How it was discovered that to get into alpha state or theta etc...you have to close your eyes, count down or imagine something ?
i know that there are fmri scanning brain devices now, that science discovered that best state to learn is alpha which is 10-12hz..etc....BUT HOW IT WAS DISCOVERED HOW CAN PEOPLE GET INTO IT ?
is this knowledge received from ghosts ? (like in silva method from chinese ghost -[definitely OCCULT] !!!!!!! ? but i know he wasnt first who discovered how to get into it) from other side ?
from occult ? demons ? ????
I AM COURIOUS ABOUT IT, please tell me if you know....what is genesis of getting into alpha state who first tell whom that he has to close eyes and count down or imagine something....or synchronize with breath or heart...?

IS THIS OCCULT KNOWLEDGE ? IF NOT - where it come from ?

In the 1970's some scientists from major US universities convinced Indian gurus to travel to their labs where they got tested using EEG machines. The results of the experiments showed that, while people are alert and under normal conditions, the EEG machines recorded beta brainwaves. However, then they started meditating they got into alpha, theta and delta brainwaves. Many more measurements were made to match brainwaves with emotional states. If you look at the work by Anna Wise, in one of her books she describes how to meditate to create certain brainwaves. She has been using an EEG-besed device called Mind Mirror to collect her results.

If you have some spare US$2000 or so, you can buy a small EEG machine and measure your own brainwaves. The interpretation of the results is not as simple as personal development gurus make it. You also need to add costs of consumables, like electrodes, adhesive paste, etc. Go to http://www.transparentcorp.com/ and you can find one of these machines.

Yes...but it is not what i was asking....
I know that there are these brainwaves etc....
BUT you wrote about this convinced Indian guru....
HOW HE KNOW HOW TO MEDITATE ??????
WHO TOLD HIM WHAT HE HAVE TO CREATE IN HIS MIND TO GET INTO STATE ?
is this spiritually genesis of this ?
HOW HE KNEW HOW TO get into state? I KNOW THAT THIS IS POSSIBLE... but someone had to dicover how to get into it....how it was discovered....is this knowledge from occult side ?

It was taught him by his masters. Medicatation goes back millennia. It was improved from when it started probably from some religious belief. The occult side is irrelevant in my view.

If you do not know and are 'afraid of it' then often someone calls it 'occult'.

Gunpowder was (and still is to some) a Chinese devil held captive by magic who once set 'fire' explodes in a vengeful wrath.

How many have been persecuted for dabbling in science 'not yet understood'?

Strictly speaking there is no magick only science for GOD is a GOD of LAW.

Strictly speaking of course...

But if I know something and you don't, a mystery be afoot.

Close your eyes.... triggers alpha. The brain does it. It knows the right state.

The guy who learned to meditate didn't give too hoots about what brainwave he was at. He just followed the instructions from his teachers and meditated.

Just do it. If you're too busy analysing the experience you aren't in the experience. Or in other words ... if you're analysing you are doing it wrong.

AlexK

Occult is another name for 'hidden' knowledge.
Meditation is common to all cultures and religious systems.
There are hundreds of techniques with different aims.
It's common in all systems to learn to still the mental chatter in order to apply different techniques for various outcomes.
One of the reasons that people meditate is to transcend the 'little ego' and have a personal experience of connectedness with the universal consciousness.
Some western religious political agendas realised that if too many of their obedient flock realised their own divinity then the power base of the church was on shaky ground, hence the fear and smear campaign.
Taking control of your own chattering mind is very enpowering. The power it creates is neutral, neither good nor bad in itself. Most people experience waves of loving energy whilst in meditative states, and their personal energy vibrates at a higher rate, opening higher perceptions.
Some church politicians never approach this higher state of awareness and in their ignorance seek to control by rules and fear. Others are fully aware of the freedom gained and deliberately suppress the knowledge.

In recent years science has allowed us to take a look at what is happening in the brains of experienced meditators, and to categorise and label the results that they observed.
It is very pleasant and beneficial for your health in so many ways to be able to control your own state of mind and observe your own thought processes.And if you should be seeking spiritual enlightenment, no amount of studying can take the place of daily meditation. You will never have higher awareness until you learn to silence the mind. We are so much more than this body. So few people understand what they really are. Meditation will help you to uncover your true identity, and that is nothing to fear surely?

Jakalyn said:

"One of the reasons that people meditate is to transcend the 'little ego' and have a personal experience of connectedness with the universal consciousness."

Well said, Jakalyn, finally somebody in 'Learning Strategies' who says "universal consciousness" instead of "a sea of awareness" Too many of these masters talk about becoming aware of Awareness in their guided meditations. As if there was no difference between Universal Consciousness (or Universal Intelligence) and what they call a sea of awareness.

And I also agree with the rest you say, about the western religious political agenda and their smear campaign re: meditation.

And taking control of your own never ending chattering mind is indeed empowering even though it does not really mean "to shut off your thoughts altogether" for long periods of time like many buddhists do practicing meditation for hours and hours every day of their life.
"To be still and know" does not mean to sit motionless for hours and shut off your thoughts altogether. It means "to quieten your mind and heart from turbulent thoughts and emotions".
See my message "About Stillness" under "Beyond Human".

From a magnificent little known book published in 1963, titled "The Door of Everything" channelled through Ruby Nelson who doesn't say a word about who he or she is, our Creator gave us a very clear message explaining so many things which have been confusing peoples' minds, I like to report just a paragraph from it:

"Trying to make your mind a vacuum and turn off all thoughts will do little to help you live upward toward that Door (The Creator calls 'The Door of Everything' that door or veil which will open to connect us to Him or Universal Consciousness). There is no place in all my cosmos for a vacuum, least of all in the minds of men."

Think about it for a moment: If shutting off your thoughts altogether was the way to reach Higher Consciousness or connection with The All That IS, wouldn't all those Ashrams and Buddhist monasteries be full of "fully Conscious" humans, able to come and go at the speed of thoughts, healing anyone who come close enough to them even without their own being aware of it, restoring perfection wherever they go and literally moving mountains instantly if they so wished?
So where are they these Fully Conscious humans?

In that small precious book, the Creator says: "I am a God who requires understanding" and He really gives it in that message.

I must add that since the message was given in a traditionally christian country (USA), He refers often to words credited to Jesus. The truth is that every religion has had Messengers who gave almost exactly the same words as given by Jesus.
In fact, there are three books that everybody of every religion should read:
1) THE WORLD'S SIXTEEN CRUCIFIED SAVIOURS by Kersey Graves

2) SUNS OF GOD - Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled by Acharya S. also author of The Christ Conspiracy

3) THE CRUCIFIXION OF TRUTH - by Tony Bushby, also author of The Christ Scandal.


Very interesting readings: it seems that among all religions there have been 16 previous "Saviours" each one of them called "The Only Begotten Son of God" whose date of birth was the 25th of Dec., whose mother was a virgin and who were crucified to save mankind for their sins and their teachings were all very, very similar. If you want an explanation of how that could be possible, see my article in "2012" also "Beyond Human", which very strangely received no comment from anyone who read it. Did it blow your mind?

If you cannot find the book THE DOOR OF EVERYTHING and you'd like to read it, either leave your email address or ask for mine and I shall send it to you as an Attachment since I have typed it all word for word because some friends of mine could not find it.

Blessings to all,

Starchild

When doing long travels on bus lines I put myself in a relaxed state then close my eyes. I can still hear any sounds made in the bus, but time "disappear" and I "wake up" from the relaxed state when the driver suddenly announce over the speakers that we are arriving at my designation. I also usually do this when resting rather than just sleeping for an half hour when needed.

Which state am I in during that period? (Yes, I know, relaxed... )

Bjhn, are you for real or are you trying to be funny?
When you are relaxed you are in an alpha state of mind. Even just looking out at the sky and loose yourself in its beauty and you are already in alpha.
But of course you knew this, didn't you? That's why I am asking if you are trying to be funny.

Have a Happy and healthy New Year!

Starchild

I know nothing about meditation. I've just learned to put myself into a relaxed state on my own. I'm not into new age stuff (or religious stuff for that matter).

Happy new year to everyone on this board.

Well Bjhn,
not being into religious stuff is a great advantage, although, like it or not, deep down you still have the beliefs system of the culture you grew up in. All religions were invented in order to manipulate people thinking and maintain control of the masses: all of them! None excluded. They were created to enslave humans. So, if you are not into that, that is great!
But I hope you do believe in Something extremely Great Who has created everything, don't you? You may call IT: Universal Intelligence, Universal Mind, God, The All That IS, whatever you like, or how would you explain what you see around yourself and also what you cannot see but still know it is there, like an incredible Cosmos which contains more than 100,000 galaxies, each of them containing trillions of stars, and each star with its own planets and moons.

Do you know of anything that creates itself? By itself and starting from nothing? And please do not mention that most stupid theory that says the universe was created by a Big Bang. A Big Bang of what? Was it nuclear, was it thermonuclear? If something exploded, there must have been something .... so what was there? And Who created that? And by the way, since when an explosion of anything creates something so beautiful and in perfect order?????? An explosion only creates chaos or destroys everything: it does not create beauty and perfection and order!!!

We humans cannot even create a mustard seed which is one of the smallest seeds. So WHO created everything?!

And, Okey, you are not into meditation as such, but meditation means to be in that relaxed state of mind during which the brain itself vibrates between 8 to 12 H/sec. and unless you are a very stressed out person and cannot ever relax, you can be sure that, willingly or unwillingly, you are often into that state. You said it yourself that when travelling in a bus you can easily drift off in a totally relaxed state of mind. At that time you really are in alpha and what is called 'meditation'.

You know, in this universe everything contracts and expands in sequence. When you think about something, your brain is contracting; the moment you stop thinking, your brain is expanding. I'm sure it happened to you many times: somebody may be asking you: "what are you thinking about" and you answer.."nothing" - and truly you were thinking of nothing. You were just blank. And it happens regularly especially to people who are not stressed out. When you are thinking of nothing, you are totally relaxed and in an alpha state and it is in that state that you get new ideas or insights about something that perhaps you had been thinking before or a problem that needs to be solved.

But it is not good to always be thinking of nothing because it is against the natural state of our brain: it is electrical and it needs to contract and expands: think of the electrical current: it requires two wires, one goes and one returns; if one is missing or short-circuited, there is no light. Correct?

When you focus on something or think about it your brain frequencies will be in the Beta, that is between 13 to 25 H/s.
Over 25 H/s, you start getting stressed and the higher the number the more stressed you are. Although it has been proved that some people, very relaxed and unworried people may think of something and still be in alpha.

Between 4 and 7 H/s you are in the Theta frequencies which we are into when we are dreaming (not day-dreaming). Below 4 H/s we enter the Delta state when we are deeply asleep. Below 0.5 you are about to die.

And that new age stuff you mention, I agree with you, it has been highly corrupted, deliberately by the dark forces still reigning freely on this planet. Purposely corrupted to create confusion. So don't worry about it, you are not missing anything yet. The time will come soon when everything will become clear and the Only TRUTH will be revealed.

Enjoy your life, you are doing fine! With my love and blessings,

Starchild

I consider myself an atheist, basically. If there's anything to get religious over, it must be the nature itself.
So I guess that makes me somewhat pagan.

Do you know what the word 'pagan' means?
After the Catholics took over - and that was after the death of the last Roman King/emperor, King Theodoricus (6th century AD) who, by the way was one of the very best kings or emperors Rome had and, like all of his predecessors extremely tolerant of every country's beliefs in their own religions or gods/goddesses, the Catholics, who had embarked in constant lies and denigration of absolutely anything the King did for the good of the people, took control of the empire: to do that they called themselves "Roman Catholics" as if they were an extension of the Roman empire.
They embarked in compelling everybody to accept their creed or beliefs, failing that, they would murder. It was easier for them to achieve their aims in the cities, much more difficult out in the country because of distances. So those who lived out of their dominion (cities) were called pagans. The word pagan does not mean atheist. It just means those who did not accept the catholics beliefs.

And even an atheist has to believe in something: only animals have no beliefs because they do not have a surface mind, but only instinct which, mind you, works better than our surface mind which has to learn absolutely everything when they do not need to learn anything: they just know instinctively. Instict is the Creator's control over them. We are not controlled because we were created Free and Sovreign, but at the same time,(when we were created thus) we were connected to the Omniscient mind which gave us access to the All-present Light which manifests everything so that we did not need to learn how to survive and use our surface mind (and work for it) as the omniscient mind was manifesting anything we desired instantly.

You know Bjhn, I do not understand why you chose this Forum when you know nothing and believe in nothing that is common to the members of this Forum. Why do you write into this Forum instead of trying to learn something that is common among all its members?

Starchild

I'm here to discuss self help products. This is the best forum if you don't want to discuss specific LS products, which the other forums are for.

I see no magical about hypnosis products, but they're still a theme on this forum. So I am at the right place.

I don't like your excluding "either you're one of us or not" tone. You should get down off your high horse.

I believe only in what science can prove. Gods are just fantasies in the believers mind.

You say: "I believe only in what science can prove"

Then you are not up-todate in scientific studies and evidence because scientists have already proven much more than you know. And perhaps you should choose other groups of topics instead of playing the "sceptic" about everything as if being a sceptic meant to be intelligent.

And this has nothing to do with "either you are one of us or not". And you say: "I am here to discuss self-help products." Could you please tell me where you have discussed self-help products?

Starchild

Besides, up above you say:
"I know nothing about meditation. I've just learned to put myself into a relaxed state on my own. I'm not into new age stuff (or religious stuff for that matter).

So, if you know and admit that you know NOTHING about meditation and you do not care about anything else re: new age stuff, why do you write into such a topic? And you do not care to discuss "self-help products" either... you only challenge others to convince you about what you are sceptical about. A waste of time for everybody: there is nothing worse than a sceptic: he is the one who sits on the fence because he is too coward to be on either side.

Besides, if you know nothing as you admit, why don't you do something about it? http://www.LearningStrategies.com has a great group of masters in many subjects all to do with "self-help products". Why don't you buy some of them, the ones more resonant to you and start to do some "self-help" before you challenge others to prove that what they say is right when you don't believe in anything and know nothing? (Your words).

You want somebody to prove that there is a Creator?.... Whether you call it Energy, Life Force, Light or Intelligence or God?..... That is self-evident!!!!!!!! Or did you create yourself????.... Or by any chance do you know somebody who has created planet Earth and the entire solar system and the trillions of stars in this galaxy without counting all the other 100,000 galaxies that nobody else know?
If you do, please let us know! We would like to know and meet HIM too!

Starchild