Forums IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ Spring Forest Qigong Less sleep and weight lifting effects

Hi All,

I'm just starting out with Qigong and am curious about other people's experience on a couple of things.

My apologies if there are already posts on these.

1/ In the CDs Master Lin mentions that you will not need as much sleep. Has anyone felt this affect and to what extent?

2/ I am actively weight training and jogging (twice a week of each), just wondering if anyone has seen any improvement in their weight or cardio training after starting Qigong?

Cheers
Pete

Pete, I normally make a good effort to get 8 hours of sleep a night. About 5 months after I started SFQ I was doing doing 2 to 4 hours of meditations a day. At the time I noticed it wasn't difficult to get out of bed at 5 am. In fact I started waking up earlier and earlier. It became a little annoying when I was waking at 4 am. I was telling myself go back to sleep. I eventually realized I was wide awake and fully refreshed. Rather than starting meditations at 4 am, I started going to bed later. Of course those later nights started be filled with an hour of Moon meditations. I was at the point that I was fully refreshed after 4 to 5 hours of sleep. Of course if you're doing 4 hours of meditation you're not freeing time up for other things. On the otherside of that, is you're getting a lot of meditation at no net cost of time.

As for exercise, I found that I was using all of my prime exercising time for meditations. Which may be why I don't meditate as much as I have in the past. So I don't have any serious exercising and meditating experiences to relate.


I'm working on trying new approaches to directing my energy. For a while I felt I was sending my energy in many directions and making slow progress. It's probably poor of me to think this, but I wanted faster progress. I'm trying a new approach to achieving my objectives. I still have all the elements in my life, as before, but now I'm deliberately focussing on a progressive plan of prioritize goals. It changes my balance but and some things have suffered. It is similar to approaches by many successful people, and I expect it to help me achieve my goals more quickly. I'm still working with the approach, because I don't want back sliding in any important areas, but is a flaw of those who achieve empty success.

Okay too much sharing.

Consider your goals, and remembers SFQ is not the only qigong system. For a time another may be more appropriate for you. I not saying leave SFQ, I'm just saying be conscious of your choices.



You are perfection,
Iam2

I sleep around 6 hours. (I only do an hour meditation) and 40 mins of active excersise.

I have noticed many differences in physical endurance, I can run much farther (if you control your breathing right you can run vast distances before even getting tired)

Somewhere it is said not to combine other QiGong methods with Spring Forest QiGong. However, I *think* this may because other QiGongs are "more complicated". I actually have been learning from Earl Montague's long before I started Spring Forest.

I can easily see why the "3 Circle Zen" position is not in the Spring Forest system, even though it is one very common QiGong position. (this is one of the very few QiGong positions that if you stand wrong you will get "averse cyclic Qi" and give yourself brain damage -- it has to do with people putting all their weight on the KD1* pressure point when the toes are curled, which is VERY BAD for you. Weight should always be on the heels!)

*(Kidney 1 -- aka the "Bubbling Well -point" or "Bubbling Spring")

My excersis consists of:
Basic QiGong--
Wu Chi 5 mins
3 Circle Zen 5 mins

Spring Forest--
(I used to do the Level 1 excersises here)

Sword Fingers 5 mins
Thunder Palm 5 mins
10,000 Hands 5 mins
Cloud Hands 5 mins

**I only started doing these recently...
Zhan Zhuang QiGong-- ("Fa Jing" is NOT healing techniques, but they help develop your energy centers/visualization, which of course helps your healing power! and... if you have to...)
Water Elemental Punch 30 reps
Metal Elemental Chop 30 reps
Fire Elemental Technique 30 reps

(haven't started the Wood or Earth elements yet)

...after the elemental techniques, I go back into Wu Chi for another 5 minutes. Then I do the closing channels stuff so the 35-40 minutes worth of energy doesn't just run out of the body, of course.

So far, this has been working very well for me, without any problems. When I first started Basic QiGong the "Wu Chi" stance took 15 minutes to remove the blockages in the body, now it takes less than a minute or two(sometimes 3 or 4 depending on what I have been doing that day). I am getting to the point where I can actually feel a blockage start to form; I remove them as they come now! It also helps to do the Small Universe as you are walking places (and I don't have a vehicle so I have to walk all over town).

I have really begun to integrate QiGong fully into my life, every moment my sub-conscious radar is fully aware of the qi all around me. I have not actually begun to open the third eye or crown chakras yet. (I was told to wait a year or two) Though my third eye opens now and then by itself. I am contemplating purchasing the Moon & Sun meditation CDs until I would be able to take Level 3 in a class. (which I am confident that I am capable of doing)

Though I have been doing QiGong for quite some time now, at one point I have also had to do exactly what Iam2 is doing( rethink and restructure ). I had the whole energy concept wrong. When I first started QiGong a few years back, I tried to "make" the feeling of energy, rather than just naturally feeling my energy by visualizing it instead.

When you just relax completely, become very aware of what you are feeling on the inside of your body....take note of everything you feel internally, mentally tell all tension spots to relax.

Reminder to all: That when you breathe in to visualize that energy coming in from every atom of your body and gathering into the Lower Dantien, breathe out and "push" all sickness, pain, (even "curses"!) out of the body (through every cell) and outwards to the ends of the Universe.

Eventually, you may want to breathe in through your whole body (like above), then breathe out and push the energy ONLY through the palm of your hand (or sword fingers).

Another thing to try is:
Put your arms up slightly chest level.
Put your hands 12inches apart with the palms facing eachother
Point the Sword Fingers and the other hand's palm and send energy through the sword fingers while moving the hand with the Sword Fingers in a circular fashion... Your other hand should feel slightly tingly as the energy passes right through your hand and goes to the end of the Universe (the palm should feel like it's "tingling in a circle that travels parallel to the Sword fingers" if that makes any sense).

Then try to make a lightning bolt by sending vast amounts of energy when you exhale (always use the inhale to gather energy). The lightning bolt concept will allow your visualization to increase, thus increasing your healing power!

Also, when doing the 10,000 hands. When you breath out, exhale 2/3 of your breath as your hands get to where your heart is. Hold the remaining 1/3 and push it down into your Lower Dantien by expanding your stomach outwards just a little (don't force it now!) as you move your hands all the way down. Hold this for 3 seconds then proceed to move the 10,000 hands upwards.

I hope these exercises help!


For trouble with "distracting thoughts"
---------------------------------------
If you're like me(and most everyone) when you first are starting QiGong, then you may get many distracting thoughts and you will be trying with every ounce of energy to keep them out (so that you can concentrate and gather more energy). Defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

Therefore, to help many, when you first start, try this technique: Instead of your Lower Dantien, concentrate only on your breathing; in-breath and out-breath. This will help calm the mind, and any time any other though enters your mind, "breathe" it out. This way, for just a moment, your thoughts are completely clear. Keep at it, until you get to the point where these thoughts will come less and less. It will be like:

Start: "Tonight's party is going to be so much fun!"
Then: "Tonight's party is going..."
Over time: "Tonight's part..."
Eventually: " "
Master: " " (the difference is they are one with the Universe)

I hope this helps those of you who get distracted. And I hope it really helps you scatter-brained people (it helped me!). Hell, QiGong will cure scatter-brained-ness over time (As "nothingness" can't be scattered! Ha ha.)


.....

One last thing.... Iam2, how long did you do Level 1 & 2 before going to Moon meditation? Also, out of curiosity, how often do you do the active exercises? It didn't sound like in your post that you did them. The exercises are a vast help with your meditation. I recommend at the very least 15 minutes of active exercise, though 20 would be better. The only way to get fast results is to focus only on one thing (or a few things) at a time... You'll quickly find that if you don't worry about the end result, that the end result will come sooner. (this is kind of a Chinese proverb, but it's true)

I hope all this stuff helps atleast one person!

This post has been edited a million times!

~Zakyrus
(aka, "intermediate QiGong practioner", noob to Spring Forest System )


P.S. Could someone please tell me when I am supposed to exhale/inhale for the Cloud Hands excercise? Thanks a trillion!

Zakyrus, I'll see if I can give you what looking for.

First, I noted a statement "...exactly what Iam2 is doing( rethink and restructure ). I had the whole energy concept wrong." I'm not sure exactly what impression I've made, but I'll spend a little time chatting about me. It is one of my favourite subjects.

While at a LSC retreat in Aug. 2003, I had some very new and moving experiences. One type were dreams that were very informative, and easily interpreted by me. One of these dreams involved Chunyi Lin and meant that I was to study SFQ. Once I returned home I started SFQ with a fervor, which is the way I start just about everything new. Shawn can tell you stories of the posting fool called Iam2.

Within about three months I was regularly doing 2 to 4 hours of SFQ a day, everyday, at the same times. I was having all sorts of new and wonderful experiences. I was still pulling information from other personal development sources, and reading about things like hypnosis, time dilation, esp, Buddhist monks, auto-suggestion, and .... The nice thing is that I found that the SFQ model of qi conveniently and completely explained all of the other things I read about. I like this.

One day, After about 6 months, I knew I was to fast. I immediately did. I also bought a book on fasting, searched the net, and solicited help from this forum. It was a eye opening experience.

By this time I had also started the level II material. Not that I felt I had mastered level I. I have intellectually covered the material exhaustively.

A little later, I became interested in the level III material. Not that I had mastered the level I or II. I did the meditations in silence and from memory, which is my prefered methods since it allows me to match my own pace.

So about a year after I started SFQ I attended the level II retreat. I juice fasted the whole weekend (it was only powdered mix juice, but it was more than water). Again I had moving experiences, and learned much.

I returned home and continued the level III meditations. I edited my standard meditations mp3s to make multiple meditations, like the ones we followed at the retreat.

I have mastered the level III even less than the level I or II, and yet I am now planning to attending the level IV retreat this summer.

I have not spent the last 4 years doing 4 hours a day of meditation. In hind sight I wish I had. However, at the time I made other choices. I now have about 40 personal development books on my bookshelf, and over a dozen ebooks and CD based courses. I'm learning the best of what many masters have to offer. However, my foundation is SFQ.

Multiple goals in harmony and balance; mastering the flow of qi to create the many things my mind dreams; that is what I've been doing. So I may have said rethink or restructure, I merely meant that I've changed the balance of where I direct my energy. The teaching I acquired from SFQ has only broadened and been enriched by others lessons.

I think that will answer many of your questions, and is probably more than you were looking for. It's more than I had intended.


Now as for active meditation. I always do the level I active meditation. It is the start to my day, even now. When I say always, I mean when I am practicing SFQ meditations. For I have gone months with hardly any meditations. I'll say now that life is better on a regular meditation cycle. However, the child must touch to the fire to truely understand it. Ouch!

So at my peak I was doing 1 hour of level on active exercise. I did two 15 minute coffee breaks of Small Universe or Self-concentration. I woudl do a 1/2 hour at lunch time of small universe mostly, and an occaisional self-concentration. The evening would be a one of something like:

- 1 hr small universe
or
- 1/2 (or 1 hr) level I active + moon meditation (1hr)
or
- 1/2 (or 1 hr) small universe + moon meditation (1hr)

I have done the level two active, but I keep rooted in the level I active.

I have done the sun meditation, but it has never been as powerful for me as the moon.

I quite like the saturday afternoon group healing meditation. I do it for about 1/2 and hour.


Anything else you can try searching for, or ask. I've put just about everything; or at least the core of most things on this forum. The post count says, I missed a lot of meditation time just typing. However, I find that I learn a great deal by when trying to help others, which makes it very worthwhile being here.


You are perfection,
Iam2

ops:
Well, I guess I was way off when I replied Iam2, I don't really know what everyone's "level" is. (That'll teach me not to read through all the previous posts in this entire board yet)

Maybe you can answer me this. (Like I have said before, I do not claim to know everything....) When do you breathe in/out during the Cloud hands excersise? Is it between both hands extending outwards, or do you just breathe out while still grabbing your piece of puffy cloud. Any tips would be appreciative.

Zakyrus, I do not synchronize my breathing with my motions. My body is relaxed and open, but I see cloud hands a primarily a visualization exercise. I take visualization to include the other senses.


It would be foolish to try and read all the posts. I'm not even sure you could dig them all out.


I don't know everything either, but I do know that the basics in SFQ are simple and powerful. The additional details are helpful, but not as important. It is not necessarily easier to intellectually master the SFQ material, than the practice. However, I personally have more experience learning things intellectually. In SFQ the intellectual mastery is only the first step. It is not the most important lesson, but it is a necessary first step. First what, then how.


You are perfection.
Iam2