Have you been searching for a long time trying to find a way of becoming enlightened?
Like quite a few on this forum who I suspect have tried various methods ,meditation, being the watcher, qigong, Holosync, chanting,
etc. etc. over the years, you, like me have had limited success and apart from the odd moment have not truly become enlightened.
I recently came across a site (which perhaps some of you may have used) but I found it remarkable because it says that to become enlightened you need to be GIVEN a mystical experience from God/Universal Energy or from someone who can transmit the power and change your brain/DNA etc. generally speaking you can't do it on your own.
You can keep trying different methods but the way forward is to forget all the stuff you've read and tried and UNLEARN everything.
I'm not going to go into the whole background as you can read it yourself try this link for starters then check out Sri
Kalki and his teachings. http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Golden_Age_Foundation/id/1070
There is also a lot of scientific background info on other bits of the site
where people who have been enlightened by Kalki have been tested by Professors from Sweden & USA in Jan 2006 with EEG, MRI scans and other equipment.
It looks to be true and feels like this could be the real thing.
I look forward to reading your thoughts on this, but am offline for a couple of weeks so plenty of time for comments?
Enjoy, Love and Light
Faune

[This message has been edited by Faune (edited April 27, 2006).]

There a few things that pop out from this interview with Sri Ananda Giri that I really like:

1. He ackowledges that there a two kinds of people in the world (spiritual seekers and people who are not spiritual seekers). I would add that in the spiritual seeker category there are people who realize that they are seekers (awakened) and those who do not yet realize it (asleep).

2. The inclusion of women.

3. The statement that what we have to discover has three parts (you must discover yourself, you must discover the mysteries behind creation, and lastely personally meet God (aka the Universe, the Source, etc.)

It is also worth noting that Enlightenment is only attained AFTER awakening.

I have had moments that seemed like enlightenment- as soon as I settle into it and become used to my new level of awareness, that becomes my "normal".

I feel that for me, enlightenment is not somethng to attain, it is not a static state, but rather a continual unfolding or blossoming. This means that I am continualy evolving myself- that although I am (hopefuly) in a process of becomming more and more enlightened, I may never be completely enightened.

I have met some very highly advanced people- I have a great deal of respect for them- and I also see flaws- so do they, I am sure, otherwise would they be enlightened?

I do agree with the idea of unlearning- I realy do think that alot of the time we need to dehypnotise ourselves, come out of trance...to our natural state

It has been helpful to have people around who are at a higher place than I- and I also think that it is not needed in order to advance- things can happen spontaneously. That being said, those people have been a great help to me.

vitaman

Hi,

Thank you for your comments, interesting?
However does anyone agree with the premise that it takes, as Kalki says, a
major neurological change in the brain to start the enlightenment process?
Most people who are acknowledged to be enlightened have had a life changing experience, for the Buddha it was light, David Hawkins a near death
experience, David Icke a Kundalini awakening etc all of all of which triggered a state of bliss and super awareness and an out of this world feeling which seems to have caused changes in the brain.
Is Holosync on the right track in creating new neural pathways through brain entrainment? Maybe, but too long a process - not to mention the $ cost.
I'm just trying to find out what does get you to the enlightened state and what Kalki and his followers say does seem to make sense. If we are facing a major shift in the world by 2012 then the sooner more of us are enlightened, and quickly, the better for everyone.

Love & light,
Faune

Well, if you look at it from a larger perspective, everything is energy. but on a smaller level your mind is plugged into your brain from a higher dimension. Your mind is the first cause that everything originates from. Now this is not to say that the brain cannot affect the mind indirectly but the mind is always in control even if you decide not to exercise that control.

When you take in new knowledge/experience it adds fibers to your energy bodies (assuming you have more than one). These fibers cause a shift in your physiology and create new neural pathways in your brain to allow you to better handle or intepret the fullness of the information contained within your energy being.

As an example, let's say you visit a park. There are millions of things going on in every instant but your brain may only be picking up on a fraction of the total experience. Now this is speaking subconsciously. Consciously, however you get an even smaller portion of the experince that your subconscious recorded.

So there is definately a change needed in the brain but that comes only as result of a change in the energy being.

I think holosync is very limited in its approach. While it may (perhaps?) build neural pathways (to what extent?) it does not however give you control of any kind over that new machinery you have built. Think of it like taking LSD. It may push you into having spiritual experiences but since you are not the one in control, if you ever lose access to the drug you will not be able to go back. The same holds true of Holosync. if you acheive something interesting and you lose the ability to listen to your CD's then you are left stranded with out your crutches.

A second issue I have with holosync is the stated purpose according to Bill Harris is not the experiences but to feel better or make your brain work better, or other mundane physical trivalities. I feel he has it backwards. He is more interested in the car than he is in the trip.

Third is the price. I think they string you along and drag out the course much more than is necessary. I think the guy is too money oriented. Anyone who has done any business with them knows hwo they get flooded with direct marketing from tons of other people that he gives your information to.

I forgot to add about your question concerning "what gets you there".

It is primarily the following

-Having a high enough vibration, having enough prana

-Dropping the emotional, social and psychological baggage of the past that is dead weight and keeping you fixed in your current perspective (you have to get outside the box)

-Having adequate 6th sense development to bridge you over into higher states of awareness (this requires adequate levels of prana to fuel these abilties)

-Mastering your mind, thoughts and emotions so you can peer past everything you "think" is you and find the real you

-Having enough conceptual understanding to know how to gather prana, utilize the prana you have gathered, and interpet the information you receive from your higher sensories

If you are serious and looking at 2012 as a deadline of sorts then I would suggest the quickest way to get there is through the Higher Balance Star Reach Program. This will give you all the tools, guidance and understanding necessary to get there in the most direct way. Anyone of the Star Reach Participants in this forum can vouch for it being light years ahead of anything else available.

www.higherbalance.com

http://www.higherbalance.com/expansion/star_reach.php

Why worry about 2012? NOW is where it is at...hanging out in future maybes is not where I find enlightenment.

It is great for goal setting and idealising, but that is not how my spirit taps in...Some things just happen in their own time, wanting and hurrying puts it farther away. Every significant spiritual experience happened to me when I was present, now- not while attached to future or past...

If what your guru says realy fits for you, realy resonates, then go for it. Remember that you can always choose your heros...I have been blessed with many.

vitaman

BTW, I like Centrepointes product, but the price is very prohibitive, so I stopped...and how they can call something that goes on and on "the end" is beyond me....LOL

Absolutely things must happen in thier own time, but effort is still required. You get your destined future unless you work to change it. We all know the future is an illusion just as the past is. There is only now. So the question is what do you want your "now" to become. How you spend your "now" will affect what your now becomes.

In general I would agree to follow what resonates with you, however always keep in mind the warning about "believing in what you 'want' to be true". Avoid getting caught up in a feel good system that doesn't produce anything. Religion is notorious for this.

Vita-man

You got it! I really couldn't have put it better.

Now is where it's at. It's the ONLY place to be.

And as you say you can choose your own hero or guru or way of seeing life but it pays to remember it is ONLY your hero or guru etc. and not necessarily anyone else's.

I am afraid none of this post resonated with me at all. It just left me with a vague feeling that life does not have to be as complicated as this. But hey, no worries, that's just the way I am and I am happy with that. I love life when it feels extraordinarily simple. That way, life has always been at its best and most beautiful for me.

You see sometimes just sitting in a coffee house watching the world go bye or sitting by my window on a summer evening watching Swallows circling in the sky is enough for me; no worrying about the past or the future or where this particular "now" is going to take me. I am too in the now to care, and too in it to even notice anything else.

So Vita man, you must tell me, what it was about Holosync you liked. Did it do anything for you and if it wasn't for the expense would you have maybe continued with it?

Regards
Steve

Thanks Guys,

Your take on what I asked is not quite what I expected.
First I ditched Holosync because of the expense and secondly I am in the middle of the HB programme.
Living in the now is a given - the past is gone and the future is not here so any and everything can only take place in the present moment.
But --- I am not entirely averse to a bit of planning. You still have to live and function in this world and unless you are lucky enough not to have any commitments, responsibilities and enough money to be able to do your own thing then you do need to plan to provide for your dependents etc. I did change my secure Government job a few years ago to one more in line with my abilities and now I am retired.

However the crux of the matter was whether or not anyone thought that enlightenment is a bio/neurological change in the brain and DNA caused by an external experience or if it is something else? But no one seems to have picked up on this.

I did not say that Kalki was my Guru or hero , only that what he says seems to have the ring of truth; also he is neither a cult leader or a religious leader, his life purpose is to enlighten people. I actually follow and practice SFQ - Master Chunyi Lin.

2012. Well I don't know. I've read a bit about it and certainly many people seem to think that is is a pivotal date for our planet and there seem to be a lot of statements from persons who are regarded as enlightened that it is a turning point.
Hope this clears up some things
Love & light
Faune

I actually did address your question, yes it requires a neurological change but that change is the result of a vibrational change in your energy body. Drugs can reverse this process but it causes damage in most cases and you really have no control over the outcome.

Lord Shandor has a good point about effort- being in the now does not mean complacence or laziness- please don't take it that way...

Steve, I liked alot about their product, it was a good way to meditate, and I was getting many benefits from it- benefits showed up in my QiGong, martial arts, and other spiritual practices. Yes, I would have continued if it were not for the incredibly high price...and the pumped up hype too.

vitaman

Hi Vita-man 'effort- being in the now does not mean complacence or laziness- please don't take it that way...'
I don't believe I have been either and no I am not taking offence , but merely stating a fact . I always, as far as I am able, try to be aware of the 'babbler' and getting hooked into past or future. I do the old exercise of look up, down left , right, visualise, listen,feel --- to bring me back to the moment.

Lord Shandor,
'I actually did address your question, yes it requires a neurological change but that change is the result of a vibrational change in your energy body.'

Thank you for that, but how do you think that change occurs? What Kalki says is that it can be from a mystical God given experience or given to you by someone who knows how - but either way you cannot do it yourself. It comes from outside you.

Love and light
Faune

The change occurs through conscious effort, through increasing awareness. it is something you can do on your own through enough will and reflection OR it can be achieved by someone of a higher consciousness pushing your energy beyond its current boundaries. Eric talks a bit about this in Reverse Engineering the Self. Basically they build up your frequency using thier own energy.

Think of the old saying, "You become like those you spend your time with".

In a manner of speaking it comes from outside you because its your higher self, that which is closer to god. But in a nother way of seeing it, everything is connected so it really comes from within.

To say it comes from outside of you would be true when speaking of your awareness/consciousness. It is outside the norm of your current reality. This would be a spiritual experience that expands your world view and shows you other possibilties. This is not to say it "must" happen this way, but more often than not it tends to require it because people are so deeply asleep.

In my own case I have never had any mystical experiences that caused me to start looking for answers. I have always had an innate desire to find it and it did not require a catalyst experience. I always wanted one but never found it. So this tells me that an outside force is not required (speaking of mystical experiences) to get you on the path. Once on the path you are really talking terms of development. The more profound experiences tend to be "leaps" forward as opposed to incremental changes in being.

I think it takes interest, sincere effort and consistence. I think it takes an open mind as well.

Does that make more sense?

So the short answer would be, no it doesn't require outside intervention but because of being asleep, most will find this to be their experience.

While in University, Alan Watts, Taoism, Zen, and all that really, really turned me on. I remember reading Alan Watts and feeling totally buzzed. He presented a totally new way of thinking, and thinking in that manner felt really good.

It's almost like philosophical crack.

I spent a long time reading up on it, thinking about it, doing various practices, meditating.

But now, looking back on all of it, I find that I was unquestioning about a lot of things. What exactly was this enlightenment I was seeking? What did I think it was going to do for me? And is that really desirable?

From my current point of view, enlightenment doesn't seem all that desirable. There are alternatives that help me meet my goals much better. Dealing with my life now, as is, and not seeking enlightenment or some other lofty goal, I am able to deal with more immediate concerns and find more pleasure in the moment. What I wanted from seeking comes more immediately from living in the world and finding, right in the present moment.

I've observed people, most notably my brother who suffers from brain-damage, and have learned a lot about lofty goals. My brother's condition reveals directly what most people hide. His arguments and confabulations are more transparent, but from observation and comparison I can see the same things that go on with him happen with everybody.

Typically, when he craves something and cannot fulfill his desire, his arguments go up, up, and up into lofty realms. The issue is not that he is craving some particular thing or other, it becomes an issue of freedom. Well, so much for freedom, because when his basic desire is fulfilled, discussions about freedom disappear.

It's my hypothesis that spiritual seekers have an itch or a complex of itches. These itches derive from basic needs that are going unfulfilled. When the seeker satisfies the itch (which is usually a base desire), the seeking stops.

I might be totally wrong about this. Most probably, this hypothesis is correct for some cases but not all. As an experiment, you might want to ask, "What if my spiritual needs are actually basic physical, psychological, or social needs? If so, what would they be?"

If you get answers to that question, go about fulfilling those needs and then see how you feel about your spiritual quest once they are satisfied. You might find that the immanent trumps the transcendental efficiently.

Hi Lord Shandor and Babayada,

Thank you for your replies which have given me much to ponder.

Lord Shandor
,' I have never had any mystical experiences that caused me to start looking for answers. I have always had an innate desire to find it and it did not require a catalyst ' -
This I think, describes awakening but not enlightenment as I believe it to be. Can you truly say that you, or anyone you know is enlightened? or would you say that you are an awakened seeker?
If you read or listen to those who are avatars they almost all were first awakened seekers who then had a sudden life changing experience which in many cases made them withdraw from the world for a period of time and which completely changed their perspective. Some say it is like being re-born.
What Kalki says is that all teachings are useless if you are seeking enlightenment because they only create another concept for the mind to hang onto. Teachings can follow enlightenment but no teaching can produce it. No amount of effort can get you there.
There are as many different kinds of enlightenment as there are people but the common thread is awakening of the true self and the permanent dissolution of conflict and suffering. The entire framework of past conditioning disappears as do expectations of the future. This is often accompanied by states of cosmic consciousness and bliss, profound perceptual changes, sharpened senses and the sense of separate identity dissolves. Thoughts still flow through the mind but do not emanate from the mind.
Realise there are things you can do to prepare yourself but it is by grace and grace alone. It happens not through effort or study but in surrendering to divine intervention or grace which provides the change in cosciousness & DNA.

Baba,
The theory that you propose is a valid one, we can change the our ideas , concepts and beliefs, and fulfill our basic needs but that does not mean that our inner nature has changed. I think enlightenment is the change in our inner nature (soul) and some of us not only want but need that change.
Love and light
Faune

RE: seeking

I found something called Big Mind several months back, and it was previously discussed on this forum. This guy does a gestalt like process that gets you quickly beyond the ego, seeker, etc to be very present.

I got the mp3s from a radio show and from a seminar- they worked great!

http://www.integralnaked.org/live/view_bigmind.aspx
or
http://www.bigmind.org/media.html

babayada

The core issue here, as I see it, is not about what you accomplish here and now so much as what you are building for once you leave here. I would agree to a point that concentrating on more earthly matters seems to bring more instant gratification and would on a superficial level seems like the more desirable route to go. I feel your thinking is limited however in that it sounds as if you assume that "this" is all there is so you might as well get all you can now because once you are gone then it won't matter. If that is your perspective then what you are saying makes perfect sense. If you hold a larger perspective then it is a very shortsighted way of viewing the world.

Now in reference to people stopping their search once unfulfilled needs are met you do have a point and that is very true of some or most seekers. It is the nature of man and the nature of Gaia to forget about the important things when you enter a state of comfort. Slaves dream of freedom but if they become free and forget how bad it was they can be led back to slavery over time and never realize they have become enslaved again. America is the perfect example of this. The slaves think they are free because they have the biggest cage with the shiny gold chains. Comfort leads to forgetfulness.

I would tend to think that those who forget are relatively new souls and are easily distracted. Many people look everywhere for something and simply can't find it. Relationships don't do it, money doesn't do it, family doesn't do it, career doesn't do it. Nothing seems to fill that void. Often this leads to deep depression or religious fanaticism.

I definately agree that people are comforted by their lies and that intentions are rarely pure or honest. Knowing this we can seek to change it and move to a higher state of being. The fact that people are dishonest does not make the spiritual path less valid, it is simply one of many pitfalls on the road to keep you from getting to where you need to go.

2012. Hmmmm. I like that. And it also coincides with my own plans.

But of course, being an engineer, I would like to put it this way: 2012 +/- 5yrs.

:-D :-D :-D

p.s. This message is not meant to be just a joke, though joking is never far from me. ;-)

Faune,

How is it you expect to find enlightenment without teachings? Are you going to find them on your own by stumbling across them by accident? if one has already attained enlightenment then the teachings would be meaningless to them as their whole point is to steer you in the direction of that goal and show you what is keeping you from getting there. I disagree that effort cannot get you there. While you cannot force it, it is not just going to happen for no reason. Everything is an exchange of energy in the universe and you are not going to get somethign as profound as enlightenment given to you free of charge. You have to earn it.

Most of the so called "avatars" all seem to make similar claims about being these god type beings who came to earth and were enlightened from birth or from materialization to the physical plane. I find their claims rather questionable.

Hi Everyone,
As usual with this forum, a very interesting thread. It does seem to come down to perceptions of what enlightenment actually means to different people. It's at times like these that I always fall back on the same old chestnut - all discussions of these matters include inherent paradoxes. Such as the whole notion of striving for enlightenment - searching for "truth", when according to many philosophies, this enlightened "higher self" is already here, within, it's just that we can't see it. No real searching needs to be done fundamentally - perhaps we just need to switch channels, change our spectacles... The dream analogy is always a good one. Is enlightenment the state we achieve when we have woken up, or does it represent a lucid dreaming state? If we're busy lliving in ignorance in the dream, what motivations and actions can we take in the dream world to help kick start the lucid or awakened state? How do we prod the sleeping person - our "real self" - into awakening when we're still stuck in the dream? Perhaps that is where the act of grace you speak about might come in, Faune. At the same time, it is clear that some dreamers have had glimpses of awakening while others have heard about it and strive for it. Does this act of striving keep us within the dream? Is it just another facet of the dream state? Does it in fact prevent us from waking up by binding us to desires (albeit desires which aspire to transcendence and awakening)?
I totally appreciate the tendency for enlightenment aspiration to become another rat race. I also appreciate how the very nature of our existence at present seems to require at least some sense of purpose - or at least that's what I have been indoctrinated into thinking and believing. Without sounding woolly, and it has been mentioned already, I do also feel that presence, awareness and the current moment, each moment, moment by moment, is where the answers lie. Or rather where the questions and answers co-exist in harmony. I suppose if we manage to tune in to that fine line, that balance, that harmony, we will realise "we" don't really exist in the way that we think we do. "We" therefore can't really strive or reach a concept of enlightenment. Perhaps the only conclusion we will come to is "I AM" or "BEING".
All the rest, including the concepts, motivations, desires, experiences, everything is perhaps then simply absorbed or subsumed into that.
best wishes
Ingrid

Where to start? I came to this forum because I wanted to record and share some of my thoughts at the moment, and they do not fully fall under the SFQ format. Then I saw this thread and read the many ideas. I won't try and address all the great ideas here or even make the appropriate linkages to previous authors, although many of my thoughts echo theirs.

I'll start by trying to focus on several of my thoughts that stem from the original post, and we'll see where I end up.

First, I'm not search I really know what enlightenment is. I've read from different traditions and there seems to be some commonalities in the qualities of people of wisdom / knowledge / enlightenment. However, there are also significant differences between the ideas of how the universe works and how we relate to it and how we get to this pinacle level in these traditions. The science side of me favours the commonalities in these teachings. It also seeks a prespective that can embrace all the apparent differences, as merely different aspects or experience of underlying commonalities. To find and understanding that accepts the variants as natural possibilities.

I don't consider myself as a seeker of enlightenment, but perhaps I am. I see a lot of people traveling my way that say they are. I am seeking something, I'm not quite sure what it is. I have some ideas about what it may be, or how I might experience it.

I wasn't seeking anything except to create more happiness in my life, when I did have one of those WOW-life-isn't-what-I-thought-it-was experiences. It has changed my perspective on the universe and myself. But I didn't decide enlightenment was what I must achieve. Shortly after (or maybe before (a day or two)) I discovered my life's purpose. This all happened at a time when I didn't believe in a life's purpose and really hadn't cared about the whole idea.

I also recieved guidance that I should follow SFQ, and gratefully I have. In the years that have followed, I have learned much and explored many aspects of self and self-potential. For the most part I see the same thing, with only a different vocabulary and different routes to the same destination.

Moving on to another idea, namely you can't be taught enlightenment. I agree that you can't be taught it. You must experience it. Self advancement must be experienced. The teaching may give you great help in having the experiences we label advancement.

The idea that a external party Must change you is almost a matter of symantics for me. Everyone is energy. Every idea we share interacts with us and changes us. Every idea we send out into the universe changes us. So being around people who have an energy signature you wish to duplicate is great. Thinking about them and their teaching (their energy) brings you into greater harmonly with their energy. So yes I think teachers are good, although I've already said that teaching doesn't advance you. I say this because it isn't the knowledge that changes you it's the interaction of the energy and the changes in you, in your thoughts and actions, that advance you.

Digressing a little, at one time I spent a lot of effort trying to recreate that experience that changed my view of the universe (you might call it an awakening). I've since realized that one must let go of ones attachment (desires and avoidance) for the good as well as the bad. You must release the desire to recreate the past or create the future. You must be in the now. You can create now as anything you want.

I have had that energetic experience a few more times. However, only when I was in the now. Not when I was trying to recreate it. I always came apon me when I was doing something that was aligned with my purpose.

Branching onto another idea again. The idea of the universe, and I, and you (all of you) as one, is what is central to my belief and experience. This is also an idea I've since read about in other traditions. I'm not sure it you call that enlightenment or awakening, and I really don't care about the labels. Especially, since they tend to be relavent in a single tradition.

My expectation is that those who are seen at the pinacle of each tradition, are not necessarily at the pinacle. They are just the ones who have traveled the farthest along those paths. I appreciate all they have achieved and all they share. I understand that I can benefit by learning from each and advancing myself in the direction they have traveled. I also realize that my path may be someplace different from theirs.


Okay, I've made this about me again. However, that is what I know best. There are other ideas I wanted to talk about, but maybe at another time.

You are perfection,
Iam2

Hi Iam2 and Ingrid,

Thankyou for your insights, I have replied to others in private posts mainly because I was having problems with getting my replies onto the site. However all now seems resolved.

The main thread of this topic was the premise by Kalki (Avatar of Enlightenment) that enlightenment is a neurobiological change which can be given to a spiritual seeker by him,Kalki, through the Grace of God - or if enlightenment was a state you could get to by practicing. I had chanced on the site which explained the process and it seemed to me to explain a lot which I had thought impossible.

Over the years I had tried many spiritual practices and like Iam2 found myself drawn to SFQigong which is my mainstay but I keep feeling this sense of urgency and know I have to move on. Why? I don't know but it is there and is a gut feeling.
I know and accept that there are many roads to enlightenment and some seem to feel it is not right that one could receive enlightenment without
'working your butt off to get it' but I am in agreement with Kalki that it is a gift of grace, neurobiological or no and that many have received this gift without quite knowing what caused the change.

So far that's where I stand on the matter and I also believe that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions.

Love and light,
Faune

Some scattering of thoughts.


I always take exception to anyone that says X, Y or Z is hard. Nothing is hard, it just is. Saying it is hard just increases the barriers you must overcome to achieve the goal.

To me when I hear a teacher say, "I must work for something", I interpret that to me that I must do it. It is something I have to experience. There is a difference between knowing and believing. A Belief is much more powerful. Experience can change something you know into something you believe.

------

Just today, I was reading about Buddha (or should I say buddhas). Yeah, that's one of the things I learned (28 I now understand, and The Buddha wasn't even number one). As well the material I read indicated there are different types of buddhas, some that achieve enlightenment through the teachings of another and those that discover it on their own. Oh and different branches of Budhism.

-----

As for the changing DNA statements. This doesn't sit will with me. Including the LSC references. Qi (and everything is qi) can change anything (qi can transform). However, I don't think that any of those techniques have demonstrated a chemical or genome change in DNA. That's not to say that the DNA hasn't been change, but that's not how the majority of people will interpret those statements. DNA has a strong, but not fully understood, broad meaning for people. They know it's important.

It is very important. It's what takes a single cell and makes ME. Not only did it make me, but it made a me that can fix itself. It made a me that can make more mes.

What I don't like is that people make reference to changes in DNA, when the changes quite probably are changes to every molecule in you. But changes to DNA is more impressive than making changes to your water.

Sorry for the DNA tirade, but now I can exhale.



You are perfection.
Iam2

Yes, I have experienced these deeksha energies. An interesting concept. Rewire the brain using energy to gain enlightenment. Some people appear to benefit from this. See http://www.onenessuniversity.org/oneness/cms/home/ https://www.onenessmovement.org/index.cfm? http://www.deekshausa.com/ http://www.enlightenment-online.com/ http://www.onenessforall.com/ for more information on receiving deekshas. YMMV

However, going beyond deekshas, holosync, etc., you still have to do some legwork. I would recommend reading "The Disappearance of the Universe" by Gary Renard, about arguably the most advanced spiritual teachings on the planet to get started on the fast track to God.

Hi shr33m,

Did you actually go through through the experience at Golden City, India?
If so how did you enrol and what did it feel like to you? Do you think/know if your DNA changed?
Iam2 has queried this aspect.
I will read the book you recommend.

Thanks for your reply,

Love & light,
Faune

I'm not to sure about this. I do believe that a physical change in the mind does occur when someone becomes enlightened but I don't believe that this man can make some one enlightened. Also, his saying that someone can not become enlightened on their own but can only be enlightened with help from god or someone who has the gift makes me wonder because he is one of the few or maybe only one who is said to be able to make people enlightened. Another thing that strikes me as skeptical is that he charges a big lump of money for people to see him. Also being an Indian as well I know how people swarm to different swamis and bhagwans by the dozens even though their methods are phony.

Hi Peacefulmind,

It's many years since I lived in India but I don't think you can lump all Avatars together and call them phoney.
I have read a lot about Kalki and his methods and I understand his work has been monitored and investigated thoroughly by Professors, Doctors and Scientists from USA , Sweden ,and Denmark.
Kalki states there are many ways of becoming enlightened and also that he does not care whether or not you believe him. I do agree with him that enlightenment is a gift of grace.
As to 'the big lump of money' This is for a three week stay at his Ashram and includes accommodation, food and one to one teaching. The amount involved is very reasonable compared with any Western Course, about 75% less!
Since he provides all the above and has to also provide for his staff plus maintainance of the buildings and grounds I'd say it was very fair.

Love and light,
Faune

Hi evryone

I was reading some posts, and all are very intresting, but what does enlightenment mean? what does a person that has reached this can do? how to know when you've reached it?

thanks

Hi Pablomx;

I can give my take on enlightement which might fuel some others to do the same.

Enlightenment is sort of like having Financial Freedom of the Mind/Spirit. There are levels of it of course. One wealthy person who has to manage their money wisely to ensure it grows is not the same as someone with Old Money that has been established and pretty much takes care of itself.

So it is with enlightenment. When you hit that first level of enlightenment you see all kinds of possibilites in life. You see what also got you to that first level and probably will keep doing the same thing to strengthen it.

You would experience a Mental and Spiritual Freedom (or taste of) that you did not have before. Some side effects might be, looking at things completely different. Once something was very difficult to face and deal with, it now seems like childs play.

The Universe seems to support you in your quests. When you need things they seem to appear at the right time. If they don't appear, it probably wasn't what you really needed anyway.

You will still "chop wood and carry water", go to the bathroom and all of lifes necessities, although you will feel much happier about it all and probably want more of that enlightenment thing.

hope that helps

Jeff

I'm not enlightened, but I think that focusing on it is probably counter-productive.

I like Shunryu Suzuki's attitude... which is to focus on practice and not worry so much about enlightenment.

I think enlightenment is when you get it on a very deep level that many things are simply just a matter of perception, and that, perhaps, you perceive some kind of objective truth that doesn't leave you.

So, when you're enlightened, it doesn't become such an effort to see things more as they really are and less shaded by past history and other filters that distort information coming through your senses.

Enlightenment, though, may not be truth but may be just a better, more functional illusion than the one you had before enlightenment.

I don't know, however, because I've never been there. I've had moments that I consider enlightening.... but they haven't led to enlightenment as a permanent or semi-permanent state.

all there is is liberation

zahirkhan.com

I believe that the word enlightenment has been watered down from its ancient meaning. I believe people confuse awaking with enlightenment. I personally reserve the word enlightenment to mean the following: To use a metaphor, every cell in your body explodes and you announce your presence to God/The Universe/The Force. When people say I had a moment of enlightenment, I believe what they really experienced was a moment of being awake.

I believe we are all energy beings who inhabit physical bodies so we can experience this solid physical dimension. This energy enters our body at the moment of birth and departs a few minutes after we die. What happens to this energy while we are alive and after we die is up to us.

Now I also believe that there is a force that keeps us all in a form of sleep during our lives. A movie might call this force keeping us asleep the matrix. When we awake in the morning, we are moving from one form of sleep to another.

But occasionally people break the hold the matrix has on their perceptions. Toltec shamans talk of entering a trance and seeing people as luminous orbs of light. The shaman trained himself to be aware our energy bodies.

Being aware contributes to entering enlightenment but being aware is not, in my opinion, enlightenment. From studying people who claim to be enlightened I think that not everyone who claims to be is. Also there are cycles to enlightenment, a spectrum.

I think you are speaking of Transcendance. As was started with Kalki the Avatar changing someones DNA to a higher level. This I would agree has nothing to do with awareness, well maybe a little, as you have to be looking for it. Some beings can help/do this for you if they believe you are sincere.

Enlightenment, I believe has everything to do with awareness. Especially since you know that you have had an experience that has raised your awareness, like having your Third Eye open.

From my experience I believe there are beings out there like Kalki (I don't know if he is the real deal) that can greatly advance your development just from being around them, this is done on a sub-conscious level and you see things happening that you could not do before but now is an everyday thing.

This is not an enlightening experience but more transcendal.