Forums IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ Paraliminals, Paraliminal Resets, Paraliminal Walkabouts, Natural Brilliance, Sonic Access Have a bad addiction that I'm trying to squash.

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

--Herbert Spencer

Dear Markan and all,

Bottom line is... if you're happy, free of addictions, at your ideal weight and off of medication... then whatever you're doing is great for you.

Regardless of what anybody else has to say about the twelve steps... I have yet to hear of any other single method that has the same success rate. Sure, you can come with an anecdote or two about somebody who just got tired of smoking one day and quit... or just got too lazy to go to the liquor store and buy any more booze... or whatever... but can you say that you know of millions of people who have recovered from devastating addictions and remained free for years based on any other specific model?

I believe the original poster of this message was looking for something that could actually work for them... not an analysis of theology.

So, all I can offer is what I know has actually worked for me... and millions of other people.

No matter what method you try... I wish you well. I have no personal stake in trying to convince you that what worked for me and millions of others is guaranteed to work for you.

If others on this board can say that they have experienced success in overcoming destructive addictions... and they are happy in their lives... free of medication.. at their ideal weight, prosperous, etc... more power to them.

Meanwhile, realize that each of us must find our own path... our own truth... what may seem to be the reality of one person does not necessarily apply to everyone. So I hope you find whatever works for you.

Best wishes,

Robert

P.S. You may also consider chanting Nam Myoho Renge Kyo and see what happens....

Sedona Method has some great insight with the problems you are talking about.
The gist of it is that you let go of the postative and negative mental/emotional/physical energy. You abhor your current behavior; the stronger the emphasis you put on it, the stronger it's opposite. When you feel the core of your compulsion, you can accept it, and let it go. Get ahold of the Sedona Method, I think it will help.

How about, "Hello, I'm a human being. I've got flaws. I screw up. But I also do good things too. I have things that are out of my control and things that are in my control. But I have consciousness, freewill, and the ability to make up my own mind about things."

Sometimes it is as easy as just stopping it. It's getting to that place where you see that that is a possibility that's the problem. It's there.

Frankly, if someone wants to go into a twelve step or whatever for "Structure" that's their business. My personal decision, having had friends in high school put through various "rehabilitation" programs, would be to steer clear.

You don't need to defend your choices.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited October 22, 2003).]

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Originally posted by babayada:
You don't need to defend your choices.

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Thanks. More memetic garbage: the constant self-reflection and emphesis on appology. Obviously, I have contempt after investigation.

And, as far as a theology lession goes, the idea of "God is watching you" comes from the split between the lower and upper chakra points. The upper triad turns into a sort of "superego" while the lower triad becomes an "id." The middle chakra, the Heart Zone, becomes a closed gate between them. This is also why addicts cannot control their behavior. When I started the 12-Step work, I thought that it would heal any rifts between upper and lower chakras. As it turns out, all it does is give more control to upper chakras by dissociating from them and calling them "God."

The 12-Steps work, in that they stop addictions, but they utterly fail to heal people on a spiritual level.

quote:

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Originally posted by rhammond2k:

Meanwhile, realize that each of us must find our own path... our own truth... what may seem to be the reality of one person does not necessarily apply to everyone. So I hope you find whatever works for you.

[/B]

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What is truly one of the best benefits of a forum such as this one is the vast amount of information that are available to members of society. Here I am looking for a solution to a problem that has tormented me for quite some time and the the response back has been incredible. What is best about this is that I have the opportunity to pick and choose from all of the different options with which to destroy this addiction. In other words, I am able to choose the best, the most probable course of action with which to attack the enemy without any added cost to myself by trying to figure it out by my lonesome. I truly appreciate this and thank all of you.

Later for now.

[This message has been edited by markan52 (edited October 25, 2003).]

Kaiden,

"Thanks. More memetic garbage: the constant self-reflection and emphesis on appology. Obviously, I have contempt after investigation."

Would you please clarify? I don't exactly get where you are coming from here. I realize the reference to apology has something to do with my statement (?), and I am assuming that you are labeling the self-referential comments at the beginning of my post as "constant self-reflection." Is that accurate? If so, then are you saying my viewpoint is the same as proposed by the 12 steppers?

My point was that there is no need to apologize and that it's a good thing to accept the good things about yourself as well as the bad things and to identify yourself as someone ultimately capable.

If your comments about chakras is another way of saying that a person's desires and values are out of whack and that this can contribute to a paranoid view of God, then I can certainly agree with you there.

quote:

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Originally posted by babayada:
I realize the reference to apology has something to do with my statement (?), and I am assuming that you are labeling the self-referential comments at the beginning of my post as "constant self-reflection." Is that accurate? If so, then are you saying my viewpoint is the same as proposed by the 12 steppers?

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Oh, I'm saying that my appology is part of the 12-Stepper meme of constant self-reflection. We have to take inventories of all our affairs, tell them to other people and to God, and always be on the lookout for doing "bad things." It's close to the Witness step of Natural Brilliance, but it brings in so much over-structured B.S. 12-Step Groups are also very big on saying you're sorry and making things right.

You definately got what I was saying about Chakras. In NLP'ish terms, when a person lacks internal congruency, a religious explanation of "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak" is far too easy to accept. To accept this explanation requires an a priori schism between a person's physical and mental self. This schism is easily generalized into a split between the universe's physical and mental self (e.g. a Trancendant God).

Of course, the universe DOES have such a split, as Azathoth is a "mad idiot," while it's disembodied ego, Narlythotep, enjoys the freedom that comes with being a disembodied ego.

[What can I say. After PhotoReading, Activating and Rapid Reading "Alchoholics Anonymous" all in one day, I decided that H.P. Lovecraft's religion makes a lot more sense then Dr. Bob's].

The 12 step stuff sounds like an overreaction.

"I have been a failure at trying to be on the dominant/controlling side of things, so I am going to go way far off into the submissive deep end.

So, I must apologise. I must take the idea of any power to affect myself and my world and put it out of me and into another. Then my problem will be solved."

Sounds a little bit overdone. Granted, such devotional, submissive forms of behavior can be ecstatic ... devotional/submissive practices do often result in feelings of ecstacy ... but is it ultimately worth it as a way of life? Maybe a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to stay there.

Hi Marty,

It is good to see the response to help you with your addictive behavior. I have been reading Anthony Robbins's book "Awaken The Giant Within" and it mentions some things that apply to your situation:

From p.108, the 5th Chapter - Can Change Happen in an Instant?

"...a radical concept? You bet. But I passionately argued that all changes are created in a moment. It's just that most of us wait until certain things happen before we finally DECIDE to make a shift. If we truly understood how the brain worked, I argued, we could stop the endless process of ANALyzing why things had happened to us, and if we could just simply change the way our nervous systems had been conditioned [we could] take charge of our lives IMMEDIATELY."

It is interesting to note here how whatever system or no-system may been used to effect change - it always comes from a definite DECISION on the part of the one seeking change.

One point I would add that I haven't seen mentioned in the previous posts to this discussion is the issue of energy seeking an outlet. If I am guessing rightly concerning your addiction - I had personal experience with this myself - this is a matter of rightly directing the creative energies that are flowing into your life. If these energies aren't directed to a higher creative outlet - some kind of business, artwork, writing, etc., then it will naturally find a lower outlet for its expression. You may be a powerfully creative person and therefore you may be dealing with a strong current of energy. Instead of thinking of this as a squashing of the addictive behavior - focus instead on the new higher creative outlet for that energy. By opening a higher outlet you will focus your mind on this new activity. Give it everything that you have got - be passionate about it - focus all of your desires upon seeing this new creative project accomplished.

I would also suggest some kind of daily meditative / affirmation activity in which you affirm your decision and complete dedication to this new creative outlet and that you have focused all of your creative energies to this end.

I recently received the following in an email title Cherokee wisdom. I thought this thread would be a good place for it, and having just read this last little bit of it I feel then end of liningsuccess' last post works nicely into it.

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An old Cherokee was teaching his grandson about life.

'A fight is going on inside me', he said to the boy. 'It is a terrible fight, and it is between two wolves. One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego. The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith'.

'The same fight is going on inside you, and inside every other person, too.'

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, 'Which wolf will win?'.

The old Cherokee simply replied, 'The one you feed.'
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You are perfection.
Iam2

[This message has been edited by Iam2 (edited November 02, 2003).]