If Margaret is such a proficient photoreader, why does it seem as though she struggles to organize her thoughts into sentences?

What is the logic here?

1. It is a (alleged) fact that Margaret struggles to write coherent sentences.
2. Therefore her claims about her Photoreading performance are open to question.

I have difficulty following this. It's possible that one is performing Photoreading at high levels for the sake of learning how to be a better gardener, not a better writer. And if one were Photoreading to become a better writer, it does not follow that one's poor writing undermines the claims of Photoreading. It's possible that one is still reading quickly with high comprehension. It would call into question some of the claims of "direct learning" of new skills.

So, Sidis, please clarify.

I've never had trouble reading Margaret's posts. She expresses herself clearly and contributes valuable insights without resorting to irritating shorthand. What exactly is the point of singling her out?

Moises makes a good point about transference of skills. I've met many corporate presidents and vice presidents who struggle to write clearly or even spell properly. Although you would think that they would, it apparently wasn't their written communication skills that got them where they are. Being good leaders does not automatically mean they will be good written communicators. Where is the implied relationship between Photoreading and writing skills?

Having said all that, I'll continue to maintain that Margaret's posts are lucid and valuable and I look forward to each new post.

Are we to assume that your impressive communication skills also indicate great Photoreading talents? They certainly don't seem to indicate good relational skills.

I am not speaking of Margaret, or any others directly:

It is my own personal experience to have observed many book smart people who lack in other areas, over the past few years I've worked with my colleagues. However, due to the fact that those who correlate with my statements are not very proficient in the structure of the English language - they will soon come to suffer, indirectly.

It is NECESSARY to have good communication/oral skills, to succeed in the business world.

As far as mishaps *online,* that's a completely different matter. It's either a case of bad typing skills, or just choosing to relax - considering they believe there is NO DIRECT IMPACT (it's not face-to-face) of their statements.

Now, I for one - will tend to get confused if I start replacing "u" for "you."

Therefore, I like to maintain a style of professionalism in all aspects of the language - clear and precise.

Hm, it may be deceit - but most people will figure me extremely older than I may seem, due to such approaches. For example, one fellow I had known online for approximately 2-3 years never followed up on my age - he mistook me as some laid-back 40 year-old, instead of 16. It was hilarious, but we got things cleared up.

A/S/L is quite annoying on a first-statement basis. Yet, I think when the conversation transcends into a much deeper form - it's fine.

Anyhow, sorry for the ramblings, but at least I got some of my time occupied.

Teenagers who think they know it all tend to speak in an adult proffessional manner, makes them feel accepted and like an adult. I'm 18, and I am beggining to figure out that you don't need to talk like that on forums. Just speak your mind and be yourself.

I never noticed that Margaret posts anything incoherent. I-do- this- all- the time instead of using comma's or starting a new sentence- and no one said anything.

I find Margarets posts add substance to this forum and I always look forward to reading her experiences!

Margaret ... you're the best!

ROFL! - I don't know it all; Never said I did, and never will.

I tend to speak this way not only on forums, but in public.

It's my normal approach - not something that just started yesterday so I could "try and impress" you all.

I have been doing this for years - and no, I will not change it according to your post. I hardly think there's anything "wrong" with my tendencies.

For those of us who are "slang-challenged."
http://www.filetrading.net/html/slang/default.htm

First, I get great information from Margarets posts. So, Margaret, keep on posting, you replies are very helpful and insightful.

Second, concerning the questions about slang, shorthand and even questioning peoples intellect, let me just say,
this concern is a real humdinger, ain't it?

[This message has been edited by jonah (edited September 03, 2001).]

I'll make this very simple:

If you read a lot, and possess even a spark of intelligence, you tend to pick up the basic structure of the language and apply it to your own writing.

Margaret (and others - I just arbitrarily chose her name), with the use of PhotoReading, claims to have read a great deal (I'm saying anything over 1 book per week is a great deal relative to the average person).

Margaret HAS NOT picked up on basic syntax and CANNOT organize her thoughts clearly (many others, but, again, I chose her name for no reason in particular). So, she must be either: a) stupid, or; b) not reading the books.

If you are not picking up on the basic damn structure of the language you're reading, you are NOT comprehending it, period. You can't read something, understand what's being said, and totally disregard how it was presented to you. There's a natural flow to language that is necessary FOR comprehension, but, of course, I don't need to tell you that since you already knew it and are just arguing with me because you feel some superficial sense of loyalty to long time forum members (which I can understand, though it's quite silly).

"Teenagers who think they know it all tend to speak in an adult proffessional manner, makes them feel accepted and like an adult. I'm 18, and I am beggining to figure out that you don't need to talk like that on forums. Just speak your mind and be yourself."

Good thing you put that one through the ol' spell checker, eh? Brilliant insight, by the way.. I'm impressed with your wisdom (note: that was a sarcastic statement)

Sidis,

You seem like a relatively bright individual. What I do not understand is - why you are attacking members of the forum? There are many people who contribute to this forum who express themselves in a number of ways - some are highly organized and structured, some are not. In most cases, however, the contributions to the forum are productive and should not be discouraged - there is always the strong possibility that the contribution they have to make might be the key to overcoming the final stumbling block that someone else may have in trying to make the PhotoReading system work for them.

The kind of attack that you are making is the same nature of attack that I have seen in numerous journals of the "high IQ" clubs, such as Mensa, Intertel, the Triple Nine Society, and the ISPE. In these cases it has seemed that the individual making the attack was missing the argument being put forth and was instead focusing on details of grammar needlessly.

Finally, you might want to try to keep your ego a little more in check. I realize, as I wrote above, that you are probably a fairly bright individual - your choice of pseudonym indicates that you, at the very least, THINK you are pretty bright. You might want to give some thought to the fact that if you choose to engage in arguments on a regular basis and take "pot-shots" at people, you will come across somebody else with a little more cortical development than you and will be soundly trounced. Also, if you become too obnoxious you might find yourself bounced from the board.

Craig M. Parsons-Kerins
-The East Coast Omni-Heurist!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sidis:
I'll make this very simple:

If you read a lot, and possess even a spark of intelligence, you tend to pick up the basic structure of the language and apply it to your own writing.

Margaret (and others - I just arbitrarily chose her name), with the use of PhotoReading, claims to have read a great deal (I'm saying anything over 1 book per week is a great deal relative to the average person).

Margaret HAS NOT picked up on basic syntax and CANNOT organize her thoughts clearly (many others, but, again, I chose her name for no reason in particular). So, she must be either: a) stupid, or; b) not reading the books.

If you are not picking up on the basic damn structure of the language you're reading, you are NOT comprehending it, period. You can't read something, understand what's being said, and totally disregard how it was presented to you. There's a natural flow to language that is necessary FOR comprehension, but, of course, I don't need to tell you that since you already knew it and are just arguing with me because you feel some superficial sense of loyalty to long time forum members (which I can understand, though it's quite silly).

"Teenagers who think they know it all tend to speak in an adult proffessional manner, makes them feel accepted and like an adult. I'm 18, and I am beggining to figure out that you don't need to talk like that on forums. Just speak your mind and be yourself."

Good thing you put that one through the ol' spell checker, eh? Brilliant insight, by the way.. I'm impressed with your wisdom (note: that was a sarcastic statement)

---

Whut eef Margaret types fast?

Forgets words?

Doesn't go back und check because she's in a herry?

Huh? Uh, eeeerrrrrrrrr?

I gut emails all duh time from highly ejerkated people and it sounds like broken engish cuz it's just a darn email, it's a place to not be perfect and relax.

Gotta go, Wishbone is back on.

ckerins: Though I have yet to encounter anyone that I would be willing to say has more intellectual potential than me (keyword: potential; raw 'talent'), I'll reluctantly acknowledge your point of view and refrain from attacking any specific members of the board.

Since you mentioned High IQ societies, I'll take this opportunity to say that I've made it a point to avoid them at all costs, though I've scored high enough to qualify very easily for each and every one of them(except the Giga Society - if you can call P.Cooijmans' little club a 'society'). Besides the obvious facts that IQ scores are easy to improve, which negates their value, and that they only test one specific mode of thought (there are an infinite number of them; none more valuable than any others), the people who choose to JOIN these clubs, I find, are individuals who have self-esteem issues and seek out the companionship of like minded (close-minded!) people in order to comfort themselves. Understandable, but irritating nonetheless. That's a generalization and those tend to get me in trouble, so I'll save myself by saying that there ARE a rare few that can't be placed under the label of 'pseudo-intellectual'.

Anywho - I'm not picking apart grammar so it seems as though I win the argument, even though I'm not presenting anything substantial. I'm stating the simple fact (hehe - I've already layed down my hand because I've hinted that I believe in multiple truths, illuminating to all that I'm arguing for the sake of arguing, but I'll continue to do so, anyway!) that if you consume vast amounts of information, you WILL 'copy' the form in which it is presented to you and replicate it when it comes time for you to present your ideas to others. There's just no real way around it..

Lots of people on this board are smart - no doubt. At the same time, though, lots of people (usually the most adament supporters of the system) seem to be playing with a little less than a full deck, if you know what I mean.

Just looking for verification that the techniques work. I'm not devoting my time to something that doesn't work - too lazy.

Everyone makes mistakes when it comes to writing in English. I am in charge of writing articles for a news source, that will remain nameless here, almost once a day from October to June. I get some time off during the summer but I do enjoy my work.

I can tell you though that even professionals will managle a sentence or two every once in a while. It's really not that difficult to do. I also know when I post on a forum like this I do not really bother to check sentence structure because I couldn't care less if it sounds "professional". I save the "professional touch" for the articles I write.

There's no way that I can absolutely prove that the techniques work, especially to someone who lives far away, but I have recently been using some of them in my college studies and I find it much easier now to stay on top of texbook material.

Additionally, the techniques by themselves are not the entire story. Another important component of the system is changing one's attitute towards learning so that the techniques will yield more benefit.

It's at least worth a try, in my humble opinion. I hope my brief message has been of some help. If not, I apologize.

balkanboy2:
You really have too much time on your hands.
Go to bed and revisit your wife and put that restless energy to work will you???????

Who was this "balkanboy2?" Did he say anything insulting about my reply?

He is a skeptic like me to the PR system, except that he is needlessly confrontational, and obnoxious to other people in his posts (almost slanderous). As if that attitude changes anybody's mind - he did have some interesting things to say - but his attitude is an huge obstacle to conveying his message.

Oh my...

and here I sit with an advanced degree from the school of the spelling impaired. I once got 10% taken off of a geometry homework for spelling -- the teacher wanted to make a point...

There are different modes of thought and intellegance. I typically find that if I am "thinking in pictures" I'll typically spell the same word in at least 3 different ways in just a few hundred words. So, is my tangerine all bumpily today, or a smoth spereoid? How may dimentions is it, and is it doing a *funky chicken*? When I think in terms of words I generally do *much* better at spelling...

There is something else I've noticed... This forum has no spell checker I've been able to find. So I bid you eraticalicly Websteronian yours,

EBo --

My my, if it isn't God's great gift to mankind that you have so gracefully extended your welcome onto this board.

You claim you've never met anyone with as much intellectual potential as you, but that you have not joined societies such Mensa because you feel they have esteem issues. If an esteem issue is dominant in those societies, let me assure you that you are well-suited.

To say that no one is as smart as "ye who bears so eloquent a name as William James" sounds to me like someone who is ego-centered and immature. I don't care if you write with the genius of Alexander Pope or John Donne, you still have a lot of growing up to do.

Medical books are written in English, and usually with correct grammar. Yet, I've seen doctors who speak poor English. Math books have, to some extent, English in them, and those that do have correct grammar as well. Yet I've seen many Engineers, Scientists, and Mathematicians who are educated in the United States and Canada (I refer to predominantly English-speaking provinces) that cannot speak English very well.

Speaking English is a skill, and as such takes practice to perform well. Being a proficient photoreader does not mean that photoreading novels will change your speech.

You are trying to find flaws in a system I don't think you fully understand, and in your path to do so you have insulted someone.

So kudos to the a**hole with the high IQ. You have a nice big chip in your shoulder. I hope you realize someday that the reason you don't have friends that are smarter than you is because you probably don't make many friends.

Cinseerilly URS,
Ramon, IQ of 161, who just doesn't like to hang around people like you because he's smart enough to know a jackass when he sees one.

[This message has been edited by razordu30 (edited September 28, 2001).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sidis:
ckerins: Though I have yet to encounter anyone that I would be willing to say has more intellectual potential than me (keyword: potential; raw 'talent'), I'll reluctantly acknowledge your point of view and refrain from attacking any specific members of the board.

Since you mentioned High IQ societies, I'll take this opportunity to say that I've made it a point to avoid them at all costs, though I've scored high enough to qualify very easily for each and every one of them(except the Giga Society - if you can call P.Cooijmans' little club a 'society'). Besides the obvious facts that IQ scores are easy to improve, which negates their value, and that they only test one specific mode of thought (there are an infinite number of them; none more valuable than any others), the people who choose to JOIN these clubs, I find, are individuals who have self-esteem issues and seek out the companionship of like minded (close-minded!) people in order to comfort themselves. Understandable, but irritating nonetheless. That's a generalization and those tend to get me in trouble, so I'll save myself by saying that there ARE a rare few that can't be placed under the label of 'pseudo-intellectual'.

Anywho - I'm not picking apart grammar so it seems as though I win the argument, even though I'm not presenting anything substantial. I'm stating the simple fact (hehe - I've already layed down my hand because I've hinted that I believe in multiple truths, illuminating to all that I'm arguing for the sake of arguing, but I'll continue to do so, anyway!) that if you consume vast amounts of information, you WILL 'copy' the form in which it is presented to you and replicate it when it comes time for you to present your ideas to others. There's just no real way around it..

Lots of people on this board are smart - no doubt. At the same time, though, lots of people (usually the most adament supporters of the system) seem to be playing with a little less than a full deck, if you know what I mean.

Just looking for verification that the techniques work. I'm not devoting my time to something that doesn't work - too lazy.

---

To Sidis,

This is rather an interesting post!

"...I've scored high enough..."

"Scored" is a verb and "high" is an adjective. Didn't anyone ever tell you that you can't use an adjective to qualify a verb? You must use an adverb, so if you were as literate as you claim to be, your text should read, "...I've scored highly enough...". You obviously don't know the difference. What an embarrassing mistake!

"close-minded"?

Well, this seems to be a word of your own invention, probably intended as an antonym of the expression "open-minded". What you don't seem to realise is that "open" can be used as a past participle. For example, you can say, "The door is open", but you would say, "The door is closed", and not, "The door is close". Your phrase uses "close" with the meaning of, "near to" whereas I suspect that your intended meaning was something else. Never mind! Let's not split too many hairs!

"Anywho"

If you are going to quote somebody you really need to use inverted commas.

"layed"???

That's an interesting one, isn't it? Maybe you mean "laid". That is the past participle of the verb "to lay". It's not looking good so far, is it?

"adament"???

Surely you mean "adamant", don't you? Perhaps you are the one who needs to use "the ol' spell checker", as you put it!

I'm not going to pull your text apart at the levels of style, cohesion and coherence. I would, however, suggest that you think twice before you make snide remarks about someone else's use of English, especially as your own knowledge of fundamental grammar and spelling leaves so much to be desired!

[This message has been edited by GRAMMARIAN (edited September 29, 2001).]

Attention Sidis, you have been owned.

-Quasi

Grammarian: Tell me, how much time did you spend parsing my posts? Judging by the fact that you actually expended the effort to edit your post, I'd say more than I spent posting. That fact aside, I apologize for not proofreading what I wrote; I know how an adjective qualifying a verb can really distort the meaning of a sentence!

Note: In case it escaped you, 'close-minded' IS a word of my own invention, and, if read in context, you'll see the double (triple, if you're perceptive) meaning it can take on. Both adament and layed were honest mistakes due to the celerity with which I type.

razordu30: I may come across as arrogant, but, I assure you, it has more to do with my misanthropy and resentment than a profound belief in my abilities.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sidis:
Grammarian: Tell me, how much time did you spend parsing my posts? Judging by the fact that you actually expended the effort to edit your post, I'd say more than I spent posting. That fact aside, I apologize for not proofreading what I wrote; I know how an adjective qualifying a verb can really distort the meaning of a sentence!

Note: In case it escaped you, 'close-minded' IS a word of my own invention, and, if read in context, you'll see the double (triple, if you're perceptive) meaning it can take on. Both adament and layed were honest mistakes due to the celerity with which I type.

razordu30: I may come across as arrogant, but, I assure you, it has more to do with my misanthropy and resentment than a profound belief in my abilities.

---

sidis--
You miss the point Grammarian was trying to make. If you are more intellegent than the rest of us, you should not be making mistakes. But, this is my thought, you have proven you aren't an intellectual, just arrogant.

[This message has been edited by jonah (edited September 29, 2001).]

Sidis: Because used to be very misanthropic and resentful to many things, mostly religion, I reread your post and read it in that context. While I still think the attack on Margaret or the accusations behind it were uncalled for, I will give you the benefit of the doubt in reference to your arrogance.

-Ramon
Former Misanthrope

I agree with jonah!

It seems to me that what GRAMMARIAN is saying is that you have no right to make comments about Margaret's English when yours is so flawed, and he or she does have a very good point! I think that GRAMMARIAN's method of treating you the way you treated Margaret was a stroke of genius. Sorry if the truth hurts!

Well said GRAMMARIAN!

This is quite an amusing thread!

Sidis, it looks like, when you started insulting people, you threw down the gauntlet (you probably prefer to say "layed" it down), but then you ended up getting stomped!

"If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen!"

On a useful note, you may have heard that making mistakes is part of learning so maybe you should learn from yours!

"Grammarian: Tell me, how much time did you spend parsing my posts? Judging by the fact that you actually expended the effort to edit your post, I'd say more than I spent posting. That fact aside, I apologize for not proofreading what I wrote; I know how an adjective qualifying a verb can really distort the meaning of a sentence!"

How long did you spend with your post making sure that there were no spelling errors in it? You still don't know when to use inverted commas, do you? Incidentally, I don't know how you managed to conclude that I examined more that one of your posts, as I extracted all of your mistakes from just one of them! I'm surprised that your razor-sharp intelligence didn't pick up on that! You're wrong again!

Despite the time you must have taken to write a reply to my post, you didn't realise that "to post" is a transitive verb (that means it requires a direct object)! I won't comment on the stylistic errors in that clause alone!

"Note: In case it escaped you, 'close-minded' IS a word of my own invention, and, if read in context, you'll see the double (triple, if you're perceptive) meaning it can take on. Both adament and layed were honest mistakes due to the celerity with which I type."

If you read my post again, you will see that it did not escape me. It is interesting that, as you mention perception here, you were not perceptive enough to see that!

It does not matter how long I took to write my post, or whether I chose to make an addition to it, the fact remains that you were wrong!

People tend to write the way they speak and think, therefore I think it highly unlikely that your mistake with the adjective was a mere typographical error. Furthermore, if you think that anyone is going to believe that writing "layed" instead of "laid" was also such and error, then I think you are mistaken there too! If living that lie makes you feel any better in dealing with the indequacies that you project onto others, then be my guest!

Do you ever get the feeling that you are not welcome on the forum? You may find that if you treat people with a little more respect instead of behaving like an obnoxious adolescent, you are more likely to get help and ideas from them. I get the feeling, however, that you think that you are superior to everybody else. If you were really intelliegent and at ease with yourself, then you wouldn't need your arrogance to see you through the day!

From your reply to my first post, it would seem that you missed the point entirely! So much for the high intelligence of which you boast so freely! You thought you were being so clever but ended up falling flat on your face! Nobody likes a smartarse, but everybody likes to see one get his, or her, comeuppance!

Goodbye!