Forums IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ Paraliminals, Paraliminal Resets, Paraliminal Walkabouts, Natural Brilliance, Sonic Access Have a bad addiction that I'm trying to squash.

Interesting submodality language... squashing the addiction.

I've gotta say, the 12-steps are bunk.

The process is to negate the possibility of overcoming one's addiction and then to place the process in the hands of God.

If you, like me, have a strong inner faith, self-image and believe in the limitless capacity of your mind, then you'll wind up worse off for having tried it. Now, I may be wrong, but the whole idea of "You're unable to control yourself, and even when you do it's just a fruad until you have a relapse" is not a resourceful meme to be carying around and pushing on other people.

Everything of value in Overeater's Anonymous is already part of the ideal weight paraliminal. Everything else is pretty much dross. Using said paraliminal, I've reduced my weight by 45 pounds since the end of June. I only started running into major problems AFTER throwing my lot in with OA. It wasn't until I *left* a group constantly obsessed with food that I was able to free myself of their destructive ideology.

Kaiden,

I find it interesting what you said, "the whole idea of "You're unable to control yourself, and even when you do it's just a fruad until you have a relapse" is not a resourceful meme to be carying around." I agree. It is a very heavy burden to carry and should not be shouldered by anyone, namely one indivudual.

This past weekend, in between the times when I was trying to fix this cursed computer, I was visiting with my mom. She mentioned a friend of ours that had been offered this killer job at the premier salon in her area. She is very talented and what is interesting about this little story is that she turned it down. My mother reasoned that this individual turned it down because she was afraid of success. Goes against all logical thought, but it does make sense when one thinks about it. The responsibility alone can cause some people to fear even moving in that direction. It's not that they don't want the success, but they fear everything else...the letting people down, the not performing up to par, making a mistake, etc.

I have since thought about this and have wondered if I am not doing the same thing, i.e. using my addiction as a crutch to provide that minute amount of satisfaction that never really quenches ones thirst instead of moving thru the challenges that are before me to gain the better prize, the greater satisfaction. But there you have it. The uncomfortableness of working through the problem...or...receiving instant gratification in the form of this or that solution. One is the better of course, but the problem arises that one has to convince him/herself to change. Either one remains a slave or becomes the master, in charge of his own life.

One thing I've found useful is to take 12-step literature and create resourceful states through the use of different NLP models.

E.g. consider OA's "invitation to you"

quote:

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At the very first meeting we attended, we learned that we were in the clutches of a dangerous illness, and that willpower, emotional health, and self-confidence, which some of us had once possessed, were no defense against it.

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Questions generated from that:
Do willpower, emotional health, and self confidence never provide a defence?
What would it be like if you had sufficiant willpower, emotional health, and self confidence to triumph over this dangerious illness?
How will you recognize when you have this willpower, emotional health, and self confidence?

As you can see, they're pretty sneaky themselves with the presuppositions. "Which some of us once possessed. Presupposing that there are two kinds of people, ones who never possessed it and ones who lost it somewhere along the way. Totally unresourceful belief, ain't it? In fact, this is the very definition of a limiting belief - a belief that limits one's access to resources like willpower, self-control and emotional health. The more one stays in a 12-step group, the more one looses access to these resources.

The most resourceful belief I've had in overcoming addition is the belief that I have a perfect nature. Thomas Cleary translates this as "celestial pattern." This is something implied in Spring Forest Qigong. All that I need to do to ignore any addiction is bring myself in alignment with my Celestial Pattern. If it can stop a migraine, surely it can stop a craving. When you give into an addiction, you reinforce the blockage. When all your channels are open and your qi flows freely, you by definition have no addictions. To deal specifically with my problem of compulsive overeating, I'm not "a fat person." I'm a person of an ideal weight with energy blockages causing morbid obesity. Clearing the energy blockages has, so far, cleared away 45 pounds of excess fat from my body. The belief that I simply do not have the addiction, and that any cravings are the manifestation of energy blockages, is the most resourceful belief of this type.

I hope this was helpful.

[This message has been edited by Kaiden (edited October 21, 2003).]

The 12 steps have worked for tens of millions of people who have tried many other methods. It is the single most successful model of recovery from addiction in the world today. That's a statistical fact, not just my personal opinion.

The world is full of opinions... most of them frivilous and irrelevant. It's not just about world view or philosophy... it's about what works.

Read Power vs. Force by David Hawkins for a good overview of the history of addiction treatment and recovery. Dr. Hawkins is a psychiatrist who treated thousands of people with addictions over several decades. He is the co-author of Orthomolecular Psychiatry with Nobel Prize winning scientist Linus Pauling.

See: http://www.veritaspub.com

Best wishes,

Robert

P.S. I'm speaking from personal experience, by the way, having overcome a number of serious addictions using the 12 steps. I have been clean and sober since October 31, 1997. I do not take any medication. I have lost forty pounds in the last 2 years. Over the years, I have witnessed the dramatic transformation of hundreds of other individuals with my own eyes.

quote:

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Originally posted by Kaiden:
I've gotta say, the 12-steps are bunk.

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[This message has been edited by rhammond2k (edited October 21, 2003).]

Richard,

The 12-Steps do work, but only for people who have the belief that they are incapable of solving their own lives without the aid of the God of their understanding. Now, this can be anything from J.R. "BOB" Dobbs to Power vs. Force by David Hawkins, but it's still a soteriological approach that is dependant upon bringing a person into a state of absolute submission to an outside authority.

For rational humanists, such as myself, this supernatural approach (or spiritual, as they like to say), simply does not work. I'm not an atheist, or an agnostic. I am, however, utterly convinced that the Goddess of my understanding has already given me every inner resource I need without having to ask Her for a miracle.

To use Ambrose Bierce's classic definition of prayer: "To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy."

From what I've been able to gleen, the 12-Steps are a way to restore intuition - those subtle internal signals that let you know when you're doing something harmful to yourself, (e.g. the feeling of nausia that comes from eating well past the point of fullness). However, saying that it's God talking to you?

Take a look at EFT which is a great tool for working with addictions and lots of other emotional issues. I saw this was mention before, but this tool is so powerful and simple I’ve just had to post it again, - it should be implemented in grade school!
I urge you to take a serious look. It’s very simple and quick to apply on small or big issues. I lost my extreme spider phobia in 10min (no kidding) and I use it for many small things at well, - it’s really amazing. For instance if I get a bit sad or angry over a thing, I just apply EFT for 10sec and my bad feelings just fades away like magic. You may not implement EFT as a new behaviour tool, but you can use EFT when you get the feeling that brings you into acting out your addiction.
http://www.emofree.com/addiction.htm

You find the free manual here: http://www.emofree.com/freestuff.htm

I agree with the last poster that EFT is also a very powerful and fast technique to eliminate cravings, phobias, and addictive behaviors. I found it an extremely helpful adjunct to the 12 step programs, Sedona Method and other technologies.

As to the 12 step programs being helpful only for people who believe that God is outside of themselves... that is simply not true. I have many friends in AA who are atheists, agnostics, Buddhists, and pagans.. who do not subscribe to the traditional Judeo-Christian theology of a transcendent Creator/God existing apart from themselves. In fact, the 12 step model has actually helped me break the bondage of religiosity and dogma in order to intuit a more personal experience of reality.. beyond belief systems.

Again, this is not about theology or world views... it's about what works. If what you're doing is already working for you then keep doing it. If it's not.. then you might consider trying something different.

Best wishes,

Robert

I had a colleague who was an avid smoker. One day he ran out of cigarettes and was too lazy to go to the store to buy another pack.

A day passed.

He found that it was interesting that he didn't go get himself a pack of cigarettes, and really didn't want to be bothered with it, so he decided to not take the trouble to go to the store to buy them the second day.

This continued for a while, and one day he just shrugged and decided, "Eh, I might as well just quit." And he did.

He'd been smoking for years. He hadn't taken up smoking as a full time thing since he quit. He may have had a cigarette or two, maybe not. I don't know. But I do know I never saw him smoke while I knew him.

It's a true story. No 12 step programs, no higher power, just laziness, curiousity, and a decision.

I guess it's a personal decision when you boil down to it. This guy also had a tenacious resolve not to let himself be bothered by BS.

When you're sure you're sure, when you're not you're not. I drank a lot around certain friends and situations. I have been away from those friends and situations for a long time, and I just don't drink very often anymore. I wasn't an alcoholic, but I was certainly getting drunk more than was healthy for me. When I go back to those places, friends, and situations, I'll sometimes get drunk. Sometimes decide not to. It's nice to have the choice. And it's good to thoroughly exercise BOTH sides of the choice and to know them fully for what they really are. (Here I must point out that many choices have more than two sides ... and sometimes the ideas we have of this or that is really deciding upon only one thing again and again and really isn't a choice at all).

Frankly, I think belief in helplessnes, identifying oneself as permantly diseased, and with a weakness that turns into full blown hell when you give in to the slightest temptation to be a formula for lifelong tyranny. It's simply replaces one tyrant with another. That is, the addiction with the fear of the addiction and the role of an addict.

That's just my view of it. I'd cut off my arm sooner than join a 12 step program for ANY addiction I might participate in.

quote:

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Originally posted by babayada:
That's just my view of it. I'd cut off my arm sooner than join a 12 step program for ANY addiction I might participate in.

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At the risk of sounding crazy, let me defend my choice. The motivation for me was not so much a desire to stop compulsive overeating as it was to have a structure to work with for The Path. Esmeralda Arana presents the techniques of applied sorcery in such a beautifully simple way; tying in the ideas of Carlos Castenada, A.A., and other things like the Monroe Institute. However, the Memetic Garbage of the actual groups is just bloody aweful. I couldn't realistically do Step Three and stay in the group at the same time. This is not just because the language presuposses the Divine has a penis ("Him"), but that my understanding of the Comic Birther is that I have all the inner resources I need right now to overcome any addiction or compulsion. The first three steps can be summed up as, "I can't. God can. I think I'll let God." For me, the experience is, "I can't. Oh wait, I can. I guess I will. Why the hell am I with these people?"

Now, with ANY addiction or compulsive behavior, there is MORE than just "stop it." There are reasons the behavior was adopted in the first place, and underlying issues do need to be addressed. However, there is no reason to bring a supernatural SkyDaddy into the picture.

I'm glad I joined OA, because I did gain a lot of useful distinctions. However, I believe recovery to be more important than anything else, including OA. Since OA is hindering my recovery through memetic garbage, I need to avoid it.

Think about it rationally. What's the better affirmation, "Hello, I'm Kaiden and I'm a compulsive overeater, DexTard, compulsive spender, and satyrmaniac?" or "Hello, I'm Kaiden, and I am free from all addictions and obscuring emotions."

[This message has been edited by Kaiden (edited October 22, 2003).]