Posted By: Cremio Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/08/03 11:16 AM
I've been Image Streaming for about 3 weeks now - 20-30 minutes every day - and I have a question. When I started I learned that I did not have to "ask a question" prior to Image Streaming, but I cant find my sources anymore.
I've bought "The Einstein Factor" and it does not say whether I have to begin with a question or not, so my question is: "Asking yourself a question." necessary or not? Why is it necessary, I am sure that I read - maybe on the forum - that I only had to lie back and let images come to me.
And why Christ's sake has Wenger never written anything about whether it is necessary or not - I really irritates me. Sorry for my language, but maybe I have been doing it wrong for the last 3 weeks and therefore I must be stupid!

Can't you Image Streaming just hoping that your IQ will increase?
I'm still waiting the results, but if I do the math I have increased my IQ with approximately 6-7 IQ-points...
http://www.winwenger.com/imstream.htm

[This message has been edited by Cremio (edited October 09, 2003).]





Posted By: Cremio Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/08/03 04:28 PM
Anyone ?





Posted By: AlexK Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/08/03 04:32 PM
Yes and no,

Yes if you want answers, no if you just want to image stream for the heck of it.

Your call really, although I figure if you're going to image stream may as well hit 2 birds with one stone and get some questions answered which is why I like the HTT.

Alex





Posted By: Cremio Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/09/03 05:43 AM
Oh lucky me! I've been browsing the forum all day searching for an answer. So thank you!

My next question is: Is debriefing after I-S necessary?
Wenger puts it like if you don't debrief you will not get the IQ increase...

I hope you can reply soon.





Posted By: AlexK Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/09/03 05:50 AM
Yes, some sort of debriefing is necessary. Otherwise you're only daydreaming.

Alex





Posted By: Cremio Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/09/03 11:43 AM
quote:
Originally posted by AlexK:
Yes, some sort of debriefing is necessary. Otherwise you're only daydreaming.

Alex


Well it's really strange, because I can't find Win Wenger saying it anywhere on winwenger.com or in the "The Einstein Factor". And it really frustrates me. I've downloaded the 19 pages on Image Streaming on his webpage and NOWHERE it says that debriefing is necessary. It sounds like that just I-S'ing for fun is ok (and it will increase your IQ aswell). Then suddenly on one of the last pages he writes "understanding the images" (headline) - but he doesnt say why you have to do it.

He also published a "step-by-step instructions" on his webpage and suddenly asking yourself a question (where did that come from?) and debriefing is mentioned. But in his book "The Einstein Factor" the word debriefing does not appear in the index. Why did he not make a plan to follow (and I am not talking about HTT) Please help, I believe I am going nuts here. Why is it that I've never stumbled upon it before ? I've been delaying my I-S for 2 days now because I'm afraid I've been doing it wrong for 3 weeks as I've used it 20-30 minutes every day. What a waste of time if I've just been daydreaming...

BTW, where or when does the actual IQ increase take place? Is it when debriefing? And can someone tell me where to look and give me some simple instructions? What do I've to do if I want IQ increase (which is what Wenger claims) ??

Thank you, hope you understand my problems






Posted By: Cremio Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/09/03 11:47 AM
I wrote before that: "Wenger puts it like if you don't debrief you will not get the IQ increase... "

But I was wrong, it is Sandy Mills that does it somewhere on the forum. Wenger does not put it like that or does he? And where? I need references...







Posted By: AlexK Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/09/03 11:54 AM
I am not Win Wenger however I can suggest a reason why he never mad a big deal about it.

He assumed that people with do image streaming for a better purpose than just raising IQ points. That is to solve problems and be creative. In fact if you look at Win site it's all about being creative in your thinking.

The forum you're posting on is about the Genius Code course. Our answers stem from that. Yes if you want the benefits like those explored in the genius code then debriefing is important and the Genius Code course provides guidelines how you might like to consider debriefing.

BTW have you ever read your post from a third person point of view? If you don't want to debrief then don't it's your choice. But complaining that Mr Wenger didn't paint the picture with the right colours for you isn't going to help you any.

Alex





Posted By: Cremio Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/09/03 12:12 PM
Well there must be a reason why he writes "A proven New Method for Increasing you Intelligence" on the front cover of his book.

I only wanna now wehether debriefing is necessary for IQ increasing or not.
But please, you wrote: "Yes, some sort of debriefing is necessary. Otherwise you're only daydreaming." Could you please specify?

Yes I wanna be more creative, but my main priority is IQ increasing.

What do you do, Alex? Step-by-step?





Posted By: Cremio Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/09/03 12:22 PM
Please take a look at this man http://www.winwenger.com/imstrmfb.htm

What exactly did he do? There must be various ways?

[This message has been edited by Cremio (edited October 09, 2003).]





Posted By: AlexK Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/09/03 12:23 PM
IS isn't that much different from daydreaming. People do it everyday and an obvious fact if that is all it takes then the IQ's of the world would be pointless measuring.

Now I note an interesting point. You seemed to have thought you were converying your real question through complaining that you want to know whether debriefing is necessary.

Now it appears to me that you posts could have more politely simply have said.

Can someone explain what debriefing is.

You write your image stream down. You use a second method of conveying the images you recived from your image stream. If you write whilst image streaming then you talk about your image stream afterwards,

If you say your image stream to a tape recorder you "listen" to the recording and make notes.

If you had someone recording the image stream for you... you talk it over with them.

If you just image stream and don't do some sort of reflection on it afterwards.... you're just day dreaming.

Alex





Posted By: Cremio Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/09/03 12:37 PM
I think I get the picture now, so just I-S'ing is pointless because it will have no benefits (IQ or creativity). I've got to debrief - and I can make a mindmap because I use a dictaphone. I've to use half the time I used on my I-S'ing.

What do you do Alex?

I appreciate your response, thank you.







Posted By: Cremio Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/09/03 12:41 PM
Btw, why should anyone then I-S for just "the heck of it" ?





Posted By: Sandy Millies Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/09/03 01:38 PM
Cremio,

Win Wenger discovered that most of the brain works in sensory images, and therefore most of our intelligence works in sensory images. These images are going on all the time, most of us just never pay attention to them. That is what Image Streaming is all about. These images can hold all sorts of insight and meaning and answers, if we pay attention and respond to them.

Itís an important first step to begin to notice these images, however, as Alex said when you simply notice them itís a lot like day-dreaming. The next step is to respond in some way. Speaking your Image Stream out loud is a way of responding to the details and therefore reinforce your perception of the images.

In the Genius Code Course, Win Wenger emphasizes the need for speaking your Image Stream out loud. Why? Because, hearing your own voice gives you instant and automatic feedback, which in turn guides you to discover more detail, and lead you to the significance of the experience. Remember, most of our brain works in images, but our conscious mind works in words. Speaking your images out loud connects and supports both of these parts of the brain, essential if you want to develop your conscious awareness of the messages (image, sensory details) your brain is expressing all the time.

The main thing is to relax. You havenít wasted time by Image Streaming without speaking aloud, why not decide to start from here on out? Further, by recording your descriptions into a tape recorder you can go back and explore your perceptions even more.

[This message has been edited by Sandy Millies (edited October 09, 2003).]





Posted By: Cremio Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/09/03 02:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Sandy Millies:
Cremio,

Win Wenger discovered that most of the brain works in sensory images, and therefore most of our intelligence works in sensory images. These images are going on all the time, most of us just never pay attention to them. That is what Image Streaming is all about. These images can hold all sorts of insight and meaning and answers, if we pay attention and respond to them.

Itís an important first step to begin to notice these images, however, as Alex said when you simply notice them itís a lot like day-dreaming. The next step is to respond in some way. Speaking your Image Stream out loud is a way of responding to the details and therefore reinforce your perception of the images.

In the Genius Code Course, Win Wenger emphasizes the need for speaking your Image Stream out loud. Why? Because, hearing your own voice gives you instant and automatic feedback, which in turn guides you to discover more detail, and lead you to the significance of the experience. Remember, most of our brain works in images, but our conscious mind works in words. Speaking your images out loud connects and supports both of these parts of the brain, essential if you want to develop your conscious awareness of the messages (image, sensory details) your brain is expressing all the time.

The main thing is to relax. You havenít wasted time by Image Streaming without speaking aloud, why not decide to start from here on out? Further, by recording your descriptions into a tape recorder you can go back and explore your perceptions even more.

[This message has been edited by Sandy Millies (edited October 09, 2003).]


I've been speaking them out loud all the time, maybe that is why I could not comprehend what Alex meant. I just assumed that when talking about I-S then the talking out loud is automatically integrated. Or am I wrong ?

My problem/question is: do I have to go further than I-S'ing and talking-out-loud to get IQ increase? Alex said that some sort of debriefing is necessary... Or did you think that I was only having images without talking-out-loud?
That is what I don't understand.

[This message has been edited by Cremio (edited October 09, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by Cremio (edited October 09, 2003).]





Posted By: Sandy Millies Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/09/03 02:55 PM
You're doing it right! Absolutely by Image Streaming you can increase your creativity and intuition and intelligence. No one can tell you the exact point when your IQ increases if that's what concerns you the most. Just begin to notice differences in your awareness, ability to problem solve, be creative, etc. Sometimes it may be very subtle.

Just decide what you want. If you are looking for an answer, you need to pose a question.

[This message has been edited by Sandy Millies (edited October 09, 2003).]





Posted By: Cremio Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/09/03 07:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Sandy Millies:
You're doing it right! Absolutely by Image Streaming you can increase your creativity and intuition and intelligence. No one can tell you the exact point when your IQ increases if that's what concerns you the most. Just begin to notice differences in your awareness, ability to problem solve, be creative, etc. Sometimes it may be very subtle.

Just decide what you want. If you are looking for an answer, you need to pose a question.

[This message has been edited by Sandy Millies (edited October 09, 2003).]


Well ok, but now I have found a quotation by Win Wenger (The step-by-step): "Then by interpreting and integrating such image-response data with our conscious thoughts, we build balance, improve our intellectual and observational strengths, and tap into creative problem-solving."

And what about this claim: "25 hours of Image-Streaming increases intelligence at an average rate of 20 "I.Q." points." <-- is debriefing included here ?

I hope you understand my concerns because I must be missing something... please help

[This message has been edited by Cremio (edited October 09, 2003).]





Posted By: Cremio Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/09/03 07:21 PM
And to Alex:

Did you misunderstand me when I was talking about Image Streaming? Did you think that I was only having them inside my head without talking them out loud?





Posted By: AlexK Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/09/03 07:38 PM
Nope, debriefing comes after image streaming out loud. It's where you uncover the significance of what you image streamed.

Like I said if you don't want to ask questions or debrief that's up to you.

Of course if I were in your shoes I'd be posing the question "is it better for me to debrief my image stream" and running an image stream on that.

Have fun
Alex





Posted By: Cremio Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/09/03 08:04 PM
Ok, but is debriefing necessary in relation to this quotation "25 hours of Image-Streaming increases intelligence at an average rate of 20 "I.Q." points."

Please just answer this simple question - yes or no. Thank you.

[This message has been edited by Cremio (edited October 09, 2003).]





Posted By: AlexK Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/09/03 08:17 PM
For you? As a matter of fact the answer is yes or no.

How should I know? Run an image stream and find out what would work better for you. That isn't my or anyone elses responsability. It's your mind it knows the answer. So run an image stream for all you know you may find a way of pushing up the IQ even faster than that. So ask your image stream and then follow that advice.

Alex





Posted By: Cremio Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/09/03 08:29 PM
Thank you!

Slowly I begin to believe that you dont bother about IQ or tests. I wonder why.

[This message has been edited by Cremio (edited October 09, 2003).]





Posted By: AlexK Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/09/03 08:32 PM
Numbers do not intelligence make. It's how you use the gears between the ears that counts.

Alex





Posted By: babayada Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/10/03 05:05 AM
One thing I have found annoying about speaking out loud during image streaming is that either I have to slow down the images, or that I cannot really describe what I am seeing because by the time I have started describing one thing, it has already turned into something else.

For instance, if I am seeing a triangle or pyramid, the words I used to describe them (aside from the most simple or broad terms) will start to bring in other, more foreign feeling images. That is, what is going on definitely isn't my verbal description of it. I can really see how, as in art classes, the "idea" of something interferes with our perception of the "actual" thing. When drawing a cup you can either draw the cup as it is (essentially a bunch of abstract shapes) or draw your idea of a cup.

Having to verbalize feels like mental constipation. The part that is generating the images is zooming along and doesn't want to slow down for the verbal descriptions.

I have always thought that verbalizing your image stream aloud was supposed to create some link between the visual and linguistic/auditory parts of the brain. If it is just for reinforcement, then I can do that with my desire to see what I am seeing, because it has a very different quality than simply my everyday semi-conscious image stream. It is much more intense ... especially if I use the photosonix (L/S machine).

Any thoughts?






Posted By: AlexK Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/10/03 06:20 AM
The reason for image streaming out loud is exactly for the reason you decribe; it brings up more images. Yes it does provide a verbal connection to the visual. Talk faster. Many have the reverse complaint that they have nothing to describe.

As I said before it depends on what you want. And if you don't describe it out loud don't expect to remember it in detail afterwards. We have the same problem with out dreams and they are passing visual imagary for the most part.

Alex





Posted By: babayada Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/11/03 11:40 AM
I'd have to talk really, really fast. We're talking faster than an oily used car salesman, here. Faster than an auctioneer.

Having it more firmly in your memory via verbalizing makes a lot of sense. I did notice that I had more of a tendency to remember that which I verbalized.

I do not doubt the benefits of verbalizing what is going on. It just sucks because it is particularly hard for me. It just doesn't feel right. It feels like I'm gumming up the works, if that makes any sense.

What I might try to do is write instead of speak, I believe I could do that. Afterwards I could make a run through and then verbalize what I saw to the best of my ability.

You know ... it just now occurrs to me, I have had this same problem in writing fiction. There is language and style and the direction it wants to go in (some styles lead directly to certain kinds of images and feelings) and then there are images and feelings and the stories they tell ... or the scenarios they generate. Often they are divergent (for me).

When writing poetry I typically have a feeling and/or images and have to wait for the right words. Sometimes I'll write down a phrase or sentence and go, no ... that's not it. I then have to wait ... eventually the words come. Sometimes it's quick and clear, like a cut diamond ... and other times it's like things growing up from under a swamp ... more organic and meaty than intellectual.

I am beginning to see here that there are variations on this method that might lend themselves better to personal tastes. I don't know if they'll lead to the same results ... but it may be that people in the tradition of poetry have been doing this a lot longer. Hurm. Maybe it isn't so much about technique as it is process.






Posted By: AlexK Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/11/03 11:47 AM
You can see it as hard or you can see it as a challenge (I prefer the latter myself )

It has it's rewards.

Alex





Posted By: bolaughlin Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/14/03 10:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by babayada:
I'd have to talk really, really fast. We're talking faster than an oily used car salesman, here. Faster than an auctioneer.

Having it more firmly in your memory via verbalizing makes a lot of sense. I did notice that I had more of a tendency to remember that which I verbalized.

I do not doubt the benefits of verbalizing what is going on. It just sucks because it is particularly hard for me. It just doesn't feel right. It feels like I'm gumming up the works, if that makes any sense.



I definitely get your "gumming up the works" comment. For a while, I felt like my descriptions were, in a sense, leading the images. That is, an image would appear, and I would attempt to "identify it". Something blue and shimmering would appear and I would say, "Water". Well, maybe water. Maybe just describe it as "blue and shimmering"; maybe it was turning into something else before I fixated on the (conscious) water idea.

For me, the point of speaking out loud during ISing is to help build or reinforce a bridge between the IS and your conscious mind. I think "bridge" is WW's term for it.

The bridge analogy is limited. Another part of the equation has to do with how much you can cart from the IS to your conscious mind. The bridge analogy doesn't really help here. "Pipe" might be better. I think part of the issue is "how big" is the pipe. ie, how much can you remember? Think of the last time you ISed. Surely, you could remember and reflect on the last two seconds of the IS without speaking anything out loud. What about the last 30 seconds? the last minute? and so on.

It's a matter of practice.

The advantage to not speaking (if you can stay awake) is that you can recall the actual images from the stream, which are likely much richer than the verbal summary.

Just my $.02.

--Brian






Posted By: mgrego2 Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/15/03 02:19 AM
quote:
Originally posted by bolaughlin:

The advantage to not speaking (if you can stay awake) is that you can recall the actual images from the stream, which are likely much richer than the verbal summary.

Just my $.02.

--Brian



That's interesting. I've found that when I record the IS (vs. just speaking aloud), I have a vivid recall of the IS, even a month later. I never listen to the recordings but it seems to offer another dimension. They eventually fade but not nearly as quickly as I would expect.

Unfortunately, the program I used to use was offered by Iomega and does not work with Win2K. Anyone know of a freeware voice recorder that does?





Posted By: AlexK Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/15/03 06:27 AM
I find an excellent place to start my search for software is www.moochers.com and www.nonags.com legally free and usually small to focus on doing just the thing that you download it for. I found some really useful software there.

Alex





Posted By: bolaughlin Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS - 10/16/03 06:21 AM
I get most of my software from the open source world; much of what is available is written in Java, thus, runs on Windows.

Good sources include www.freshmeat.net and www.sourceforge.com

--Brian





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