfecting them. Until then, I as a scientist encourage
those who are compelled to pursue these abilities godspeed, and when you
perfect them, I would absolutely love to hear from you. (Call ME first -
not James Randi!

Regarding whether it's more efficient to test someone claiming
telepathic/clairvoyant abilities vs. developing them myself, well, let me
just humbly acknowledge that I'm sure in my many (misspent?) years
pursuing topics in conventional science, someone else surely must have
(well?) spent those same number of years perfecting their
telepathic/clairvoyant abilities on par with those of Counselor Troi's.
I'm sure they must be out there in droves, if I'm to believe the authors
of some books and web-pages out there! So, having such a wonderful cohort
to deal with already, it would be MUCH more efficient for them to visit
me, convince me of their abilities in a fair and objective manner (it
won't take long at all, I assure you!), and believe me, I will drop
EVERYTHING I'm currently doing in conventional science to devote the rest
of my life to spreading the good news about telepathy/clairvoyance to the
world. As you said, there may be effective and ineffective methods out
there, so what better way to teach me an effective method than by proving
to me from the outset that it works!

Still waiting ...

On a more ethical note, though ... I wonder what would be the purpose of
telepathy and clairvoyance anyway? It is the right of every individual to
hold her own thoughts private. In this age where Big Brother is invading
every crevice of our lives, are now even our thoughts subject to
clairvoyant scrutiny without our consent? Are subliminal messages in TV
ads not enough, and now I must suffer the tyranny of telepathic suggestion?
It seems to me that these abilities are more the wish of someone who wants
power over others (something not very enlightened, I might add), a
privilege which nature has gratefully forbidden. Rather, nature has
graciously given us the right to hold our own thoughts to ourselves, and
share when we feel compelled.

On a practical level, look at the "telepathic" mechanisms which science
has offered us: e-mail, telephones, TV, radio ... things which have
transformed our lives and hopefully have helped make it a better (at least
more colorful) place. Look how it has enabled us to take on this
discussion, even though we are hundreds of miles apart and have never met
in person. We can literally share our thoughts in an instant. THAT is
true power, my friend, and you don't have to believe it in order for it to
be true. What telepaths dream about, science and the technology have
turned into reality. And the extra bonus is that we get to share only
what we want to share, and are able to preserve our more private
thoughts to ourselves.

And, science and technology are also starting to develop "clairvoyant"
methods to truly look into our minds, as well as help link our thoughts
directly to the external world. To name just a couple examples, P300 is
being used to develop more reliable lie-detectors. And EEG-based helmets
are restoring independence to paraplegics by giving them the ability to
interact with the external world. For example, consider:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P300
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain-computer_interface

Regarding meditation ... oh, I'm a BIG fan of meditation. I perform
Tai-Chi and Qigong exercises continuously, and I meditate whenever
possible. I also watch with awe all those awesome things which monks can
do. I consider the benefits of such exercises scientifically verifiable,
and numerous scientific studies vouch for their efficacy. Even without
appealing to anything mystical, Qi-based and meditation exercises are at
the very least deeply relaxing, centering, and enhances mental
concentration and imagination, thus they have direct, measurable
physiological effects, which are generally positive.

We still have a lot to discover about human potential and the power of
belief, but we would also be wise to acknowledge our inherent
limitations. For example, remember the Boxer Rebellion in China? How
much more powerful Qi-Masters can you ask for than a dedicated army of
Shaolin and other monks whose highest purposes in life are to meditate, develop
Qi, and do good? They firmly believed their Qi protected them from the
bullets and swords of the "foreign invaders" of China. What more noble a
task can Qi-energy be used for than to defend one's country, families, and way
of life! YET ... they were ruthlessly slaughtered by bullets and swords,
and China lost a whole generation of Qi-Masters in one day. That was the
sad result of their firm belief in Qi. Must this happen again (in smaller
ways) to root us back firmly into reality?

(See the following for a history refresher:)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Rebellion

I for one believe in human potential, oh yes! But may we be guided by a
rational spirit, without the need to resort to irrational notions.

I wish you the very best in your journey, and look forward to our continued
correspondence.

HF

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I am but a humble student so my attempts to pass along knowledge may not be very convincing. Although this forum is helping me refine my teaching skills as I attempt to express things.

I have been told a story by the teacher of my spiritual teacher (TT from now on). He met a researcher with a doctorate in a coffee shop. The researcher told TT that he would follow him for the rest of the his life if TT could prove to him the existence of God that afternoon. That researcher now does research and developement for TT. (I don't know if the researcher still has his day job).

I also don't know what TT did to convince him. Imagine what power that would be to convince a person previously unkown to you in one afternoon that beyond any doubt, God exists.

The purpose of telepathy: learning to speak the language of God.
The purpose of past life regression: convince your self that you are more than you think you are & learn not to fear death (and by extension life).
The purpose of remote viewing and astral travel: learn to navigate when you are not in your physical body (such as after you pass on).
The purpose of learning to surrender: learning to not allow fear to affect your actions.
The purpose of learning energy defense: maintaining enough energy to practice the above techniques & preventing others energy from "bringing you down".
The pupose of weather manipulation: learning to expand the meditation states of mind to rest of your awake periods.
The purpose of direct manifestation: put your life in order so you can pursue your spirituality.
The purpose of lucid dreams and dream analysis: finding deep rooted problems in your consciousness that need to be repaired so you can progress.

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I spent time this afternoon reviewing my notebooks from the last 1.5 years where I write down my experiences. The only skill I have been able to do reliably, that I could demonstrate to others is cloud bursting (we have talked about this extensively in another thread). I have not yet tried to demonstrate this skill for anyone besides my wife. A difficultly in trying to demonstrate this to someone else, is that the weather doesn't always cooperate. The best conditions is 20-50% cloud cover with relatively low clouds, the puffy white ones.

Coyote

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The biggest problem with modern day skeptics like Randi is that they are "professional skeptics" and have no interest in find ing the real deal. Their claim to fame is "debunking". They do whatever is necessary (including offering unclaimable prizes) to show the world that nothing exists outside of what we think we already know.

One has to wonder why you never had people debunking the existence of air or emotion or a hundred other things we take for granted yet have little if any objective proof of. Why not debunk ethics as a figment of people's imagination?

Steve Pavlina wrote a good article dealing with the skeptic's way of looking at things. I repost it here.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would your experience of shared objective reality continue to exist if you stopped believing in it? What would happen if you started to suspect, wonder, and maybe even believe that reality is at least partially created by your own thoughts?

What is this non-scientific poppycock I’m spouting? Let’s address the “scientific” objections first then, shall we?

The Pseudoscience of Science

If science aims to study reality, then does the Scientific Method of observation, hypothesis, and validation allow us to study reality accurately?

Unfortunately, no. The scientific method presupposes the existence of an objective reality, so that’s what it studies. Objective reality is a type of reality that exists and perpetuates itself independent of the observer. The observer and the observed must remain separate, or the experimental data would be corrupted. This is why there are such structured processes for conducting scientific experiments, including peer review. The idea is to be as accurate as possible while minimizing observer bias. Of course, politics plays a significant role in practical science, especially where huge profits are concerned, but those problems don’t invalidate the method itself.

I suggest that nothing can take the place of the Scientific Method in the area in which it works. And the area in which it works is objective reality.

So if we want to use the Scientific Method and all its wonderful processes, we have to be working with objective reality. That’s its domain.

But is objective reality an accurate model of real reality?

Many people believe so. I’m not one of them.

I conceive reality as an elegant combination of both objective and subjective elements. This is how it appears from the perspective of my human body and mind. But from the perspective of consciousness itself, I think reality is entirely subjective, where the subjective observer in this case is consciousness/awareness itself, not individual human beings. But that’s getting a bit into nonduality (a belief I happen to have), and we don’t have to stretch quite that far to explore this particular topic….

You may have been been taught to believe that objective reality is the reality in which you exist. How very pragmatic. But this is just a teaching — it isn’t rooted in reality itself. It’s rooted in that increasingly shaky assumption that objective reality is real.

I’m not suggesting that objective reality doesn’t exist per se. However, I am suggesting that there are elements to reality which are created by your own thoughts. Why should you care? Because if you can learn to access the subjective parts of reality, you can gain much greater control over your experience of life and do some really interesting things.

This broader view of reality doesn’t contradict objective reality — it emcompasses it.

Let me ’splain….

Your Self-Created Reality

What if there are parts of reality which are created by your own thoughts?

Put your skepticism on hold for just a minute — you can return to it when you’re done reading if you like — and follow this line of thought with me.

Just imagine for a moment that you’re actually living in a reality that’s created by your own thoughts. So all the stuff you were taught to believe isn’t actually real, but you’ve been conditioned to believe it’s real, so by your own thoughts, beliefs, and expectations you make it so. Your experiene of reality is merely a reflection of what you think you know. Are you with me?

Imagine you’re like a god whose thoughts manifest in physical form. Imagine for a moment that this is the reality in which you actually exist.

Now what would happen if this was the actual reality you lived in, and then you adopted the belief in objective reality (and nothing beyond objective reality)? You’d create it, right? Beliefs are thoughts. So your experience of reality would be limited to the scope of objective reality? You might actually be living in a far more expansive, thought-created reality, but you’d be using your own thought power to create a reality in which your thoughts didn’t appear to have such power.

You’d be like a god using his/her powers to turn those powers off by willing them out of existence.

You Impotent God, You

So if that’s true, then why can’t you seem to access your god powers right now? Why can’t you move objects with your mind, for example?

Since your belief in objective reality would be fundamental to your experience of reality, you couldn’t simply override it without first dumping that belief. Otherwise, you’d be sending out contradictory thoughts, and they’d simply negate each other. So you couldn’t will yourself to do magic without first letting go of your belief in objective reality. You can’t access your god powers until you first turn them back on by remembering and re-embracing that you’re a god. And that would mean letting go of an awful lot that you’ve become very attached to throughout your human life. Scary to even think about that, right?

But guess what… even as you foist these unnecessary limitations on yourself, your power is still there, lying dormant, waiting for you to begin using it again.

However, it’s impossible for you to find any evidence of this power in your external world as long as you continue using it to reinforce the illusion of objective reality. So please don’t go whining that science cannot prove any of this. You’re absolutely right. I agree with you. You can’t prove the existence of non-objective reality from within objective reality. That’s a big limitation of the Scientific Method.

You can’t manifest what’s outside your thought bubble from within the thought bubble. Wet cannot experience dry.

Think about what happens in science. Scientists agree to adopt a shared belief system. They’re taught the same beliefs about reality. They buy into those beliefs and accept them as real. Scientists learn from other scientists. But are they learning about reality itself, or are they simply learning the belief structure of objective reality? It’s the latter of course. They learn to become masters of objective reality because that’s where they invest their thought energy, but that isn’t the same as understanding real reality. Objective reality is just one of many thought-created subdomains of real reality, one in which the Scientific Method reigns supreme.

So if reality is actually thought-created, then you’d say that scientists are using their thoughts to create their version of objective reality. Scientists create science. And to the degree you believe in this reality as well, you’re using your own thought power to manifest it for you. You’ll then experience all the benefits and limitations that are encapsulated within that belief structure. Some of your experiences will be enhanced (those that align with the logic of science), while other experiences will never come into your reality (those that you believe to be scientifically impossible).

As long as you subscribe to the belief in objective reality, that will be your experience of life. No one will be able to convince you otherwise, including me. The more firmly you believe in objective reality, the more strongly you create it.

Again, there’s no way I can prove to you that you’re living in a thought bubble while you still remain in that bubble. I cannot prove to you that your thought bubble is a self-created illusion from within the context of that illusion. Within your personal experience of reality, your thoughts have greater power than mine. I cannot shove new experiences into your experience of objective reality that aren’t already permitted within your belief structure.

The Unclaimable $1 Million Pavlina Prize

Have you heard of the JREF prize? It’s a prize of $1 million to anyone who can objectively prove something of a paranormal or supernatural nature, as long as you can find a way to do so within the scope of the normal and the natural. The prize is a sham though because it’s unclaimable. It requires you to prove the existence of wet while only being allowed to do so within the scope of dry. You can’t prove a subjective experience within the context of objective reality. Very cute. You could just as easily propose the exact opposite challenge, and that prize would be equally unclaimable. It makes for good publicity though.

So here’s my own unclaimable sham prize, which I’ll call the Pavlina Prize. I’ll pay $1 million cash to anyone who can prove to me within the context of my own consciousness that my collective conscious and subconscious thoughts and beliefs are NOT creating my reality. Just step into my consciousness and provide the proof to my satisfaction. I’m a reasonably intelligent guy with a decent IQ (qualified for Mensa), so that shouldn’t be too tough.

Of course, my challenge might be slightly less impressive than the JREF prize because I don’t happen to have $1 million yet. So until then I’ll just offer to buy you lunch at a nice restaurant on the Las Vegas Strip. And if you want to collect the prize, you’ll need to find a way of proving it to me without killing me; otherwise how am I going to pay you? And if you merely maim me in the process, then I’m not paying for dessert.

While I can’t prove I’m correct within the scope of your reality, you can’t prove I’m wrong within the scope of mine. However, I can prove to my satisfaction that your objective reality is a false one within the scope of my reality. And you can easily convince yourself that I’m just spouting nonsense from within the scope of your belief in objective reality. But what does that do for us? We’d just be proving our own beliefs within the context of those beliefs.

Overlapping Subjective Realities

To the degree our realities overlap, you can interact with me. But if our beliefs stretch too far apart, then we can no longer resonate with each other, and we will essentially disappear from each others’ realities. From the perspective of your objective reality, what you would experience is that I’d somehow fall out of your life. You’d cease to have any further contact with me. You might actively kick me out of your life after dismissing me as a nut or something, but more likely my role in your life would simply fade, and you’d eventually forget I ever existed. You’ll continue on with your existence, attracting people who most strongly resonate with your belief in objective reality, continuing to reinforce your existing belief structure and giving you no reason to doubt it.

But that would be your experience of reality, not mine. In my experience of reality, as our beliefs stretched further and further apart, you’d also drop off my radar because I’d simply stop perceiving you. I would be resonating more and more with people who believe in a thought-created reality, and we’ll do some really interesting things together which are congruent with our beliefs but not with yours.

You won’t allow into your reality anything you believe is impossible. Your belief in what is impossible (or at least highly improbable) is what makes it impossible. So from my perspective you’re simply using your thought power to prevent such “impossible” things from existing for you.

Your experience of reality is largely dictated by your belief structure. Once you begin to challenge those beliefs and expand them, your experience of reality will expand. You will begin to do things which you previously thought impossible because you started willing them to be possible.

But you see, neither of us is actually right or wrong. My self-created reality is no more real or unreal than yours. However, my experience of reality is probably a lot less limiting than yours. Keep in mind that what you perceive to be my experience of reality is not the same as my actual experience of reality. Who you believe I am is not who I am. All you perceive is a projection of the real me onto your current belief structure to the degree to which my beliefs resonate with yours. If our beliefs overlap a lot, I’ll probably be a big part of your life, and the more our beliefs overlap, the bigger a role I’ll play in your life. If our beliefs overlap very little, then I’ll play only a marginal and insignificant role in your life, and nothing I write or do will have much impact on you, including this.

Popping the Thought Bubble

How did I come to believe that reality is thought-created? This line of thinking began for me a few years ago when I focused my thoughts on this primary intention for several months:

I perceive reality accurately.

That intention seemed to be a key that unlocked this weird door into the possibility of subjective reality. Don’t ask me why — I haven’t a clue. But leading up to that intention came several years worth of experiences of intentionally shifting my beliefs and then seeing corresponding shifts in my experience of reality. I still had to wonder if I was just being a self-fulfilling prophecy though. But then I had some sort of awakening where I considered that being a self-fulfilling prophecy might be more reality than delusion. And from that point on, my constant experience of reality has been one of deep fascination and wonder. Every day I can see my own thought reflections coming back to me, and this effect seems to grow stronger with each passing year. Now I actively play with them, attempt to create synchronicities, try to push through limiting beliefs.

The belief in objective reality is very compelling. It’s hard to loosen the mental grip on it, but a loosening must occur in order to experience far less limiting parts of reality. Fear is the main thing that keeps us from exploring different belief systems. In the field of all belief structures, the belief in objective reality is like a magnetic pit that’s hard to escape. Once you succumb to this belief system, you fall into a self-reinforcing delusion because part of this belief system requires that you begin using your power against itself. You fall into the trap of using your power to remain powerless. That’s a tough nut to crack, which is one reason that escaping (to enlightenment or otherwise) tends to happen gradually. On this path to higher awareness, you’ll most likely experience a series of smaller quantum leaps as you learn to regain your power step by step.

You don’t have to dive right in and confront your greatest fear. That would be too much for you. You’ve grown so used to using your power to negate itself that it’s very unlikely you have the will to make big, sweeping changes. So start around the edges of objective reality and try pushing your perceived boundaries back a little, very gently at first. Start by challenging some of your assumptions, beginning with those that seem the weakest. Begin to wonder that your assumptions may in fact be self-created limitations rather than actual properties of reality. Relax yourself away from stubborness, and begin to shift towards curiosity.

The path for me included hundreds of increasingly expansive thoughts and experiences spread over a period of many years. But here’s a represenative sample: Do I really need a job? Let’s try believing that’s not true. Hmmm… that worked. I haven’t had a job in over 13 years and still make a decent living. Do I really need to trade my time for money? Let’s allow the possibility that this is no longer necessary, so we can just make money passively while putting the bulk of our time into more interesting things. That worked. Time wealth is really nice. How about diet? Can we shift to a healthier diet that doesn’t require torturing animals and even enjoy the food more? Yep. Can we earn six figures a year? Yep. Can we do a marathon? Yes. How about fixing these emotions now… can we reach the point of feeling really, really good all the time? Amazing how well that worked. Inner peace is really nice… should have done that one years ago. How about developing better intuition? Yep, works great now. Buy a house? That was fast. What’s next? How about sleep? Can we stop sleeping if we want to and just remain perpetually conscious? Weird… this thing called polyphasic sleep just manifested in our reality. Let’s try it… it worked. Now we sleep only in 20-minute naps 6-7 times per day… more like taking short rest breaks than ever going to bed. Something damn strange is going on… are my beliefs creating this reality? Time to push the boundaries a bit more. Let’s try becoming a millionaire. In fact, let’s turn it into a group project and try to make other people millionaires too. And if that works, what’s next?

This manner of living takes some getting used to, but the upside is that it’s an empowering, fascinating, and immensely pleasurable way to live. Suffering and pain are nearly nonexistent for me now because I’ve learned to stop creating them. Just lots and lots of curiosity and wonder. I still can’t get over just how astonishing this whole notion of subjective reality is. It conflicts with everything I was taught growing up, but then I believed in objective reality as a child, so perhaps I was simply manifesting what I expected back then.

How far can we push it?

That’s what I’m most interested in finding out. How far can I push my beliefs, and to what degree will I continue to see evidence that they are indeed creating my reality?

Manifesting Superpowers

Why not superpowers? Telekinesis. Pyrokinesis. Chocokinesis (the spontaneous manifestation of chocolate). That sort of thing. After all, if reality is thought-created, then why not simply direct one’s thoughts to experience that too? Why stop at anything less?

Sure, that would be a logical extension of these experiments. And if they keep going the way they’ve been going, that’s what they’ll eventually progress to. I’ve already experienced a lot of stuff that would be considered supernatural in nature, and my wife has too. Some of these were shared experiences, strong enough to convince us that something is definitely going on here. But they also appeared random and uncontrollable.

So naturally I tried to manifest things like telekinesis, seeing if I could condition myself to believe I could move an object with my mind and then willing it to happen. After putting quite a number of hours into this with a variety of different objects, so far the object has always stubbornly refused to move. So I took a step back and asked the universe to explain why I can’t simply manifest this kind of thing right now. If you’re a regular reader, you may recall that in a previous post, the answer I got back was a series of references to the 80s TV show The Greatest American Hero. As I mentioned in that post, this was a show about a superhero who derived his powers from a supersuit, but he lost the instruction manual, so he had to figure out how to use the powers by trial and error.

So I’ll certainly continue experimenting along these lines, but apparently I still have a lot to learn before I can manifest something like this. So in the meantime, I’ll just keep pushing back the edges as my belief structure evolves. Even things that seem miraculous may eventually succumb to that approach. But whether I succeed or fail, it’s a lot of fun to make the attempt.

Keep in mind that your thought-created experience of reality isn’t necessarily the same as mine. So if you believe things like manifesting superpowers are impossible, you’ll never experience them. You’ll never see them except to the degree they can be accomplished within your current belief structure. So while people might someday be able to fly within your belief system, it will have to manifest in accordance with your beliefs. If you believe in objective reality as the one true reality, then you might have to endure the unfolding of the “scientific” process of the discovery of anti-gravity technology in order for human beings to fly. You won’t see people manifesting powers out of pure thought unless and until you believe it’s possible to do so. Your belief structure would probably have to change radically to become open to this.

So if someone were to manifest superpowers through pure thought power, you’ll never see them unless you happen to already believe it’s possible. But most people don’t believe it’s possible, so they’ll never see it. Their reality cannot resonate with the reality of people who can do these things because there isn’t enough overlap in belief structure.

If you go looking outside yourself for proof of anything, you’ll simply find proof of your own beliefs. That isn’t a bad thing per se. By exploring your thought bubble (i.e. your experience of reality) more deeply, you’ll at least come to understand your thoughts better. You might even find enough clues to make you wonder if you are indeed creating your reality via your thoughts.

Those who subscribe to a belief in objective reality will see advances in human potential occurring fairly gradually because that’s how objective reality works. Superhuman breakthroughs don’t happen within that context. In order to witness superhuman breakthroughs as a part of your daily existence, you have to shift your beliefs to create a different thought bubble where those types of things are permitted to occur.

Shifting Humanity’s Collective Belief Structure

What I’m really curious about is what would happen if most of the people on earth experienced a shift in their belief systems to allow such things as the manifestation of superpowers. I can already manifest superpowers in my private reality (i.e. lucid dreaming), as can many other people who’ve mastered lucid dreaming, but I think it would be more fun to manifest them in our shared reality too.

However, in order to make this possible, we’ll have to shift the belief structure of millions, if not billions, of people. That’s going to take some doing, although it appears there are a number of people like me who are interested in pursuing this. It has some obvious benefits like ending all suffering on earth. That’s one of the reasons I’ve been working to build more and more traffic to this web site — it becomes a vehicle for us to collectively explore alternative belief structures. This web site is already reaching nearly half a million people per month, so we’re gradually getting there.

The Million Dollar Experiment is our first group experiment along these lines. Those who choose to participate are coming together to congruently focus their thoughts to change external reality for the highest good of all.

What would happen if we could get a billion people together to all focus on manifesting a single positive intention? I have no idea. But I really want to find out. And since I have such an insatiable curiousity about it, I’m comfortable investing a few more decades into it. It sure beats having a regular job and spending my whole life selling widgets.

So technically there is a way to win the JREF prize. And that is to first shift our thought-created shared reality to allow for the possibility of the paranormal to manifest in a socially demonstrable way. The problem right now is that our socially incongruent beliefs only allow such phenomena to manifest for those whose already believe in it. But by the time that happens, people will no longer need objective proof of what they already know. You don’t need objective proof when you’re the one creating what you’re seeking to prove.

I’m seeing more and more indications that this thought-created model of reality is probably pretty close to how reality actually works. But I have a lot more trial and error hoops to go through. It would be nice if I could find that darn instruction manual someday.

Who Left the Door Open and Let Me Into Your Reality?

If you happen to believe in objective reality, then how is it possible that you’re perceiving me telling you all this other weird stuff about thought-created reality?

Because you’ve already started to doubt your experience of objective reality. Before you ever encountered me within your external environment, you were already beginning to open yourself up to new thoughts and ideas, weren’t you? I’m simply the manifestation of things you were beginning to suspect. You’re the one who manifested me. Your own thoughts brought me into your environment. Should you choose to continue down this path, my role in your life will expand, and/or other new resources will continue to appear for you. You’ll probably experience me and other people writing more and more about things you’ve been wondering about all along, if you haven’t already found this to be true for you.

Do you tell yourself that it’s just a strange coincidence when I happen to write about something you were just thinking about? Or are you beginning to realize that you’re the one creating all of this with your own thoughts?

You’re always free to close the door on these happenings and return to the illusory safety and security of your belief in objective reality. No hard feelings if that’s what you wish to create for yourself. However, you’ll probably find that this web site no longer resonates with you on that level of existence. On the other hand, if you find yourself becoming more and more open to seeing how your thoughts are creating your reality and you want to explore that potential to see if we can’t collectively manifest bigger and bigger positive changes, you’ve come to the right place.

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 347
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 347
You are spot-on about the Amusing Randi. One of his favorite tricks is to keep moving the bar, but he will resort to almost anything to "prove" someone or something is a hoax. We all know that the observer does influence the experiment--but this particular "observer" does it deliberately. I have known people who tried for the Randi money, and it was more brutal than most would imagine.

One field that has produced some real evidence is astrology. Michel Gauquelin did what for that time (when computers took up whole rooms to do what a pc will do today) was a tremendous research feat: to see if astrology had any validity. Actually, his goal was to disprove it, because he felt that it was pure quackery. However, the data proved him wrong. There was definite evidence of its validity--evidence which is ignored to this day by both the scientific community and many astrologers.

Another good researcher all but ruined his career: as an astronomer, Percy Seymour was reluctant to give any credit to something like astrology, but as an open-minded scientist (something which is distinctly rare in this society), he could not ignore the evidence, and so wrote "Astrology: The Evidence of Science."

Any time a scientist begins to change the landscape of a deeply entrenched belief, even with a lot of evidence, he or she will face incredible resistance from those who are invested in the current belief sets. We're seeing lots of breakthrough discoveries in our times, many of which are agreeing almost entirely with what spiritual writings and teachings have said for many thousands of years. However, we're also seeing the same ol' same ol' from the hard-to-move "scientific" community--but mind you, the scientists making these breakthroughs did arise from that same community, so I think there is hope.

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 327
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 327
Dear Lord_Shandor,

Thank you for your continued participation in our discussion. I also
appreciated the article by Steve Pavlina about skeptics which you
graciously copied for our convenience. (I have a hunch, though, that if
it's copyrighted, a link to it would be more appropriate.)

A few comments:

1. I'm not following you regarding why we need to "debunk" things like
air, emotions, and ethics. To debunk means to objectively demonstrate
that something which is tauted as real is actually not. Air, emotions,
and ethics are very real. The objective study of air is part of the
science of chemistry; the objective study of emotions is part of the
science of psychology; and the objective study of ethics is part of the
science of sociology.

2. Regarding Mr. Pavlina's comments:

A. His sentiments about science and scientists shows me that he has
never actively worked in the scientific endeavor or even visited a science
laboratory to see how we work. I encourage him to do so, before
continuing to spread disinformation about who we are and what we do.
(Please read my last message to you in the cloud-busting thread.)

B. I'm glad that his world-view works for him, and if his goal is to
help liberate people from their limiting beliefs, wow, I think that's
wonderful, and I wish there were more people like him. More power to him!

C. Why do we need to be at cross purposes here? Those of us who
prefer to work in "objective reality," as he terms it, find great
satisfaction, enjoyment, liberation, motivation, and challenge in what we
do. And we have produced some amazing things to show for it, the very
things that Mr. Pavlina is using to conveying his ideas. It is his
prerogative to reject our reality and create his own, but as he says, he
is going to fade further and further away from our reality, and soon we
will not be in contact anymore. If that makes him happy, okay, fine.
Let him have his reality. In my reality, there are billions of people who
are actually struggling through life in more "objective" ways, and my
purpose is to help them in this particular reality.

D. Regarding the JREF prize vs. the Pavlina Prize. Hmm ... I'm
astonished someone like Mr. Pavlina, who claims to have an IQ which
qualifies to be in MENSA, could come up with such a convoluted argument.
In effect, his argument boils down to: "You can't prove me wrong, because
I believe I'm right." On what basis is an intelligent, rational person
suppose to proceed in a constructive manner, then? Look, if in his
reality, he claims to possess supernatural/paranormal powers, fine - all
the best to him. But what good does that do for me or for the rest of
humanity? Let him wield his wonderful powers in his fantasy-reality,
shared or solitary, and allow us to work in "objective reality" where we
can actually help people in more "objective" ways.

I look forward to our continued discussion,

HF

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 327
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 327

Dear Jeanne,

Thanks for writing, and I appreciate your thoughts. A few thoughts of
mine in response to yours:

1. I'm sorry to hear about your friends bad experiences with James Randi.
Please give them my contact information, and I promise I will be more
fair. Unfortunately, I don't have $1 million to offer them, but it will
definitely serve the higher purpose of "convincing a skeptic."

2. Thank you for passing along the information regarding Percy Seymour.
When I have time, I will consider what he has to say in more detail before
offering my response. (So much to do, so little time!) Thank you for
regarding scientists as humans who are capable of learning and growing.
Most of us just want the best for humanity, and it pains us to see how
people take advantage of others via deception, which can easily be
uncovered with a little objective thought and experimentation. When we
try to use our brains and tools to expose these frauds or to simply
consider a matter very carefully, we are attacked for being self-serving,
dogmatic, and the enemies of humanity. What more can I say? I can only
try to live conscientiously and consistently. Thank you for giving me the
freedom to do so.

3. Regarding astrology ... pick up three newspapers (or visit three
on-line astrology sites) on any given day and compare what the horoscopes
say. How can we conduct an intelligent examination of whether astrology
is "valid" or not when astrologists do not speak in one voice? Which one
am I suppose to believe? The one that appeals to me the most? Which
astrologer is the "real" one that I should listen to? On what basis
should I make that judgment? Until astrology gets its own house in order,
there are many other topics and issues I can study which has a much more
firm (and believable) foundation. I respect those like Dr. Seymour who
propose there might be some physical mechanism which connects human beings
to the rest of the universe. But if there is, the "true astrology" will
arise from the meticulous scientific methods of astronomy and
astrophysics, and it will definitely speak in one voice.

Also, I wonder what the meta-message in astrology is ... that my life and
actions are dictated by external forces, and I have no power to control my
own destiny? Seems very binding to me. Christ said, "The truth shall set
you free." Science frees me from a whole host of ancient superstitions
and ideologies which bind. While I wouldn't go so far as equating science
to truth, I do believe it can show that some notions are not-so-true,
notions which don't serve us very well anymore.

Best,

HF

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