I’ve read many of the threads in this forum, but as a beginner I’m overloaded with information.

My initial and primary objectives are to improve my ADD (not severe) and general self improvement.

I’ve tried several subliminal tapes in past years without success. Recently, I stumbled across a hypnosis/NLP forum and became interested after reading a lot of those threads and the replies to my posts.

I realize I’m going to ask a few questions that are very subjective and that I may be trying to cover too much territory in one thread. Regardless, there are some (seemingly) very intelligent, helpful, and experienced members here and I seek your advice notwithstanding any disagreements between you about the answers. Here goes:

First question is in which “order” would I want to proceed with any of these techniques, second is which can be effectively utilized together, third –perhaps – is which items some of you would say should be dismissed as ineffective (e.g., I realize some members think Centerpointe is a rip-off, at least in terms of pricing)

1. Hypnosis/NLP (initially, at least, under the direction of an experienced hypnotherapist)
2. Sound therapy, binaural – either from
a. Holosync or
b. Self made CDs with available software
3. Light & sound devices, such as
a. MindSpa
b. One of the photosonix devices
4. “Vibration” (!?!) light & sound device such as VibraSound Sensorium

Regarding the light/sound devices, I wonder if some are as overpriced some of you remark about Holosync

Also...

The software I found most interesting was Transparant Corporation's Neuro Programmer.

And another interesting sound/light device is Mind Alive Inc's David Paradise (the Paradise XL+ has a "Craino-Electro Stimulation" device added)

quote:

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Originally posted by alvinmc:
I’ve read many of the threads in this forum, but as a beginner I’m overloaded with information.

My initial and primary objectives are to improve my ADD (not severe) and general self improvement.

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I wonder if I might make an addition to your list? I've had experience with most of the items on your list, and I think all of those are good choices. However, in my experience, they seem to work better if you also do some kind of physical movement, such as QiGong or yoga.

However, your specific challenge--ADD--might be especially to the kind of energy work Donna Eden teaches. She has a book and several videos available (I think some are on DVD as well) at www.inndersource.net. Some of this is also available on amazon. There are some lively conversations with lots of helpful hints on the Yahoo group, Creative Energies.

The past two years have been truly challenging for me, but I've made progress using a combination of Spring Forest QiGong, Donna Eden's work, Luanne Oakes' sound healing programs, and some of the Learning Strategies materials.

Sometimes it's finding the right combination of techniques that "does the trick" rather than looking for just one technique. So perhaps you might find that your intuition will lead you to the techniques that will help the most--if it's more than one, give it some consideration.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jeanne:
www.inndersource.net.

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Yikes--let's correct that--it should have been: www.innersource.net

My apologies! (Couldn't find the "edit" button.)

The edit button is the paper with the pencil icon. It's much easier to post a corrected link than edit

Alex

Personally, I would first use Transparant Corporation's Neuro Programmer's special sessions that address those areas. They already have it all set up, you don't have to do a thing except use it. I love they allow me to try for free two sessions for like 15 days. And I bought it given my improvement and now advance to creating my own scripts. Then I would use professional help if that didn't work. The program cost less than one visit where I live.

It sounds like you just read their forum and not tried it. But you must do what works best for you. I'm do it myself first type of guy, then if can't, get help.
Best,
Richard

alvin,

you asked if there was an order in which you should proceed. well I would put the neurophone and CES at the "bottom of the pyramid"; meaning that it may be useful for some to thoroughly ground their nervous systems with these devices to get the maximum benefit from NLP, light & sound etc.
however, not everyone is the same, some folks may be "already there" in terms of the balancing effects provided by these devices, so they may not feel anything..these are people who will usually be pretty high functioning to begin with.
your description of moderate ADD makes me think you might like one of these, or the combination.

For CES I have used the BT-7 Brain Tuner, and the pink noise version of the Neurophone because it is cheaper and more portable. If you want you can take advantage of toolsforwellness.com's return policy (which I have used and never had any problems with) and check out these devices one at a time to see if they do anything for you. If they don't you can just return them for one of the L/S devices you were talking about, or maybe something else.

Oh, by the way...if you do try CES or the BT-7, remember to soak the cloth electrode covers in sea salt...this is pretty important for maximum results and you can get some at a health food grocery store.

alvin,

here are a couple of free ebooks you might want to check out as well:
http://www.freezoneamerica.org/pilot/self/index.html http://www.trans4mind.com/transformation/

Good luck,

Garic

Garics, Richard,

Thanks for the info. I haven't read the ebooks you suggested Garics, but I will. I just wanted to post a quick reply to mention that I have located study done for a PhD thesis by Dr. Ruth Olmstead using a/v stimulation to treat ADD and other learning disabilities. Larry Minikes operates the site www.avstim.com and sells the MindSpa device which has her sessions (you can find a link to Dr. Olmstead's thesis on his site). I've corresponded with him several times over the past week and he is a great guy with a lot of knowledge.

I was excited about finding this research because it's the first study I've seen that actually uses the scientific method with strict standards and subject to peer review. I've seen it suggested on other threads that Bill Harris would be afraid of the results of an actual controlled experiment evaluating the efficacy of his products. I don't know whether they could be proved effective or not, or whether their effectiveness (for those who get positive results) would be shown to be more a result of placebo or expectancy. Regardless, I'm encouraged by Dr. Olmstead's work.

Also Garics - I checked Neurophone device, and noticed the Echofone is a newer item. I saw a brief comparison of the two, but I couldn't tell if the Echofone would actually do most/all that the more expensive Neurophone would do. Do you know?

Thanks for your comments.

As far as the difference between the two devices you are describing, I don't know.
The one I have used and am still using is the Pink Noise Version of the Neurophone, which sells for $290 from toolsforwellness and about $250 from Patrick Flangan's company...you can find that company by doing a yahoo search on Patrick Flanagan (he's the guy who invented the device). It doesn't have an external audio input so you can only set the audio output to either a pink noise setting (which is the one I have used extensively) or a Fibonacci ratio setting which is supposed to induce relaxation and meditation. With the one you are talking about you can have it output anything you'll play out of a stereo.

This pink noise version is the one I was recommending you look at; cause it is at least in the same ballpark as those LS devices as far as price.

And I have gotten some really great results from it. Nothing I have done previously, including EEG biofeedback, has increased my learning ability as much as this device. It definitely has a real balancing effect on the body and the nervous system. One of the incidental effects I noticed yesterday, was that I could hold the "tree pose" in the hatha yoga system indefinitely from either foot without any warmup, which is unheard of for me considering I haven't been doing any yoga for the past two months. My balance is usually just not that great. There is a mental feeling of balance and this seems to be coincident with the body's own sense of balance.

As far as the difference bewteen the two devices you are describing...well I used to browse a bioelectromagnetics yahoo group that seemed to have a lot of technical types who had built their own homeade neurophones...apparently it's not really that hard even, although I haven't looked into the procedure. Anyway some of these folks seeemed to think that the models you could build out of Radio Shack parts and brillo pads were as good as the curent updated model...so I really don't know if there is a very large variation in the basic technology.

Anyway, I have gotten great results from the pink noise model, and for all I know the more expensive ones are that much more effective.

The benefits were the result of using the device on the pink noise setting for at least two hours a day, for a period of two and a half weeks.
It is not something you are going to immediately feel the first time you use the device.

[This message has been edited by garics (edited March 01, 2005).]

sup.
well, i have been here before and i think i can honestly help you, if you are still interested, etc.

First - learn grapho-therapy. This is basically where you learn to analysis your own handwriting and add new traits and remove bad ones. Handwriting is a detailed and direct reflection of your deepest level of behavioural beliefs. the actual marks you make on the page are directly connected to neural pathways in the brain, ergo changing what you write on page changes what pathways become dominate in your brain. you can learn it pretty much for free from www.myhandwriting.com
This is the BEST way to start real self help becuase it lets you change at the most basic level: far deeper than holosync or self hypnosis.
Seriously, it's so friggin' easy and effective, it changes your entire out-look in life. And it's.... cheeeep!
Heh.

Anyway, second-
You said you have ADD, which I also had. If you want to use hypnosis (which I strongly recommend) you might find that you have trouble going into a trance b/c your brainwaves are quite literally more volitile than the average person's. To this end I recommend the second step being neurofeedback training, which is worthwhile in itself without even the added benifit of later training via self hypnosis. I found ThoughStream from www.mindmodulations.com to be the best for the purposes you are considering... and for the price you can't really go wrong.

Thirdy-
Self hypnosis.
Man! I absolutely love self hypnosis!! There is nothing so incredible in the entire world and that is a simple plain undeniable fact! I foudn the Learning Self Hypnosis course from www.innertalk.com is pretty good value for money. It includes CDs to help you get in a trance which is pretty handy when you are trying to teach yourself and you don't really know what a trance should "be", per se.
But don't under estimate the power of self hypnosis. I mean, the visualization techniques are really cool... yeah. oh Yeah, they are really cool, better than watching TV, but there is way more to it than that. For example, if you want to learn a skill simply get a couple of books about that, read them, and then 'hardwire' key points from the book into yourself via self hypnosis. This works with everything for martial arts to social skills to sexual techniques and absolutely everything in between.

This is pretty much all you need to turn your life around completely. And don't be afriad to experiment with self hypnosis. Trust me it can be really damn fun. Put yourself into a trance every morning and tell yourself that you are living in a state of ecsatcy. Tell yourself that you are unbelievably happy.
Heheh.
Good luck! Love and kisses everyone,
genuismonkey

You're welcome Alvin.
If you haven't purchase Mindspa yet, I would suggest you check out the following. After I review both Mindspa and then MindExplorer Light and Sound Synergizer.. at http://cerebrex.com/ls.htm because I found MindExplorer offer better value with the standard package, better goggles with software. I found results great.
Best,
Richard

genuismonkey,

I've heard of graphoanalysis, but not grapho-therapy. Interesting. I'll definitely check it out.

I'm assuming I'll have trouble getting into a trance b/c of ADD. Saying what you did convinces me that you really do have (or had) it. I began this journey at hypnosis.com, posting on their forum asking about the effectiveness of hypnotherapy for ADD from any forum members with experience treating that disorder. There were several well intended replies, but I could tell most of the posters really didn't understand ADD, and several others disputed that it was a real "disorder". The latter camp said it was mostly a societal issue (ie, otherwise, why is it so prevelantly diagnosed in the US vs the rest of the world, etc), a P/C way of labeling misbehavior (and supported by the Pharmacutical Companies), diet related, and/or it was just a "belief" that I was programmed to act out. THAT lead to some spirited conversation between me and them. I went to graduate school (counseling) long ago when ADD was relatively unknown and was designated Minimal Brain Dysfunction, and I've read a fair amount about the subject over the years. But I'm digressing...

I'm really glad to hear that you had good results with hypnosis. One of the more meaningful remarks I heard from hypnosis.com is that seeing an experienced hypnotherapist (at least initially) would be like taking personalized lessons tailored for me, as opposed to the generalized approach most self hypnosis courses need to follow. I'm likely going to do that, then if I find I can enter a trance without too much trouble, I'll pursue self-hypnosis. Starting my day in a state of ecstasy... hey, that sounds pretty good. But, I'm generally a pessimist. And you know (one of) the old sayings about the difference between an optimist and a psssimist - an optimist thinks things are as good as they can be. A pessimist is afraid he is correct.

Richard,

RATS! I wish I had waited a few days, but I bought the MindSpa - and it does look like the MindExplorer is a better unit and better value. Oh well, maybe I'll "upgrade" later if a/v stim works for me. And, POSSIBLY, the sessions done by Dr. Olmstead are just the right ingredients for an ADDer. (I'm entering a trance here - the MindSpa is absolutely the best a/v stim device for an ADD person. No other device will be as effective. It will cure my ADD. )

Seriously, it might be similar to all the discussion elsewhere on this forum about the effectiveness of Holosync vs homemade binaural beat CDs - some users think Holosync is the best there is and are having great results.

I have some more advice.
Get all three things from www.transparentcorp.com
it's one of teh companines you mentioned above. These guys are sweet... the intensity of their audio braintraiment is out of this world... I mean... it's incredible. It's powerful enough to induce hypnotic states so that you simply don't have to 'learn' hypnosis. These guys are genuinely at the forefront of this entire industry. As far as Holosync or BWG... they should be ashamed of themselves for using THE least effective method of entraiment (that is, binaural beats).

By the way, I find it interesting about what you say in context to ADD. I think that ADD is induced by behaviour and more transient issues than deeper genetic problems as it is generally assumed b/c I developed it approximately in year nine at school... and in reality I should have had it from birth. Dunno... just a thought.

Anyway, I'm actually posting here to thank you for (inadvertently) putting me onto the Neuro Programmer. Seriously, you have done me a massive favour; this is waaay more powerful than traditional hypnosis. I mean... there is nothing out there; not Holosync, not any NLP script, that compares to this. Not even grapho-therapy. So thanks! Hahah.

quote:

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Originally posted by genuismonkey:
I have some more advice.
Get all three things from www.transparentcorp.com
it's one of teh companines you mentioned above. These guys are sweet... the intensity of their audio braintraiment is out of this world... I mean... it's incredible. It's powerful enough to induce hypnotic states so that you simply don't have to 'learn' hypnosis. These guys are genuinely at the forefront of this entire industry. As far as Holosync or BWG... they should be ashamed of themselves for using THE least effective method of entraiment (that is, binaural beats).

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That's interesting, gm, thanks for that. Has anyone else any positive experience of Transparent Corp products? (I particularly like the look of Brain Sound Studio). Personally, I've always found binaural beats a pretty effective method of brainwave entrainment, but if there is indeed something better then I'd sign up for that too (and it would be nice not to have to wear headphones for a change).

Cheers,

TS

i just posted again to say that you can actually download BSS for free of thier websight. it has hell limitations, of course; you can only use two premade sessions and it has a fifteen day expiry, but nonetheless...
One of the most remarkable things about it is the different methods of entrainment avaliable. I mean, I used to think that binaural and visual were all there were. But there at least twelve different methods, many of them compatable wiht each other, which abviously has implications for the strenght of the induction.

GM,

Glad to have been of "accidental" assistance re Neuro-Programmer. Keep us posted (no pun intended) on your progress with this program.

BTW, after a good bit more research, I settled in on the DAVID PAL a/v stim device. If one can believe their assertions about the improved lightframe LEDs they use, etc, they seem to have a better product, albeit a bit more expensive. I also was referred to a reseller who has done a lot of work with ADD in school settings with the DAVID devices.

I have to say that for effectiveness, efficiency (who has enough time for al the self improvement we'd LIKE to do?) and affordability - Transparent Corp products win hands down.

http://www.transparentcorp.com/

I've used it to reduce antidepressant and anti anxeity medication - eliminate sleep problems, and improve my GPA. Not bad for under $50.

[This message has been edited by UptonGirl (edited April 01, 2005).]

Have you considered supplements for your ADD? Essentail Fatty Acids can be really helpful in relieving some conditions.

Fish oils are a good source, as are oils like flax seed, if you are vegetarian.

There was a good article about this in The Independent, a UK newspaper this week, but I think you might have to pay to read it online. The article recommended websites www.fabresearch.org; www.issfal.org.uk and www.healthyandessential.com.

I've never seen any research to back this up, but I wonder if the current explosion in cases of ADHD, dyspraxia and other conditions is due to pregnant women eating unhealthily, or eating little so they don't gain weight in pregnancy. As I understand it, the brain is basically a big ball of fat, so when it is being created in the womb, it needs plenty of good fats.

Interestingly, a friend of mine who struggled with anorexia in her second pregnancy is now struggling, 16 years later, with her second son's mental state, which may be about to be diagnosed as schizophrenia.

Food for thought?

Good luck with your search for personal growth!

Jodi

Ah hah!
That was a genius pun!
I should revise what I said about there being about twelve different methods of b/tment, it's probably closer to six.
As far as suppliments for ADD goes, I've heard of the same thing and am inclinded to think it would work... but like, how much do you want to improve? They are not going to turn you into a super performing master machine (hmm, that has a nice ring to it...) There's so much cool stuff in this world... guys, have you ever thought about this? I realised this a while back... right now, right at this very point in time we are living in a time where thing are being invented that have literally never existed before. Things that would have never even been considered. We are at a peak in technology and therefore in personal power which has never actually been physically possibly up until this point. I mean, if you think back over the billions of years of earth's history there was never a single point in time where I would have preffered to have been born.
Heheh, how was that for totally random and irrelevent?? I just had to get it off my chest. It's more of a profound thing than may seem at first... I mean, there are far less boundries on what is realistically possible for individuals nowadays. There are way more "possibilties", I suppose is what I mean.

Hi..

Have you tried Hemi-Sync?. They have some cd's to handle ADD/ADHD.. Have never tried them for that, but to focus, concentration etc. their cd's are really good.. They are using binaural beats, in a certain way like holosync.. to harmonize both sides of the brain and a lot of other applications..stuff like that..
http://www.hemi-sync.com/

Murof.