Forums IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ Beyond Human Free will vs. Pre-determination

In the 17th and 18th centuries, an important question for religion, philosophy, science, and alchemy was the question of whether or not an individual has free will or is the future pre-determined. This is no longer talked about much but it should be. Some Christians believe the current events in the middle East are leading to fufill God's plan of the rapture and Armegeddon.

Another way to look at this questions, is to ask if it possible for a psychic to predict the future. And if the answer is yes, how is it possible to predict the future? If the future can be predicted, how can it be changed? Can a person manifest a different future by projecting energy at a pivotal event in their future?

Blimey Steve,

Can't you give us some nice easy subject to debate?
I 'll probably be shot down in flames but my view is:-

Of course you have free will . The course of your life is determined by the choices you make and my belief is that you always have a choice. Nothing is set in stone.
In any circumstance you choose between fear and love both in their widest
meanings.
First you have to understand that you have the power of choice and you do that by observing your own mind and feelings. The choice we make Now is what may influence our future and ------ we can always change our mind.

The second part of your question requires a book to answer so I'm not even going to go there!

Love and light,
Faune

Is this one of those trick "can we change reality" questions?

If I were to compare this question to being on the ocean in two instances.

One being castaway, floating on a log and having to endure every whim of the sea and sky with no control whatsoever. Then I would probably go with the fate thing and my future being pre-determined. Likely, food for shark. Although it has been proven that a positive attitude of truely wanting to survive and consciously looking for the next step in your rescue has greatly increased your chances.

If on the other had I were at sea in a motor or sailing craft where speed and direction were under my control. Then in this case I would say that free will is much more likely to have the upper hand.

You could argue both ways but it really boils down to the resources at hand and your own attitude towards the situation you find yourself in.

If you take the middle east and go with the predetermined thing, you just give up and ride out the train wreck. If you have half a brain and want to survive then you change course or hit the brakes.

I think anyone can predict the future, if all conditions remain the same then to come to some conclusion isn't such a far reach.

What I don't appreciate about the Predictions or prophecies is that they usually are an ultimatum with no change or correction allowed. Usually when people learn something they make corrections. Using freewill, disasters can be avoided because people are consciously making a difference through technology, or personal action, or whatever.

A great disaster I believe that falls in the predetermined fate thing is Hurricane Katrina with with plenty of inaction by everyone. The World Trade Center is another. Great leadership there guys (not).

Jeff

We know that we have made decisions in the past. Looking back on them, we cannot change having made those decisions, yet we know that we have made them, that we have engaged in a thinking process which led to a decision being made. Does the fact that we cannot change the decisions we have made mean that we do not have free will?

No, of course it doesn't.

Now, flip that, and apply it to the future. If you have prior knowledge of a decision you will make, then most likely that prior knowledge will be part of that decision, and you will make it. Does that mean the decision is inevitable? Maybe. Does that mean it wasn't a decision? No. You simply know what you will use your free will to decide.

This situation is also only problematic given a linear definition of time. If time is not linear, 2 dimensional, but in fact non-linear and 3 (or more) dimensional, then we must figure that in a sense all of time is simultaneous and the problem of free will is only a problem from a certain, limited point of view.

Alan Watts gave an example of a snake in regard to time and causality. The illustration probably predates him. Anyway, if you can only view the world through a small, stationary slit, and you see a snake pass by, first you see the tip of its head, then its head, sliver by sliver, and its body, and finally its tail. If it turns around and crosses again, you see the same thing, only by the other direction.

With this limited view, you may come to think that the head predates and causes the body and tail, and the body and tail are necessary consequences of the head. But, this is nonsense, because we know the head no more causes the tail than the tail causes the head. The snake is a complete, simultaneous entity.

If we view time and causation in this way, we may see it from another perspective, that time, perhaps is actually 3 dimensional and that the past causes the present and future no more than the future causes the present and past. But, rather, time is like a snake existing all at once, and it is only our perspective that makes it appear linear.

That being said, I think neuroscience is going to trump philosophy and religion with regard this and many other questions we have about the nature of free will, consciousness, and other issues.

What a synchronicity! On tonight's Futurama on Adult Swim, Bender has a conversation with a God-like celestial computer.

Bender:
"So you pretty much know everything right?"

God:
"Yes, I suppose I do."

Bender:
"So you know everything I'm going to do before I do it?"

God:
"Yes."

Bender:
"But what if I do something different?"

God:
"Well, I don't know that then."