Tons of advertisment from Centerpointe - Forum for PhotoReading, Paraliminals, Spring Forest Qigong, and your quest for improvement

Hi,

I see the issue of Centerpointe sending out too much advertisment coming up in a lot of threads, and wanted to give my opinion about it.
Some people complain Centerpointe sends too much of it. Others say they like receiving information about other good programs.
Some think it depreciates Holosync, under the reasoning that Holosync was supposed to solve everything in the first place.

First I'll say that I fall in the category of those who do appreciate receiving info about other programs. Especially since I really like what Bill Harris has created, things that he endorses do get my attention.

Second, Holosync is not supposed to be a cure-all : it accelerates your personnal growth and solves a very BIG issue : that of stress management. But it does not teach anything in many other areas worthy of attention. It's not Centerpointe's vocation to do wealth management training, relationship counseling, voice training, etc...

Finally, no-one yet seems to have noticed that this is part of a global markleting strategy, that is proving very effective. Centerpointe recommends, say, Gay Hendrick's relationship counseling course, and Gay Hendricks in exchange recommends Holosync. It's a win-win for both as they both get extra customers from the deal, and in the end more people are exposed to Holosync meditation (which I think is a good thing).
Actually, this was how I got into Holosync in the first place : I read CHet Day's newsletter on natural health, where he endorses Holosync, so I went to see Centerpointe's website. I asked to receive the free demo and registered for Mind Chatter, their newsletter. There I learned about Bob Scheinfeld's "Invisible Path" program. I registered to HIS newsletter. then I thought Holosync was too expensive, and asked to be taken off their mailing list. I continued receiving Bob Scheinfeld's newsletter, and finally in one issue he recommended Holosync. That made me go back to their site, and since at that time I had gotten a new job, I finally decided I could afford it.
So the route wasn't direct at all. And probably many customers have a long history of hesitating before purchasing like I did.

I'm quite happy with the way Bill Harris does his marketing.
If you find it annoying, just get off his mailing list, don't go to his site, or choose not to be annoyed !

Beauty (or ugliness, annoyment, etc...) is in the eye of the beholder !

Cheers to all,

Erwan

Erwan,

I completely agree with you. Also everyone who does not like the flood of ads can have it stopped by unsupscribing.

Cheers,

If you like to be brain washed, please keep it to yourself and be considerate for others.

I am sorry but I feel I had to throw in a wet blanket in you, did Bill pay you to brain wash the poor avergae Joe's here? Some people have tough time making the ends meet, they really don't need to be scammed by that con man. Be kind!

quote:
Originally posted by Fear Not!:
If you like to be brain washed, please keep it to yourself and be considerate for others.
I am sorry but I feel I had to throw in a wet blanket in you, did Bill pay you to brain wash the poor avergae Joe's here? Some people have tough time making the ends meet, they really don't need to be scammed by that con man. Be kind!

If you want to offer consructive comments then do so. Nothing in the above post offers a valid point or reasoning. I consider your post a personal attackjust because they have expressed a view about a product and service.

Everyone has the right to offer an opinion. Whether I or anyone else agrees or not, is not the point.

If you wish to disagree offer something constructive otherwise consider your own advise, "please keep it to yourself and be considerate"

Alex

Thanks Alex, point well taken.

I would like to re-word my comment so as to appear "constructive":

Since there is no objective clinical data to back Holosync's claim for the benifits of its products, and since none of the clients who completed the advanced levels of Holosync is willing to come out to share any possitive experience with Holosync, it makes perfect sense to caution any potential buyers, escpecially those un-informed consumers, so that they could make better, more informed decisions whether to spend their hard earned money on something that is full of promises but could not be backed up with any facts and clinical research data, I firmly belief this is constructive, not personal attacking.

Thanks. Peace and Love to all!

They didn't have any objective information that a Car is a good mode of transport when they first invented it. They tried to stop progress on that saying it was a harmful thing. It became popular amongst those that had money and advertising.

I don't know if Holosync will be found to be more effective than other methods but there is evidence that entrainment does alter brainwave. And there is benefit gained by a majority using entrainment systems.

Holosync may not be the best choice for everyone but then not everyone needs to drive a Mack truck on the road either.

I will also concede that the people who warned that cars are a dangerous thing were right. We have to learn to use and respect what we are using. I choose not to ride a motorcycle because the risk of injury is greater and I can argue that they are expnsive and only sold for a glorified image. Still it is a personal choice and just because there is no objective data, everyone who uses it can explore whether they experience any subjective results that may one day be collected and tested objectively.

For the record I am not a Holosync customer. I made my personal decision about the product some time ago.

Alex

This may come as a shock to some, because I have continually spoken in a harsh manner against Centerpointe and its products.

In one of the many discussion on holosync, Erwan suggested that I give holosync a real go with an open mind and then see if it would do anything for me.

I think he did not know that I had given holosync a try and had decided that it really wasn't worth the price and its effects could be duplicated.

I thought about his suggestion and decided to try again. I have been listening to the Awakening Prologue for the past two weeks every day. I have also listened to the Awakened Minds product (Insight), plain binaul beats created by BWGEN, and several hemisync products.

In comparison, I have to say, honestly, that the Awakening Prologue *does* produce a profoundly deep state of meditation. It is considerably deeper than those states produced by any other product I've tried.

Over the past two weeks I have experienced some overwhelm, but I think my experiences with traditional meditation and my background in NLP have helped me accept my experiences and flow through them. I have also already noticed a small but meaningful shift in some of my emotional responses on a daily basis.

I can feel, while listening, that the technology is creating a stable, steady, and peaceful state that underlies pretty much all mental and emotional activity. I can see how continuing this process would produce, more and more, an underlying state of serenity in life.

So, Fear Not, I have to admit from experience that this stuff does work, and for the purpose of meditation it is superior to other products.

I still, however, feel concern over the cost of the product and the system Bill Harris has produced. In my opinion, money is a primary motivation here.

I do not think it will do all those grandiose things advertised. It does, however, produce a palpable result. The question is: is it worth the price?

If you haven't given it an honest try, and I don't know if you have or have not, then you cannot say you are coming from an informed standpoint. If you have, well, then perhaps it doesn't do for you what it does for others.

Alex,

Thanks for your comment. I have great repect for your knowledge, wisdom, and objectivity, but I found your comparing the invention of car to brain entrainment benifit un-intelligent and arguemental. Many here have studied NLP, linguistic patterns and arguementation, we know such arguement will not stand any ground.

Car was invented as means of transportation.

The physical evidence that a car can take you from point A to point A, is solid and sufficient, we don't need research data to prove that. Your comparision may make sense if Mr. Ford advertised that by buying his car you will be able to travel to Moon or Mars if you keep practicing driving and have completed level 12 of driving with 12 new cars that would cost $3,000,000. Mr. Ford advertised cars that is drive-able, that can take you from point A to point B just a horse carriage can, it is more efficient than horse carriage, etc., etc., all are tangible and verifiable, but I am afraid Holosync's claims are not!

Brain entrainment may or may not be helpful to our personal development, and even if it does, there is absolutely not evidence Holosync is better than similar brain entrainment audio products that are available in the market, the technowlogy used in these products are the same, the low carrier frequencies that Bill claimed to be unique to Holosync, is widely available in many other products that are much more cost effective, the technology that can be used produce any audible carrier frequencies or beyond, is available on the Internet, free! anyone with a computer and some basic experience in using a personal computer can easiely produce his or her own brain entrainment cds that are every bit as good as Holosync, actually infinitly better than Holysync, because he or she can control the entrainment frequencies, carrier frequencies, background noises, afirmations, etc., etc., The frequencies used in Holosync, Hemi-Sync and all other products can be analyzed easiely with wave spectrum analyzer programs or physical devices, the analized results have been abailable on the Internet for many years.

Such information were not easiely available to average consumers, but with the growth of Internet and on-line community, they are now!
With the awareness and understanding of what brain entrainment technology is all about, why claims like "our brain entrainment technology is better than my competitors' because we use lower carrier frequencies (or any other fansy technical terms)", become very obvious: they are not true!

My intent is to inform people that there are options available to them if they so decide to take the brain entrainment route, if after knowing they have options and they choose to go with Holosync, I don't have anything against that, it's thier choice, but I believe they deserv to know that there are options and alternatives.

Peace and love to all.

Babayada,

Thanks very much for sharing your experience. I have read your other posts and I have great respect to many of your insights. I just have a question about your experience with all these brain entrainment products:

quote:

I have been listening to the Awakening Prologue for the past two weeks every day. I have also listened to the Awakened Minds product (Insight), plain binaul beats created by BWGEN, and several hemisync products.

How could you tell that these positive effects that you believed are the results from listening to Holosync, are really exclusively from listening to Holosync alone, but not the accumulative effects from your listening to these other products?

Why before Erwan gave you that suggestion, your listening to Holosync was non-effective, and this time around it is different? I could gather at least two factors of influence: A positive suggestion from someone you trust, and those additional listenings you mentioned.

These are just my questions, there is no judgement, no arguement, just questions.

Peace and love to all.

[This message has been edited by Fear Not! (edited February 02, 2005).]

About my first estimate of holosync:

I was really psyched up from reading the propaganda about it and my expectations were much higher than they should have been. I listened for a while, and it did have an effect, but not the one I was looking for. I looked back on how foolish I was for being gullible and stopped listening.

My second, recent, approach was to go into the experience with no expectations, just to experience it as it was and see what happened.

As to your questions about how do I know it was holosync, well, I am assuming you've actually used some of this technology yourself. When you do use it, you can feel the effects it has. The experience of listening to holosync vs. hemisync and others is very distinct. The feeling and the state of mind are different enough as to be easily compared.

As to the cumulative effect of all technologies, I have not listened to hemisync in quite a while, I used to use it A LOT, and I listened to the Awakened Minds cd many times in the past and twice recently to make a comparison. The proximity in time and amount of use of the other products is such that I feel I have made a justifiable comparison.

So, in my subjective experience, take it as you will, holosync is just plain better.

Supposedly there are just binaural beats at a lower carrier frequency ... but I think there may be some extra things going on that Bill Harris doesn't disclose. Jeff referred to this in one of the discussions.

I don't know what causes the difference, because I have played around with binaural beats at the same frequencies using low carrier signals with BWGEN. The experience is just not the same.

In terms of pricing and all the claims, sure, it's a scam.

But if you take away the advertising and hype and use the product as is, it really is very effective.

I think in order to get results you have to come at it with the right mindset and to have various meditational or mental/emotional skills with which to handle what happens during and after your sessions. I think with the bonus lecture CDs in the Awakening Prologue they attempt to do that, but I think a few guided meditations may be better.

I both agree and disagree with you, Fear Not. There is a lot of hooey around holosync, but I have to admit that the product does work. And by work I don't mean do what it's advertised to do. I mean that it brings you into a deep, profound meditational state, and it's better at doing that than the other products I've tried.

I think the results go beyond suggestion, because, believe me, I *wanted* the Insight CD to be better than holosync. Same with hemisync. Same with BWGEN. But, they just aren't.

I certainly wouldn't advise someone to start paying 300 bucks a pop per level of holosync, though.

Its a shame that they aren't more reasonable with their prices.

In terms of spectrum analysis and all that, I really don't know what to say. I have never used one of these programs, and I have not been trained in analyzing that sort of visual data.

If, in fact, holosync is simply rain and crystal bowl or bell sounds with .3 frequency binaural beats delivered at low carrier frequencies ... well, I do not know how to account for the effect. Perhaps it is a gestalt of all the sounds in combination? Perhaps if you took the ambient sounds and just delivered your own, BWGEN created frequencies into it the effects would be identical. I don't know.

These are interesting questions, and perhaps some motivated business person might want to take advantage of the possibility and offer a competitive product that really does it.

Awakened Minds doesn't. Their CD is simply mellow, it's more like a gentle sedative. Hemisync doesn't. While good, I just don't feel as deeply serene and aware.

Don't know what to tell you. Am I perplexed.

One thing you should take notice of, however, and this is what really convinced me to give it another try: notice how caustic I have been and notice how certain individuals have always responded to me in a balanced and calm manner.

These are long standing holosync users. They might be like that naturally, or they might be like that because of persistently using the technology. I am trying a personal experiment of using it for an extended period of time to find out. Check with me in a year and I'll tell you how it's gone.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited February 02, 2005).]

I agree with everyone here - Holosync is a great and wonderful program!

[This message has been edited by shr33m (edited May 06, 2005).]

Shr33m,

I could not say it any better than what you have just said, English is my second language.

I saw so many regular contributors here are advocating Holosync, but none can prove that what they are advocating are not placeble effects, in fact there simply is no sufficient data anywhere to suggest brainwave entrainment has any positive health or spiritual benifit, so I was just trying to make people aware that this might be something that works for some people, but unless they know what they want out of it and believe that they can actually attain them by investing their money, time and energy. I am very troubled by people claiming the benifits of Holosync but were unable to ojectively quantify and prove what they are claiming, many of them also do meditations, have positive personal develpment experience, studied NLP and other self-help programs, or have spiritual awareness, but to disregard or under-play these other positive developments, and praise Holosync as if it really has anything to do the personal development benifits they have accumulated over the years that are the collective result from many products and their positive intentions, their investment in time, money and energies in the development proccess, in my opinion, is really irresponsible.

So please read shr33m's psot carefully, ask yourself what are your objectives in investing such a big sum of money, and time and energy in Holosync? knowing the claimed positive benifits are unproven and unsustanciateble, knowing no one who have actually completed all levels of Holosync listening is willing to come out to share their "positive" experience in the entire Internet communities, knowing that the only known person who completeted all levels of Holosync is not positive about her Holosync experience, knowing that there are more cost effective brainwave entrainment products, knowning that there are other personal and spiritual development paths availeble that more people have walked and more such experience are being shared in the online communities, one really should think more than twice before making his or her own informed decision as whether or not Holysync might be right for them. For those hardcore Holosync supporters, don't accuse me of avocating against Holosync, I am not, I only point out that there are options, and there are questions about the claims from Holosync, and that one shall make use of available informations in making his or her own informed, intelligent decision regarding Holosync.

peace and love to all.

[This message has been edited by Fear Not! (edited February 03, 2005).]

I think that that some people are comfortable with their decision with holosync. Others do not like the price or the advertising and are currently looking for other means.

Your approach, Shr33m, is extremely reasonable but I doubt most people will put such systematic and thorough thought and planning into their decisions.

For my part, I purchased the Awakening Prologue a long time ago, and I currently enjoy the effects it's having on me. Perhaps that will change? Perhaps it won't?

I am not so much interested in spiritual progress through this process, and I am not basing my expectations upon the claims made by the marketing. What I perceive now is that it is helping me reach a more serene state, and I am very curious as to whether or not continued use will bring about a greater sense of calm and balance in my life.

The jury is not out on that as far as I am concerned, so I am very curious as to what is going to happen.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited February 04, 2005).]

Hi Babayada,

I'm very pleasantly surprised to see your reversal of point of view. As you have stated yourself, many posters who are against Holosync have a very harsh and angry attitude, while the long-temr users of Holosync are generally more balanced in their expression, tone, and reasonning. Now I see that in your posts as well, and I am very happy to have been a small part in this positive change. Thanks for having let me help you ever so little !

Even if you ultimately decide against Holosync, your final decision will be a balanced, honest and reasonned one. This is great change. Congratulations !

Big cheers !

Erwan

Hi Shr33m and Fear Not !

I am re-posting the following from the "WHat happens after Holosync" thread.

It's about measurable effects of Brainwave entrainment. And it's not about EEGs, we've all read that kind of stuff dozens of time.

Here it goes :
--------------------------------------
I got tested several times on a device that made measurements of the body's energy field (some call it the "Aura") on the fingertips of the hands and feet. It's similar to, but slightly more elaborate and precise than, Kirlian photography. It was used by my chiropractor/accupuncturist. He used it to determine what energy imbalances there were in my body (and it was pretty accurate, too !). In making the measurement, he had to turn a knob that adjusted for the vibration frequency of the body's energy field. It was like focusing a lens : when the frequency was off my body's frequency, the image of the Aura would be blurry, but with the correct adjustment, the image turned very sharp. I was surprised that there wasn't any preset frequency, but my chiropractor explained to me that A HUMAN BEING'S BASE FREQUENCY IS AN INDIVIDUAL CHARACTERISTIC, just like your size or weight, so there's no one setting that could be good for everyone.
This intrigued me, and since I was experimenting a lot with brainwave entrainment (I hadn't bought Holosync yet at that time) I aksed him if we could try a few things. Since we were quite close, and the idea intrigued him as well, he accepted to do several mesurments before and after using Brainwave entrainment CDs.

There were two results :

1) After listening to half an hour of Theta waves (7,5 Hz), my "Aura", which was, like any normal person's, full of spikes and dents before the listening session, had become all smooth and regular, leaving only some deeper dents (corresponding to my long-temr health issues) which were also smoothed out. The effect was the same as that of doing 1 hour of CHi Gung, or a full session of energy re-balancing by accupuncture (something he charges 75Euro for).
So conclusion 1 :
Theta Brainwave entrainment has measureable positive effects on the body's energy field, which is itself a good measure of one's overall health and well-being.

Result 2 was more surprising...

2) Before and after listening to the Brainwave entrainment CD, my Body's base energy vibration frequency had completely changes.
Before, it was something around 340 Hz, and after, it was 185 Hz. This was almost exactly the carrier frequency I had used for my Brainwave entrainment CD...
This was quite a surprise : sound listened to in earphones had had a direct influence on my whole body�s energy field (not only the ears or the brain).
Conclusion 2 is : there is a clear interaction between the carrier frequency we listen to, and the body�s energy filed.

Holosync states clearly that the lower the carrier frequency, the more powerful the effect on the system (that�s why they want to make it gradual, level by level : so as not to � blast people out of their shoes � with lower carrier frequencies right from the start)

I�ve read for example in science reviews, that Chi Gung grandmasters, when they � projected chi energy through their hands �, were actually producing inaudible vibrations at 70Hz. (These vibrations were inaudible, although they were measured through a microphone. This seems contradictory at first, since 70 Hz is a perfectly audible frequency, it�s in the lower end of the male human voice. Since a microphone is basically made up of a magnet attached to a spring on one side and a membrane on the other side, it is not only capable of measuring air vibration through the membrane, but also variations in the ambiant electric or magnetic field, by direct effect on the magnet.)

The conclusion is that these Chi-Gung grandmasters were channeling 70 Hz electric or magnetic waves through their bodies. This is not only much lower than the average 200-400 Hz frequency for the body�s energy vibration frequency usually measured in most people (according to my chiropractor�s experience on his � aura � machine), but it�s also much lower than Holosync�s Awakening Prologue Frequency (140 Hz). Such a chi-gung grandmqster would probably benefit from using Brainwave entrainment CDs ONLY if the CD�s carrier frequency was lower than 70 Hz. I am currently using Awakening Level 2, whose carrier frequency is 100 Hz. I suppose that to get below 70 Hz one wouldhave to use Purification level 1 or 2�
---------------------------------------

I hope this helps in the global debate about Brainwave technologies and Holosync...

Cheers,

Erwan

PS : Oh, Yes. Since I did those tests, I moved to a new country, and haven't been able to re-do these experiments with the actual Holosync CDs (instead of my awkward homebrew CDs). But I do think that the above observations would still apply to Holosync.

quote:
Originally posted by shr33m:

comparing the [b]efficiencies of other alternatives?

shr33m:
How can one conduct a cost/benefit analysis when to do so would require sampling every alternative in its entirety, at the outset of the process?

You should know that the kind of predictive power you are suggesting, can only be rendered on inert matter, flying rocks, and only the most mundane statistical abstractions from living systems.

No science can exercise this level of general predictive power on living mental/ biological systems, certainly not on the personal evolutionary process in a human being. If you are able to do this then why did you try holosync to begin with and go down so many blind alleys?

The personal developmental process is largely an intuitive process that can be aided and informed by, but never reduced to, the kind of left-brained objective analysis you are describing.

quote:
Unless you can actually see energy, use techniques from applied or behavioral kinesiology to gauge the effect of the product on your energy field. Does it reverse your polarity, cause psychological reversal, create blockages, or set you back in further?

You are saying that unless you can find a correlate of the benefits on some objective measurement device, that you would not validate or continue with a given approach. Even if you were angry with people all your life, and suddenly with a given method you become happy and positive, you would not trust this as being "true" or "valid" for yourself unless it showed an objective correlate on some kind of measurement device, or according to some energy system. (The "meaning" of these observable changes is, remember, rendered by us, in our subjectivity.)

The objective measurable changes can inform and possibly refine our internal perception of and sensitivity to the changes afforded by a given approach, but to recommend that they completely negate/replace them is a rather dangerous form of reductionism. Surely by now you trust your internal perceptions more than that?

quote:
If you do decide to go with the program, then for the money you shell out, you should be willing to spend the extra time to draw up a project management plan complete with timelines and continuously check if you are getting the desired expected results at every stage of the process. If the marginal effectiveness is lower than expected, then maybe it's time to see if your time would be better spent doing something else with a greater return on your investment.

And while I'm drawing up a project management plan, to mathematically label and calculate my "developmental future" (given all the alternatives), maybe you can brush up on your philosophy of science, so you'll realize the kind of errors you made with this argument.

[This message has been edited by garics (edited March 26, 2005).]

quote:
For the record I am not a Holosync customer. I made my personal decision about the product some time ago.
Alex [/B]

Hey Alex,

I am new to this forum. I'm interested to know why you've decided to not use holosync anymore? I don't know other products or technologies and maybe other things will work smoother for me. Holosync is powerful but also hard.
I read something about yin an yang on an other forum of awakenedminds (focus and insight cd) Someone said that insight (one cd, no different levels/frequencies) would be more yin and holosync more yang (harder, more pushing the brain).
i also wondered if paraliminals are a kind of hypnosis combined with holosync? and of what level is holosync (APrologue?)

Thank you.

Well just to jump in here and get my feet wet again.

Holosync is a long term committment to see it through. Like anything worthwhile. Paying a mortgage on a house is a long term committment that you only see a "paid" slip of paper at the end of thirty years of living in the house. Did you see any big changes in the house in thirty years? No, but you had a home to call your own.

To say there are many options out there is true but to dig in a do the real work of self developement is pretty much a one path road to get it done.

I dabbled around for many years looking for what worked, each time things got a little better until I finally met that teacher I had been looking for all my life and it changed everything for me. If I had gone off looking at more and better options then I would have lost that time and never accomplished near as much. The old saying "Stick and stay, make it pay" is a good rule when you find something that will give you what you are looking for.

From my own experience, when someone tells you there are better options out there that work faster... Well let me know how that works out for you. I'm sticking to this path until it runs out. It doesn't mean I'm closed to other things but they will have to wait their turn.

You don't graduate from class by looking for faster ways to do it, you still have to do the work. Some people like deadlines or time measured production qoutas. I never have enjoyed that way of thinking so don't do it myself.

Holosync and the price of things: Have you ever just given money away? Have you ever paid your creditors and said "Thank You" or do you put out your money grudgingly?

If you were ever at Sea on a Ship and had a pipe fitting burst that cost 59 cents back at Marine Hardware but in the middle of the ocean what would you pay to save your ship? And how would you feel about having to pay $50,000 to have it delivered to you? If your ship was saved you'd grumble but you'd pay and maybe plan a little better next time. You'd grumble about having to spend $1.18 to buy a couple spares, but you'd be $100,000 ahead.

My personal opinion on why most advanced Holosyncers don't respond is they don't really give a hoot, have better things to do. It's kind of hard to explain what they experience to someone who hasn't done it themselfs.

My Aikido Sensei never told me much until he knew I was ready for it. That took a few years to get use to it, but later I really understood why.

Aloha

Jeff

Like I said I made my "personal" decision some time ago.

Alex

I just found this forum after searching for Holosync on Google. It's late so I won't write too much tonight.

Just let me say that I think Holosync is a good product. As others have said, you can find other similar products for less money. I personally learned about Holosync along with lots of other meditations from a friend who had gotten them from Napster. Tried Hemisync, Dane Spotts (or something like that), BWGen, and a few light sound machines. I ended up buying the AP and level 1 and have been using it for three years. I always pay for what I use and I already knew AP worked well from the MP3's from my friend.

But the most important thing I would like to stress is not just that Holosync works but that binaural beats work. If you don't want to pay for overpriced Holosync, then a less expensive product is better than nothing all.

Yes, I said it. Holosync costs too much for being just binaural beats. But after trying many out there I do honestly think it is the best overall. I think Holsync is the best because the starting frequencies in AP and level 1 have clearly been selected with care. Any higher and it wouldn't be as powerful. Any lower and it would overwelm people that are new to binaural beats.

Another thing that really has made a difference in effectiveness of binaural beats for me is neuro suppliments. If you can afford Brainlighting it is the cadallac of neurosuppliments IMO. If not, then Ginkgo Biloba is much better than nothing. Adding Huperzine A or DMAE to the mix is even better.

Perhaps Bill does charge so much for Holosync just to make money. I thought that several years ago when I bought AP.

Another possibility is that Bill may charge what he does for HS because that way people will really put it in each day and make a real effort to stick with it if they have real money on the line. Considering it takes about 2 weeks to a month of everyday use for your brain to start really accepting HS's binaural beats, having that financial commitment to the product may really make a difference for some people.

Words can not describe the pleasure I have gotten from lower frequncy binaural beats. From a physical response alone the endorphins I get now are incredible. But it took probably 6 months and a few months of neuro suppliments before I started to have real serious flow of endorphins. Now I can just close my eyes and in a few minutes I'm there.

Good luck to all... I'll try and check back tomorrow.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SpiritualMinds:

I ended up buying the AP and level 1 and have been using it for three years.

Welcome to the Forum. Can I ask you whether you have progressed beyond Level 1 or have you chosen to stay at that level.

Also I was interested in your comments re supplements. What do you feel they do for you? Can you also describe what the endorphin rush feels like for you?

After pondering this upper level stuff on Holosync for awhile I came up with the following.

The latest buzz word for an enlightening moment or major realization has been labeled having an "Ah Ha!" that is when you get "It".

The Universe opens up and you see everything clearly. It is a very personal and individual experience.

Holosync stimulates an Evolutionary change which you grow into. It encourages neural connections in the brain (like any Binaural Beats would) It claims to promote whole brain thinking because of stimulating neural connection growth (like any of the binaural beat products do.

By doing this you keep having these "Ah Ha" moments of getting "It" until your whole life seems like one big "Ah Ha". It is again a very personal experience. Getting "It" is not the same for me as it is for you.

If Binaurel Beats do indeed stimulate neural connections in the brain then it would be more like weight lifting and stimulating muscle growth. The right diet would enhance this.

It is alot of time & work to do this program although the rewards sure seem to make life easier.

Holosync is the Cadillac of Binaurel Beats at this time because of the added stuff Bill has put in there with the Audiophonics and the "get the the sound outside of your head so it's not as stressful" thing. There maybe some others values as well.

Meditation taught me by my Aikido Sensei went something like , calm your "Monkey Mind", that chattering little thing in your head that never shuts up.

When you have reached a living calmness you begin to look for the principles that united the 10,000 things. When you find a principle you "Get It". The big "Ah Ha!" It all makes sense for YOU.

Using Holosync you can do this. As Bill says though it isn't the only way. In my experience is does speed things up considerably.

Jeff

quote:
Originally posted by Stevie:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SpiritualMinds:
I ended up buying the AP and level 1 and have been using it for three years.
Another thing that really has made a difference in effectiveness of binaural beats for me is neuro suppliments. If you can afford Brainlighting it is the cadallac of neurosuppliments IMO. If not, then Ginkgo Biloba is much better than nothing. Adding Huperzine A or DMAE to the mix is even better.
Welcome to the Forum. Can I ask you whether you have progressed beyond Level 1 or have you chosen to stay at that level.
Also I was interested in your comments re supplements. What do you feel they do for you? Can you also describe what the endorphin rush feels like for you?

"Also I was interested in your comments re supplements. What do you feel they do for you? Can you also describe what the endorphin rush feels like for you?"

The neuro-suppliments IMO seem to provide the 'food' for growing the neuro connections. I had done binaural beats and then Holosync for probably 3 months before adding the neuro-suppliments. Within about 48 hours after taking 3 Brainlighting my first sensations felt like a very pleasurable tickling between my eyes on my forehead. In the days following I had all sorts of these sensations on my scalp and that sensation you get when water trickles out of your ears. Sometimes I would get a sensation like warm water was poured down the back of my head. Taking them really did change the effectiveness of Holosync for me.

Within about 6 months after using neuro-suppliments I could literally FEEL the meditation throughout my brain. At first I could mostly feel the pull between the left and right hemispheres as they started to work together. It was an incredible experience feeling the tensions and resistance melt away. After most of that resistance was broken down I then started to feel the front part of my brain connecting with the very back. There were definitely some unsettling moments during meditation as resistance would suddenly show up or drop away. When I say resistance it is an attempt to describe a feeling almost like sinus pressure. My best non-scientific explanation is that part of the brain is resisting the flucuations the meditation/binaural beats that are resonating throughout the brain. When certain parts are not able to vibrate or get in synch it causes the sensation feels much like sinus type pressure but it can appear anywhere; behind the eyes, ears, or even in the very center of the brain. When the resistence goes away you get the 'ah-ah' feeling and a sensation the reminds me of water running out of your ears or the release of pressure from the ears like in an airplane.

Now I typically only take Brainlighting about once a week. Just after taking it the first meditations are very intense and the endorphins flow so good I can hardly stand it. Over a week or so in time the effectiveness of the Brainlighting drops. I've found that if I take the neuro-suppliments everyday the meditations are almost too powerful. I also will sometimes end up skipping Holosync and do regular meditaion if I've just taken neuro-suppliments.

Basically the endorphin flow feels exactly like your brain is having an extended brain orgasm that goes on as long as you continue to meditate. The sensations of the endorphins to me feel most intense just before the 'ah-ah' when the resistance goes away and your left with a calm mind. At times right before the resistance breaks the sensations feel 'too good' and I just have to stop meditating and start over again in a few seconds. When endorpins are really flowing good it almost feels like you're very alert and your brain feels full with energy. This is one reason that I've come to believe that if the meditation is going well you shouldn't fall asleep or even feel like falling asleep; instead it feels like energy is opening up and building from inside your brain as neuro-connections are forming. Perhaps like the kind of energy that you can feel in your mind when you are dreaming real good. Even though you are consiously asleep the energy that flows during some dreams is very real and the sub-conscious mind is in fact quite awake. That is how good meditation feels to me.

Another thing I've found very useful with binaural beats is reasonate tuning. Basically that is humming to yourself during meditation like you have probably heard done in movies and such by zen monks. For people that do too much holosync or become overwelmed I think meditating without holosync and doing resonant tunning helps alot. It makes all the difference for me when Holosync has my brain pushed a little too far.

Much of this is very, very hard to put into words. Often I have people immediately get concerned when I talk about physical sensations inside the brain. But after years of doing this I'm convinced the endorphins and pleasurable feelings from the meditations are the guideposts on our paths to greater potential. They are the indication to me that I'm engaged in something that is good for my mind and body. I've come to believe there is an enormous amount of untapped potential in all of us that gets repressed by the complex, hectic world that is growing around us. Thousands of years ago I think it is likely that people would experience this potential more naturally because of the nature all around them and the earths low 'hum' that we are now displaced from.

I'm still using level 1 Holosync and getting value out of it. Just in the past few months I've started to have a few meditations where I really feel that I've processed all that level 1 can do. But most of the time I can still feel it 'pushing' my meditation deeper.

I've got the BWGen application so I will probably experiment with making my own higher levels before I pony up for the level 2 Holosync. I'm getting so much out of meditation in general I don't feel any need to go higher at this point.

Sorry this post was not more organized and I'm sure there is plenty of bad spelling and grammer. Short on time again so I'm not doing much proof reading.

Good luck and I hope to have more discussions on this topic.

I have heard one of the Coaches for Centerpointe also recommend Brain Lightning as a good supplement to take while doing the Holosync Progam.

SpiritualMinds you might mention that you are a distributor for Brain Lightning as well.

I am willing to try it.

I started holosync in January of this year. After using it for two months I contacted support because I had not noticed any of the fabulous results that other people were supposedly getting and I didn't feel comfortable ordering the next level until I had some hard evidence. They responded that I shouldn't try to notice if it's working and that it will work over time and that I should just continue to use it everyday. A few weeks later I did notice changes or rather other people noticed changes in me and pointed them out to me. For the last three years or so I had been suffering from bouts of anxiety. After a few months of holosync, I realized that I no longer had the anxiety attacks or stomach pains associated with it. Also, I had suffered from sleeping problems my whole life, never getting more than 4 or 5 hours a night. Then, all of the sudden I started sleeping late. I thought there was something wrong with until my girlfriend pointed out that I'm finally sleeping like a human being is supposed to. I don't know if this is all coincidental, but I'm going to keep on using it because it has made my life a little bit better and I can't put a price tag on that.

I started Awakening Prologue in August 2004 and have now just begun Awakening Level 2. I have meditated almost once every day since then. My problem is a feeling that I am getting nothing from Holosync at all and I am beginning to wonder whether I should continue with it. I have read most of the Centerpointe testimonials and have never experienced anything these people say they have, much to my disappointment. I have had no �ah ha� moments, no feelings of relaxation or whatever immediately after meditating, no increased creativity, no increase in my stress threshold, just the same old me (or maybe worse). I do not feel I have experienced any change in all that time and my hour spent meditating feels like an excuse for a good sleep more than anything else. I am not knocking Holosync and I really want it to offer me something.

Having said that I wonder if we humans are just not �wired up� in the same way. It may be that despite Holosync working wonders for Bill Harris and thousands of other users there are other people that it will not work for. Would anyone care to comment or offer any thoughts on my dilemma? Currently I am thinking of completing Awakening Level 2 but after that if I still feel nothing I will probably have to seriously consider whether my hour a day would be better spent pursuing other activities. I would appreciate any comments.

Regards
Stevie

Stevie,

Have you experienced good results from any other mind-tech products?

Also, check your equipment and make sure you are getting a true stero signal -- the technology will not work in mono.

It has been mentioned previously that the starting carrier frequency (the essence of what makes the holosync prgram "work") is the same in the early levels, without accounting for individual differences. Maybe if you were meditating with carrier frequencies lower than Awakening 1 you would be feeling something and noticing results.

You can test this theory by making a homemade version of the holosync program on Brainwave Generator, which allows you to set the carrier anywhere you want. By doing this you could preview Awakening 2, Or Purification 3, or whatever. Of course the overall quality of these tracks is not as good as what you get from Centerpointe, and a lot of people find them difficult to listen to over an extended period of time. But it just may give you an idea of whether or not there is any future for you with holosync.

As far as your point about "does holosync work for everyone..." Good question. I don't know and I don't know how anyone could clam to know the answer to this. Although I have gotten such good results with holosync I am inclined to think that almost anyone would get SOMETHING from the program if they stuck with it, it may not be worth it in everyone's case.

Stevie

I was in the same position as you early in the program. I wrote the support staff and they told me don't worry about trying to notice if it does anything, just listen for an hour a day and don't think about if it's working. Once I started following that advice a few weeks later I saw changes, rather other people noticed changes in me and pointed them out to me.

Stevie;

If you have not noticed any improvement in your external life and you have not experience any of those Ah-Ha moments then I would think you moved on to fast to the next level.

I had listened to binaurel beats for almost 20 years before starting Holosync and feel this benefited me in their program. When I started cd 4 of Level 4 Awakening it took almost 2 months before my body even reacted to it then it took another 6 months before feeling complete on it.

I have one friend who treats running through these levels like a competition who started behind me and has somehow progressed to almost two years ahead of me rather than do the program as it is designed. I see it as cheating herself out of alot of gains and putting herself into alot of overwhelm that she need not do. She tells me to hurry up.

In my opinion, that is the wrong thing to do with this technology.

If you have not experienced any improvements in your external life and your ability to handle much more stress has not improved then I would go back to Awakening Prologue and just hang there until you notice a big change. Then move on. It's not a race, it's about you and getting the benefits.

Jeff

Garics

Many thanks for reply. I have only previously used a light/sound machine which I found enjoyable to use but invariably made me fall asleep. Other than that Holosync is the only mind-tech product I have used.

I currently use a Sony Walkman when listening to Holosync and assumed that this would be sufficient.

Steve

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jeffdengr:
[B]Stevie;

If you have not noticed any improvement in your external life and you have not experience any of those Ah-Ha moments then I would think you moved on to fast to the next level.

Thanks for the reply Jeff. I am very interested in your comments about the possibility of moving through the program too fast. I certainly see the program as one that will take time, years probably, and in that sense I am in no hurry but then I do want to feel some of the benefits! Catch 22?

It may be I am expecting too much too soon and need to just carry on meditating and not get too hung up abut the "results". You know I even bought myself a new recliner that allows me to sit up in comfort while meditating so I do intend to carry on and hopefully I will not get too downhearted if I feel I am not getting "results".

Steve

quote:
Originally posted by jeffdengr:
Stevie;
If you have not experienced any improvements in your external life and your ability to handle much more stress has not improved then I would go back to Awakening Prologue and just hang there until you notice a big change. Then move on. It's not a race, it's about you and getting the benefits.
Jeff

Jeff

Can I ask why you recommend going back to Awakening Prologue rather than just carrying on at the level I am currently using?

I should also point out that initially I did my meditating lying down. Though I found this very comfortable I generally fell asleep. I am now beginning to wonderw whether lying down was not such a good idea. I do all my meditating now in an upright position.

quote:
Originally posted by barryd:
Stevie
I was in the same position as you early in the program. I wrote the support staff and they told me don't worry about trying to notice if it does anything, just listen for an hour a day and don't think about if it's working. Once I started following that advice a few weeks later I saw changes, rather other people noticed changes in me and pointed them out to me.

Barry

Thanks for the reply. What kind of changes do you feel you experienced? Did you notice these changes happening on a day to day basis or only when when you looked back at yourself so to speak.

Thanks
Steve

Stevie

I did not notice any changes on a day to day basis. In fact I did not notice any changes myself, other people noticed changes in me like not getting upset so anxious and better sleep patterns, which I can't believe I didn't notice myself. Once this was pointed out to me I then realized that there were some positive changes.

Stevie;

I am saying to go back to Awakening Prologue if you have not experienced some sort of noticeable change whether it is internal or external.

I see this Holosync Program as alot like weight lifting/body building for the brain and nervous system. In doing bodybuilding you don't move up to the next level of weights without having developed the muscle structure to easily support doing that. If you move on it tears you down and recovery takes much longer. If you back off and use a lighter set of weights you notice you recover easier and growth is stimulated.

Also using the alpha/theta CD's like Super Longevity or Making Change Easy that came with the original program helps lighten things up for you when feeling the Overwhelm.
I always liked the Attracting Money and Success. My lunch time desert.

When you are feeling irritable and life seems kind of nutty that is when you are experiencing growth. You get these endorphin highs during this time. When it seems to taper off and things have gotten kind of boring it is time to move on to the next level.

I think staying awake and sitting up through the meditation is best. I have experienced the falling asleep when starting a new level and viewed it as a feeling, so I consciously feel the feel and it tends to release then I can stay awake. It takes a few days of doing this.

If you can stay awake and consciously observe the changes in your internal energy while the Holosnyc is playing (don't do anything but observe and accept what happens)it will give you some big changes.

Hope that helps.

Jeff

Regarding Accepting what comes up. Accepting something does not mean that you have to be passive about it. It is like acknowledging the situation you find yourself in and if you feel it necessary then do something about it.

There are alot of ways to look at it. It is taking responsibilty for something and even though you did not create it, you can still take responsibilty and do something about it.

By welcoming this thing you do not like it allows you to approach it and gets your hands on it. Once you let it into your life and welcome it you can make change. If you deny it, push it away, suppress it, give the "stink eye" keep away, it will just stay there forever until you take control and do something about it. Like dirty dishes in the kitchen.

Just by having the willingness to makes changes if you need to seems to lighten things up.

The Buddhists have a saying that "Your Enemy is a Great Teacher". If you can get to a position of accepting your enemy as a teacher you can also make great changes, especially in yourself.

By being here and now makes you responsible for what is. It is not to say you are at blame and you created all these problems. It is more like you have "The Watch". By accepting the Watch you have alot more control over your own life. You are it.

Hi Erwan,
Your remarks have really sparked a debate.
I have just ordered Holysync and I had never seen an advert in the UK to date - but I had trawled the web for information for all similar programmes before deciding to go with it.
I am an SFQ practitioner but was finding the guided imagery meditations not very successful though the powerful Small Universe is very good indeed . I wanted a faster enhancement into deep meditation and as far as I can see Holysync seems to offer this. Since money seems to be the problem with a lot of your correspondents I did note before ordering that Holysync offers a full year money back guarantee. So if it doesn't work as you expect - you can send it back.
Love and light
Faune

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jeffdengr:
[B]Stevie;

If you have not noticed any improvement in your external life and you have not experience any of those Ah-Ha moments then I would think you moved on to fast to the next level.

Jeff

The more I think about it I realise I have been very eager to make progress and experience some kind of change/improvement etc and as a result I have maybe been a little too eager to progress through the Holosync Cd's.

I think I should just slow up a little and not get too hung up about things not happening and make sure I am not moving through the levels too quickly.

Thanks.
Stevie

[This message has been edited by Stevie (edited May 03, 2005).]

Stevie;

I believe you are doing yourself a big favor by doing that. Put it on Hawaiian time, we get there when we get there.

Jeff

quote:
Originally posted by jeffdengr:
I have heard one of the Coaches for Centerpointe also recommend Brain Lightning as a good supplement to take while doing the Holosync Progam.
SpiritualMinds you might mention that you are a distributor for Brain Lightning as well.
I am willing to try it.

I didn't want people to get the imperssion I was trying to make a sale for myself on here. Brainlightning really is a good product and I used it myself for months before I started offering it on SpiritualMinds.com.

It is expensive though. At first I tried to take the ingredients from list and go out and buy the stuff at the store but the result was not nearly as good and cost just about as much.

If you are on a low budget buy one bottle of Brainlighting and use it a few times a week and use some low cost Ginko Biloba to take on the other days. Brainlighting is expensive but I've also found that I really don't need a whole lot of it. Particularly if you take Ginkgo Biloba in between to increase blood flow during meditation. Taking it though really did make a difference and changed the meditation experience from being just a relaxing, sleepy feeling into a pleasurable, one-with-the-universe, major breakthrough.

I'd recommend starting with two pills about 30-45 minutes before your meditation. Make sure you drink two glasses of water for best results. It also really does help if you don't eat protein before because the protein redenders some of the important Brainlighting ingredients inert.

If you want to get it on SpiritualMinds.com that is fine. Here is a link.
http://www.spiritualminds.com/brainlightning.asp

We don't charge shipping and it should be the cheapest you will find anywhere. If you want to get it somewhere else that is cool too. I don't want you guys to think I'm recommending this product to make money for myself. It's expensive but if you've already paid for Holosync I would strongly recommend it.

I would also say buying some Ginkgo Biloba is FAR better than taking nothing.

With both Brainlighting and Ginkgo Biloba I think you should start off with small dosages while doing Holosync everyday. Then after a week or so if you are not getting an effect, increase the dosage slowly.

Good luck

I never tried BL, but I'm certainly familiar with the components. I've been a huge experimenter with "smart drugs and nutrients" over the last 6 years. Tried most of everything, including imports.

FWIW, here are my conclusions:

- They definately can enhance someone's thinking, memory, reaction time and stress resistance. But everyone is different, and my experience with any one thing, or combo, could be the opposite of yours. Also, educate yourself on every drug or health interaction before plunging into them.

- Too much of a good thing is too much. Titrate your doses and combinations (or you may feel they're making you more "stupid.")

- Some herbs, vitamins, minerals and aminos can definately enhance spiritual and meditative experiences (so can exercise, for that matter). But beware, more than a few of these things can rapidly build "tolerance" in your system (even if it is still delivering health or anti-aging benefits to your brain and body). So don't become "attached" to any particular substance. Take a break, or rotate different stuff.

I'm something a herbal junkie myself. I love going into the shops to pick up the smells. Alot of times I'll just want the herb near me for the feeling. When it's not near it feels like a withdrawal, probably a energenic thing. Maybe I could try making up one of those mojo things to wear

Traditional Chinese Medicine says to take something for about 120 days and then take a break for 30 or so and then use as needed.
Nothing will work forever. Once your system has become saturated and you still have the same problem or not getting the desired results then something else is causing the problem being addressed or another herbal remedy is needed.. or maybe none at all.

SpiritualMinds; Thanks for stating your position.