Posted By: Rick2004 Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 12/17/04 10:22 AM
This is what I found on the centerpointe discussion forum. I am worried about this, because if Hutchison is right, many holosyncers like me have a problem. Your reactions would be appreciated.

Dear David,

I have much to say about the holo sync process, none of it good. Among other things I suggest you look up on internet such words as Beta brain waves head injury brain damage (that would be one search) and also kindling effect brain. Also brainwave hypersynchrony and brain damage. These are just a few the starting points. I will tell more when I have time but right now I am in the middle of some difficulties. I am suffering from pneumonia, I had a DVT (deep vein thrombosis, or blood clot) for which I am taking medication to keep the blood clot from breaking loose and causing pulmonary thrombosis,
heart stroke, or brain hemorrhage. I am suffering from a high fever and am supposed to be staying in bed all the time. So maybe you can write me with what you find and with what your effects of overload have been- I have heard almost the exact same list of symptoms from other users of Centerpoint
tapes as well as in scientific articles about kindling in the brain and brainwave hypersynchrony. Stay in touch please and thank you for writing. Yours truly,
Mike

Peace / Light
David





Posted By: ph0t0reader Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 12/17/04 11:38 PM
What are the symptoms?





Posted By: Tore Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 12/19/04 12:40 AM
Hi there!

I dont know about brain damage but I cant use Awakened Minds product Concentration (using brainwave-sync to get more concentrated...) any more. For some reason I get a really bad headache when I use that cd. At first it was allright but I overused it. Sat with the cd for 3 hours straight (it should work, no constraints for length of use) and later on the headaches got me.

One person over at the holosync-board has talked about getting dyslexic because of Holosync. Although, it was worth it (says Margaret somewhere, if I dont remember wrong).

And I think that some beneficial habits (regarding memory, reading, etc) might get negativly effected by HS. It seems Im not as sharp memorywise as before.

But it is really hard to know these things without maintaining rigid journals of experiences or test of performance before, during and after. So I wont say that much about the accuracy of this.

Brain-damage? Dunno, but there have been posts over at the hs-board (ezboard.com) from ppl who have had really negative experiences with Holosync.

Ill stick with Awakened Minds (the same problems might surface as with HS) for the time beeing.

No need to get too carried away with fear of brain-damage altho. Im sure more ppl would have talked about it.

/Tore





Posted By: loverofcats1948 Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 12/19/04 12:03 PM
I have been a member of Holosync (centrepoint) for nearly two years now and don't know about a Forum, in fact it troubled me that we don't seem to be able to speak with other members as we can on this site. Please could you tell me or p.m. me how I find this forum.





Posted By: Alex K. Viefhaus Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 12/19/04 12:21 PM
Been posted before in Beyond Human.

http://pub28.ezboard.com/bcenterpointe

Alex





Posted By: jeffdengr Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 12/20/04 08:29 AM
It really sounds as if Mr Hutchinson has suffered alot of misfortune lately and is looking to fix blame elsewhere. I see no shred of any truth to this.

With the kind of luck he is experiencing he would do better taking a look at his Feng Shui.





Posted By: NickR Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 12/20/04 10:07 AM
I really would recommend staying away from the Centerpointe forum. It's incredibly negative and I have found little benefit from it. Holosync does bring up negative symptoms, but physical brain damage. I think not!
I have gone through periods of mood swings. poor focus and the recurrence of childhood nightmares. But deep inner work does occasionally result in upheaval. If after years of inactivity you started training to run in a marathon, would you not expect some discomfort. I began Matt Fureys Combat Conditioning at the beginning of the year, after the first day I could hardly walk down the stairs;now I feel great.
Use the support line, post here (this is a far more helpful forum). If things seem really bad, take a break, I have done so for several weeks and it helped.
I have read Hutchisons book Megabrain, but he is not an authority. Trust yourselves and your own experience.





Posted By: ph0t0reader Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 12/20/04 10:16 AM
I’m unsure if I have developed dyslexia and also assumed all the problems I was having were attributable to having dentistry etc and not holosync. I feel like I have gone down a level in intelligence almost. I now longer can spell words I could before. My memory is bad, for instance I sometimes don’t even remember what day it is, I sometimes don’t remember the meaning of very simple words, struggle to remember things on a whole.





Posted By: watcher05 Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 12/21/04 05:05 AM
Hey NickR,

Yeah, I agree, there can be negativity over at the forum but its not all doom and gloom. There are some really good, intriguing conversations. Just stay focussed on the positives and ignore the rest. Sure, people can be drawn into the drama of a particular thread but I suppose this is a reflection of the diversity of people that is found over there. No one has to take heed of any of the posts if they don’t want to, its their choice.

This forum is great but activity isn’t very high, although the history content is quite good. So keep on posting everyone.








Posted By: Frodo02 Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 02/03/05 05:39 AM
Rick2004 posted one part of a thread from the EzBoard here dealing with a claim the holosync might be unsafe.

Here is the response from Bill Harris.

I read this post when it first came up and decided to email Bill at holosync to see what he had to say. They said they got a few people asking about this so Bill made an 'official' reply to
Mr Hutchinson's comment.

Here's the reply:

>I have seen the posting in which Michael Hutchinson's comments about
>Holosync were discussed. Here is my response.
>
>First of all, to my knowledge, Michael Hutchison has never used Holosync
>and has never studied it. To my knowledge, he has no personal or
>scientific knowledge about Holosync other than what is available to the
>rest of the general public. The fact that he would make disparaging
>comments, in which he implies that Holosync is harmful - without having
>any actual evidence - in itself says something about his credibility.
>
>
>He has NO evidence for any of the claims he is making. In actual fact,
>Holosync is not harmful, any more than are any of the dozens of other
>binaural beat products made by dozens of other companies. Binaural beat
>technology has been around for a long time and has been available in
>various forms for decades. To my knowledge, no harmful response to ANY
>binaural beat product has ever been demonstrated, other than intermittent
>emotional upheaval similar to that created by any kind of deep meditation.
>
>We would not have tens of thousands of people using Holosync, a huge
>percentage of whom continue through level after level over many years of
>daily use, if the program was not benefiting them or was harming them in
>some way. And, Ken Wilber, a noted expert in meditation, would not be
>recommending Holosync (which he has used extensively) to all the students
>in his Integral Institute seminars, if it was harmful. The same could be
>said for a huge list of other prominent endorsers.
>
>I don't believe the National College of Naturopathic Medicine would be in
>the process of creating a clinical trial to study Holosync if they thought
>it was harmful. I am also in communication with Andrew Newberg, M.D.
>(author of Why God Won't Go Away, about brain scans of Buddhist monks and
>Franciscan nuns, and a professor at the University of Pennsylvania)
>regarding creating a brain-scan study of Holosync users. I don't believe
>that such respected people would be involved with Holosync if it was harmful.
>
>Hutchison suggests three searches on Google to bolster his suggestion that
>Holosync is harmful. One was for beta brain waves head injury damage. I
>did such a search, and could find nothing in dozens of web pages listed
>that had any connection with Holosync or binaural beat technology. I
>invite you to do a similar search. If you do, you'll see that there is
>nothing to be found linking Holosync or any other brain wave entrainment
>protocol to anything harmful.
>
>It may be that certain brain injured patients create more low frequency
>brain waves, but that does not mean that low frequency brain waves are
>harmful. You make them all the time, and you make lots of them during sleep.
>
>And, the pictures I found on these web pages of brain scans of such
>patients are nothing like those of meditators. After all, these are people
>with brain injuries.
>
>No connection whatsoever is made in any of these web pages that would show
>anything about Holosync, or that it creates any harm. Certainly if I
>thought Holosync was in any way harmful, we would stop marketing it.
>
>A second suggested search is for hypersynchrony. Here is something from a
>page in which the term is defined
>(<http://core.ecu.edu/psyc/grahamr/DW_3311Site/LectureF/Lecture4.1/Lect4.1.html):"core.ecu.edu/psyc/grahamr...4.1.html):
>
>About 2 million people in the United States suffer from epilepsy, and none
>can be cured of it. Epilepsy is not a disease; it is a collection of
>different brain dysfunction symptoms all involving seizure activity. A
>seizure is a brain state involving the organization of massive numbers of
>neurons into patterns of abnormal activity. The abnormality of these
>patterns can be readily seen in an EEG record. The most outstanding
>feature of seizure activity is hypersynchrony, which shows up on the EEG
>as very large, slow waves.
>
>Hypersynchrony (hyper-, too much; -syn-, together; -chron, time) refers to
>a condition in which there is too much simultaneous facilitation. There
>are too many EPSPs occurring together at the same time. LP #31 shows the
>EEG evidence of the drastic reorganization occurring in the brain as an
>epileptic seizure begins. The high-amplitude waves in the seizure imply
>that literally millions of neurons are firing together in gigantic
>volleys. This activity resembles the sort one finds in some forms of coma.
>Thus, it is not surprising that such waves are usually accompanied by
>total loss of consciousness. The small, high-frequency activity of the
>normal waking brain probably indicates the firing of relatively small
>assemblies of neurons (engrams), each of which represents a particular
>thought or perception. The huge waves of a seizure suggest that neurons
>that would normally participate in patterns of activity underlying
>thoughts or percepts are being forced to fire in giant groups that
>represent nothing at all, that convey no meaning because they are
>assembled by some defective internal process rather than by meaningful
>external or internal events. In other words, seizure waves contain no
>information; they are nonsense events and are therefore unable to produce
>a conscious state.
>
>
>
>First of all, I see no reference to Holosync or binaural beats, and did
>not see any such references in the other web pages that came up in the
>search. More specifically, I have never heard of a single case in which
>any kind of binaural beat technology has induced an epileptic event in any
>person, ever. The flickering lights of light and sound machines can and
>have created seizures in a few people, but no one has ever demonstrated
>that sound can induce seizures, and certainly no such effect has ever been
>linked to binaural beats or to Holosync. To link Holosync to epilepsy
>because Holosync creates synchronization and hypersynchrony occurs in
>epilepsy in the brain is faulty logic, as is the assumption that brain
>synchronization--which has been shown to be very beneficial--is the same
>as hypersynchrony. For Hutchison to make such accusations is at the very
>least mentally lazy. There is no evidence of any kind, anywhere,
>connecting Holosync to the phenomena Hutchison cites.
>
>A third search Hutchison suggests is for kindling effect. Here is a
>description of kindling effect from one of the web pages that came up in
>such a search.
>
> KINDLING EFFECT
>
> G.V. Goddard and his associates in 1969 reported a peculiar kindling
> effect generated by repeated, periodic, low-intensity stimulation of the
> limbic region of mammalian brains. A sustained periodic signal input to
> the brain and central nervous system eventually sets up a cumulative
> resonance which increases in magnitude until the entire organism is in
> sympathetic resonance.
>
> A laboratory rat at first continues to explore its environment in a
> normal manner when it is subjected to kindling. But after repeated
> stimulation at the same intensity, the rat will begin to rear up and its
> forelimbs will convulse. Eventually these bursts of electrical activity
> induce similar patterns in nearby brain regions, and the threshold
> becomes progressively lowered. Stimulation progresses to the amygdala,
> to the amygdala on the other side of the brain, to the hippocampus, to
> the occipital cortex, and finally to the frontal cortex. Kindling can
> start only in the limbic structures.
>
> While kindling was originally thought to be a model of epilepsy, John
> Gaito of York University has reported that a different mechanism is
> apparently involved since the amino acid, taurine, which suppresses
> epileptic seizures in laboratory animals, does not prevent phenomena
> caused by kindling. Also, kindling apparently causes permanent changes
> in the neural circuitry. Pulsed repetitions of telepathic senders have
> also been shown to increase the reception of telepathic messages. Thus
> the kindling effect apparently applies to the paranormal channel as well
> as to more orthodox transmission channels. (For further details, see
> "Kindling, once epilepsy model, may relate to kundalini," Brain/ Mind
> Bulletin, Vol. 2, No.7, February 21, 1977; pp. 1-2.)
>
> The kindling mechanism is a far more general mechanism than epilepsy
> researchers have realized. Coherent time collection of bioenergy in one
> bioframe "kindles" toward the threshold of the next bioframe, which has a
> fixed threshold. When sufficient kindling occurs to reach the threshold,
> automatic orthogonal rotation of the kindled bioenergy occurs into the
> next frame. There it simply constitutes the kindling or superposition of
> the imperceivable subquantum state into the perceivable quantum
> state. This is the mechanism whereby one kind of field can be turned
> into another. E.g., thought energy (third biofield) can be kindled into
> second biofield (flux), which can be kindled into first biofield
> (electromagnetic energy), which can be kindled into zeroth biofield (matter).
>
>Does this seem to be describing something harmful? And, does it mention
>Holosync, or brain wave synchrony created by binaural beats?
>
>Here is another article from the internet regarding kindling. Again you
>will see that it has nothing to do with Holosync or binaural beats.
>The "Kindling" Model in Bipolar Disorder
>from <by"bipolar.about.com/cs/brai...age.htm>by Marcia
>Purse
>
>If a bipolar person goes untreated for a period of years, could he or she
>begin to experience rapid cycling, or become treatment-resistant? If
>stressors initially set off episodes, in time could episodes appear
>without any such triggers? Research says the answer to all these questions
>is yes, and the reason may be a process that has been termed "kindling."
>
>The phenomenon of kindling in epilepsy was first discovered by accident by
>researcher Graham Goddard in 1967. Goddard was studying the learning
>process in rats, and part of his studies included electrical stimulation
>of the rats' brains at a very low intensity, too low to cause any type of
>convulsing. What he found was that after a couple of weeks of this
>treatment, the rats did experience convulsions when the stimulation was
>applied. Their brains had become sensitized to electricity, and even
>months later, one of these rats would convulse when stimulated (History,
>199 FPRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=8)" . Goddard and others later demonstrated that it was possible to
>induce kindling chemically as well (Hargreaves, 1996.)
>
>The name "kindling" was chosen because the process was likened to a log
>fire. The log itself, while it might be suitable fuel for a fire, is very
>hard to set afire in the first place. But surround it by smaller, easy to
>light pieces of wood - kindling - and set these blazing, and soon the log
>itself will catch fire. Dr. Robert M. Post of the National Institute of
>Mental Health (USA) is credited with first applying the kindling model to
>bipolar disorder (NARSAD). Demitri and Janice Papolos, in their excellent
>book The Bipolar Child, describe this model as follows:
>
>..... initial periods of cycling may begin with an environmental stressor,
>but if the cycles continue or occur unchecked, the brain becomes kindled
>or sensitized - pathways inside the central nervous system are reinforced
>so to speak - and future episodes of depression, hypomania, or mania will
>occur by themselves (independently of an outside stimulus), with greater
>and greater frequency.
>
>Thus, to put it simply, brain cells that have been involved in an episode
>once are more likely to do so again, and more cells will become sensitized
>over time. This theory has been borne out by some research observations.
>For example, "there is evidence that the more mood episodes a person has,
>the harder it is to treat each subsequent episode..." thus taking the
>kindling analogy one step further: that a fire which has spread is harder
>to put out (Expert Consensus, 1997).
>
>Thus, many researchers now believe that kindling contributes to both rapid
>cycling and treatment-resistant bipolar disorder, and this model also is
>consistent with cases where cycling began with definite mood triggers,
>stressful or exciting events, and later became spontaneous.
>
>In addition, it has been shown that substances such as cocaine and alcohol
>have their own kindling effects which can contribute to bipolar kindling.
>In fact, it was the knowledge that cocaine causes seizures that led Dr.
>Post to connect kindling in epilepsy with mood disorders, after he had
>studied the unexpected effects of cocaine on severely depressed patients
>(NARSAD). A study led by Dr. Joseph Goldberg found that patients diagnosed
>with both bipolar disorder and substance abuse were much more likely to
>respond to treatment that included an anticonvulsant/mood stabilizer,
>divalproex (Depakote) or carbamazepine (Tegretol), with or without
>Lithium, than treatment with Lithium alone. At the same time, patients who
>had bipolar disorder but no history of substance abuse had similar
>remission rates with both types of treatment. Dr. Goldberg did note that
>more controlled studies are needed on the role of anticonvulsants in
>treating dual diagnosis patients. (Substance Abuse, 2000)
>
>As a result of many studies involving the kindling model, many researchers
>now stress the need for early and aggressive treatment of bipolar
>disorder, to prevent the brain from becoming more and more sensitized and
>going into rapid cycling or treatment resistant manic depression. A 1999
>study also indicated that a significantly higher percentage of dual
>diagnosis patients had a history of medication noncompliance - which could
>suggest that kindling had more time to take place when no medication was
>being taken. (Substance Abuse, 2000) What does all this mean for the
>bipolar patient?
>
>Take your medications as prescribed. Stopping treatment now could make
>your condition actually worsen and become more difficult to treat in the
>future.
>
>If you have not been diagnosed but feel you may be manic depressive, seek
>treatment, the sooner the better.
>
>Be honest with your prescribing doctor if you have an alcohol or drug
>problem, so he or she can evaluate your medication therapy accordingly.
>
>
>
>Again, there is no evidence that Holosync, or any type of binaural beat,
>creates this kindling effect. Even if it did, there is no evidence that
>any of the negative effects of kindling mentioned have ever happened to
>Holosync users or to users of any other binaural beat product. Again, this
>is faulty, lazy, irresponsible logic. It is in the same realm as saying
>that people are killed by sharks in the waters off Miami, proving that
>water is a cause of shark attacks.
>
>Michael Hutchison wrote a book twenty years ago about technologies that
>affect consciousness. In doing so he met and spoke with several scientists
>who had done some work with binaural beat technologies, and he read the
>available literature on this subject (of which there isn't a lot). Michael
>Hutchison, however, is not a scientist, and is not the expert on this
>subject most people give him credit for being. I would hazard a guess that
>he is familiar with little if any literature that I am not also familiar
>with. In addition, I have twenty years of experience with this technology,
>with over 160,000 users givng me feedback--something Hutchison cannot say.
>
>In its possibility of (supposedly) creating these negative reactions in
>users, Holosync is technologically no different than any of the other
>binaural beat products on the market, including those Hutchison has
>created himself. Yet Hutchison isn't making defamatory statements about
>any other binaural beat products. Hutchison has zero information about
>Holosync, and zero evidence that ANY binaural product creates any of these
>problems. Perhaps he should confine his comments to subjects about which
>he knows something.
>
>
>In short, Holosync has withstood the test of time. We've been around since
>1989, and the company continues to grow at a huge pace because Holosync
>works and does what we say it will do. A minuscule number of people return
>the product for a refund, and we receive many letters every day from
>people telling us about the positive changes they experience as they use
>it. None of the effects Hutchison cites has ever been linked to Holosync,
>and no one, to my knowledge, has ever complained about anything that
>resembles those effects.
>
>Hopefully, this will put this ridiculous matter to rest.
>
>Be well.
>
>Bill Harris
*********************
Here is the complete link from this thread.

http://p072.ezboard.com/fcenterpointefrm16.showMessageRange?topicID=126.topic&start=21&stop=40







Posted By: Jeanne Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 02/03/05 02:40 PM
Interesting thoughts on this thread!

However, as I read, two thoughts come to mind:

1. As noted earlier, Michael Hutchinson sounds as though he is in dire straits--my prayers go out to him. One of his earlier books inspired some of my explorations, for which I will always be grateful!

2. His letter could end up being fodder for litigation as his claims, if unproven, are damaging to CP and perhaps others who use the same or similar technology.

I can't imagine the CDs I have causing brain damage, but then I used them as advised in the instructions. Even with "over" use, the results he mentions seem unlikely at best.





Posted By: Fear Not! Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 02/04/05 06:53 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne:
Interesting thoughts on this thread!

However, as I read, two thoughts come to mind:

1. As noted earlier, Michael Hutchinson sounds as though he is in dire straits--my prayers go out to him. One of his earlier books inspired some of my explorations, for which I will always be grateful!

2. His letter could end up being fodder for litigation as his claims, if unproven, are damaging to CP and perhaps others who use the same or similar technology.

I can't imagine the CDs I have causing brain damage, but then I used them as advised in the instructions. Even with "over" use, the results he mentions seem unlikely at best.



You clearly have a bias. Just because you "can't imagine the CDs I have causing brain damage" doesn't mean they won't, your speculation on whether such potential or actual damage is unlikely is groundless, it's only your speculation with bias, unless you have more supporting evidence to share with readers.

Bill Harris discredits Hutchison of not being a scientist or expert in the brain research, but is he himself a scientist or expert in brain science? Hutchison researched extensively 20 years ago when he wrote the megabrain book, he interviewed and worked with many scientists and experts in the field. Binaural beat paper was published around the turn of the century and there were a lot of research papers and studies done by the time Hutchison conducted his research, Bill Harris didn't have more scientific data on binaural beat studies than what was available to Hutchison, there has not been any significant new discoveries about binaural beat technology now than 20 years ago to make Hutchson an uninformed or outdated expert in this field.

Regarding your second thought, I wonder why you didn't apply that same logic to Bill Harris' unproven claims? Such claims "could end up being fodder for litigation", don't you think?

peace and love to all.

[This message has been edited by Fear Not! (edited February 03, 2005).]





Posted By: garics Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 02/03/05 07:03 PM

Her claim wasn't groundless, it was based on her personal experience of using the CD's. And perhaps even knowing others who are using the CD's. YOU are the one DEFENDING Michael Hutchison's claims that holosync causes brain damage; where is your evidence?

[This message has been edited by garics (edited February 03, 2005).]





Posted By: Fear Not! Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 02/03/05 07:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by garics:

Her claim wasn't groundless, it was based on her personal experience of using the CD's. And perhaps even knowing others who are using the CD's. YOU are the one DEFENDING Michael Hutchison's claims that holosync causes brain damage; where is your evidence?


[This message has been edited by garics (edited February 03, 2005).]


Actually I am not defending the "brain damage claim", I mearly pointing out that the poster 's "thoghts" that these cds cannot cause brain damage is groundless, just because she or people she knows didn't have brain damage does not exclude the possibilty that they COULD!

Let me illustrate: an alleged rapist was caught and was put on trail, a female came to his defense: I know this man, he is hramless, I also know other people who said he is harmless, we actually all found him very friendly and very helpful, none of us was ever rapped or even slightly offended by him, therefoe, I would like this court to consider my THOUGHT that this man can not be a rapist. Even though what she said is true, would you agree that her conclusion that this man can not be a rapist is indeed GROUNDLESS?

I am pazzled why so many "logical minds" in this forum all in a sudden became illogical? Where in my post that I voiced my view that Holosync cds WILL in deed damage the brain?

peace and love to all.

[This message has been edited by Fear Not! (edited February 03, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by Fear Not! (edited February 03, 2005).]





Posted By: garics Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 02/03/05 07:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fear Not!:
Actually I am not defending the "brain damage claim", I mearly pointing out that the poster 's "thoghts" that these cds cannot cause brain damage is groundless, just because she or people she knows didn't have brain damage does not exclude the possibilty that they COULD!

I am pazzled why so many "logical minds" in this forum all in a sudden became illogical? Where in my post that I voiced my view that Holosync cds WILL in deed damage the brain?

peace and love to all.


You were defending Michael Hutchison's credentials, for some reason...if not to defend his claims against those of Bill Harris, them please explain why?

It is not groundless because there are a lot of people on this forum who have used holosync and not a single one of them seems to conclusively think that holosync has produced brain damage in their case. That DOES constitute evidence. Not ultimately conclusive evidence, but it certainly is more
convincing than the other side of the argument if you ask me.

And yes, there is no way to prove that it absolutely COULDN'T produce brain damage. There is also no way to conclusively prove that eating cereal for breakfast COULDN'T ever produce brain damage, but I'm sure not going to waste my time thinking about it unless prompted by someone like you.





Posted By: Fear Not! Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 02/03/05 08:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by garics:
You were defending Michael Hutchison's credentials, for some reason...if not to defend his claims against those of Bill Harris, them please explain why?

Yes, because I read Bill Harris' attacks on Hutchson's credentials, his claims that he has access to scientif papers that were not available to Hutchson, I mearly pointing out to readers that if Hutchson does not have the credential and expertise, what kind of expertise and credentials Harris has? Again, it's about fairness and objectivity, I point out the flaws in Harris' arguement, I invite objective response and reasoning from readers or Harris himself, this is objective discussion. This is not "defend his claims against those of Bill Harris".

peace and love to all.

[This message has been edited by Fear Not! (edited February 03, 2005).]





Posted By: babayada Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 02/03/05 10:29 PM
Fear Not,

You claim to be objective and rational (if at least by implication) while you apparently fail to see the emotionality and subjectivity of your point of view.

You may be worse off that the people you criticize.






Posted By: Fear Not! Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 02/03/05 11:03 PM
quote:
Originally posted by babayada:
Fear Not,

You claim to be objective and rational (if at least by implication) while you apparently fail to see the emotionality and subjectivity of your point of view.

You may be worse off that the people you criticize.


thank you for your "honesty".

1. could you be more specific about my "emotionality and subjectivity"?

2. I never criticize anyone being "bad", therefore "worse" has no place in this context. I was not trying to force any views or opinions on people, just pointed out that I do not agree with some opinions expreessed in some posts and expressed my contradicting opinions. Are you suggesting that if I agree with everything that is said here according to your judgement, than I would be "better" as opposed to "worse" than those I "agreed with"?

peace and love to all.


[This message has been edited by Fear Not! (edited February 03, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by Fear Not! (edited February 03, 2005).]





Posted By: babayada Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 02/04/05 12:39 AM
1) Read your own posts and see if you can tell me.

2) These are a series of euphemisms and semantic evasions.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited February 04, 2005).]





Posted By: garics Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 02/04/05 02:18 PM
You also never responded to my refutation of the "groundless" claim regarding Jeanne's post. I pointed out that of the (probably 100 or so) folks who post here who have had short to mid term use of holosync, there is no first hand evidence available definitively indicating brain damage, in anyone's case.
There is also no first hand account of such a phenomenon available anywhere on the internet or anywhere else, to the best of my knowledge. And this is a program that has had thousands and thousands of users, a much larger population than the "simple random sample" used by drug companies in the approval process for one of their new products.

So its really not groundless for someone to suggest based on the evidence that they feel brain damage is unlikely.

You never responded to that, as well as a host of other things. So maybe if you truly believe that people ought to stand by what they say, be honorable and "objective" etc, you could get the ball rolling by doing it in your own case.





Posted By: babayada Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 02/06/05 02:11 AM
Garic,

I think he trusts his ideas about what people should believe more than their actual experience and their ability to think and act intelligently based on the information that their experience gives them.

People are not to be trusted because their judgements are tainted by their subjectivity. Thus, they have to go to other objective, scientific sources from which they can gather valid information.

Apparently, people should trust studies about their experiences done by others rather than their first hand knowledge.






Posted By: ph0t0reader Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 02/28/05 09:38 PM
Very sorry for my last post. My symptoms are the result of metal toxicity with tests showing high amounts of lead/cadmium/mercury and have absolutely nothing to do with the holosync as i mistakenly thought. I still have received no results from holosync after several years, just no ill effects.





Posted By: JosieWales Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 03/08/05 05:17 PM
What Centerpointe discusion forum? Please post the URL.

If you research it you will find that the Centerpointe Discussion Forum was discontinued about 4 years ago. Afterwords an interested individual started a private forum on Yahoo Groups. However, do to abuses, much the same experienced by the original Centerpointe Forum, it was also closed down.

I started and ran that forum.

Most people that attack Bill Harris and the Centerpointe Holosync program are primarily upset about the cost of the program. They use immature and absurd accusations to attack Bill Harris and the program. To them I suggest another program, The Sedona Method, let it go baby, just let it go, and while your at it, get a life.

Now for the same diatribe I posted countless times in MY, not Centerpointes, not Bill Harris’, forum….

1. If you purchase the program and don’t like it send it back and get your money back.

2. Holosync isn’t for everyone. Doesn’t claim to be.

3. Holosync isn’t a cult. Anyone who thinks so is delusional.

4. If it’s causing you problems to use Holosync… STOP USING IT!!! You fool!!!

There, I feel better.

Still syncing along,
Joe








Posted By: alvinmc Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 03/11/05 02:59 AM
Joe,

As one who is considering trying Holosync, tell me what you like about the program and what you think it has done for you. And why it is better than others out there.

It *appears* to me that the recordings of rain and the bowls have been done with high quality recording mics and electronics (just based on the sample I was sent). Some "high end" CD music lables say this is one way they separate themselves. Of course, this has nothing to do with the technical aspects or efficacy of the underlying program, which is the point of it all.

Thanks--





Posted By: alvinmc Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 03/11/05 03:13 AM
And I forgot to ask: I received an email saying it had been a month since I'd requested the sample, and they were now offering free shipping (big woop) and 2 other freebies:

"First, I want to "bribe you" with a free copy of my highly acclaimed book, Thresholds of the MInd. Jack Canfield, author of the Chicken Soup for the Soul books, and many other bestselling authors and world-famous personal growth teachers, have said that this book contained information that literally changed their lives.

Next,I also want you to have a 5-CD set of my talks at a Centerpointe retreat, worth $159.00. Thousands of people have paid up to $2,200.00 to learn this material at a Centerpointe retreat, but it's yours free as my way of saying "I'm sorry." "

I don't know what the "I'm sorry" is all about unless two solicitation letters got merged by mistake.

The question: are more and better offers mailed if I don't respond for a while?





Posted By: Jodiamond Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 03/11/05 08:49 PM
I've been using H/S for ages now and I think it has made very a very positive difference to my life. I'm not very far along, I take it very slowly with lots of breaks if I am having a stressful time elsewhere in my life, or simply don't feel like listening for a while.

I have become more productive at work, more able to see another person's point of view when it is diametrically opposed to my own, more likely to just get on with what I need to do rather than procrastinating, better at physical stuff - I'm naturally clumsy and have noticed that things like skiing, which I was never very good at, are easier.

It is possible to feel stressed and overwhelmed when doing H/S. When this happens to me, I just take a break. The Silent Stim tape helps, also Sedona can be useful, or simply knowing when overwhelm is going to strike and stopping H/S for a while.

Jodi





Posted By: weight39doug Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 03/12/05 05:13 AM
The holosync discussion board is at http://pub28.ezboard.com/bcenterpointe





Posted By: JosieWales Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 03/15/05 06:07 AM
I'll just comment on the top three things that I have gained with holosync.

1. I enjoy life a lot more, I don't care nor do I worry about what people think of me. My wife would often say I was being paranoid, but not anymore. Basically I'm a happier man, not angry.

2. I no longer take medication for depression I just plain quit taking it. And I was on some pretty strong drugs, Elavil and Welbutrin.

3. I get sensations of euphoria the likes of which I don't remember since I was a child. When I'm with other people, or working with other people I get a wonderful sense love. These feeling that I get becomes more pronounced and comes on faster and lasts longer as I continue with holosync. I quit using holosync for a couple of months and those feelings and frequency of those euphoric episodes diminished. Now let me clarify; I can't put all of the credit for this with Holosync, I think the Sedona Method contributes to this also.

Personally, the sound of the meditation bowls and rain does nothing for me, and at first I found it rather irritating. I still don't find it soothing, I just put up with it. Whatever the background noise, it is immaterial, it's the function of the binaural beats that is important.

Keep in mind that you have nothing to loose trying the program, if it isn’t for you, get your money back.

Sync about it,
Joe


quote:
Originally posted by alvinmc:
Joe,

As one who is considering trying Holosync, tell me what you like about the program and what you think it has done for you. And why it is better than others out there.

It *appears* to me that the recordings of rain and the bowls have been done with high quality recording mics and electronics (just based on the sample I was sent). Some "high end" CD music lables say this is one way they separate themselves. Of course, this has nothing to do with the technical aspects or efficacy of the underlying program, which is the point of it all.

Thanks--








Posted By: SpiritualMinds Re: Michael Hutchison and Holosync - 06/02/05 06:56 PM
Interesting thread...

I've read Michael Hutchison's book Megabrain several times. It is peculiar for him to claim that Holosync is 'dangerous' when his book has a whole chapter devoted to sound and lots of information on binaural beats. All written from the perspective of positive benefits. Has Hutchison come to the conclusion that all binaural beats are bad? Is he concerned specifically about Holosync because of the lower frequencies than typical binaural beats? What would be the difference between Holosync, Hemisync,or Dane Spott's VERY LOW frequency technologies?

I've used Holosync for four years and don't have any brain damage I am aware of. That said, transendental meditation, without holosync or any technlogical assistance, does have the potential for problems in some people.

As Bill Harris says himself, the real beauty of meditation is that it pushes your brain beyond it's current limits where it is forced to reorganize at higher levels. This for me has always turned out positive and I assume for 99.999% of people it would.

But let's say for example you have a pre-existing brain aneurysm. I'm no neuro expert... But I'm not so sure that I would put on an hour of Holosync Level 4 before going into surgery the next day; simply because the structures of the brain are compromised because of the aneurysm and may simply not be able to handle the stimulus and reorganize as a healthy brain would. So I believe the safety factor of Holosync is much like that of a long distance runner. Fine for 99.9% of people to do but if you have a heart valve defect or a clogged artery it could be dangerous. I'm just not sure there has been enough research to suggest that it would 100% safe in people that have pre-existing physical defects in brain structure.

Futhermore, I called Centerpointe several years ago because I was having lots of tingling sensations in my brain, feelings like sinus pressure, and my ears would feel like I was at high altitude. Most of the sensations were very pleasureable but some were quiet uncomfortable. The people at Centerpointe told me that it was completely normal to have these sensations and that as my brain chemistry changes and 'evolves' to a higher level there would be strange sensations. That was several years ago and they were very right.

That brings me to my other 'concern' about Holosync that Centerpointe would never talk about. I'm not so certain that I now have the ability to really tell if I were having some sort of physical brain problem that is serious and real, or that I'm just having the common sensations resulting from meditating with Holosync. Because I'm now conditioned to basically ignore all these sensations (good & bad), and I've never had a stroke or aneurysm; I think there could be the possibilty that I could ignore a serious problem in the future, that without doing Holosync, I would have known was serious and would have seeked medical attention.

With all that said... I seriously love doing Holosync, it really does work and I plan to keep doing it. Meditation is not for everyone and even in tradtional meditation there are plenty of critics that claim you can damage your brain. Basically suggesting that for whatever reason, some people's brains do not rise to the challenge and in some way are affected very negatively as a result. While Hutchison tried to get people to look for negative info on Holosync, he could have easily directed people to look up dangers associated with mediation in general. One site, http://www.yogadangers.com/, talks specifically about circumstances when meditation triggers a "Kundalini Awakening." Bill Harris mentions in one of his articles that his early experiences with holosync triggered this in their research. Of course these were much lower frequencies than the awakening prologue starts you out at.


I believe for a healthy, non-diseased brain the physical danger from Holosync or any sort of meditation is next to nothing. But just like thousands of athletea that go out and runs 10 miles everyday, every once in a while there is a person whose cardiovascualar system, cannot handle the stimulous and they have some sort of heart failure.

That is why someone can't suggest that Holosync or meditation can kill you without acknowledging that running, swimming, biking, or just about any intense physical workout can kill people too. But that doesn't mean people stop working out and it doesn't mean that someone shouldn't meditate.

Good luck all!





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