I´m doing holosync since a couple of weeks now. Only a few days ago i started with "The Dive" followed by "Immersion" (1 hour session).

The info letter said that most people will feel differences only after 3-4 days. I don´t feel anything so long (neither better nor worse).

My question:
How long should i try holosync? I mean, i don´t wanna waste 1 full hour every day for the next 2 years just to achieve absolutely nothing. Is there a point where you can say "Okay, that´s definately not working for me."?

Probably for as long as it takes is the answer. In my own experience I would suggest giving it at least a few months. I agree that an hour a day is a lot of time to investe, especially if you feel you may not get any return from using Holosync. You say you do not want to do Holosync for an hour a day "just to achieve nothing". Can I ask what it is you want Holosync to achieve for you?

Regards
Stevie

@Stevie:
I want to experience at least one thing Bill Harris mentioned in his info letter:

More happiness and flow in my life,
Increased focus, concentration......,
Better sleep,
Super-deep meditation.....and so on.

btw,
Is there any other method beside the Centerpointe method (other institutes)?

Hi Twix:

Some of the changes that Holosync listening brings are small incremental changes over longer periods of time than just a few days. You may not immediately be aware of the changes, and only looking back at your life from periods of 6 months or so, will you actually see the difference it has made.

Everyone starts from their own unique place - no two brains are identical. Many people do have experiences of feeling energy running or bliss, while others plod on through with no particular physical sensations at all. The REAL work that is being done is far beneath the surface of your outward consciousness, bringing the two hemispheres of the brain into aligned communication, and charging up programming that has been buried in the subconscious mind by trauma, etc. which may be running your life in a totally different direction than you'd like to run it.

There is also a forum located at: http://pub28.ezboard.com/bcenterpointe where you can read about the experiences of participants, some of them well into the program, and receive a wealth of information on how this program affects personal growth. The forum is run independantly from Centerpointe Research Institute by people who have come together to share their experiences of using this technology. Take a look for yourself - you'll need to join EzBoard if you want to post.

Personally, I'm just about ready to start Awakening Level 2, and the results thus far for myself have been amazing.

Cheers!
Unis

twix,

Is holosync your first experience with a brainwave entrainment product?
If so, you might expect to take a bit longer to see results than they promise in the literature.

The very first entrainment product I tried was the Kelly Howell "Focus" tape. That was about ten years ago, and I didn't feel anything from it.

Then I ordered a sound and light machine, and using that for a few months seemed to "activate" the effectiveness of binaural entrainment. When I came back to the Kelly Howell tapes later on, I noticed that my response was much different, and much stronger. And I still use those tapes to this day, for improving concentration and sports performance.

I had been using a variety of brainwave entrainment products when I first tried holosync, including Tom Kenyon and Monroe Institute, and I did indeed notice changes from holosync after only a few days.

So basically, a lot of it can depend on your level of experience with these things.

If you are brand new, give it a bit more time. Also journaling can help magnify your awareness of the benefits.

As I have said voluminously on these forums, I have a bad opinion of Centerpointe.

However, their CDs do do SOMETHING.

While I am skeptical of their claims, spending an hour in deep relaxation isn't a waste of time.

Have you meditated before? I think having some experience with traditional methods of meditation can help.

While you are relaxing, things *are* happening.

I think any point is ok at which to say it isn't doing anything for you. The real benefits of meditation, however, are from the brain state the activity creates over the long haul.

There are alternative products out there that are shorter in length. You might want to try one of those?

Get your brainwaves measured with an EEG and then you will know if it is having an effect or not.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by garics:
[B]twix,

Is holosync your first experience with a brainwave entrainment product?
If so, you might expect to take a bit longer to see results than they promise in the literature.

Garics.

Apart from using a light and sound device, Holosync is my first experience of brainwave entrainment. How long do you think it might take someone like myself to see results. Months, a couple of years? I realise this is a bit of an unfair question to put to you as we are all different but I just wondered what your thoughts are on this.

Stevie.

twix,

Well I am a little interested to hear what results you got, if any, with the sound & light machine.

It is difficult for me to tell you how long to give it, but since you invested your money I would just make sure you give it what (to you) feels like a sincere effort before you consider moving on to other options.

Some seem to get results quickly, whereas for others the process takes weeks, and I have also heard people using the product for months or longer before getting results. So I am not sure where this promise of results in only a few days came from.
Maybe because all the people who pioneered the program were experienced meditators to begin with, and they project their experiences onto others...?

With that said, that are a couple of products you may want to look at, which can offer changes and experiences which are similiar to those available with holosync.

1 of which, is the AwakenedMinds CD. The lowest carrier tone on that one is (I believe) 20Hz, which is lower than on Awakening Prologue. That product also employs frequencies other than the low-carrier-tone delta frequency, layered harmonically, to induce a meditative state.

Many people who use this product report results similiar to those obtained with holosync, with a somewhat lighter degree of purification (and my experience confirms this as well).

Additionally, there is only 1 "level" to this program, and it sells for 35.95, a lot cheaper than holosync. Most people seem to continue getting good results with this CD for a year or more; the Awakened Minds support staff says that some have used the product for two years or more and are still experiencing purification effects.

I began testing this CD when I had completed holosync through Flowering 1, which is the 10th level of the holosync program.
And at that point, I found that it gave me a definite level of emotional catharsis, of dislodging subconscious material, that was beyond what I was getting at that point with my regular sitting practice.

Another option, is the perfect meditation CD's....these are basically a clone of the holosync program, with different background sounds and effects, sold by someone over ebay.
(Go on ebay, search for holosync, and you'll find him, his product is called "perfect meditation". You can email him to inquire about lower levels etc.)

The advantage here, is that he will sell you a deeper level right at the outset, and he charges about one-third of the price for each level; also, I think the carrier tone on the introductory package is a bit lower than on Awakening Prologue.

Some people like jeffdengr, whose opinion I respect, advises against jumping ahead in the program, in terms of carrier frequency.

However, I have only my own experience, and the testimonials of others to guide me in this, and I am trying to present you with what I feel are all of the relevant options....

the individual who sells the perfectmeditation CD's offers email support, and perhaps can point out some techniques to help deal with any excess purification, should it arise in your case...

Anyway, you want to get to a point in yourself, whether you are doing "conventional" meditation, holosync, yoga, or anything else, where you are sensitive enough to rely on the data of your own sensory perception; this is one of the reasons Spring Forest QiGong (and related disciplines, like a regular sitting or focusing meditation) are so useful; practiced over time, they are not only synergistic with most mind-tech/self-improvement approaches; they actually help to increase your sensitivity and awareness of what works for YOU.

Third-person studies and comments from others ultimately pale in comparison to your own intuition and sensitivity; no two people are alike and only you can determine what is appropriate for you at this point!

Good luck, and let me know if you have any other questions.

Garic

The perfect meditation person has a website.
http://www.perfectmeditation.com

Only sketchy thing ... "masters" are referenced everywhere but no specific names are given.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited September 23, 2005).]

http://www.perfectmeditation.com/index_files/Page604.html

Here is where Rama Zopa Rinpoche is quoted about the benfits of the chant used on the CD.

Garics

Re your last message in connection with Perfect Meditation.com can I ask you a couple of questions. Firstly would using the perfect meditations cd's interfere with using the cd's from Centerpointe and secondly do you have any idea where the first level of perfect meditation is in comparison to Holosync as regards the carrier strength etc.

Regards
Steve

[This message has been edited by Stevie (edited September 26, 2005).]

Stevie,

I wouldn't use both simultaneously, as they are very similiar programs, and (in addition to requiring a lot of time..!)this would make it difficult to judge which product was helping you.

I don't know the starting carrier in PerfectMeditation, but it claims to be lower than Awakening Prologue, which is ~145 Hz.
My guess is that he dropped the intro carrier for level 1 of his program, so that he could have the holosync defectors start on level 1 of Perfect Meditation, instead of skipping right away to level 2.

I bit the hook and ordered the perfect meditation intro.

I'll let you guys know how I think it compares.

From the creator of the series (perfect meditation) in an email to me:

"It is comparable to the first level. It is the entry level. That’s why it’s the beginning of the series."

So, though it sounds like it starts deeper, I suppose it doesn't. That is, it is probably the same as Awakening Level 1 and not the prologue.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited September 29, 2005).]

I tried the Holosync. I think it is a dead end for the people looking for the REAL DEAL. The true seekers.

It is the lazy mans route..... just sit and listen..? the results comes from the work put in. Simply listen and it will happen? Well, depends what you are expecting then.

I think a lot of people would get a lot of results from taking 1 hour off everyday to think and reflect about themselves and totally unplug. Listen to holosync or not.

I tried the program from Higher Balance, and now I have learned to manipulate the weather, experience other dimensions, telepathy and al l kinds of stuff....

I think holosync does "something", but that "something" is not what I am looking for. It didn't do anything for me really.......

But everyone is different I guess!

A lot of people look for information on holosync here so I would just add my experience. I used Awakening prologue for over a year and bought the 1st higher level and probably used that for about a year, maybe more, I still listen to it occasionally. One thing I will say is that I do believe that it works and that I received some very positive results.

I was thinking about buying another higher level but when I asked about skipping a level because I've been listening to other soundtracks at lower carrier fequencies I was told that they would not allow anyone to skip levels.

So I looked on ebay and bid on a used higher level CD set.

This is an email I got from Ebay:

5634313511 - Centerpointe Holosync Awakening Level 3 - 5 CD Full Set

was removed because the intellectual property rights owner notified eBay that
the listing potentially infringes its copyright, trademark or other rights. Due
to this claim, and the fact that the feedback system is no longer available, we
strongly urge you not to complete this transaction.

You can get more information on eBay's cooperation with intellectual property
rights owners at:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/programs-vero-ov.html

Thank you for your cooperation and understanding in this issue.

Regards,

VeRO Program
eBay Trust & Safety

When I purchased my set it came with no licenses agereement that I could see would prevent selling it to another person when I was finished with it. I paid $250 for a set of CD's...they are my property and I have a right to sell them to another individual if I no longer want them.

This is the final nail in my decision to never buy anything from Centerpointe. Although the program works, I do not believe that it works so much better than the alternatives that it justifies the exhorbitant price tag.

Once again I know the validity of centerpointe has been discussed before and there are various opinions on the matter. I just wanted to bring attention to this action of getting an ebay auction canceled so everyone has this information when they make there own decision to buy or pass on centerpointe.

Hello Antonios:

I'm not sure if this is a recent development, but I am aware that they've had it for at least a year - each time I receive a CD or Level Group of CD's from Centerpointe, I also receive a Centerpointe License Agreement. The restrictions you ran into on EBay are precisely laid out in Section 1 - License and Retrictions on Use, and Section 4 - No Transfer.

Between the two sections it indicates that what you are buying is the privilege of using the program on the media provided, however, you cannot sell it, lend or rent it out, make more than one back-up copy, or use any part (in part or whole) to create derivative works (as in putting your own music over it and reselling it). In bold it states: "This Agreement is Not a Sale of the Program" without written consent of the Licensor (CRI).

When I got my Awakening Prologue it had a LOT of paper-work with it - is it possible you missed this, or perhaps dismissed it as extraneous advertisement? I know for sure that the Awakening Level 1 and 2 programs had the paperwork as well.

I do not think it is fair for people to diss Centerpointe because they protect their business rights. Certainly, in an age where stealing other peoples music has become a past-time of thousands, it seems OK to also steal other intellectual works, or sell them for profit when you have no right to do so. I just don't see how the attitude fits in with the desire to raise ones spiritual attributes - it just doesn't make sense.

Metaphorically speaking, it's like someone running up to Saint Peter and picking his pocket in hopes of getting the key to the Pearly Gates! (Maybe a little extreme, but I think it fits).

Namaste,
Unis

Bill Harris mentions that when people move on to other levels, it would be okay with him that people can sell their used CD as long as they are in good condition and the person buying it doesn't object to the quality. However, that only applies for the original CD. Making copies and selling them would be illegal for any program, not only Centerpointe regardless of whether you like the company or not.

Remember, you can get to Los Angeles from New York in many different ways - it depends on what you like and prefer. People will definitely choose different ways.

TWIX,
Have you checked out some of the paraliminal programs for a faster response of your objectives below?
"More happiness and flow in my life,
Increased focus, concentration......,
Better sleep,
Super-deep meditation.....and so on."

Most of LSC programs come with a minimum of 30 days refund policy and you can just call and extend to 6 months. During that time, just call up one of the coaches and their help/suggestions can make a big difference in how you approach a situation.

[This message has been edited by DesertSphinx (edited November 16, 2005).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Unis:

(Certainly, in an age where stealing other peoples music has become a past-time of thousands, it seems OK to also steal other intellectual works, or sell them for profit when you have no right to do so. I just don't see how the attitude fits in with the desire to raise ones spiritual attributes - it just doesn't make sense. Metaphorically speaking, it's like someone running up to Saint Peter and picking his pocket in hopes of getting the key to the Pearly Gates! (Maybe a little extreme, but I think it fits).

Unis

I couldn't agree more with your comments above.

Cheers
Steve.

[This message has been edited by Stevie (edited November 18, 2005).]

I think Antonios is complaining about the fact that he cannot sell his original CDs on eBay ...

Actually I think he was trying to buy a higher level on ebay, but was unable to, apparently because CRI informed ebay about the licensing materials it now distributes with each new set of CD's.

If Centerpointe wants to restrict individuals from re-selling their CD's, then that is their prerogative. However, IMO it should be incumbent upon them to inform potential buyers of this, before and not after they make the purchase.

Can an agreement like that even be considered legally binding, if the customer isn't informed about it in advance, or isn't required to sign something?

I know I would be a little surprised if I bought a music CD, and then found a message in the liner notes telling me I couldn't re-sell it at a used CD shop..!

As far as the ethics of the situation are concerned, I do agree that it is unethical for someone to duplicate and/or make the exact content of the Centerpointe CD's freely available, for instance by copying and posting a complete level on a P2P site, or distributing/selling CD copies of the original.

However if someone has purchased a level, then resale IMO is just as honorable an option for them as it was for CRI to sell the material in the first place.
Like I said, if CRI wants to legally restrict that, fine, but the customer should be given notice of this before and not after the fact.

[This message has been edited by garics (edited November 18, 2005).]

Well I guess the money-back guarantee covers the "before" part...I assume they still offer a money-back guarantee.

They should still let the customer know sometime during the sale, that there are these restrictions on the product after it is sold.

Don't they have a sticker on the cellophane wrap on the package with some sort of legal agreement stuff on it? They should definitely put it on there.

They might be doing this to keep people from buying, copying, and selling... which makes sense to do, actually, given the price of the products.

It doesn't surprise me that Centerpointe, being as unabashedly money-driven as they are, would do this. If you prevent people from selling their CDs, then customers must use Centerpointe as the sole provider of the product, so ... more money for them.

Oh ... listened to the Perfect Meditation CD level one for the first time last night.

I must say that it was a pretty intense experience. It actually gave me a headache. I had a feeling like there was a lot of stuff going on inside of my head and felt like it was going to pop. Don't know if that is good (given the philosophy that you're "baking" while meditating) or not.

There are crackles and audio-artifacts on the disks that are irritating. The accompanying material explains that this is due to the incredibly advanced audio technology producing effects that are not produceable by lower quality headphones.

Well, it must be super dooper amazing technology, because they occur on high quality Sennheiser headphones. More likely it's just crap that the creator didn't have the technology or skill to clean up.

Graics,

I heard and saw it in writing from Bill Harris that CRI permits the resell
of the cds/tapes but the copying.

Cheers,

[QUOTE]Originally posted by babayada:
[B]Oh ... listened to the Perfect Meditation CD level one for the first time last night.

Babayada

Would you recommend the Perfect Meditation CD given the experience you have just described or is it too early to say yet?

Well, I have listened to it a few more times since my last post.

A lot of people believe that the primary benefit of programs like Centerpointe's is the long term effect it has. So, if you're asking for a comparison in that regard, I really can't say. I'd have to tell you after like 5 years of doing it.

I found the soundtrack to be more than slightly annoying in parts, but now I am getting used to it. Warts and all, I like the soundtrack much better than Centerpointe's. I find Perfect Meditation to provide a similar but more powerful feeling meditational experience.

If you've got the money to spare for the first level, I'd say go ahead and try it out.

I don't think any of these products, however, are worth the prices people are asking for them. They should be sold for at most $16 a CD.

Someone with good audio skills or with access to someone with good audio skills would make a killing from selling a comparable product for $25 per level.

quote:

---

Originally posted by InquiringMind:
I think Antonios is complaining about the fact that he cannot sell his original CDs on eBay ...

---

No I was trying to buy a higher level than Centerpointe would sell to me.

I tried to make it clear in my post that I believe Centerpointe has the right to include whatever agreement they want in the sale of their products. I fully believe in free market capitalism.

I just choose not to buy any further products because I don't agree with the way they choose to do business.

I KNOW that my CD's (purchased in late 2001/mid 2002)did not include any licensing agreement because I read everything that came with them. If CRI has added this licensing agreement then I see no problem with their action IF that licensing agreement applied to the CD's in question.

Corporations can include whatever paperwork that they like,but the fact of the matter is that it is not legally binding. Once you have bought the product you have the right to resell it at a later date. Duplicating and P2P sharing are obviously illegal. The resale of the original product is not. I do not blame ebay for cooperating with companies who complain about their products being resold,they probably do not need the hassle.
But what next book and music publishers going around charity shops insisting second hand goods being removed from sale!
Incidentally I have had great results from Centerpointe over five years. But I agree that they are way overpriced.

It's quite possible the person selling the course is known to be selling copies and that's why thesale was stopped.

Alex

Twix, Relax! Stop looking for results. This may be what's holding you back. Sometimes when we look for results it makes them very elusive.

Look at it like this - at least you have an hour rest period each day - that can only be good for you.

I believe that if you relax and stop looking for the results they will come one day unexpectedly.

quote:

---

Originally posted by babayada:
Well, I have listened to it a few more times since my last post.

A lot of people believe that the primary benefit of programs like Centerpointe's is the long term effect it has. So, if you're asking for a comparison in that regard, I really can't say. I'd have to tell you after like 5 years of doing it.

I found the soundtrack to be more than slightly annoying in parts, but now I am getting used to it. Warts and all, I like the soundtrack much better than Centerpointe's. I find Perfect Meditation to provide a similar but more powerful feeling meditational experience.

If you've got the money to spare for the first level, I'd say go ahead and try it out.

I don't think any of these products, however, are worth the prices people are asking for them. They should be sold for at most $16 a CD.

Someone with good audio skills or with access to someone with good audio skills would make a killing from selling a comparable product for $25 per level.

---

It is now December 27 - and I wonder how you are doing with PM? I just ordered as I was impressed by the responses to my Q's. I am also an ex-H'sync user, and judging by the sound of the "strength" that you mentioned, I may well need to take it easy [with PM]as I did not like the overwhelm experienced with H'sync. Your comments would be most apprecaited. Thanks!
minniem

Hi all, I was just reading this thread and had no idea that I'm not allowed to lend my cd's. I always thought you weren't allowed to sell and copy so I have never done that. What is the definition of lend. There are 8 people in my household here and we all use them. I am up to AL4 CD2 and I have spent so much money (though it is absolutely worth it, I am such a different person) but what a waste to have to throw them away after you have finished cause you never have to do that cd again.

I have actually been lending them out to all my friends and family. I have 8 brothers and sisters who are nearly all married and six children of my own. So I even keep a book on who has what cd. I thought I was doing the right thing and being very generous without breaking the law. I even told all of them to make sure they don't copy them or I won't lend them anymore.

That notification on the package (though I didn't realise you couldn't lend) has only been on the last 2 levels.

Smiles
Jenny