Hey..

I'm a beginner in the seduction zone, and have a big fear of approaching girls. Just the thought about going over and talk to a girl scares me.. Don't feel good about doing it. It feels like something you just don't do if you see beautiful girl. You just don't go over and talk to her..

I have a few years ago tried in the disco at nights (a few nights) to go over to a girl and ask her to dance. Almost everyone rejected me, and it felt so hart. I was very wounded when I came home from that. I think I took it very personally.. But I now that I'm good looking, so it can not be that problem..

But now it seems like I'm scared just to say hi to any girl in a disco and something like that. Just stands there with my drink or beer and looking at all these nice chicks. Ok, if a chick approach me, then I try to push myself talking to her, but I never manage that.

I have tried Speed Seduction course, but that don't help me with that problem, with my fear. I have tried the Palo Alto from Speed Seduction, but I can't get it to work. There you can imagine something, and then the fear will be gone. But I can not get it to work. I'm still scared.. I have tried the equalizer from Ross Jeffries in a whole month. Heard it everyday, but still I don't dare to talk to any women. I have tried the MLF da Babe from Extreme mind, but that has also not helped me. Has also read David D'Angelo, also not helped me...

I'm really really frustrated right now, that I can't go over to talk to any woman, and want to really really doing it.. Just to learn going over to any woman and having a conversation is my goal.. All that ross jeffries "lines to say" etc. can wait. It's my ability to go over and just have a normal nice conversation is my goal. Never to be afraid going over and talk to a beautiful woman..

And I want to work this problem out with help on this forum. And on this forum. Here must be some good tools that can Help me. I have a lot of paraliminals, Natural Brilliance and Resiliency. I have used the paraliminals a little, but not much. Maybe I should use them a little more??

What would work?

Any good help suggestions on what to help me with this, and which paraliminal I should start with? Or with anything else..
And please, let the suggestions be helpful ones...

And things like "wait wait, and the right one will show herself in your life" is not what I'm looking for. I really really want to overcome that fear..

To have something that makes me take the action..

Kim.

Do you have trouble speaking with guys? Just chatting with others, strangers to you?

If you don't ask yourself what are you thinking differently when you see a girl and what you usually say to guys? Hi, the music's loud, gee the drinks are expensive? That's a cool band? Girls talk about that stuff too. If you're expecting to get more out of a chat you need to face up to conversations that get no where except perhaps discover what girls like to talk about. Handy tools.

One girl, one rejection isn't something to lose heart over. If just said get lost at the first thing you said to her... well not exactly a nice person and not someone most people would like as a friend. People are worth getting to know based on their reaction to you. If you say hi, what do you think of the band and they say something to the effect of telling you to take a hike. Then you've just eliminated one person in a crowded room that isn't going to make a great friend in the long run.

When the Paraliminals become available again I suggest you look at Anxiety Free and Sales Leap. Anxiety free will help you with the fear you have of approaching someone for a chat. Sales Leap will give you the confidents to say the right thing to get confeversations going.

Mean while. Ask yourself what really is the difference with just talking to a guy or a gal?

Alex

[This message has been edited by Alex K. Viefhaus (edited August 11, 2004).]

Hello NokPhill,

If I were you I would get out their in the field and take dancing lessons. Go to lessons where you don't need a partner. Where they use a rotation system so you get to dance with every girl in the place. One of the things that many girls like the most is a man that can dance. Just feel the fear and do it. You will get over it quickly. You will tread on toes at first, but you may find many of the girls will just go out of their way to help you. Then when you start to get good your confidence will just go through the roof, you will become a goto person that will be good for your charisma so the girls will come to you for instruction and will virtually never reject you if you ask any of them to practise. Try starting with ceroc dancing. It is popular and you can dance that style to most modern music. And you get to hold the girls, spin them, dip them and all sorts of other wonderful things that they tend to like. Your social life could improve too. You can listen to tapes and CD's all day and all night and they might help but you have to get out their in the field. So give it a go and see what happens.

Hi

As you state yourself, it's the fear that's stopping you. I would recommend that you try EFT to reduce/get rid of the fear. Go to: www.emofree.com

Love and light

John

Hi NokPhil
I don't seem to want to seem harsh, but you do have to work at this. Some of the information that you have is excellent. But you have to work it, the courses are not a 'talisman' that do it for you.
To overcome initial fears try practising by maintaining eye contact with female staff in shop,offices etc;. Don't go into a conversation with the attitude of wanting something from the woman. Aim at making them feel good, try to leave them with a smile on their face

Good Luck

Nick

NokPhill

I am almost certain that you have mental block there which can be identified and
removed quickly and it does not cost much.

I suggest to read this website and email Dr.
Mace. He can help you with a phone session.

Cheers, http://members.iinet.net.au/~identiks/index.htm

[This message has been edited by Frodo02 (edited August 27, 2004).]

The Voice of Knowledge by Don Miguel Ruiz for a good explanation of the ease at which we can drop the false programming we have adopted.

[This message has been edited by SteveBCA (edited April 28, 2006).]

Kim,

Maybe my thoughts will add something to already fine posts.

I'm the process of defining what kind of relationship I want with a lady.

What are your feelings around seduction?

What is your intention? What are your feelings around your intention?

How would you feel if a girl seduce you only to get what she wanted and your needs weren't met?

On what would it take for you to take action, I see you already doing that. So what would it take for you to take your next step? When you are ready, you will take it.

I currently experiencing exactly what I created to experience with the ladies.

Best
Richard

Heh, you're in the same boat as me; well, where I was not long ago.. Here's what I did: First, start out simple. When you've got a chance, go out to the mall, a busy street, a department store, etc. anywhere where there'll be lots of women of your type AND is NOT a bar/club/party. Seek out any women you're interested in, preferably ones that are alone and especially not with another man and open to her by saying any of the following:

- "Hi."
- "Do you have the time?"
- "Do you know how to get to ______?"
- (Or make your own opener of this nature.)

Keep doing this until you feel comfortable approaching. You may need to approach 10, 25, 100, or more to be comfortable; don't set any limits for yourself.

Even after you feel you've gotten comfortable approaching, you can still use this on a couple of women to "warm-up".

That's the extent of the help I can give you. On the seducing part, well, that's the next step and I'm still working on it. I have a few resources that might help you out, please leave an email addr if you're interested.

Hi Kim,

The first thing that I see here is that you are focused on "seduction." The word itself has some negatives attached to it. First off, when you "seduce" someone to do something, you are working on manipulating them into something that they may not want to do. If you have high morals, this just won't work. Check out the definition of the word seduction -

\Se*duc*tion\, n. [L. seduction: cf. F. s['e]duction. See Seduce.] 1. The act of seducing; enticement to wrong doing; specifically, the offense of inducing a woman to consent to unlawful sexual intercourse, by enticements which overcome her scruples; the wrong or crime of persuading a woman to surrender her chastity.

Some of the people that you have listed as reading can and will help you, and they DO NOT advocate seduction, but do advocate personal change.

Work on the inner game is very important here. Like anything that you learn, there will be some who pick up the skills quickly, and others who take a little longer. First, don't beat yourself up because you do not have the ability to walk up to a beautiful woman and five minutes later have her name and phone number. . . but you CAN learn these skills and the confidence that goes along with it.

One of the posts stated that you should start slowly, with "Hi," a great place to start. Try going to places where women work, like a mall, walk into a store and just say "Hi" to the clerk. She is being paid to be nice, so your personal risk is small, and the reward for doing so is that you can come face to face with your fear, and survive anyway. If she engages you in conversation, all the better, use it as a learning experience, and the next time will be easier.

Will you screw up a few times. . .Sure, but we all do, so you are not alone.

Quote:
"It feels like something you just don't do if you see beautiful girl. You just don't go over and talk to her.."

This statement is really holding you back. I, and many guys I know do this all the time, and don't think anything about it. . .why? Were we born this way? In my case no, I had to learn it, but it turned into a lot of fun.

Here is a frame of mind for you when you want to talk to a woman. "I just want to make her smile." If you make this your frame instead of "How do I seduce her?", talking suddenly becomes easier, because the pressure is off.

Also, talk to all women. Young, old, ugly, beautiful . . . don't single out just a select group to talk to, talk to them all. Skill is skill, and you only get it by practice, patience and the occasional so called failure.

Sorry this is so long, but this is a personal favorite area of mine and I could go on and on . .Hope it helps. . .

Dan

Hey, NokPhill

Alex is right on the money about the anxiety and sales Paraliminals. That's the first thing that came to my mind, as well. However, I have to say that I was especially excited by 4space's suggestion! Dancing lessons!

I realize you can already find your way around the dance floor, but I'm talking skill, here. There's a big difference between casual hip movement and real live-wire, spirit-inspiring, hard-driving, highly skillful dance. When a woman sees a man who exhibits an advanced degree of artistic, physical competence, she will automatically gravitate to him. It's just a given. Just like musicians getting girls, men who dance VERY WELL get girls, too.

In my opinion, it's also important to take the kind of dancing lessons that require you to physically hold another student/partner, such as ballroom or even Latin dancing. If you just go out and learn the coolest dance steps, there is no real interaction required between the students. But when you have to hold your partner, this allows you to get used to getting up close with a girl, and coordinating your moves with hers, in unison. And you're more apt to meet and make a female friend this way, who might possibly like you for more than just a friend, because she has been given the opportunity to get to know you, by dancing with you in a dance class.

Let me tell you, NokPhill, from a woman's experience, what I've seen. When I've been to dance clubs, believe it or not, even the "good-looking" guys were usually somewhat inhibited about asking a girl to dance. I could tell that they were nervous, by the way they would ask me, and how they would react if I said "no thank you, not right now". But then there were the shorter, average to homely looking ones who would be beaming and bursting with confidence and a great sense of humor, and just would NOT let me alone! No matter how fervent my "no" was! So I would usually give in, and have a great time with them.

I don't know what you look like, but it really doesn't matter that much, as long as you make the best of what you have, by accentuating your assets. (Okay, you know what I mean! ) Self-confidence without egotism, and a casual healthy sense of humor are real turn-on's. Build your self-confidence like a body-builder builds his muscles. Use a little exposure therapy, by putting yourself on the front lines and getting turned down so many times, that it doesn't bother you anymore. In fact, be excited about getting rejected, so that you can get to the next one as fast as possible, because the more "no's" you get past, the sooner you'll get to that "yes"! Just like in sales, it's a numbers game.

The best way to start is by role playing or rehearsing. Simply arrange for female relatives or friends, in the spirit of fun, to intentionally turn you down as you pretend to ask them to dance (or go out), so that you will become desensitized to their refusals. Practice on them, because their no's aren't really much of a threat, anyway. Then work your way up to the real thing, and practice, practice, practice.

Okay, I understand there is a stumbling block with conversation. Well, I've been there, I know exactly how it feels. Let me tell you several ways you can cure that problem.

First, if you have the bucks, I would recommend taking the Dale Carnegie Course. I took it back in 1982, and it opened me up, big time. It's hands-on, person-to-person, and group participation, that get those butterflies in your stomach flying in formation. They show you how, and MAKE you learn how to carry on a conversation with others, and speak casually in front of a group, and provide you with lots of practical advice. The thing is, NokPhill, you can learn by studying, you can learn by listening, but nothing beats doing it with expert coaches guiding you, and everyone cheering you on, the whole way. If you can swing it financially, you'll be grateful that you did. It's something you'll never forget and will always appreciate having done. It's also a big plus on a job resume. But if you can't afford it yet, that's okay, because you can always buy the books.

Then, after you get the books, march over to your local Toastmasters Club and join up. Everyone helps and supports each other in their quest for gaining confidence and skill with public speaking, human relations, and personal effectiveness. And it's a great way to MEET WOMEN!

Have you ever heard of Zig Ziglar? I have a tape of his that I've started listening to, called "Success and the Self-Image". He has excellent step-by-step, real-life instructions on what you can actually do that will improve your self-image.

Also, to be perfectly blunt, as a woman I do not wish to hold a conversation with a man who won't talk to me the same way he would with one of his own friends. In other words, I want a guy to be able to still appreciate, yet be able to look past the feminine mystique, and see me as a human being with a mind and as well as a heart, and other things. And whatever you do, please don't try to think up any artificial "pick-up" lines. Just be REAL and as natural as you possibly can. This is why it pays for a man to have female friends, or lots of sisters, so that you are used to seeing them as ordinary people, without the sex part blinding the brain and putting you in a *TILT* mode.

Merlin, who is very wise, said it well: [QUOTE]Here is a frame of mind for you when you want to talk to a woman. "I just want to make her smile." If you make this your frame instead of "How do I seduce her?", talking suddenly becomes easier, because the pressure is off. Also, talk to all women. Young, old, ugly, beautiful... don't single out just a select group to talk to, talk to them all.[QUOTE]

Is that cool, or what?

Oh, one more thing about dancing. Have you ever known anyone who dances skillfully and wholeheartedly, who suffers from depression? There's something almost magical about it. This is the kind of dancing changes a mood, almost instantly and sometimes dramatically. I recall a story that I heard one time, about "The Tarantella Dance". In English, it's translated as "Tarantula Spider". There are several versions, but the one I'm familiar with was when a traveling Gypsy would accidentally be bitten by a poisonous spider, he would dance so feverishly, for so long, that the venom would be eliminated by the body's highly-intensified metabolism and profuse sweating. Likewise, since depression is a mental poison, it only makes sense that dancing with a sense of complete abandon would help to flush it out, and clear the mind for better thinking.

I promise you, when you've learned how to think and speak more clearly on your feet in front of a group, and your body's pumped up with a phenomenal dance workout, you will become one of the most popular guys in town, and never again will you have a problem getting a woman's attention. And while your bar-room buddies are filling themselves with beer and liquor for courage and calling it "fun", you'll be fit as a finely-tuned violin and making music with the women.

IMPORTANT NOTE: I used to be a bartender and club manager for about 18 years, and I learned the hard way that most relationships that begin in nightclub, end in a nightclub. And the cycle is perpetual, because it's "easy-pickin's". Plus most people who frequent such places are alcoholics, or fast on the road to becoming one. My advice here, is to by all means, go there and have fun, and dance to your heart's delight. But keep your "good judge of character" antennas up and exercise restraint, because you want things to be right.

[This message has been edited by SHEANIMA (edited September 13, 2004).]

THANK YOU all for your suggestions.. I have looked through them and they are many.. I have not had the time to try everything yet, but thinking of it...

I have made a little progress last weekend. I have joined a club, a Lair (group of people) who are very much into seduction.
They were under "wingman" at www.fastseduction.com.
They use almost everything on seduction that is out there, like Ross Jeffries etc. And some are really good at it.. Good at opening girls up as an example.. I was out saturday night, early in the afternoon, and had an appointment with the group at a cafe.. I met them, and we found a place to sat down in the cafe and talked about some openingslines and other NLP stuff for seduction... One just left the table, and walked over to 5 girls sitting at another table.. I even dared not to look, it felt embarassing to see him do that.. But hey, he made them all smile*g*.. And he was telling them a "seduction story".. Later on we went to a nightclub, and on the way to it some of the people in the group start picking on girls in the street who we met, telling them "hey, you walk in the wrong direction*s and then start a conversation".. It was very funny. Have never ever seen anything like that. I can't do that yet.. not at all.

Then we got to the nightclub, and I was standing in the bar with some of the other guys. Then a girl walked up to me and standing beside me.. I beside her.. I then relaxed, noticed what was going on, and saw that she has ordered about 5 drinks.. Then I relaxed even more (tried Natural Brilliance).. And did not what to say. Just standing at her side.. Then it struct me, that I could ask her "Are all these drinks for you?".. But I couldnt.. then I relaxed even more. And suddenly I just start talking to her, asking about the drinks for you, and how old people are in this nightclub etc etc.. And we talked for about 5 minutes.. Then she left with her drinks, and said that maybe we can talk later, when the disco beneath the bar starts...

And then the others in the group told me, good going etc.. And I was suprised.. I really did it.

And later a new girl came up to me, standing beside me, and order a drink, and I talked to her too... Just relaxed, finding out what I want to say, relaxed even deeper, and then start talking to her... But only did that 2 times that night. Not much, but a good start I think.. Just going over to a girl am I not ready for yet, or am I? I don't feel that...

One advice I read is going over to a girl in the street and just say hi to them, is very hard to do yet... Often I sit in a bus, and when a girl comes up next to me, and sit down there too, I just can't start a conversation... My looks is quite ok, but still It's very difficult to start a conversation.. Have never tried yet to go up to a girl and start talking to her.

But I'm looking forward to see what will happened next..

By the way, I have listened to New Behavior Generator for some days (don't have anxiety free or Sales Leap) for 1 week before last weekend. After listening to that I feel a little thrive for wanting to talk to a woman. Not much, but I can feel something in me wants to do that.. And so I did last weekend*s.. So I think I will continue to do that..

Kim.

zeus,

This evening, I thought I might email you with a few questions about the EFT info you provided, but I got a message saying that my email could not be delivered to that address (the one that was in your Learning Strategies profile).

So I'll copy & paste my letter I sent to you, here:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear zeus,

Thank you for your reference to www.emofree.com in "Paraliminal Learning, Fear: Talking to girls. What can I do?"

I visited the URL you posted, and found the site VERY interesting. I'd never heard of EFT, so was naturally somewhat skeptical at first, because there's so much silliness out there that I don't buy into. But from what I've learned after spending a good deal of time researching it, pro and con, I think this stuff really works.

Have you used it? If so, I'd be interested in not only the results, but who you contacted for it, how much they charged, if it was in person or over the telephone, or if you took the course and did it yourself. It appears to have unlimited potential, which is what I find fascinating.

I look forward to your reply!

Peace and happiness,
SHEANIMA

[This message has been edited by SHEANIMA (edited September 14, 2004).]

Check out www.emotrance.com also, if you get the chance. Silvia Hartmann, who wrote Adventures in EFT, one of the top celebrated books on EFT, has actually come up with a whole new method, based on a simpler foundation of who we are as Energy beings (even simpler than EFT). And yes, it's called, suprisingly: Emotrance

( read the article named: Why EmoTrance When We've Got EFT?! )

Hoowweever, EFT does work definitely, and you can't go wrong by downloading the free manual from emofree.com by Gary Craig.

[This message has been edited by SteveBCA (edited September 15, 2004).]

Ok some major things has happened these last two weeks... I'm getting pushed out to go over to talk to girls by the club im in.. And miracously my fear of talking to women have been decreased.. But each time it was so damn terrible.. Come on Kim, you can do it etc.. They were pushing me fysically toward a group of women s. My heart was in my throat, pumping like crazy.. But after i Did it, it did not feel that bad at all... Så last time I was in town, last saturday, I just went over to a group of women and started to talk to them.. I also left the cafe table, from where we were sitting, and just walked over to two females, sitting at cafe table som distance away, and started talking to them.. Also when I'm in the street, I say hi to women I meet, it feels uncomfortable, but I still do it.. Some of them turns around and say something like "do I know you". This is really funny, but so hard to do... But my fear has decreased a lot since I started doing it.. But does not feel comfortable yet at all. Still very hard to do.. But I do it.. and that feels so great.. MAYOR change has happend... From not doing anything till doing it.. Now I must just learn to relax and have fun with it.. Maybe install a belief that says "Everything they give me, is just a toy I can play with" or "I only do this to learn to get better to seduce women.. playfully learning what works and what does not work"...or "I will do this so that we can have a great time".

I have got the Anxiety Free tape now, and keeps listening to it.. Don't really know if it helps so much on my anxiety..

By the way SHEANIMA.. You said something like that a man who has confidence keeps on hitting on the girl, even if she rejects him.. That is the most confident man.. But have difficulties finding out what you exactly mean by that.. Do you mean that if he gets a no he shall still continue trying to talk to her.. Because I have approached two woman now.. The one just said almost nothing.. The I tried the thing that "everything she gives me is just a toy I can play with", and I continued to talk to her. .to get her open up, so she would speak.. But she still said thinks like when I asked her "where are you from" she says "everywhere".. Does that really means no, or should I continue to talk to her to make her think otherwise of me? Both women did that when I approached them. The one I met in a bar, the other one someplace else...

Byt the way, that did not bother me at all.. Thought that it was quite funny the way they rejected me..*s

[This message has been edited by NokPhill (edited September 24, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by NokPhill (edited September 24, 2004).]

You said you tried all of these things in the original post, but I think you want one of these products to Zap you like celestial lightening in the first try, and you're suddenly Captain Suave, otherwise you deem the product as worthless. (excuse the exaggeration - now that you're irritated by this, and perked up, read carefully).
The principles that David DeAngelo can't fail if you actually read what he's talking about, and just 'get it' about women. Don't put so much pressure on yourself to be 'one of those guys' who can walk up to an attractive woman right from the get-go. You're making a 'rule' for yourself ( Tony Robbins in Awaken the Giant), that if you can't do 'this' successfully now, than your challenge is 'this or that' and that it's a monumental challenge requiring much conquering of yourself.
Drop that personal rule that you're holding for yourself.

The xtrememind free version of MLF has you visualize with your five senses. I'll bet you are just playing it in the background wanting it to do the work all by itself?? I listen to their products with the attitude that the subliminals and other technology are just the bonus, and I take the visualization very, very seriously. This is what has been producing results for me lately.
Putting yourself in the situation in your imagination, with Feeling, over and over again, and imagining yourself having fun with them, a'la DeAngelo-style, is where the real magic and progress happens.
Neville (someone quoted him at the XtremeMind forum, go read it) says that it's important to imagine in your mind, from your point of view, the reaction of the woman's face to this powerful new behaviour of yours. Imagine another person's reaction to you, and this creates a new version of you, that would have to exist, for that other person to react this way. Read Neville's Power of Awareness for more on this.
The reason why I bought the commercial version of MFL myself, was because the free version tipped me off that the commercial version would have extended visualization of imagining (Neville-style) the reaction of the woman, to my new behavior.. finally.. a product that would guide me through applying the principles in Neville's books that I"ve had on my bookshelf for 6 years. I didn't have enough discipline or trust in myself, to just do it myself, without the help of the CD, but that's ok..,I'm glad someone created a product such as theirs (and I plan on getting LSC's IPM).
Anyway, do the work BOTH, with the club you're involved in, AND on your own in your meditation/visualization sessions in a disciplined and super-regular, committed times.
Do it all.. but allow your subconscious to take these changes on its own time.
Be gentle with yourself.
But I do like your style of putting yourself out there. But take advantage of that experience, and in your meditation time, look back at those real-life rejections (or whatever) and analyze what was running through your mind at those exact times, and examine the outdatedg beliefs that you were holding to cause you to handle yourself in the way you did, etc..
Don't look at my suggestion of 'meditating on beliefs' as some weak esoteric, vague attempt at sounding spiritual in this post, and all.
Mike Pilinski, in his ebook: "Without Embarassment:The Social Coward's Totally Fearless Seduction System." clarifies the importance of daily silence and examining the 'stream of beliefs' that run through your mind regarding women.

[This message has been edited by SteveBCA (edited September 25, 2004).]

No no.. I have really listened to tapes, done visualizations etc.. And nothing has really helped me get over my fear regarding women... Even ebooks like Speed Seductions, Or David D'Angelo.. David D'Angelo is good for getting the right beliefs about to be a perfect dater.. But there is no technique against the fear against woman.. So I don't really feel that is so helpfull at the moment.. About Mike Pillinski.. Have read some of his Ebook, but not all yet.. Maybe there will be some good things in his work too.. But right now at the moment I work in the club, and this has really pulled me forward... Really much.. The group pressure etc. was a perfect help.. Even if it was so hard.. But as I said, it still feels uncomfortable doing it.. But when you do it, it feels great.. Also imagining it on MLF da Babe feels great.. But MLF da Babe has also nothing to work at to be able to go over and talk to woman just like that.. Ok he mention it a few times, that you like going over to talk to a beutifull woman.. But He does not do anything against the first tricker of fear that you get, when see a beautiful woman! When you know you have to go over talking to ther.... How to handle that.. That is difficult. And when you see all the men in a bar.. How many do really dear to approach a beutiful woman.. Most of them just stands still, and hoping that she will go over to him.. Not many men like going over to one.. And that is that fear I have not found any material on that conquers exactly that fear.. Ok, everyone can visualize that they are a perfect seducer, but that has to be stronger than the fear you get when you see a beautiful woman... But still.. Would like to see closer at Mike Pillinski's Ebook..

For dealing with fear I recommend Anxiety Free and the New History Generator Paraliminals.

To overcome fear of talking practice asking help. You break the ice faster by saying something like I really like the music does this band/DJ play here often. Yhis may just get a yes or know response but you could lead it with an open ended question like would you be able to tell me their schelude or where else they play?

The thing is to keep the converstation to something that is happening right now. Like you did with the drinks. Asking where do you live, where are you from, where do you work or what kind of work do you do are all the wrong questions.

Are you from around here, what do you think is the most popular beer sold here, followed by what do you prefer and may I buy you one? These questions are safe topics.

If you turn it around and the girl asked the guy, What kind of car do you drive, where do you work what do you do for a living where do you live... the non conscious mind will send up warning flares as well. you'll think "gold digger where she might just be struggling to start a conversation too.

Use the Anxiety Free Paraliminal, look around your envirionment, notice and make conversation about that. So you'll be saying stuff I like this song, what do you think of it? You have a favourite that they play here?

Alex

I am in the same situation as you but worse. I have very little social experience with men and women. I have nobody to talk with. I have depression, social anxiety, ADD, general anxiety, inadequacy issues, self-image problems, and racial inferiorty issues(real and mental). What other people may not realize, is that after several years of being alone or outside of school, your social skills deteriorate further from lack of experience. People just don’t want to be around you, because you make them feel uncomfortable. I hide it when I am in public though. I project this image of being happy. Tonality and body language are just awful. You don’t have to say anything wrong, it can be as simple as just the way you say it. The majority what you communicate is in the form of body language and how you say it. I have no lair or club to work with. The Houston club was discontinued. I am willing to drive 250 miles to another city, but the Austin club won’t approve me after making a request several weeks ago. I even called the guy on his cell phone and no response and emailed him and 2 others from the club. What am I supposed to do if even the guys in the fastseduction.com lairs, don’t want to hang with me? Which city are you from again? Does anybody in your club know somebody in Houston that can help me? Working on increasing the social circle from just me to 2 people, I finished a 2 month dance class, it was good to acclimate myself to be in the close presence of others. This coming month, I am joining a fitness boot camp, and looking at various charities for volunteer work. The camp should be a fun way to kick my butt, meet some people, and get in better shape.

[This message has been edited by HenryTX2002 (edited September 27, 2004).]

> This coming month, I am joining a fitness
>boot camp, and looking at various charities
>for volunteer work.

Good idea. Something I should do too. Most spiritually-oriented or self-help stuff I've read recommends doing this, including a couple of dating article columns I recall that recommend getting 'out of yourself'

[This message has been edited by SteveBCA (edited September 27, 2004).]

Hello again...

HenryTX2002, I'm in a club in Europe, and don't seem to have the connection to Houston/Austin.. But the lairs in USA that I know about is here:

A-T-L-A-S Atlanta Lair http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A-T-L-A-S/

ArizonaPUA
Arizonas Lair. http://www.arizonapua.com/

Boston PUA Society http://www.bostonpuasociety.com/

Nashville Lair http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NashvilleLair/
Ohio Lair http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ohiolair/

p-l-a-y Player's Los Angeles http://groups.yahoo.com/group/p-l-a-y/

vasf Vancouver ASF http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vasf/

Maybe you can find a good lair there... If you're not too far away from them.

Have you tried Instantanous Personal Magnetism, because you talk about that others don't seem to like you.. That you don't radiate good energy..

What about joining a club like tennis club, or a team sport club, where you have to work together with some people in a sport.. Any club is a good at thing to get to know other people.. Or just a hang out club of any kind... Try and try and try...

A good thing is that if you are afraid that they don't like you, then try to build rapport with them imidietly when you meet them.. I do that when that happens.. I do that when I meet new people.. Everytime they quickly begins to like me.. takes me in as partner.. Like copying how they stand physically, and where they have their hands or/and copying their tonality of their voice.. This is almost undetectable.. Aand just building good rapport.. That you can speak with them in their world.. That you understand their world also builds good rapport..

Anyway.. have not bin so much out in the street lately to say hi to women.. And you are probably right Alex.. About talking about the enviroment and other things like that. That they don't get that much often.. Also I have read about good openers, like going over to a girl, and ask her: "Hello.. Can I have a womans opinion? Who lies the most? Men or Women?..." and later "Who lies the best?". And if you are lucky they opens up.. Have only tried that once yet.. But it felt so uncomfortable to say somthing that you have planned, but the good PU's (good seducers) are good at it.. Also at patterns and stories, that build a really good connection to them...

In my club most of them do the direct approach.. But it takes some guts.. Just going up to the lady and say "Hi.. woow you look really beutiful. I'm just dying to meet you.. My name is..", and being totally direct all the time.. Takes some guts.. Have not done that yet.. but thinking of trying it..

[This message has been edited by NokPhill (edited September 28, 2004).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by NokPhill:
... Also I have read about good openers, like going over to a girl, and ask her: "Hello.. Can I have a womans opinion? Who lies the most? Men or Women?..." and later "Who lies the best?".

---

[this is one of the times I wish I could find a nice Spock emoticon, the straight face with the raised eyebrow]

You have to be one heck of a talker and cocky to pull that one off.

One ice breaker with a stranger is... Can you tell me what time it is I think my watch is wrong. Once they tell you the time or not you're open to say thank you and since you have that persons attention ask them something else. It works with either gender if you want a chance to introduce yourself, open so that you have to say thank you for their response.

Alex

Somebody mentioned a lair and then some BRIEF contact for about 1/50 th of them was mentioned.

Since I run the San Diego lair and on top of that run a group that has all the lair presidents I think it is only fair to mention ALL of them.

Lair Information

Across the world, there are groups of men who gather together to help teach, learn, and support one another as they study the art of picking up and seducing women.
Below is a list of known Lairs.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LAIR LEADERS GROUP

If and ONLY if you are running a lair there is now a yahoo group for
organization ideas for PUA groups. As each lair is different and this
group lets us know what other lairs are doing. No seduction related topics just organization ideas. To join please have them email
RunningaPUAgroup-subscribe@yahoogroups.com and then email Nightlife at nightlife858@yahoo.com with an intro of who they are and what lair they are running.

ATLANTA, USA LAIR

I am interested in forming an Atlanta Lair. If interested, please send an e-mail to jospades54321@yahoo.com

AUCKLAND, NEW ZEALAND LAIR

We have already met-up with couple of local guys and go out and meet women 2-3 times a week. We are willing to meet-up with more guys to share the PU knowledge and experience to improve our game. Those of you who are interested contact us at sexualpredator@em-wave.com

AUSTIN, TEXAS USA LAIR

The Austin Society: We are located in Austin, Texas. Our group is devoted to the development and practice of all styles and methods of seduction arts. We are the largest group in Texas. We are the organizers of the next PUA Summit 2004, to be held here. We are highly organized and highly motivated. We are actively seeking serious and motivated individuals only to join our group. All new candidate members must fill go through a membership process and go out and meet women initiation before they can join. After they are accepted into the group they must fulfill certain requirements to maintain active status in the group, if not they will be removed. If you are interested in joining email Hitcher69 at emmitotter69@hotmail.com for more info.

AUSTRIA, VIENNA
All guys in Austria are welcome (and some Germany and Swiss, too
Regular meetings, closed community, newcomers as pro's welcome....
Homepage: http://www.austrianplayers.com

BLOOMINGTON , IN USA LAIR:

The Bloomington, IN lair for guys interested in attraction/seduction. This is a group made for guys that want to discuss techniques, inner game, make

new friends, and meet up with wings in the Bloomington area. If your interested in subscribing email: b-lair-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

BRAZIL:

To join please send an email to Brazil_P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
(in portuguese)

BOSTON MA USA LAIR

The Boston Lair is now open. The lair is a forum for brothers in the Boston, Rhode Island, and upper New England area to get together and meet others in the game and to build an active community in Boston and the surrounding areas. To subscribe to the Lair, email b-o-s-lair-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.

BUCHAREST, ROMANIA
Those interested might send an e-mail to pintea@gmail.com .

CHICAGO , IL USA LAIR

Contact Paul "La Piovra" at pb@core.com

Since they've just starting to hold meetings, they have a flexible format but as they get more organized they plan to have guest speakers. Anyone who knows a local PUA (not self proclaimed) is encouraged to invite him/ her over to share ideas. Please post all org issues under http://www.Another Seduction Forum.com/cities/Chicago

CHINA (MAINLAND, TAIWAN, HK) LAIR

A list for China based PUA has been set-up. Discuss PU tactics/experiences in China, and meet and practice with other local PUA. Join the group @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PUA-china/join

CONNECTICUT , USA LAIR

Open to PUAs and average frustrated chump who live in CT who are interested in or have real field experience as opposed to keyboard theory. Send an email to don@metrofly.org with your background and experience.

DUBLIN, IRELAND LAIR

To join our Lair in Dublin, Ireland contact Johnny at dublinlair@online.ie

DUTCHSEDUCTION.COM

THE NETHERLANDS AND BELGIUM
Dutch Language Lair (NL Lounge)
Contact Big Bear http://www.DutchSeduction.com

An independent platform for the phenomenon known as "seduction" in the Dutch language with members in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, Belgium and points beyond. Founded in 1999, we are one of the first international groups dedicated to seduction. Our purpose is to help members meet one another and share information and experience.

Membership is open to anyone who lives in the Netherlands or Belgium or is a frequent visitor. However, our membership policy is strict.

GERMANY LAIR

The name of the group is PU_Meetings_Germany. It´s a field oriented group and we welcome everybody from all over Germany to join and attend our meetings which are held in different cities all over Germany. For further information write to: pimpstylez@hotmail.com

HONOLULU, HAWAII USA LAIR

Showing those surfergirls a good time since late '03. Drop an e-mail to lair808@hotmail.com for more info on building sandcastles.

HOUSTON TX, USA LAIR

Houston Brothers http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HoustonLair/

Or write to S.S. Brothers at houstontexaslair@yahoo.com

ISRAELI LAIR http://beam.to/PUA-iL
(in Hebrew)

ITALY LAIR

Our goal is to have a lot of FUN!
Why we made up a lair? To keep in touch with each other and to rock the
Italian scene, we want to live like rockstars since we know we DESERVE
IT.
We have had enough of all the boring guys and losers boyfriend out
there that are making womens life a nightmare when they are waiting for US, the playboys.
Join us and we will share with you a lot of secrets that you need to
know to totally transform your life life and get more choise not only
in life but with every relationship.
In order to learn you must be willing to go out with us and try new
stuff asking to yourself:
"what is possible?, what if i get the results i only dreamed for and
then even more than that?"
Send a mail at italy_lair@yahoo.com to join.

KANSAS CITY KANSAS USA LAIR

Looking to get a group of like minded guys together to share ideas and most importantly work the field in Kansas City MO. Write discohornet@yahoo.com and include "From Badboycoaching.com" in the title.

LAS VEGAS NV USA LAIR

Nightlife who runs San Diego is helping a few guys set something up in Vegas so a new group is now forming. To join please send an email LV-P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com be prepared to give a brief intro.

LISBON, PORTUGAL LAIR

Fellow Lisbon Sargers

I am now willing to form a Lisbon Lair in Portugal. The benefits of meeting other PUAs or people interested in Pick-Up in general has been stressed by many people in this board and outside. The opinions on the recent LA PUA Summit Are a good pointer that real life discussion favours everyone's game. However, I can't seem to find a Lair in Portugal in all the lists I searched.

The Lair will be used to getting to know other PUAs, discuss tactics and techniques, and mainly to discuss in real life the personal experiences in the field of everyone who actively sarges or wishes to go out and meet women in Lisbon. The pretty little asses walking around this town will thank you for it, rest assured

So, if you are interested in PU (you should, otherwise you wouldn't be reading this board, right? :-]), send a message to:

lx-pua-lair-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

In order to subscribe to the group. Knowing other people will really increase everyone's skill levels. Also, if you are not in Lisbon but want to keep up with the scene here either because you are traveling or you're just plain curious about it, feel free to subscribe.

LONDON, ENGLAND LAIR

The London Seduction Society http://www.thelss.com

LOS ANGELES CA USA LAIR

The LA List, PLAY (Player's Los Angeles Yahoo) Group, is a community for Los Angeles area PUAs to talk about the game, make friends in the community, and meet up with wings in the LA area. The PLAY List is a community that is open to the public and is a place where you can share your views on any methods in an unmoderated (except for deletion of spam) forum. email p-l-a-y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com to join

MELBOURNE, AUSTRALIA LAIR

The Melbourne Lair is now fully operational. Currently we are meeting once a month, with members hooking up to go sarging between meetings. All styles, ages, and abilities are welcome. To join us contact Craig at cnoodles@bigpond.com.au

MIAMI FL USA LAIR

Contact Jerry at trudelle@email.com to attend.

MILWAUKEE TO MADISON WI USA LAIR

A Lair is start for the Milwaukee to Madison, Wisconsin area. Emphasis will be on field sarging and developing a network of like-minded "wings" to develop and maintain a secret society in this area. We will go out and meet women from the college bars of Madison to the redneck fishermen bars of Lake Country to the cheesy working class discos of Milwaukee. All interested parties (male or female) please contact g66@outgun.com

MINNEAPOLIS/ST.PAUL USA LAIR

Skyler has taken over from Jerry for the Lair in the twin cities of Minneapolis/St Paul. Contact him at skiloa@yahoo.com.

MONTERREY, MEXICO LAIR

Spanish speaking community, we welcome all levels of experience, and are
very motivated on learning and going out and putting everything into practice. Look us up: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SeduccionMexico/

Or write to me directly at: javimartinez50@hotmail.com

MONTREAL CANADA LAIR

Out of town bros are welcome to drop in to meetings. E-mail Cliff at cliff@be-relentless.com for more information.

NASHVILLE TN USA LAIR

Nashville Lair for PUA's and those working to improve their game. We will organize nights of the week to go go out and meet women. This is also a forum to share new ideas, and field reports. The website is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NashvilleLair/

To subscribe write to: NashvilleLair-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

NEW ORLEANS USA LAIR

Joseph is looking to set up or find a "mastermind group" of like-minded people and he is in the south MS area about 1.5 hours drive from New Orleans or the MS gulf coast. He would like to invite anyone in MS/LA/AL within driving distance to participate, and to help him to get it started. Contact him at: veuxdeux@yahoo.com

New York 2 groups now

Our students Strongbad and a few others are in here.
This is the lair the Badboy Crew supports in NY..
NEW YORK, NY USA LAIR

send an email to NY-PLAY-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

NYC:

Contact Marco, marcorulesinfinity@yahoo.com and get on their mailing list: NYCTSF-SUBSCRIBE@YAHOOGROUPS.COM
The list above is the larger and more well known list.

NORTH CAROLINA , USA LAIR

A group is interested in forming a lair in the North Carolina area. Members include attendees of the Charlotte Sargeathon in November 2003. Meetings may rotate through different cities (possibly outside North Carolina) depending on interest. Contact Jason at thee_jacas@yahoo.com with LAIR in the subject line for more information.

NORTH EAST FLORIDA USA LAIR

Based in the Saint Augustine / Jacksonville Florida area but open to other relatively close PUA's. All experience levels, styles and ages welcome. I personally study and focus on the DYD style. Focus on building a network of guys to learn from each other, teach each other, practice all kinds of PU's with (i.e. club, street, malls, friggen yogart shops... whatever), share ideas, techniques and stories and help build each other up to the best we each can be and have a hell of a lot of fun doing so. If interested, send an email to north_fl_lair@webdesignsbyken.com

OKLAHOMA CITY OK, USA LAIR

Lu is looking to start a lair in Oklahoma City, OK. He would like to invite anyone who's interested in going out sarging to join, & help him get the lair started, please respond only if you are interested in Going Out & go out and meet women, or Doing Field Work, contact him at ljp97001@yahoo.com.

ORANGE COUNTY, CA USA LAIR

Join up at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocplayasgroup/

OSLO LAIR

The Oslo Lair just opened. If you are interested / want to join, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Another Seduction Forum-Oslo/ and apply. We will start out with monthly meetings, on the first Sunday of every month.

OTTAWA LAIR

Ottawa Lair yahoo group created http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ottawalair/

PARIS, FRANCE USA LAIR

The Paris Lair is up. Those interested should go visit www.parislair.com and hit the forum on how to join.

We want to keep the lair focused on field work and results. So no keyboards jockeys please. We are a bunch of highly motivated people who share the same passion and help each other to achieve the best possible outcome.

PERTH, AUSTRALIA LAIR

The Perth lair is a small group of people who go out and meet women regularly several times a week. At the moment, I'm actively looking for new members to join us on our outings (the more the merrier!). Anyone wishing to go sarging with us any day of the week should email me at tnejad@hotmail.com to meet up.

PHILADELPHIA LAIR

Looking for a group of guys interested in a Lair in the Philly area. All experience levels welcome but must be willing to actually go into the field. See philadelphiaLair@yahoogroups.com or email me at myaroch@yahoo.com

POLAND LAIR

We've formed a LAIR in Poland http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pflayers/join so if anybody is interested in joining it contact me at PFLayers-owner@yahoogroups.com or subscribe at PFLayers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. It's unmoderated forum where You can excange your views on the game and meet with wings in your area.

SALT LAKE CITY, UT USA LAIR

Contact Ronnie at ronnie@wbinvestors.com

SAN DIEGO , CA USA LAIR

Nightlife has formed a seduction group in San Diego. This is to benefit guys who are interested in Pick Up who live or frequent San Diego. To join send an email to SD-P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com It is open to everyone in San Diego.

SAN FRANCISCO, CA USA LAIR

We have a very active group in the San Francisco area dedicated to improving their game. All skill levels and types of game welcome. We have meetings once every 6 weeks or so, and numerous go out and meet women outings. We also have top PUA's share their knowledge with us when they come to San Francisco. Our list traffic is low but valuable. Lots of field reports and feedback. To join send an email to sf_morpheus_x@yahoo.com, and mention you heard about us on Badboycoaching.com forum.

SCOTLAND LAIR:

There is now a Scotland Lair. It's the sSs Group and we have a website at www.scotlandlair.com that we JUST put up. The group is currently yahoo based and we would like to start taking in any members who may or may not have heard about us yet. To join, they can visit sss.scotlandlair.com which will redirect them to our mailing list, or email signup@scotlandlair.com

SEATTLE , WASHINGTON, USA LAIR

I would like to find out how many are interested in forming a Seattle Lair. Contact theloinking1@hotmail.com to get on their mailing list.

SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA LAIR

To join please email j_ta@tpg.com.au

TAMPA/ORLANDO FL USA LAIR

The TOP (Tampa / Orlando Players) Lair is a PUA community for Tampa and Orlando area PUAs to talk about the game, make friends in the community, and meet up with wings in the area. This will be a group whose level of quality will be unsurpassed in its potential. We are a true brotherhood, and we will do what is necessary to ensure it thrives, because its importance will become one of the most powerful sources of inspiration in our lives. If you interested in joining our band of brothers, contact BigWave at bigwavepua@aol.com.

TOKYO JAPAN LAIR:

Any Tokyo guys looking to join a Lair in Tokyo should email freebird at free897@hotmail.com

TOLEDO, OHIO - METRO DETROIT , USA LAIR

I am interested in starting a Lair in the Toledo, Ohio - Metro Detroit Area; Those interested should email Jay at TSAFriend@hotmail.com

TORONTO CANADA LAIR

Greater Toronto Area Lair By Throughfare

The group has grown to 20 members, and Throughfare has resigned his unofficial position of Founding Caudillo and Website Disorganizer. The TOPs executive now consists of our newly-elected President (Smooth) and Webmaster (Pluvio) People interested in joining the lair should now write to: TO_Lair-owner@yahoogroups.com

If you wrote to throughfare@mailvault.com for information and didn’t get a reply, please resend your email to TO_Lair-owner@yahoogroups.com

WASHINGTON, D.C. USA LAIR

DC Seduction, formerly known as DC Area PUAs, has been around since 2000. We are over three dozen brothers drawn from the Another Seduction Forum, SS, and the Lounge communities. Contact Minger at minger@dcseduction.com

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[This message has been edited by Nightlife (edited December 21, 2004).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by NokPhill:
Hey..

I'm a beginner in the seduction zone, and have a big fear of approaching girls. Just the thought about going over and talk to a girl scares me.. Don't feel good about doing it. It feels like something you just don't do if you see beautiful girl. You just don't go over and talk to her..

I have a few years ago tried in the disco at nights (a few nights) to go over to a girl and ask her to dance. Almost everyone rejected me, and it felt so hart. I was very wounded when I came home from that. I think I took it very personally.. But I now that I'm good looking, so it can not be that problem..

But now it seems like I'm scared just to say hi to any girl in a disco and something like that. Just stands there with my drink or beer and looking at all these nice chicks. Ok, if a chick approach me, then I try to push myself talking to her, but I never manage that.

I have tried Speed Seduction course, but that don't help me with that problem, with my fear. I have tried the Palo Alto from Speed Seduction, but I can't get it to work. There you can imagine something, and then the fear will be gone. But I can not get it to work. I'm still scared.. I have tried the equalizer from Ross Jeffries in a whole month. Heard it everyday, but still I don't dare to talk to any women. I have tried the MLF da Babe from Extreme mind, but that has also not helped me. Has also read David D'Angelo, also not helped me...

I'm really really frustrated right now, that I can't go over to talk to any woman, and want to really really doing it.. Just to learn going over to any woman and having a conversation is my goal.. All that ross jeffries "lines to say" etc. can wait. It's my ability to go over and just have a normal nice conversation is my goal. Never to be afraid going over and talk to a beautiful woman..

And I want to work this problem out with help on this forum. And on this forum. Here must be some good tools that can Help me. I have a lot of paraliminals, Natural Brilliance and Resiliency. I have used the paraliminals a little, but not much. Maybe I should use them a little more??

What would work?

Any good help suggestions on what to help me with this, and which paraliminal I should start with? Or with anything else..
And please, let the suggestions be helpful ones...

And things like "wait wait, and the right one will show herself in your life" is not what I'm looking for. I really really want to overcome that fear..

To have something that makes me take the action..

Kim.

---

Hey, listen Bill Gates. There is nothing wrong. Maybe computers are just your thing.LOLOLOLOLOL, whew that was good stuff...