Anybody know where I can find more info about NLP?

Commonsense, I'm looking your direction.

-Ramon http://razor.ramon.com

PS - I know of neurosemantics.com, but some of that stuff I think is a little advanced...they mention words like ecological in a way I've never seen used before, and they pressupose you know a lot of stuff...beyond that, it had a lot of cool articles.

I'm a dork.

I figured, "Ah, no one's up now anyway, I might as well go to google and type in 'NLP beginner'".

Lots of results.

So I guess what I should ask is, "Does anyone know of any NLP info that is hard to find on the web?" Or better yet, of all the sites on the web, which did you find most helpful in your quest to learn about NLP?

Also, Tony Robbins: poseur for the NLP wannabes, or hardcore rep of an NLP nation?

Does he rock the NLP mic, or just slobber on it?

-Ramon http://razor.ramon.com ("Strange things happen at 3:00am and you're procrastinating your paper.")

Also, I have no idea what this means (taken from an older post):

For NLPers - Ve->Ai->Ad->Ki

-Ramon http://razor.ramon.com

I'd like to learn more about NLP too.

Those letters I think have to do with 'sensory modalities' ("Natural Brilliance" p.141). If I remember correctly, I think Brian used them to explain some of his experiences. Not sure anymore whether they had to do with NB or kundalini. Or both?

I hope you got some sleep, Ramon.

[This message has been edited by Hel (edited April 15, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Hel (edited April 15, 2002).]

Sleep? Huh. Only tired people, sleep!

Also, "Natural Brilliance"? THE BOOK I DIDN'T ACTIVATE IN THE PR SYSTEM IS ABOUT NLP? YOU'RE KIDDING ME.

I'm gonna feel really really stupid in a minute.

-Ramon http://razor.ramon.com ("Opening my PRing kit to look through Natural Brilliance")

Just read Natural Brilliance.

I apologize to Scheele for having skipped out on it before.

I think having read it may actually save me.

I'll let you guys know.

-Ramon http://razor.ramon.com

These sites are reccommended by MikeB from previous posts: http://www.nlpco.com/ & http://www.nlpuniversitypress.com. I also recall Paul giving a site, but I can't seem to locate it... Sorry.

Razordu30,

You might want to check the book Silva Mind Mastery for the 90's by Dr Tag Powell and Dr Judith Powell. It incorporates the NLP and the 3 to 1 method that Paul has on his tapes and PhotoReading course. It also explains ve, vi etc and how you can use NLP techniques along with mind control.

Alex

http://www.learningstrategies.com/forum/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000124.html

Here's where Brian raved about NB and talked about his kundalini experience. Also the stuff on Ai Ki etc. You've probably read it before; but have another look now that you've read NB.

Helena

Razor,
V = visual, A = auditory, K = Kinesthetic, O = Olfactory, & G = Gustatory (sp?)

Thanks dc21!

I was curious about the same thing as Razor.

While one the subject of NLP, what basic books on NLP would you recommend? As with anything else, there are good and mediocre authors. I just want a basic understanding of the principals as well as some practical application.

Thanks again,

--BReeves

CommonSense kept referring to NLP volume 1. Could you please give us some more specific information so that we can identify the book?

Thanks

Check out the News Groups too. There are several NLP related groups that practitionars hangout and share experiences, techniques etc. Ther probably are groups on yahoo as well.

There are hundreds of websites out there on NLP and many resources, too many to mention.

When you do a search in google or for use groups do a combo search for NLP and Hypnotherapy. Many NLP practitionars are also Hypnotherapists, I did a search on Hypnotherapist and got more additional NLP resources that didn't come up before on earlier searches.

You may also want to search out groups or individuals in your area that you can get to gether with. They can help you incorporate and learn faster than on your own from a book.

Look for Master NLP practitioners for this as they have more experience and training than lesser skilled individuals.

Other searches that also will give you better results would be for bandler and/or tad james.

Check out the links on the websites as this will be the best referal and give you lots of good resources too.

Hope this helped

Tony Robbins is absolutely fabulous! I've begun listening to his program "Personal Power II" and I must say that it is by far the best self improvement program I've ever listened to. Highly recommended!

John

Hey Folks!

Sorry it took me so long to respond. I've been in court all day.

Now, let me first say that I am a Master Practitioner of NLP. I would be more than happy to answer any questions you might have about NLP.

I've been studying it for 5 years and have a wealth of info to share. Every bit of it is applicable to the PWMS. And I can tell you what's important to know, and what's not important to know.

So here goes:

>>razordu30
Anybody know where I can find more info about NLP?
Commonsense, I'm looking your direction

>>Also, Tony Robbins: poseur for the NLP wannabes, or hardcore rep of an NLP nation?

**The question is where to find the highest quality explanation. I go to http://www.nlpu.com/ency/index.html

**As to Tony- I like Tony. Good guy. Good integrity. Represents the self-help application accessible to the general public. Studied with the Co-founders. Just doesn't get technical. Any of his books are a fun read. Nothing bad to say - Just not the "academic" some of the other authors are.

>>Also, I have no idea what this means (taken from an older post):
For NLPers - Ve->Ai->Ad->Ki

This is my strategy for knowing that I understand something. I see it (Visual-external) then I say it to myself (Auditory - internal) then I check to compare it to what I already know (Auditory - digital) then I get a feeling inside for knowing (Kinesthetic - internal).

>>BReeves
While one the subject of NLP, what basic books on NLP would you recommend? As with anything else, there are good and mediocre authors. I just want a basic understanding of the principals as well as some practical application.

"Tony Robbins - Unlimited Power": Goes through the modeling process, rapport, submodalities, etc..

"Richard Bandler - Using Your Brain for a Change": Goes more over submodalities. A fun read.

"Steve and Connirae Andreas - Heart of the Mind": Gives a live demonstration of playing around with rep systems or modalities, submodalities, values and metaprograms. In my opinion, Steve and Connirae are some of the best.

Gosh, there are so many more books.

>>Moises
CommonSense kept referring to NLP volume 1. Could you please give us some more specific information so that we can identify the book?
Thanks

Sure. The title of the book is, "NLP: Volume One" by Richard Bandler, John Grinder, Judith Delozier and Robert Dilts

I believe you can still buy it used although I think it is out of print. Try NLPU.COM to buy it.

Throw me some more questions.

Go here and read the section on representational systems. It will explain. Or just ask - I'll explain it if it gets to technical. http://webspace.flypaper.com/~1457/html3/R47.html

Or strategies http://webspace.flypaper.com/~1457/html3/StSy19.html

Good luck, and...
CommonSense

Well after Commonsense's post what can I say.

I first heard of NLP techniques from a set of tapes by Jack Canfield on Self Esteem and Peak Performance. I don't think he ever use NLP as a title, but that's one of the techniques he describes.

About 10 years later I got the Personal Power tapes, for $5 at a church book sale. I had thought of buying the book about 10 years earlier, but a friend said it taught you how to manipulate people so I stayed away. It's true that you can use the knowledge to manipulate people but most knowledge can be used that way.

Anthony Robbins does talk about NLP, and a little more with his Modelling technique. There are lots and lots of information and tips, that are not valuable to me, just as in the PR course and exercises. We each need a little something different to get us to the common goal, and so the authors put everything they think is important into the matterial. For me there was one idea in the exercises on personal goal setting that was absolutely essential. You won't need it but I'll share it anyways. The idea was that your goals (dreams, desires) must be in harmony with your personal values. If they are not, then a part of you will stop you from achieving your goals.

The most important thing when travelling down the road to success is getting pass the roadblocks, and being able to identify them is key to getting pass them.

*Kicks himself in the butt* Now I have to go and practice PR.

[This message has been edited by Iam2 (edited April 16, 2002).]

Not to blast anything posted here but I didn't even understand the first thing about NLP (even after going to Mastery University, which was a complete waste) until I got the Illusion Conclusion Course by Jerry Stocking- www.jerrystocking.com and coincidentally I'm selling mine on ebay because I'm done with it.

Using nlp to "GET" something is pretty much useless but using it to learn about yourself and how you think so you can start to strip those useless thoughts away, it's pretty good for that. What Tony Robbins does is "self-get" not "self help." If you really wanted to help yourself you would throw out all the useless junk in your life and enjoy the space created, not clutter your mind with more garbage that takes up more room and creates more pressure than was there in the first place. The best thing about NLP is the "Patterns" thingy. All the other stuff is for GETTING stuff but you all know already that to get PR to work you have to strip away the 90% of the book that you don't want. Do that with life too. Kick the morons out of your life, and you have a pretty good life without having to do anything, don't you?

"Thinking Clearly" by Jerry Stocking is a pretty cool book as is his Illusions course. I've getting into his advanced stuff now in the time I have when I'm not throwing another parasite out of my life. As you can tell, I've almost thrown the internet out too but I figure a day a week won't kill me.

Sorry you had a bad experience with Tony's stuff. I've only read his books and used his PPII. I have found them both to be good tools for pushing yourself out of "the box".

As far as NLP, Mastery University may be a waste of money and time. I have no idea. If it didn't work for you than it didn't work for you. I believe it is suffice to say, Mastery University in no way is representative of all of NLP, its trainers, or the many thousands that find it worthwhile for making their lives better and better understanding how to acquire or refine their own skills.

Understanding the patterns of NLP is not NLP. NLP is an attitude of curiosity that leaves a "trail of techniques" and patterns. NLP is, at its core, a (not the only) way of modelling the skills of others. Eliciting the skills from someone else is about becoming excellent at anything you do in life.

Anyway, I was a little offended by your post. But, I probably shouldn't be. I don't defend the choices I make - I'm just happy that I learn from my mistakes.

Good luck in your ability to cut out parasites in your life. I wish you well in your journey.

Good luck, and...
CommonSense

quote:

---

Originally posted by LordOfEarth:
Not to blast anything posted here but I didn't even understand the first thing about NLP (even after going to Mastery University, which was a complete waste) until I got the Illusion Conclusion Course by Jerry Stocking- www.jerrystocking.com and coincidentally I'm selling mine on ebay because I'm done with it.

Using nlp to "GET" something is pretty much useless but using it to learn about yourself and how you think so you can start to strip those useless thoughts away, it's pretty good for that. What Tony Robbins does is "self-get" not "self help." If you really wanted to help yourself you would throw out all the useless junk in your life and enjoy the space created, not clutter your mind with more garbage that takes up more room and creates more pressure than was there in the first place. The best thing about NLP is the "Patterns" thingy. All the other stuff is for GETTING stuff but you all know already that to get PR to work you have to strip away the 90% of the book that you don't want. Do that with life too. Kick the morons out of your life, and you have a pretty good life without having to do anything, don't you?

"Thinking Clearly" by Jerry Stocking is a pretty cool book as is his Illusions course. I've getting into his advanced stuff now in the time I have when I'm not throwing another parasite out of my life. As you can tell, I've almost thrown the internet out too but I figure a day a week won't kill me.

---

You see, we both ran our patterns. I couldn't help but run the "poor me" one and you ran the "hey, it works" one. It's just like clockwork.

I've bought (at one time or another) every NLP product sold by Nightingale/Conant in addition to Tony and Jerry Stocking so if that isn't "all there is" then I've been royally scammed or they keep changing and adding stuff to keep the sales of NLP stuff going.

I've been doing NLP since 1993 and honestly if Paul's sales pitch about PR didn't include the "NLP" thing, I would have looked past it. I was interested in seeing how it could be used in reading.

Tony basically combined NLP with public speaking the way Jim Rohn did it. My problem with Tony is just that his seminars are EXACTLY like his books, no more but alot less. After going I could have kicked myself because it's basically a warm bath that wears off. Not a "bad" experience but very eye opening. There's more in "Unlimited Power" than his seminars so that's good news for anyone that hasn't been to one of them because now they don't have to go.

If you need to force yourself to do something (like sales or martial arts- Tony uses those examples) then isn't that a clue that you really should do something else? Something that you don't have to drive yourself to do? I know people that are striving to become musicians and they don't even look as if they like it anymore but they won't give it up and find something they REALLY like. According to Tony and every other self help guru- I'm an idiot that will never succeed but to myself, I've figured it out.

I think most people that get into NLP use it accidentally to separate themselves from everyone else and they try to 'use' it on everyone else instead of themselves. And when we do use it on ourselves we're trying to make a change- lose weight, work more, be nicer, quit smoking or whatever. As I said, I pretty much filed NLP into the "really coold but don't do much" drawer of my mind until someone showed me how to use it to tear your personality (your identity) apart until there's nothing there. As you can see by the fact that I haven't transcended the need to argue on the internet- it's an ongoing process. Of course, some people still say that you can walk across coals and it's done for you, it isn't.

NLP is like anything else. As a whole, it's a huge science. You can't just cover it in a weekend or even a month. But it's also like a martial art. There are moves you learn that you would never do in reality because there are better choices you can make. The situation calls for what's appropriate to use and in NLP what's most appropriate most of the time are just a few things that actually do something. It's certainly nothing to get identified with. God, could you imagine what PR would be like if Paul made NLP the focus of the course? It would suck because we'd all be doing stuff for the sake of following a certain theory spouted by someone long ago instead of doing what worked to get a result. But he used it the way it worked and used ONLY what worked and that's combined with another purpose. I thought it was cool what Paul did with NLP and his PR course. I think that he should have gone furthure with the NLP and PR instead of doing Genius Code the way he did but oh well, we could always use NLP as we image stream.

Also, I didn't mean to offend you but it kinda goes with the territory of saying something mean about NLP. I used it to sell Life Insurance and it didn't work. If I were to use it to sell cookies it would work, or would it be the fact that people WANT cookies? You see, if you just sell something people want, you don't have to really do much of anything, much less use NLP on them. Used on yourself, it's very interesting. It's kind of funny though, even at that you can only analyze thoughts when you're "awake" to them in the first place. So you have to be awake to catch them and break down the A,V,K of them. If you're not awake you miss it and just go along with them but if you're awake to them and don't break them down the result is the same if you're awake and do break them down, so, what't he NLP for other than it's something interesting that gets us interested in doing other stuff?

[This message has been edited by LordOfEarth (edited April 17, 2002).]

Thoughtful response. I understand.

Thanks Lord of Earth.

quote:

---

Originally posted by LordOfEarth:
You see, we both ran our patterns. I couldn't help but run the "poor me" one and you ran the "hey, it works" one. It's just like clockwork.

I've bought (at one time or another) every NLP product sold by Nightingale/Conant in addition to Tony and Jerry Stocking so if that isn't "all there is" then I've been royally scammed or they keep changing and adding stuff to keep the sales of NLP stuff going.

I've been doing NLP since 1993 and honestly if Paul's sales pitch about PR didn't include the "NLP" thing, I would have looked past it. I was interested in seeing how it could be used in reading.

Tony basically combined NLP with public speaking the way Jim Rohn did it. My problem with Tony is just that his seminars are EXACTLY like his books, no more but alot less. After going I could have kicked myself because it's basically a warm bath that wears off. Not a "bad" experience but very eye opening. There's more in "Unlimited Power" than his seminars so that's good news for anyone that hasn't been to one of them because now they don't have to go.

If you need to force yourself to do something (like sales or martial arts- Tony uses those examples) then isn't that a clue that you really should do something else? Something that you don't have to drive yourself to do? I know people that are striving to become musicians and they don't even look as if they like it anymore but they won't give it up and find something they REALLY like. According to Tony and every other self help guru- I'm an idiot that will never succeed but to myself, I've figured it out.

I think most people that get into NLP use it accidentally to separate themselves from everyone else and they try to 'use' it on everyone else instead of themselves. And when we do use it on ourselves we're trying to make a change- lose weight, work more, be nicer, quit smoking or whatever. As I said, I pretty much filed NLP into the "really coold but don't do much" drawer of my mind until someone showed me how to use it to tear your personality (your identity) apart until there's nothing there. As you can see by the fact that I haven't transcended the need to argue on the internet- it's an ongoing process. Of course, some people still say that you can walk across coals and it's done for you, it isn't.

NLP is like anything else. As a whole, it's a huge science. You can't just cover it in a weekend or even a month. But it's also like a martial art. There are moves you learn that you would never do in reality because there are better choices you can make. The situation calls for what's appropriate to use and in NLP what's most appropriate most of the time are just a few things that actually do something. It's certainly nothing to get identified with. God, could you imagine what PR would be like if Paul made NLP the focus of the course? It would suck because we'd all be doing stuff for the sake of following a certain theory spouted by someone long ago instead of doing what worked to get a result. But he used it the way it worked and used ONLY what worked and that's combined with another purpose. I thought it was cool what Paul did with NLP and his PR course. I think that he should have gone furthure with the NLP and PR instead of doing Genius Code the way he did but oh well, we could always use NLP as we image stream.

Also, I didn't mean to offend you but it kinda goes with the territory of saying something mean about NLP. I used it to sell Life Insurance and it didn't work. If I were to use it to sell cookies it would work, or would it be the fact that people WANT cookies? You see, if you just sell something people want, you don't have to really do much of anything, much less use NLP on them. Used on yourself, it's very interesting. It's kind of funny though, even at that you can only analyze thoughts when you're "awake" to them in the first place. So you have to be awake to catch them and break down the A,V,K of them. If you're not awake you miss it and just go along with them but if you're awake to them and don't break them down the result is the same if you're awake and do break them down, so, what't he NLP for other than it's something interesting that gets us interested in doing other stuff?

[This message has been edited by LordOfEarth (edited April 17, 2002).]

---

Small comment, big quote CommonSense.

LordOfEarth, I initially was tempted to comment on your first post but didn't. I wasn't offended. I hold no real bond with PR, NLP, or Anthony Robbins. I was more disturbed by your tone, and the emotions I read into your post. The idea of cutting people, sorry parasites, out of your life. It sounds very angry.

All my reading and listening is providing me with knowledge and insights. In a post somewhere I commented on roadblocks. Not every one sees wants preventing them from having, getting, being what they want. I've see self-defeating patterns in myself, through these studies. Some I already knew, some I immediately recognized once the material exposed them, some I only felt the effects of and didn't understand until after lots of self examination and a tip or two.

I am happier and probably a little bit of a better person for my studies and efforts. I'm not sure I would be, where I am, without the help I've gotten from the matterial. That's not to say I don't discard the 80% to 90% of the matterial I don't find useful. I also don't swallow whole everything that is presented. Especially the "science" of understanding the how the brain works. Some of the matterial sounds right to me, and so it probably is right for me. Others is just the conjectures that need to be tested by the crucible of time.

As for NLP and PR, I think Paul just is using the tools he thinks are best. Which probably means, will help the most people to achieve PR.

Anyways, like very thing else, you select from what is presented.

So here's to growth. May you always face the sun.

When I was talking about "parasites" I was talking about INNER ones- useless patterns, bad moods, stupid repetitive thoughts that had me creating the same rotten results over and over.

[Kick the morons out of your life, and you have a pretty good life without having to do anything, don't you?]

I've found that to be true but it was something I would never have believed 20 years ago. There's no anger in that, believe me. I'm sure when you were young you knew people that when you hung around them you always got into trouble but you still felt that they were "friends." To say "I'm not going to hang around with you anymore" is the same thing as kicking them out of your life, that can only be positive.

I've simply noticed that "progress" isn't accumulating certain things it's getting rid of the non-useful and that does include people too. In case you've never really seen it this way, when someone calls someone else a "jerk" (or something similar) it's almost ALWAYS when that person wont let the other person USE him in one way or another.

You want to have the most fun you've ever had in your life? Do this: the next time someone says something offensive in anyway toward anyone, just walk away. The next time someone starts gossiping about anyone else and they look at you as if they think you care and want to hear it, just walk away. Do this to everyone you know and pretty soon they'll start not liking you and YOU HAVEN'T EVEN DONE NOTHING TO THEM. And the funny thing about it is, it's NLP (interupting their patterns) and simply not participating in stupidity at the same time. That's what I was talking about earlier- most of the NLP stuff is just WHAT SOMETHING ELSE WAS before it was called "NLP."

Most people's "patterns" include us going along with whatever they want no matter what it costs us in time, money or whatever. To refuse that isn't being negative. I had a friend for over 10 years until one day I just said to him "I can't sit here and drink beer anymore and ***** about life. I just can't and won't do it again." To this day he won't even talk to me. It was "all or nothing." I was either on his side and agreed with everything he thought or I'm a dick not worth the time of day. The Creed song "my own prison" is pretty freekin accurate.

All right y'all,

You've once again perked my interest in NLP. I have a copy of Rex Sikes course sitting at home waiting to be listened to.

I once worked for an employeer who practiced NLP ... he had this nack of calming people down when they were in a tizzy. Amazing stuff.

Question is, can one benefit more from taking a 'live' class as oppossed to tape format?

Commonsense, IAM2 and LordofEarth ... keep participating, I'm picking up all kinds of good information from y'all. In advance, thanks!

NLP is a form of coding experience ONLY. Nothing more - mothing less. NLP is a methodology for breaking down processes, skills, talents, etc. in order to transfer them to someone else.

NLP is NOT:
-self help
-persuasion
-influence
-seduction
-hypnosis (everything is - nothing is)
-therapy
-etc.

Those things are ways or processes to achieve outcomes. Helping yourself to do what? Persuading whom to do what? Seducing whom to do what?

NLP simply allows you to code the successful experience of someone else or even your own successful experience in order to be able to consciously repeat or adopt the process.

Paul used NLP distinctions to model expert readers. Distinctions about the uses of conscious and unconscious processing.

In the words of my Master Trainer Rex Sikes, "NLP doesn't exist." Because IT doesn't - experience does. NLP merely gives you the tools to organize the experience.

DHE or NHR is different because those deal with deep trance phenomenon. But for now, just know that NLP has no outcome by itself.

It's just communication and CommonSense!

Commonsense, would you tell us more about DHE and NHR? Grinder is no more involved in these, is he, just Bandler? And what's persuasion engineering (sounds like heavy-duty manipulation)?

Also, I want to thank you for all the help and valuable information you have given on this board already.

Hey Hel:

Follow this link for an explanation from someone who has been there.
http://www.nlp.org/reviews/nhr2000a.htm

hey I was just wondering: I've noticed that often Paul (or just now Hale on the sedona course) say something like: and whenever you're ready, if you haven't already, close (open) your eyes"
now is the "if you haven't all ready" an embedded command? i mean it sounds kind of unnecesary and then i notived that allready sounds all like "READY!"
anyone?
just a random thought