lucid dreaming - Forum for PhotoReading, Paraliminals, Spring Forest Qigong, and your quest for improvement

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And also, i've seen posts that talk about OBEs, (out of the body experinces),
whats that about, is it the same thing as an astral proyeccion, and are both the same as lucid dreaming, because i'm a little confused, hope that some one can clear my doubts.

and if OBEs are not the same thing, how do you achive those.

Hi again Pablomx,

This morning, I realized why some may relate OBEs with lucid dreaming.
It came to me this morning, while I was experiencing my latest lucid
dream. One fun activity to perform when lucid dreaming is to "fly."
Indeed, that's the first impulse I have when I enter lucidity. It may
betray a subconscious desire to leave the bounds of the waking world, and
when I fly in a lucid dreaming state, I REALLY feel like a bird, flying
freely! (I'm also an airplane pilot in real life, and flying a plane is
still SO restrictive with all the noise of the engines and having to
monitor all those instruments and handle those cumbersome controls. In
real life, flying a plane is more like driving a complicated bus than
truly flying.) But in lucid dreaming, I feel like I'm really flying like
a bird, and the feeling is wonderful.

Just this morning, as I entered lucidity, I felt my legs starting to
"peel" away from my body, floating higher and higher into the air. My
head was anchoring me down at first, but as I sank deeper into lucidity, I
"detached" from my body, and I was flying freely again. I remembered your
question about OBEs, and that's when I made the connection ... perhaps
this is what some people interpret as an OBE. I made an effort to try to
look at my body lying on my bed, but to be honest, I could not see myself.
(To me, that suggests that it only FELT like I was out of my body, when in
fact, I was just in a different state of consciousness, and merely
PERCEIVED to be out of my body.) As I flew around my "house", I noticed
things which should not be where they appeared in the dream, so I knew I
was dreaming, not truly having an OBE. But I can easily see why some who
similarly experience a lucid dream could perceive themselves as having an
OBE, because during lucidity, it really feels like one is a disembodied
spirit flying around.

Well, my dream went on to be one of the most profound dreams I've ever
had. I heard the most beautiful music performed by a complete symphony, a
song I had never heard before, one which completely enraptured me and
moved me to tears, and one which I truly wished I could record. (I often
hear such songs in my dreams, and, gee - I REALLY wish I could bring a
tape recorder into the dream-world with me!) And I experienced what I
perceived to be a scene from my future, a deeply moving experience. The
colors, sounds, textures, and emotions were all ultra-sharp,
ultra-realistic, as if I were living in a high-definition universe. And I
was fully conscious and appreciating every moment. (Ever see the movie,
What Dreams May Come with Robin Williams? It's like that!) And when the
dream began to conclude, the music (which now included a lovely choir)
ended right on cue, and that world gradually faded out, to be exchanged for
this world. Nevertheless, the profound sense of contentment, peace, and joy
lingered as I lay in bed, reliving the experience to my journal.

So, I thought I'd share that. There does seem to be a connection between
lucid dreaming and perceived OBEs. And the experience is so profound that
some may believe that they actually did leave their bodies. I suppose
it's ok to interpret the experience however one wishes to do so, but there
is an easy way to test whether in fact an OBE occurred in objective,
physical reality. The test is to have your spouse write on a piece of
paper a number (unknown to you), and to put it on top of a tall piece of
furniture, which you cannot see from the ground. If you really have a
lucid-dreaming OBE, just remember to fly up to that piece of paper and
examine what the number is. And when you awake, ask your spouse whether
it was the right number. (Do this honestly - no peeking in real life! -
of course.)

Best to you and your dreams!

HF

OBEs are not considered the same as Lucid Dreaming experience to the start of each is different, I recommend lucid dreaming. Causes less distress.

Alex

Thanks for all the posts they have all help me a lot and hartreefoch cool experince thanks for sharing.

I'm still not lucid but i'm not in a rush, it will happen when it happens.

Alex, why is that OBEs cuase less dsitress, what do you mean by that? I understand that distress is a higher level of stress, but does OBEs cuase this, and when you say "less" does this mean that lucid dreaming also causes distress??�isn't this soposed to help?

hope you can clear my doubts.

Pablo

Hi Pablomx,

Glad to share. Yes, lucidity is a wonderful experience. I would not call
is stressful at all. Quite the opposite ... it is absolutely euphoric.
I think it's one of the most genuinely euphoric feelings I have ever had.
I have never drunk or smoked or done drugs, so I don't know what a
chemically induced "high" feels like. But I can guess that probably the
feeling one has when lucid is akin to getting "high" ... only much better,
because you are in full control of your consciousness and senses. It
really is like stepping into another dimension, another universe. And when
you return to this dimension and universe, you're not sad or hung over or
depressed ... because the joy lingers and the rest of the day/week/month,
you're still feeling all the wonderful things you did during lucidity. I
HIGHLY recommend it to anyone.

With regards to OBEs ... it would be interesting to hear from someone who
has experienced both lucid dreaming and the so-called OBEs. My personal
hunch is that they are the same things in different contexts, because
during lucidity, I really do feel as though I'm leaving my body (if I'm dream-flying, that is).
But, again, if there's a genuine difference between these two experiences, I
have to defer to someone who's actually experienced both to describe the
differences.

Best to you,

HF

Let me put it another way ...

If I were a religious person, I would easily descibe lucid dreaming as a religious experience.

It's that powerful, and well worth your time and intention to achieve.

OBE take you to some unusual places. If you think it's hard to maintain a lucid dream it's even harder to stay in an OBE. With dreams you want to remember that your body is lying in bed and that you are dreaming. With OBE any thought about your body will pull you right back in. And the pulling in and falling out sensations I didn't like. Especially the falling out of the body. for some reason you push and pull until you're ready to take the leap. Then you're not sure where you will wind up. Some OBEs are more creepy than nightmares. Lucid dreams are much more fun.

Alex

That's interesting. I wonder if different people have different kinds of
OBEs, like some people have good Near Death Experiences (going to heaven),
while others have very bad ones (visiting hell).

Anyone have a good OBE experience to share? Other posters to other
threads in this forum seem to offer very positive OBE accounts, feelings
which seem quite similar to the feelings I have during my lucid dreaming.

I think a rational explanation of both is that these are phenomena
experienced during an altered state of consciousness. You can call it
"dreaming" or "deep trance" or whatever else you like... what ties both
together is that the brain is functioning differently during these states,
and thus the person experiences certain sensations which is interpreted as
"flying" or "leaving the body," etc. It would be interesting to record
the brain's function using ECGs or CAT scans during such experiences to
build a more objective picture of what's happening in the brain.

Hi, I found some good ariticles in the web that relate to OBEs and Lucid dreaming.

http://spiritwatch.ca/luciddreams.htm
http://www.lucidity.com/NL32.OBEandLD.html

Hope you can check them out and tell me what you think.

I think i'm strating to understand the difference, a lucid dream is made out of your memorys and you can create your own reality, but in a OBEs you are actually in the real world but in a other type of realm.

Some thing funny happend to me the other day, i had a dream where i was talking with my girlfriend but it was very real, to the point that i actually thought it did happen, so when i saw her, i accidently mencioned something she told me on my dream, she put a funny face and told me 'how did you know?', i told her that she told me and she replied she had never said anything to me about that. A little bit strange, don't you think.

But i have heard of people that can meet while they are in OBEs and then when they see each other they can actually talk about what they did. I think thats very intresting.

Pablo

Hi Pablomx,

Thanks so much for posting those articles. Yes, they were very, very
interesting, and I learned something: those experiences I relayed to you
in the above posts about flying in my lucid dreams are actually classified
as legitimate OBEs by the authors!!! I never realized that!

I appreciate the fact that the researchers acknowledge that the vast
majority of OBEs begin when the subject is in bed, resting, sleeping, or
ill, and a very small proportion begin when the subject is medicated or
drugged. So, it seems that the research evidence shows a strong
correlation between OBEs and lucid dream flying/floating, and that we're
actually describing the same thing using different words, just as I
suspected. It's definitely true that not all of my lucid dreams involve
OBEs, because in some lucid dreams, I choose to stay in my body. Lucid
flying/floating is definitely an option, and now I know that these
occurrences can properly be called OBEs. Perhaps when others draw a line
between lucid dreaming and OBEs, they're describing a lucid dream where
they do not feel as though they are rising out of their body, but are
merely lucid while dreaming. I regularly have both experiences.

Regarding the bolder statement about the possibility of having a "real"
OBE in this physical realm, well, again, I will let you be the judge of
your own experiences and those told by others. Personally, I tend to be
wary of such stories, because I'm dedicated to intellectual honesty, and
it's easier for me to believe humans like to deceive themselves than for
me to believe that some physical law has actually been breached. I'm not
excluding the possibility of the latter, but I require rigorous,
undeniable evidence before I can believe it. I have yet to find such
evidence. All I can say at this point is that I regularly experience OBEs
(as defined by the researchers), and I can concur why it FEELS so real,
and yet, admit to myself in all honesty that it is only a perception.
How you wish to interpret your experiences is wholly up to you.

For example, in the story which you relayed about your girl-friend, I
could suggest that your sub-conscious mind is aware of certain things
about her (which even your conscious mind is not fully aware of), and that
during your dream, it was playing out a likely scenario involving her and
how she would respond. Then, when you relayed the dream to her in
reality, it only seemed to agree because it was already true to begin
with. The fact that the match occurred seemed very surprising to your
conscious self, and now you have a story to tell. There was also the
chance that your dream did not correlate with reality, but if that were
the case, you would not be as eager to note the experience, and rather,
you would be inclined to forget it more easily. This is called "selective
memory" ... the human tendency to emphasize certain events which supports
one's notions, and to discount ones which do not. We are all susceptible
to selective memory, and it takes great courage, integrity, and honesty to
interpret something as objectively as possible.

Nevertheless, I don't wish to lessen the significance of your experiences
with all this intellectualizing. As long as your experiences enrich your
life and enhance its meaning, they should be treasured for what they are.
I tend to rationalize, only because it is in my nature to do so.

Thanks again for sharing the articles, and please continue to let us know
how you progress in your lucidity.

Best,

HF

Hi hf,

Thanks for your opinion on my experience with my girlfriend, and yeah that could be the case, never thought about it that way : ), i'm open to diferent explanations, but im still open to the possibility of comunicating with other pernsons during this state of mind, do you know anyone close to you that also has this type of experinces, I mean, that way you could do some experiments and try meet that person and after talk about it and see for yourself, that could give you some type of proof. Because i can't really say for myself because i don't have the same experience you have on this topic, i'm just a humble beginer.

Oh yeah, have you ever gone out of the planet on your lucidity or obes?, i think that could be kind of cool.

Pablo

Hey Pablomx ...

Well, maybe when you become a master lucid-dreamer/OBEer, we can "meet"
somewhere and share an adventure

Yes, many of my lucid experiences have involved "other worlds." Indeed,
many have involved even "other times," like my most recent dream. I knew
I was in the future, and I witnessed something which I perceived to be in
my future. In the dream, it felt like I was in one of those Back to the
Future movies, where I KNOW I'm out of my correct time-frame, and yet, I'm
actually "there" in the future. Well, if what I witnessed is fulfilled in
this "reality", I'll surely let you know.

To be honest, though, I don't remember traveling through space (like
flying past stars, planets, etc.) in my other-worldly type of dreams. I
just find myself "there" and I interact with the strange creatures or
other objects there. I remember a city in the clouds once. Sliding down
a rainbow. Talking to lion- or horse-like creatures that could fly.
Pretty wild stuff ... stuff that dreams are made of.

And the transition to OBEs are very pleasant, too. Like slipping my hand
out of a glove, so it feels like I slip out of my body. Or jumping off a
cliff or high building (like in the Matrix) and knowing I won't "die" but
rather turn into an eagle and soar away. Gee - if I heard someone else
describing these things, I'd suspect they were smoking some weed, ha ha.
But trust me, you don't need any drugs to have these experiences, only a
prepared mind.

Talk to you later,

HF

Wow, I just wanted to say that I've read tons of your posts in here (as well as the photoreading forum) hartreefoch, and you seem to have some wonderful insight into many aspects. Seriously, I'm impressed and hope to be that well versed in these areas.
I'm certainly a dreamer, but I mean that in a way that people usually mean it when they say that some kid's got his head in the clouds. I feel that I come up with good ideas at times when I think about something because I have a knack for predicting possible outcomes.
As for lucid dreaming... not yet. I would love to be able to dream lucidly, but at this time, I think that getting more than a few hours of sleep would be a strong contributing factor to the success of that plan. Am I correct in that?
Also, I was wondering if there were any personal stumbling points you've found in your experience with lucid dreaming. An example of what I mean is how Alex said that during an OBE if you think about your body you will be pulled back.
Is there anything of the like with lucid dreaming?
Thanks for your input and sharing of your experiences.

Tony

ps- Hello Alex! I decided I should probably sign up with an account and begin contributing to these discussions! Keep up the slog! (or am I making another incorrect assumption on the use of that word?)

Hi Tony,

Thanks for your note! I appreciate your acknowledgment. When I first
began participating here, I was the one who had all the questions and
problems, and the good folks here helped me out a lot. I guess gradually
over time, I've grown, and I'm pleased I'm able to help out others now, in
the little ways I can.

Regarding your questions, yes, I found that the best mental state to
induce lucidity is one of restfulness and stresslessness. So, getting
enough sleep will definitely help.

Regarding problems encountered in lucid dreaming, most of the ones I've
experienced were during the early stages, when I first began actually
becoming lucid. The first time, I was so surprised that I woke up almost
immediately. (It really is a shocking realization, but in a good sense,
like getting totally surprised at a surprise party.) But I quickly
overcame this initial feeling of surprise, and was able to stay in the
dream longer and longer.

Also, sometimes lucidity begins to fade in a prolonged dream, and I can
feel it coming to an end. There are ways I've learned to prolong
lucidity, and one is "spinning" ... that is, to imagine myself spinning
around and around, faster and faster. It's a remarkable technique that
really works. By spinning, I can quickly re-establish lucidity and
prolong the dream, often to new depths. I don't know why it works.
There must be a physiological reason, because it is so effective and
always works for me.

In general, though, all my lucid experiences have been very positive.
Indeed, sometimes, my lucidity saves me from what would have been a
frightening nightmare. For example, my dream may start out normal, and I
would get into a bad situation, like falling off a cliff or being attacked
by some vicious animal, etc., but then I would become lucid, and I could
easily laugh at the apparently dire situation and turn it into a pleasant
adventure. Falling off a cliff - no problem - I just soar away into the
sunset. Vicious animal attack - no problem - I just turn it into a cute
puppy. Lucidity has always given me control over the dream, and I've
always thoroughly enjoyed them. It's an extremely liberating ability.

It's funny ... when I told my dad about lucid dreaming, he was immediately
suspicious. He's a religious man, and he believed lucid dreaming was an
opening for demon possession. So, at first, he was very resistant to the
idea. Well, it turns out that he himself enjoyed a lucid dream after a
short time, and he reported it was quite a nice experience. He didn't
pursue it, though, because it is not important to him. But he feels less
suspicious about the whole concept in general now.

The best lesson I've learned from lucid dreaming is lucid living. Yes,
lucidity during sleep is quite fun, but far more important is living life
lucidly.

Well, let me know if you have other questions, but if not, I wish you the
best in your life and dreams,

HF

hi

Guess what�� i almost did it, i was having a dream and i remembered that during the dream i ask myself if it could be a dream, i didn't really get lucid i got caught back in the dream, but for a moment just one moment i did the question, this was like two days ago and hasn't happend again but it doesn't matter beacase that was some kind of progress, i hope. I think i might be close to lucidity, time will tell.

By the way HF, i know this might not be the forum to ask, but since i know you practice PR, you have ever activated during a lucid dream.

is it ok if i ask this in this forum or should i post this on the PR(for future posting).

AWESOME, Pablomx!!!

You're on the verge, my friend!! Keep asking the question during the day,
keep anticipating, and it will happen.

Regarding your question about activating during a lucid dream, I'll have
to review my dream journal before answering. Right now, I can't remember
any specific circumstance, but if I find differently, I'll let you know.

I think the categories in this forum are only meant as rough guidelines.
You can post anywhere, as long as it's related to the discussion in the
thread.

Best,

HF

Hey, Congrats, Pablomx. That's great for you. I'm currently in the same search that it seems you are. And man oh man, last night I was again attempting to dream lucidly and I think that I hit a snag somewhere...

I took the suggestion to make it a purpose to dream lucidly before I slept because before I only decided on the topic on which I wished to dream. I felt like it was working so well, but I honestly felt like I spent an entire night on the verge and then scaring myself awake. Like the example hartreefoch gave when he did a similar thing, but A LOT.
I probably woke up around fifteen different times last night!!
Needless to say, I didn't sleep well, but the experience was exciting nonetheless.

Also, I feel that the sleeping with a purpose of greasing up the neural pathways that I began during the day in my studies has helped me a lot. This has me very excited for the future.
I am a US Marine, and currently in my training I'm learning Arabic. It's a handful, but I may have found some invaluable tools here... I've honestly already noticed an influx in usage of the language in my dreams since I began this practice. Very Promising

Hi Tony,

US Marine, eh? Well, that explains why you don't get enough sleep

Yes, that is another way to induce lucidity ... just "notice" yourself drifting off and try to keep awareness when you enter the dream-state. It might be more pleasant when you have some R&R time, perhaps over the holiday break. Keep trying, though, with a relaxed intention.

Keep us informed of your progress, and happy Arabic studies!

HF

Thanks. You've been very helpful - with all the other posts I've read as well.
Combine that with your progress... looks like you could get a job at LSC!!
I think there is enough work for Alex to spread out over another person. Look! Partners

Sure thing, Tony ... best to ya!

Hi,

Good news, i think i finally achived it, but i'm not quite sure, yesterday i was having a nice dream, but before it ended i knew i was dreaming so i was able change some things in my dream at will.

But in somes parts i could see myself but i knew it was a dream, can this be considered a lucid dream?

Hey Pablomx!

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

Yes, if you knew it was a dream and can control it, then you have just experienced
a lucid dream! If the awareness was not as strong as you had expected, don't worry ...
from now on, it should get easier, more frequent, and your lucidity will deepen.
(There are many "levels" of lucidity, from barely conscious to fully conscious.)
Keep with it, and you will get better and better at lucidity.

Again, congrats!!! (Wow ... you achieved it so quickly! I'm impressed!

Hi HF,

I guess it was a barely consious lucidity, but it was cool : ). Like with evrything practice makes the master, and i'm not in a hurry, time will pass if i pratice or not, so i rader try and let time make me good at it. Patience : ).

I just wanted to thank you because you helped me a lot with your advice and if i achieved it quickly must be because you give good advice : ).

Pablo.

P:S Hope know I can share cool adventures.

Hi Pablomx,

Thanks for your kind words

Also - regarding your earlier question about activation during lucid dreaming, I remembered
an even more interesting story to share ....

Many times during my dreams, I will dream I am reading a book. I can clearly see
the words and I read the sentences like in waking life. But here is another good way
I discovered to become lucid. I will re-read the last sentence I read (in my dream),
and if it is a dream, the words will always change! And that is a very obvious "dream-sign",
which alerts me that I am in a dream ... and this realization makes me lucid.
(This also works with banners and other written signs in dreams, too ... if I read them again,
the words change .... and I know I am in a dream!)

Yes, keep at it, and many lucid adventures await you

Hello,

I was about 20 when I had my first lucid dream- it was a mindblowing experience.

I found that if I meditated early morning and then fell asleep again the likelihood ws that I would have a lucid dream.

Now I have got into a rut and don't meditate with as much frequency and find that it has been so long since I have had one. I will use that technique that is mentioned above- about constantly questioning one's environment to see if there are any telltale signs that I am dreaming.

Also I found that I typically dreamt lucidly for short periods or bursts of time- and would often get involved in the dream and lose lucidity. One technique that I did when in the lucid state was to look in a mirror at yourself or of course flying is the best most exhilirating experience a human can have.

Best regards,
DNA

Hello,

Just to add on to what I wrote yesterday, last night as I was going to sleep I got several "flashes"- or images one was of a picture that I had seen in an e mail of the "carribean"- I think that it just shows how simply talking about lucid dreaming with others even on this limited mode, on the forum- is an excellent means of making it more conscious and therefore making it more probable that you will have a lucid dream.

Best regards
Dean

Until now I had never really thought much of it, but I suppose I have been a lucid dreamer my entire life. Growing up, I always new I could control my dreams and had assumed it was standard practice amongst the majority. The dreams I controlled were typically the flying dreams or the bounding down the road in giant leaps type dreams. Although I recall there being several instances where I had attempted to control a dream's outcome only to find the "dream" to be more powerful and I, in which case I had to submit and follow as it may. Has anyone experienced the uncontrollable lucid dream?

DNA -

Yes, I agree that sharing on this forum encourages all to become more dream-aware. Let's keep this thread going!

Pablo ... DUDE!!! You Rock, Man!!! Congrats on your fully conscious lucid dream!!

Whoa - you are now a certified a lucid-astronaut!!!!

I guess your experience can be classified as "astral-projection." Awesome!!!

Let the lucid adventures continue to ROLL ...

Hello,

thanks hartreefoch for answering my questions. I haven't got yet to the section on problem solving and how you can use image streaming for such endeavours but I presume that this is one of its main uses..

With regards to lucid dreams, as you say, they are awesome- I mean absolutely beyond imagination. During my day though I have that many things to do that I only probably stop myself every now and then to ask myself if I am dreaming. I think that I must work out a system so that I get to ask myself if I am dreamign much more often and see what happens.

It is I suppose just a question of time.
Best regards
Dean

Hello,
It is me again,

just to mention that since I have been writing on the forum- i have noticed that my dreams have become much sharper and easier to remember. I am remembering more of my dreams- a precursor of lucid dreams? You never know I could justnearly be there!!!

Best regards,
DNA

Hi I am very much interested in lucid dreaming also. I was wondering if you guys have any more tips on how to have a lucid dream, like constantly asking if I am dreaming. Thanks

^_^ Peacefulmind

If one wants to learn to learn about O B E
there is some good books on this subject.

I would recommend Adventures Beyond
The Body by William Buhlman. It is a
great book.
Gabby

Hello,

I know of several methods and have read the word of Stephen LeBerge.
There is the method of reveiwing your dreams for objects that frequently appear and deciding that the next time you see the object you will be dreaming.

There are several others. I found a lot of success with meditating for an hour early morning and then letting myself drop off to sleep. This produced most of my lucid dreams.

The method though that we have discussed here i think is brilliant- although I think it would be more useful to actually count through the day how many times you have asked yourself if you are dreaming to make yourself do it more often.

It is like meditating- you drift offf into real life or daydreaming and forget about the idea so any means to bring yourself back to the all important question the better.

Since I have been image streaming I find that my dreams are becoming 100% sharper in quality.

Best regards,
Dean

I can second the thought about investing in a voice recorder for dream recording; I never could be bothered writing things down in the night but the voice method is excellent and doesn't wake you up too much. In the morning I may not remember whether I've recorded something or not till I turn on the recorder.

Does the paraliminal Dream play help with having one experience lucid dreams?

Thanks.

Dorian

Is anyone else having weird dreams all of a sudden. Since I went through the genius code, a few weeks ago, I have been having weird dreams from time to time. Unfortunately, they are not lucid dreams as yet. I am just starting out trying to remember my dreams, by making the intention to do so before I go to bed. I am still trying to figure out what all these images mean.

Everything seems chaotic at best and I am not sure what my mind is trying to tell me. The weird thing is I either have perfect recollection of my dreams, or I cannot remember anything at all. When I declare a purpose for my dreams on a particular night, so far my experience has been that I either do not have any dreams or I do not remember anything. If I just tell myself that I am going to remember my dreams, then I usually have one of these weird dreams, but have no idea what it means.

Is anyone here good at dream interpretation? I must warn you though, the dream is a bit stupid, weird and what seem to be random events.

MarkF

The Paraliminal Dream Play session B, can you help you to have lucid dreams. I found Paraliminal memory supercharger worked well too.

Don't worry too much about decoding dreams. Just record them. Concentrate on decoding your image streams. Dreams are often the mind still working on stuff that you been processing and learning during the day. It works through any emotional issues that you may not be facing during your waking state and therefore can be creating confusing dreams.

Alex

I have not acctually had a lucid dream but i remeber i had one a long time ago when i was little by a fluke but woke up like 4 seconds in to it because i was scared.

However, if you ever are wandering through your thoughts before you fall asleep. Sometimes you catch yourself almost falling asleep and wake up again. Well one time when i did this and eventually fell assleep later i remebered all my dreams the next morning it was awsome. That may help with lucid dreams.