Really sad events in Sedona: Two dead and 19 taken to hospital after falling ill in 'sweatbox' at Arizona spiritual retreat

Evidently, this was being run by James Arthur Ray.

Yes, and it makes you wonder how safe these "cleansing" process are for certain people! I am sure there is no maliciousness from any party, but two people died. Is this another example of the LOA?

What exactly happened.

Nobody seems to be sure about that. However, this morning the national news had a headline saying the deaths were being ruled HOMICIDES. Very strange.

Also a stark reminder to choose your gurus carefully, if you use them at all. Some clues I got in viewing the pictures of the place where it happened--a yin-yang symbol on a teepee. NOT a Native American symbol, so not very likely an authentic sweat. Also, just from the pictures with the story, it really doesn't look like a well-kept site. If they're careless about the grounds, it's possible that they're careless about far more important things.

Not to make light of the tragic events, but honestly--$9,000 for a sweat? Come visit me in Oklahoma in the summer (in August, typically lots of days over 100). You can warm yourself up for a lot less!

Last I heard, a few are still in hospital. Healing thoughts being sent in that direction.

UniqueSoul: Indeed, everything actually IS subject to the LOA.

More on this strange story here . Also, he made a conference call to all (living, presumably) attendees, as described here . Some have suggested this could be considered witness-tampering...but I'm not an attorney, just an observers.

I read somewhere that Kirby Brown's family stated in interviews that she was very fit and competed in sporting events. So this looks interesting as there is probably little evidence of some pre-existing illness behind her death.

One of the articles reports that in similar events held previously, people fell ill. So it will be interesting see what caused the illness on other occasions.

I am not sure it was proper to state that people had passed away out of their own choice. During such tragic events any statement should be avoided until the investigations are over and formal conclusions are drawn.

OBE's are safe as people always "come back into their bodies using a connection to a virtual umbelic cord".

I've been looking for a complete transcript of that call, but so far haven't found it posted anywhere. No doubt it will turn up at some point. I don't think Ray et al did themselves any favors with that call. The families of the deceased will not likely take much comfort in some of the things said reported in this article.

Do you have any of Ray's books? What is your take on this guy? From these stories, I'm not terribly impressed--but then, media reports can be misleading, too.

I have the Millionaire's Gift, which I bought about an year ago from LSC because it came at a huge discount. I found most of his teachings no more than repetitions of what other people had said before. He also comes across too strongly for my likings.

I believe that in cases of tragic events, all the parties, who can have potential legal liabilities, should do nothing apart from collaborating with the investigators. Supposedly Ray has hired his own investigators to collaborate with official ones.

Anybody like Ray who gets involved in a mess like this, unless the enquiry fully clears him of all liabilities, is not a person I am interested in listening to. We are definitely not short in "teachers" about New Age subjects!

This might destroy his career as a self help guru. Perhaps it's for the best if doesn't know what he is doing.

This not only put him in a bad light, but also The Secret.

According to this article , there's now a third death. Very sad.

UniqueSoul, I agree with you--I would look at anything he says with a little skepticism after this, especially since people were reportedly ill in previous incidents. You know, it's just common sense that when people become ill at an event like this, you should really investigate WHY.

Bjhn, I agree this could destroy his career, OR it might be the wakeup call that brings a positive transformation--depending on how he handles it all.

That conference call he made, though, could look very bad in court. Lawsuits will almost certainly ensue, and that transcript will likely play a big part.

In the end it is up to the indidual to decide which attorneys to hire to provide good advice. It is also a matter of common sense how to behave in the face of tragedy. The LOA works all the time. James Ray was warned about health problems in the past, but he ignored them. Now he can no longer do so. He may disappear as a result of this misfortune, or come back stronger. Let's see what will happen!

I feel the same way about Marie Diamond and her products. I would never have bought one had I known what I now know about her shameful actions with regard to attempting to keep money to which she was not entitled.

It's all coming out now, isn't it? How many more of 'The Secret' gurus are people none of us should ever consider learning from?

Universal Abundance, my arse! Funny how all that gets pushed out of view when there's money on the table, isn't it?

When you mentioned her, I checked her out on the internet and found this: Case against Marie 'Diamond'. Most of The Secret gurus has now been involved in some scandals, even Rhonda Byrne. So I guess they had it coming, since they attracted it? Who is still 'pure'?

Dave Lakhani has an interesting article on his blog about what triggered people to participate in James Arthur Ray's program which ended up in tragedy:

http://www.stumbleupon.com/s/#2iD4DT/bol...ns-deadly.html/

Great article, thanks so much for that link. I both agree and disagree with some of what he says.

He has other quality stuff on that site, too. There is another article there that talks about a lady who blindly follows people like that--broke and living in her car, she contacted the author asking what to do. He said she should get a job. (Duh!) He even offered to put her and her daughter up in a hotel and help her. But she refused. She said it would go against the LOA!

Folks, since when does the LOA not include attracting work that can provide what you need?? I've had some great jobs, some were high-profile and very high paying, and some were less glamorous, but they all paid highly in one coin or another: the writer/editor job paid well financially and creatively (but lots of stress), and the dishwashing job (with a view of the Grand Tetons) paid in a completely different currency. I can't even say which one I loved the most. LOA brought me in contact with both. And all of them before and after.

Faith is one thing. What this woman and so many of the people at that sweat event are expressing is not faith. It's a sort of insanity that obscures the real gift even when it stares them in the face. If someone thinks of themselves as a "follower" as opposed to being a student or fellow traveler--that's the time to stop and take stock.

Thanks again,

Jeanne

The Secret and LOA is basically a working idea. It works for me on some level, but you still need a job
for daily survival.

Nothing in the book LOA or The Secret video suggest you should stop working for a living and become
a tramp.

Part of LOA is taking action so that a person can achieve a goal. It is the dynamics created by taking action puts the LOA in motion. Living as a tramp in car and making no attempt to get a job is a further demonstration that, if you do nothing, you attract nothing!

I doubt anyone is truly pure. We are, after all, human, and are bound to make mistakes. I think what matters is that we always try to do the best we can, and with the best of intentions. And should we not expect the best actions and intentions from the people we are hoping to learn from?

Without doubt, James Ray is a complete moron for putting people in danger of their lives, but I am pretty sure that killing three people wasn't his intention. After all, where's the profit in it?

But with Marie Diamond, the intention is very different. From what I can see, she consciously and deliberately decided to keep money to which she was not entitled, in spite of it being legally, and what is far more important, morally wrong. I am willing to bet that the injured party did not immediately decide to go for a court case, and that they had tried on numerous occasions to retrieve their money, but to no avail. What sort of energy did that create, I wonder...?

We can all get things wrong, yes, but only someone with no sense of what is morally right or wrong would behave in this shameful way. Even more shameful, is the fact that Marie 'Diamond' creates product after product on the LOA and Universal Abundance, yet when there's money on the table she behaves like a crook! Surely, of all people, these 'gurus' should be setting an example, but in her I just see an example of how I never want to be! What sort of energy did she thing she was creating?

The video on Youtube of the Chasers and 'The Secret' that the late, great ZMNC introduced us to, is intended to be a a parody, but in Marie's case, it's embodies the proverbial true word spoken in jest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usbNJMUZSwo

The final segment where the two presenters are shoplifting and justifying it with the LOA is pure genius! Check out the disbelief on the Chinese lady's face when they are explaining their rationale for stealing her shirts! Oh, yes, and you get a bit of James Ray - the bit where the cat is being tortured with the Twisties packet. Hey, maybe the sweat lodge was just a cover story and when the truth really comes out, you'll find that he had a whole group of people sitting around with huge Twisties packets on their heads.

But with Marie, isn't that just want she was doing - not the Twisties stuff, I mean the taking stuff and keeping it even though it rightfully belongs to someone else.

Maybe Marie, in her vast wisdom of The Law Of Attraction thought that the Universe was giving her this money, and that, she was entitled to it. I'll bet her face was a picture when The Universe changed its mind and sued the arse off her!

This calls into question the efficacy of products these 'gurus' create. After all, if the LOA is true, then she must have attracted the law suit!

Think about it: If someone who is supposed to be an expert on Universal Abundance is so constricted financially and 'energetically', that she needs to 'steal' money, then what the hell is she doing claiming to teach people about it all? WAKE UP PEOPLE AND SMELL THE COFFEE!

Why she thought that she could just keep the money is beyond me! And what sort of image did she think it would create for her when it all came out?

Learning Strategies should cut her loose, but instead they are publishing more of her products - some New Age crap about hexagons is the new one. So, does this mean that money is more important than integrity here too? That's a rhetorical question, by the way. I already know the answer!

At the beginning of the year, when I returned to this forum, I wrote that I was sad to see that Learning Strategies had got so involved with the gurus from 'The Secret' - a tacky marketing exercise, enshrouded in bad energy right from the start. I wasn't wrong, was I? In fact, 'The Secret' is at the heart of all this Vyncke stuff, too.

And what's wrong with the name Vyncke? Oh yes, I forgot, it doesn't sell stuff quite as well as one's porn name. Silly me!

Hello All,

The natural state of the universe is expansion.

Sit in meditation and notice. Is everything naturally expanding? Is it stagnant? Or, is it contracting?

Encourage expansion. What do you notice? What does it feel like?

Encourage stagnation. What do you notice? What does it feel like?

Encourage contraction. What do you notice? What does it feel like?

Think expansive thoughts. Feel expansive feelings.

Do the same with contracted thoughts and feelings.

Do you notice the difference? Which do you enjoy feeling the most?

Do you experience how feelings of love, kindness, forgiveness, support, and creativity are expansive? And how feelings of anger, jealousy, negativism, and getting even are those of contraction?

Then try the same exercise with expansive speech. Writing. Actions.

Most people will notice the natural ease, lightness, and flow of expansion. Nearly everyone prefers expansion over contraction.

Humans naturally respond favorably to expansion. Contraction causes more contraction and ultimately leads to sickness.

When being with others, when writing, when doing your work, when making decision, always be in the mode of expansion. Notice the difference in how you feel and what you draw back to you. Notice how others respond. Notice how you feel at the end of the day.

When you find yourself in the state of contraction, close your eyes, and simply expand. Feel your body expand. Feel your energy expand. Take on expansive emotions. Simply think a happy thought.You’ll find it easier and easier to shift from contraction to expansion (and to greater and greater expansion).

When writing in this forum, please be in a state of expansion. You will do a world of good for yourself and for others.

When you have questions, criticism, advice, suggestions, or general comments for us, write from expansion. We read everything that is written in the forum. It helps shape who we are and what we do. If you truly want us to do the best work possible, which we believe you do, write from expansion.

If you want to experience more expansion and better understand the design of existence, do Jeddah Mali’s “Seeds of Enlightenment” program.

Best,

Pete

Any Jeddah Mali exercise is a positive thing.

That said, a little "contraction" is also necessary. It is a mistake to think that expansion is the only movement the Universe sanctions. Every expansion is followed by a contraction; every rise is followed by a fall. Watch the ocean: the tides rise, the tides fall. You breathe in; you breathe out. Sometimes our words are sweetness and light; sometimes we must speak of things that are less uplifting. Cycles within cycles surrounding other cycles, into infinity.

Inchiki's post contained some important truths. Not necessarily pretty ones, but for seekers, invaluable. They are some of my concerns, too. Choosing teachers and gurus--and indeed, entire paths--is a serious exercise in discernment. I'm amazed at how many people put themselves in the possibly incapable or even malevolent hands of strangers and follow blindly.

As we see from the past (and we do have many examples, with Mr. Ray being only the most recent, but also including more sinister gurus like Jim Jones), at its worst it can be a matter of physical life or death--in a slightly better scenario, students are merely relieved of their money, although that's bad enough. Of course, everyone hopes for the best: attaining the big goal, whatever it is. This is actually more common, but it is not the only outcome.

It's easy enough to seek out the best teachers for ourselves. In this internet age, google can be a good tool for this--is there anything out there that might indicate a problem with ethics? If so, no matter how great the course or event, it's good to remember that there is no wall between personal ethics and what is being taught. On an energetic level, often in class (including classes on disk) auras will merge--especially if trance is involved, and it almost always is. We should all choose--carefully--what we allow into our auric space.

Even after all of that, do energy testing on the course and on the teacher. If you have another way of going inside and asking your Higher Self these questions, use that.

I am delighted to say that I've never had the slightest doubt about any of Paul Scheele's material. Even though I didn't get the advertised results with one program (Sonic Access), all of them are very positive and very light-filled. Sonic Access remains a great meditation set--I just let go of expectations and enjoy the meditation.

I should mention that I've never felt drawn to any of the Diamond material. I also have a book by Ray (and an oldie) that I've never read. Somehow, it just didn't seem to resonate with me. Farther back in time, I met with Jim Jones at his Peoples Temple in San Francisco. Although several friends thought he was the bees' knees, I felt better backing away, so I did. Years later, I was so glad I had. Listen to your intuition, even if everyone around you enthusiastically supports a teacher, guru, or path.

So yes, expand, grow, but also contract and occasionally, at times when you know for yourself that something is amiss, retreat--or to put it the way another of my teachers says it: grow in a different direction.

But we should be asking questions, both of our possible teachers, and of ourselves. Inchiki's post was valuable for bringing some of these things to light.

The existence of contraction does not justify speaking from contraction.

Speaking from a place of expansion does not mean you cannot criticize, be stern, disagree, or call for someone to accept responsibility. Not at all.

When sitting in expansion, when residing in the higher frequencies, you express your message sans contraction.

If you are not sure of what I mean by residing in the higher frequencies or if it seems a bit esoteric, that's what you experience in Jeddah's "Seeds of Enlightenment." In that course you explore the structure of existence. In her next course, "Embracing Freedom," you explore what it means in your day-to-day life. Jeddah's programs are not about gaining an intellectual understanding, but actually experiencing each concept. They will give you plenty of OMG moments where you finally get what our lives are all about.

Pete

Just out of curiosity, would banning someone from the board classify as "contraction"?

Not innately.

James Ray is a "Spiritual Salesman"

This guy promotes expensive seminars and repackaged ancient wisdom (which can be learned for free) as a seminar for $5k to $10k. Doesn't that contract itself?

How does James Ray justify it? He always say "It's noble to charge thousands if it can return 10 times the value." Ok, so, should religion and love be charge millions????

All his books including his free events are a sales pitch to his price Harmonic Wealth Weekend. After that, he goes on a salesptich to sell more pricey seminars.

How does he do it? He exploits the "Human nature always EXPAND and GROW" law as a method to sell you his product.

You wanna grow spiritually? Go to my seminar!
You wanna grow MORE spiritually? Upgrade to a more pricey seminar!
You really wanna grow, grow, and become the ultimate spirit? Upgrade to an even more expensive seminar?
You really want to be the unlimited happy, highest power human being that can travel the universe? Upgrade to my $500k seminar!!!