Some more things I have found out with NB, though I have not yet been able to clarify them enough for me. So I decided to post in the Forum. The original Progress with NB -thread is already quite long, so I thought better to start a new one.
A belief that is so obvious it's sort of "hidden in the open": I'm doing my change work with the motivation "When I do this just one thing, everything will be all right." This belief is in the background every time I do change work. I'm not pleased to find it. Actually I'm ashamed to find such a belief.
But anyway, What "everything" exactly? What would be a specific example of "everything"? How exactly "all right"? How do I know this "one thing" will be enough? What is the ideal state the belief is referring to? Lots of more questions. ...
Grant said that I was starting to notce hidden stop signs. It seems I'm starting to notice hidden motivations too.
There a re two more beliefs I found, but I gotta go now. This one was the most important one.
[He].2s2.2p4
The other two beleifs/processes (or hidden motivations) I noticed are:
1) If someone else has a problem, I immediately put all my wants aside. I actually feel relief when putting them aside. I concentrate totally to the other's problem. I try to find solutions even if it is utterly ridiculous. This alla happens automatcally, before i have a chance to think about it. The want to help the other person is there immediately, and that I can notice. Also that I have put ev everything concenrning my wants aside.
2) My future does not include me. That is, there are no images of me in my future. My future is existing just for the others. If I put an image of me in my future, it causes quite a lot of sress, and the image soon vanishes.
These two processes have survived 11 years of NLP, Richard Bandler and what else. So they must be something really deeply rooted. I see some kind of pattern forming, There is something behind these things. Though I cannot yet see what would be the underlying belief.
[He].2s2.2p4
First belief, you're questioning it, what it means...sounds a bit like you're experiencing fragmentation, one part split off from another...if you interpreted the belief from the part and context it came from it would probably make sense. Fragmentation causes wrong contexts to be used to interpret things from other parts.
For fragmentation, I found listening to music-only version of boundless renewal paraliminal many, many times one after the other, that is after listening to the paraliminal at least a few times.
The other 2 belief processes...
A book I suggest reading called 'Self-love' by Robert H. Schuller. It's a Christian book,and has a lot of insight on healthy self-love. It's been in print since 1969.
Healthy self-love is closer to feeling good because you're needed even better wanted.
Everybody is needed and wanted.
Watch the belief that they must be deep rooted. Consider, it can be they are beliefs to satisfy your overall belief that something is wrong.
Time I think you move on to Loving What is by Byron Katie and actually do the work on your beliefs as they come up.
Alex
Hi,
And thanks for responses. I had difficulties in answering in the responses, as I have let you both know.
********************
Now I know more.
The thing goes even deeper.
*I have given and will give the control over my whole life to anyone who might want to take it.*
I have found some internal representations that hold some of the control.
Of course I understant that the internal representations are made by me and can be controlled by me, but right now I am just finding these things out. The structure of the belief seems amazing. How much I'm trying to change me, I cannot change these underlying things unless I take them as a part of the whole.
These things seem to manifest themselves as if I did not feel any love, or could not give any love (see for example the thread Giving love in the SFQ forum.). BUT. Love is only a side issue in my case as I have said before. It may be difficult to understand for anyone else, but everyone has their own way in self-development. I have mine.
I read yesterday my first writings of the Boudless renewal course (2/2006). The writings concerned things like "What would it be like to be me? What is me? When can I be a whole human being? I seem to be only haf a human being. Two halves. etc." Now I'm pondering the same questions with more emphasis on existence. Did a couple of reflection exercises also. Interesting to see what will happen.
[He].2s2.2p4
p.s. Grant and Alex, you may now understand why I had difficulties to answer you. If I was on the edge of finding out this belief, I was very sensitive of it. You both qualify as an "anyone" in my belief. I was trying to do exactly what you suggested. Also there was the unconscious want _not_ to obey. Thus I was not able to act.
Something else I have to thank the Boundless renewal course for:
Drawing.
I took it as a hobby after doing the course. Bernie Saunders suggested to take any creative hobby, so my OTC mind obeyed and I found myself in a store buying the best colours and paper I could find, feeling like an excited 5-year-old.
Since then drawing has helped me in the most difficult problems. I'm not drawing anything fancy or even anything that resembles the problem. Just apples, buildings, ...anything I see. During the most difficult times I can always notice progress after drawing. If I don't draw for 2 weeks, I can feel that also. Bad feelings seem to gather in me. A couple of drawings help.
Now, OK, I may sound like an idiot, I know. But this hobby seems to put me into a different kind of trance, not like with any self-hypnosis, paraliminal or other products. It's a unique feeling. And I enjoy it.
[He].2s2.2p4
I got hold of a belief that might lurk behind all this...
Something like" everything I want is bad just because it is me who wants it and I should not want anything, because... ... I have to ... ...what...?." The rest is not clear yet.
This is still a bit hazy, I don't know where to go from here... But, again, I decided to write about it in the forum, because usually things get clearer when I have written about them here in the open. it's not enough to write just for myself.
expecting exciting times....
[He].2s2.2p4
This all reminds me of the metafore "Changin beliefs is like making tiger stew" ;-)
Making the stew is the easy part. But first you have to catch the tiger. ;-E]
If this indeed is the core belief behind all, I have done a huge amount of work finding it. The catch of course was, I have been changing the very strategy which I have used to change itself. it's not an easy paradox to solve when you are doing the work yourself, even with the help of paraliminals and other self-help products.
On the other hand I can consider myself privileged, having learned so much during this journey. Like Andrew Wiley had to develop lots of new mathematics while proving Fermat's theorem. I have developed my skills and sensory acuity.
[He].2s2.2p4
Ever have a teacher tell you you didn't deserve something because you cheated? Or because you pulled the cat's fur when you were three you didn't get any dessert?
You may not consciously remember the incident. Not that it matters ... all you need to know is you are dealing with a personal belief "I do not deserve."
Like all things there are two sides to the coin... you may not deserve the good... but you don't deserve the bad either.
Alex
I can remember my mother saying to me "try to behave!". The English translation does not carry all side meanings, a more proper translation would be "be now a human being!", because that's how it's said in Finnish.
You see the presupposition in my mother's words? yeah, the presupposition was "I am not a human being". At least that's the meaning I understood from her words, my OTC mind tells me. Pretty tough for a 3-year old to find out! Of course I believed her. Who wouldn't?
Oh well, however nice it would be to dog up these old things, I wouldn't like to go further.
Instead I would like to concentrate on my new findings, I finally found out there is one thing I sincerely and truly want in my future. It's a big thing, even huge, it's difficult to imagine a larger thing for a person to want. But it seems to be something that I want deep inside my heart and soul.
I've been using this thing I want as a leverage in negotiating wiht my OTC mind: When I notice a behaviour I consider not pleasant or not useful I ask my OTC mind "Is this thing really something you would like to do to reach your big goal? Will this thing help in making the goal come true?". To put is shortly, this kind of reasoning seems to be effective. My mind immediately starts to find new ways.
I'm just wondering why I did not use this earlier. Maybe it wouldn't have been effective. Now it is.
[He].2s2.2p4
Kids of all ages get similar mixed messages. Parents will say you're a bad boy when they mean the behaviour is bad.
No one is perfect an no one had a perfect up bringing. The past is good to know but of no use to dwell on if it doesn't advance our interest in the now or future. It wasn't true in the past... it's not true now and it's not true for the future that you are not a human being. It's just the way things are expressed. We take the language literally and yet our communication via words in chats and forums we can see it's easy to be misunderstood.
Alex
Yeah, tehy sure do. But this kind of things are no longer a problem for me. I dwelled on such problems for a long time until i realized tehy are only side issues. They mean nothing. Nothing can be gained by trying to solve them. Abso-lutely noth-ing. Nothing.
Much more important is what is happening in my internal world. The processes I'm runnung 24/7 inside my head without knowing it. Beliefs are welded in my system with these processes. Unlearning these things is important for my self-development. That's what I'm doing now.
Tiger, just wait!
[He].2s2.2p4
Quote:
Tiger, just wait!
Why? Why wait? Why not now? You realise much of what you are saying is going to keep you there?
Quote:
Beliefs are welded in my system
That's an affirmation.
Quote:
Unlearning these things is important for my self-development.
if you say so ... and what if having choices is more powerful. choice between old beliefs and new ones. Doesn't that statement become a limiting belief?
Alex
Hi Alex,
I have not answered to you because I felt I had nothing to say.
Instead, this came out:
How to change somethign very general in the unconscious processing of information?
There is something strange (out-of-place) happening in my system when I process information with internal images and sounds. I can't be very specific, because I don't know exactly what happens. What I know is the following:
When I start to process information from an image into internal dialogue, thigs become difficult. The image becomes very hazy and words stop flowing. <Yikes!> I have lately made this observation in several occasions, so I dare to say it in the open. There is probably something happening in between starting to form internal dialogue and the image becoming hazy. What?
The thing is, this phenomenon is not tangible and it's very widely applied in my unconscious processing.
I know something like it might exists, because I have seen, heard and felt it's consequences. Only just lately I have noticed enough to be able to think it consciously and understand it is something separate that can be changed.
Pardon me if this whole thing sounds like it's something I have invented just to amuse my conscious mind. Coming out of the blue it mihgt look like that. But it is not.
Now that I think about it, the important question is not how to change it. The question is more like "How can I gather enought information to change this thing? What are the specific circumstances when this all happens? How can I bypass the protective barriers in my OTC mind without being harmed by the things the OTC mind is protecting me from? What will be the result after the change?" Something like that. I'll find answers to those questions sooner or later.
[He].2s2.2p4
P.s. I'm asking the questions in this post mainly from myself ;-)
Genius Code... Have you played with Image Streaming?
Alex
Hi Alex,
Yes Image streaming would seem the logical solution if I would want to explore what happens in between seeing internal images and forming internal dialogue.
But the human mind does not always follow logic. I feel image streaming would be too strong for me. I couldn't handle it. I mean if I saw this specific internal image, it would free so much energy that it would overwhelm me. I don't know what kind of energy.
Right now I feel I better not use any methods that would speed up what's happening to me. I'm just sitting back and taking it easy. Though, if anyone comes up with good questions, I welcome them!
[He].2s2.2p4