It appears to me that relationships are becoming more challenging year by year. Women are behaving more like men, which is kind of scary. People now-a-days generally feel that its alright to cheat, and going through life from one relationship to another is no biggie. Few people hold respect for a relationship. Relationships are treated like cars: if one breaks you get another, or if your bored with one buy another. With so much negativity being drip fed into minds, is it even possible to have a happy long-term relationship anymore? I am beginning to believe it is non-existent like big foot –just a myth- and that everyone breaks up sooner or later. Now I know its not true my parents have been together for 25 years, through thick and thin. But people now are a different kind of species, a throw-away society.

My short years of being an adult I have witnessed hundreds of marriages and relationships fail. I have witnessed even more people having casual sex, and cheating. I can't name one couple that I know that have an amazing relationship.

I am bombarded with negative imput from everywhere. It appears to me that relationships are impossible. From everytime you turn on Tv, to everytime I interact with people around me. You see proof the existence of a throw-away society. Sure, the belief paralminals helps, but there are a lot more challenges than changing one's beliefs.

Maybe this world really is ending? Or as I once heard someone say it has been ending for a long time. Take a look around, it looks like this world is going to hell.

One thing that I have really been thinking about is how one person can effect another, and turn a relationship around just from that person's positive mind state. And I Wondered if that person developed a success mindstate, such as in think in grow rich aimed at a relationship, would he or she be able to have a successful relationship independent of his/her mates knowledge, experience, attitude. Of coarse general attributes that give a relationship a foundation would need to be present. But something that would exceed all negativity. That the person with a success mind state would influence the weaker mind in a postive way that enriched the relationship and blasts through all the obstacles. Could this end divorce, cheating, horedom, and a lot of other relationship problems.

I also started thinking if one person is enlightened could he/she bring about enlightenment in their partner as say any other interaction with a spiritual master. An osmosis transfer of knowledge.

Anyones expereince or thoughts?

Joey, your questions are very insightful and valid. An enlightened person transforms the world, by starting with affecting the people around that person. So it is upto each of us to strive to be enlightened ourselves, and not wait or expect for others to change, for once we have transformed ourselves, the world automatically changes.

This is a complex problem that comes from the breakdown of traditional American society. One solution is to move to a country that is still relatively free but with a traditional culture or marry an immigrant from one of those countries. Another option is to join a religion such as the Amish which I'm sure have a low divorce rate. These may seem extreme but the point is that this is not part of the human condition or anything instinctive to humanity but something flawed in our culture. Even in religions that consider this a sin have divorce rates similar to typical Americans, as long as the people are immersed in our popular culture.

When I took sociology classes at a Baptist university one topic was the Baptist divorce rate. According to the text Baptists have a higher divorce rate than some more "traditional" Protestant churches even though Baptists have higher moral standards. The reason given was that Baptists bring in people from all cultures and economic classes when the churches that were compared with them were far more restricted to certain classes and cultures. This brings us back to the basics of rapport, that people like people who are like themselves. That does not mean that you can not have a successful relationship with someone from a different economic, social, cultural, and educational background, if you share strong core values you can, but as a rule of thumb such relationships are less stable.

One interesting book I read recently is "The Birth Order Connection" by Dr. Kevin Leman. I don't buy into his theory that birth order shapes your personality, at least not to the extent Leman teaches, but the book does have some good insights into starting relationships. The chapter "The Most Intimate Date Imaginable" is the most important, giving advice to talk a lot on your first dates, and ask about her childhood, family relationships, values, etc. This way you get to know them much better. Of course it is useful to use NLP skills, but if you want a lasting marriage you will need to really know her, not just establish rapport and link all her values to you.

Enlightenment, whatever that is, won't make you successful. A popular martial arts star who became a Lama ditched his wife and ran off with his babysitter. Tony Robbins, who taught people how to be successful in relationships also divorced even after teaching this stuff for over 10 years. On the other hand, many "normal" people have successful relationships.

There is no way to ensure success but you can put as many factors as you can in your favor.

Yes.

It's not decided by culture, or religion, but by the two people involved in the marriage. Religion and culture can shape the individuals but it is not responsible for their action, they are. They make their choices.

The idea of happy marriage was added somewhere in the thread. Again happiness is an individuals choice. However, once you interact with others you start to modify your world to accomodate others, or not. That or not, may be the key to the other choosing to not remain in the marriage.

It takes two to keep a mrriage together, but only one to break it up. One person alone can not hold a relationship together.

Can someone affect others? Yes of course. How much and in what direction is highly variable. You can't help someone unless they want you to, but you can provide models that others can help but learn from. Maybe not everything is learned, but something at some level will be transferred.

It can be yours and knowledge, wisdom, observance and faith can find it for you.

You are perfection.
Iam2

The Buddhists call this Impermanence.

Nothing lasts forever. People change, so why have attachments?

The next stage after this life is a perfect existance. So why stick around here another second?

Maybe I only get one chance to experience being a being in this physical form, or not. Maybe your role is a singular beacon. Maybe it's to fully experience some aspect of being physical. Maybe it's to sample from many tables. Discouver you path and travel it. If you travel alone or with the company of others is a choice you can make, but so can they.

So is long term marriage possible? Yes. Is it the right path for everyone? I don't know.

You are perfection.
Iam2

The question shouldn't necessarily be whether or not long term marriage is possible, but rather is it desirable?

There are fundamental differences between the reasons for gettting and staying married now vs. in times past. Before it was more or less of an economic necessity for survival. Couples depended upon each other to perform complimentary tasks to maintain a household.

It is no longer that way.

SO why are people getting married now? For love and companionship. Which means, if the love loses its lustre or the companionship becomes unwanted, there is little holding the people back from finding more suitable companions.

Don't look at it as throwaway, see it as liberating. That way, if you or your partner outgrows the other, you don't find yourself stuck in a miserable situation.

Impermenence is inevitable and enlightenment doesn't always help a situation, as in a relationship of equals, it can bring in a teacher-student dynamic that the student very well might resent.

Sounds like you may want to not worry about getting married and start learning what makes a relationship work for you.

-cpc

Okay, now it you are not making a commitment to stay together, why are you getting married? You can have a relationship without marriage. It's not a status symbol. It's a commitment. If you are not ready, then don't do it. If you don't think you can honour your commitment, then don't do it. You have alternative.

If one think that a relationship is a static thing and will not change with time, then one's view may be a bit simplistic. If one chooses to neglect a relationship and allow it to evolve in a direction where it will degenerate, then that too is a choice. All this said, it still requires a commitment from two. One alone can not maintain it. It must be the choice of two.

You are perfection.
Iam2

I went through a difficult divorce and it caused me to start reading books about relationships to try and figure out how problems can be avoided next time. The best book that I found of the subject is "How to get the Love You Want" by Harville Hendrix. In the book he talks about how we attract someone who has some of the negative traits of our parents. It is a real eye openner. When you combine that with the blame game, and the fact that when some people are unhappy, they think that it is the fault of others intead of looking in the mirror, you have the recipe for a high divorce rate. I would highly recommend the book.

Joey, you raised a really good question, that I have been thinking also much recently. I ordered an another book of same author that was recommended by Hobo. Here:

Harville Hendrix: Keeping The Love You Find

I didn´t get it yet, but I viewed sample pages online and I think it´s a good choice for someone searching for two things: 1. the "right" one and 2. life-long relationship with that person.

HenriS

>The question shouldn't necessarily be >whether or not long term marriage is >possible, but rather is it desirable?

This depends on persons, of course. I think that long-term relationship can be much more fulfilling, when both are committed to..

1. each other
2. to grow as individuals
3. as a couple in the relationship

The relationship can change its shape and form in the way, but ideally the love between persons can become so strong by the time that it is finally spiritual (or close). This is my romantic view on this thing.

>the love loses its lustre or the >companionship becomes unwanted, there is >little holding the people back from >finding more suitable companions.

I think here is a lot self-programming: thinking that love will lose its shine sooner or later. We do this self-programming, because there is lot of proof around us - broken marriages, etc. Magical feelings that are common in the early stages can fade away, but don´t let them be everything.

>Don't look at it as throwaway, see it as >liberating. That way, if you or your >partner outgrows the other, you don't find >yourself stuck in a miserable situation.

It seems that people in western countries are really living this time of "liberating". They are very easily thinking that "this didn´t work - let´s try something different". The more you have relationships, the more difficult it´s to trust that this new one is the final. Even people in the "arranged marriages" cultures seem to be much happier in their relationships than people in the western throwaway cultures - this was my personal observation in India. Many westerns may think that those people who had arranged marriages, must be really sad, because they did´t have the chance to choose, but it is far from the truth - of course there is exceptions also in this case.

I say keep it simple. Please read this whole post, not to be a know it all but I really have to something to say here.
The love of your life comes when you stop looking for it. Sounds tricky though, you can't actively stop looking and then expect it to come.
What I mean is seriously and genuinally realize that YOU are responsible for how you feel inside, and that the greatest joy is being in your body, alive and appreciating the moment. It sounds like chessy stuff but I'm telling you it's not.
I was suicidal for years, I was always looking and nothing would ever work out. One day I climbed this huge water tower and I was ready to jump off, thinking that this is it, there's no hope. Well I didn't jump obviously and somehow from that day forward I decided that everything I needed was right in front of me. I decided that if I was to be alone all my life that I would still make it a meaningful and wonderful existence out of it.
This was LIBERATING. I found myself just enjoying being alone. At peace with myself. I realized that years had gone by and I was always searching for someone who would make me feel that feeling we see on the movies and hear in songs. The problem is I didn't understand myself. Once I realized the problem wasn't not being able to find someone, it was wanting to have someone or something outside of myself for wholeness.(This was before I even knew what Buddhism or methods were)I stopped looking and more and more the peace of being alone encompassed me. I saw how trapped some married folks and couples were. Seeing them I saw it was more about "getting" from the other person, a perpetual "you do this, and then I'll do this", eventually each party gets frustrated and heads for the hills.
I felt liberated from having to deal with all that "drama" and wasted energy. I would simply play acoustic or relax in a park. It was simplistically amazing.

Well ladies and gentlemen I went applying for a job at a telemarketing place about a year ago and casually as you would say "excuse me" to someone met THE GIRL. We flow amazingly, completely in love without the neediness. It's wonderful we're best friends and lovers too. However still even in this wonderful relationship I MUST ANNOUNCE, I STILL NEED TO BE PRESENT AND WHOLE IN MYSELF. Thats right you would think that this almost perfect relationship would solve that dillema, well thats it, it doesn't. Me and her have ecstatic love and peace even when we're away. But I notice that even when I start "needing" her I begin to feel that SAME similar feeling I had when I was single. So you see it's a structural and fundemental problem that even in the greatest relationship cannot be solved unless someone is whole and present. Knowing that the future doesn't exist and that the past is only a measly neuron firing in one of the brain lobes. From the place of complete love you will simply obtain all that you need and the special someone will come as well. BUT REMEMBER, even in that relationship where you "Fall in Love", that love will fade into complacency if you start wanting it. So you see this "love" we know of here in America is really just "neediness". True love doesn't want, ask, or strive, it's just there. I tell you that in my relationship of 1 year we hardly ever argue, we always come to compromise, there is flow, laughter, and total rapport intimately and socially. I mean it's literally almost perfect. And I think we met because I cleared out what I thought I needed and just "became". And when you truely are here and now it will shine and I guarantee someone will see it.
Again I must say that even in my relationship she is still her own independent person as am I. There's no clinging or entrapment. If I start needing her I swear it's like I'm turning the wheel of suffering all over again. It's a hard thing to realize but staying in the moment loving yourself unconditionally, and being whole in yourself is really where your suffering ends. And if I sound cheesy or buddhish I guarantee you'll understand the clarity of this when you find that one.
So I say that self peace(and all that other tree hugging talk lol) is the quantum leap to surpassing all maybes and what ifs, it's the homerun hit. If you can find peace in yourself you've killed 20 million birds with one stone. It can't help but get better and better when you find it for yourself. Forget this I'm ignorant. Just consider it.

Thanks for sharing ShaneXedge. I agree with everything you've said, but hesitated to take that path in this thread.

I think everyone should learn to love themselves and be fully satisfied within themselves.

I think that you can have a lasting relationship without being in that great place. However, it is easier. You do did much of the perspective you've alluded to, in order to sustain a relationship.

The WIIFM (What's In It For Me) mentality doesn't build a lasting relationship. Needing someone for your happiness is not a sign of dome, but it should be a warning light. A relationship is strongest and most rewarding when you are giving.

Again, I'll end by saying that it still takes two coming at the relationship with an attitude to nurish the relationship to make it last.

You are perfection.
Iam2

You all have wonderful ideals of how relationships should be, and that is just great. We need ideals to work towards.

What should be and is are often two very different things. I just tend to the latter.

Matter of opinion, eh?

-cpc

Of course long term marriage is possible.

You have both got to desire it and value your marital contract. You have to value your connection more than the need for comfort when things get rough.

There are many examples of very old couples who are happy together. Maybe it was easier for them, maybe it wasn't. Living in traditional, socially sponsored roles can make things easier, I guess, than being a person in a world where your roles and the road ahead of you isn't as defined. But I don' think it's easy for a mother to raise 5 kids with no help, and I don't think it's easy to be a man working his tail off day after day to earn money so your wife and 5 kids can have a decent living.

I believe you have both got to value your connection more than the easing of intense pain and very hard times. In other words, you have to be in love, value that love, and believe in it.

It may be that recent generations have far less tradition to live by. We are more selfish. The world around us is changing faster and more constantly than ever.

What it is to be a man and woman, together or apart, are not defined for us in as clear terms. I suppose we have to either reach back into our pasts, or create something new and believe in it, stick to it.

That being said, I do not know if I am up to the task, or if I wil meet someone for whom I will desire to make those kinds of sacrifices.

Everything is impermanent and does change. Yet, hanging on to the mast, through storm after storm, so you can get to your destination can certainly be worthwhile. If you let go, you might drown ... you might wash up on a beautiful island with many lovely native women ... who knows? Each choice, I think, contains a sacrifice as well as a gain in it.