Posted By: Iam2 OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 04/25/02 01:31 AM
Okay, I'm not into MJ. However, I did buy a bottle of Ginko, or Gingko, or however you care to anglosize it.

I'm getting older, have young kids, and well I don't feel as sharp as I once was. I know that the first thing I should do is try and get 8 hours of sleep each night, which is something I did achieve when I felt sharper, but that ain't going to happen. So off to the web and then the pharmacy.

This is my first bottle, but the third time I started taking it. The first time and second time, my peripheral vision was cranked up a notch all the time. I also started have very vivid dreams. Which is very unusual for me, the guy who never remembers his dreams.

Anyways, I'm now trying to take the dosage spread out over the day instead of popping the three tablets first thing in the morning. I did notice the previous time that it takes a few days for things to start to have an affect.

So the purpose of the post is to ask the question "What is your experience and opinion on Ginko?".

Thanks in advance.





Posted By: Gino Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 04/25/02 04:31 AM
Gingko sucks,, Try piracetam and you'll see why I recommend it. The following is an article about it. If you need to do some research on it, try altavista and just type in "Piracetam"


This is an article from a well respected research team. They don't sell piracetam. If you know a little of statistics, you'll understand their findings.
Nootropics - and the healthy

Piracetam-nootropics have also shown the ability to improve learning and memory in healthy individuals not suffering from disease or severe age-related degeneration. In 1976 Dimond and Brouwers reported the results of some of a series of seven double blind trials, involving 16 second and third year college students "in excellent health and good physical and mental condition."

Subjects received either 4.8 grams a day Piracetam or placebo for 14 days. In three different measures of verbal learning and memory, the results showed a highly significant difference in favor of the Piracetam students over the controls, with confidence levels of P=.01, P=.02 and P=.01. The authors stated "the fact is that Piracetam improves verbal learning and in this it would appear to be a substance which is.. capable of extending the intellectual functions of man.. our subjects were not senile, suffering from generalized brain disorder, confusional states, or any other pathology of the brain... It is therefore possible to extend the power which [individuals gifted with high intelligence and good memory] possess to still higher levels despite the fact that the range of their achievement is a high."

Giurgea and Salama report the confirmation of Dimond/ Brouwer's work by Wedl and Suchenwirth in 1977. Wedl found significant improvement in mental performance in a group of 17 healthy young volunteers given 3.2 grams per day Piracetam for five days.

Mindus and colleagues (1976) reported the results of a double blind crossover trial with 18 healthy middle aged people (median age 56), with no evidence of somatic or mental disease, based on medical records and administration of several intelligence tests (group mean IQ; 120 plus or minus 11).

Most of the subjects were in intellectually demanding jobs, but had reported a slight reduction for some years in their capacity to retain or recall information.

After four weeks of 4.8 grams per day Piracetam, Piracetam subjects were switched to placebo for four weeks, while the original placebo group then received Piracetam for four weeks.

Results of a series of paper and pencil tests, as well as computerized tests to measure perceptual motor reactions, showed a clear benefit of Piracetam over placebo.

The three different paper and pencil tests showed superior effects on performance compared to placebo, with confidence levels of P<.001, P<.001 and P<.05. In four of the six computerized tests Piracetam showed a significant effect over placebo, with confidence levels of P<.05 for three and P<.029 for the fourth.

A fifth test showed a clear trend in favor of Piracetam, with P<.10. Wilsher and co-workers (1979) related their results with 4.8 grams per day Piracetam in a double blind, crossover trial to study the benefits of Piracetam for dyslexic students.

Interestingly, the 14 healthy student controls, matched for IQ with the dyslexic subjects, demonstrated a significantly better result on a test measuring ability to memorize nonsense syllables while using Piracetam as compared to placebo.







Posted By: SDstudent Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 04/25/02 05:06 AM
Has anyone tried Brain Vitality? It is found on www.purityproducts.com

The compounds are Acetyl-L-Cartinine and Phosphatidyl Serine. They say that these compounds are essential for nerve transmission in the brain. Some people feel the difference after 20 min of taking. Personally, I haven't seen any difference in my mental alertness, clarity, or recall.





Posted By: Hel Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 04/25/02 08:07 AM
I've tried gingko. Didn't noticeany effect.
Your exams coming up soon, Gino? Anyway, good luck.





Posted By: foneguy9 Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 04/25/02 10:21 AM
Hello,
I've personally tried Ginkgo biloba and it did have many positive effects in my short term memory and long term retention of information. Now, I am using Vinpocetine along with a lower dose (1 (50) mg 24% Ginkgo capsule) per day. I am trying to find and use an alternative to Ginkgo. Mostly, because of the effect Ginkgo has on blood flow, not only to the brain, but to the rest of the body, which could cause some serious issues to your bodies ability to react properly(clotting agents not being as effective)in an emergency.
As to Gino's comments, I've also read positive feedback on Piracetam as shown in his post, however, since you must order it from outside of the US, I think this is the reason for cost being steep. I will try Piracetam eventually, but have many things on the burner now as it is, to make a proper comparison of what I am taking(cheaper) with piracetam(expensive). If it works the same for me, I'll definitely look after my wallet!
If you do a google search on either or all of these items including 'nootropics' you'll find plenty of reading material on Gingko and alternatives.

Be good to your brain and your mind will thank you!





Posted By: Gino Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 04/25/02 04:06 PM
Hel
Thanks,The CPA exam is on May 8th and 9th.

quote:
Originally posted by Hel:
I've tried gingko. Didn't noticeany effect.
Your exams coming up soon, Gino? Anyway, good luck.







Posted By: Gino Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 04/25/02 04:12 PM
Foneguy, Piracetam is not that expensive is only $17.10. This is one of the sites where they sell it: http://www.biogenesis.co.za/pi-piracetam.html







Posted By: foneguy9 Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 04/25/02 07:09 PM
Hi Gino,
Look at that!!! I was looking in the wrong places for Piracetam. I will DEFINITELY get it at the biogenesis web site!!

Very Glad You Posted!!!

Thank YOU





Posted By: Gino Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 04/25/02 09:24 PM
Let me know how it goes. Don't forget to start with a high dosage of 4800mg for the first two days. afterwards, 1600 mg will be sufficient. My piracetam arrived two weeks after I order it. I'm in Miami, florida.


quote:
Originally posted by foneguy9:
Hi Gino,
Look at that!!! I was looking in the wrong places for Piracetam. I will DEFINITELY get it at the biogenesis web site!!

Very Glad You Posted!!!

Thank YOU








Posted By: Hel Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 04/25/02 09:55 PM
Gino, is the piracetam in powder form? Do you take anything else with it? Is it helping you with your studies?

[This message has been edited by Hel (edited April 25, 2002).]





Posted By: Gino Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 04/26/02 12:26 AM
It comes in tablets 800mg each. I take it with lecithin. Piracetam opens your mind. It's like reading 10 pgs of material and constantly remembering every single pg as you are reading pg 11. I heard that short term memory is only 7 plus or minus 2, but this feels like 100 plus or minus 50. I'll give you more detail as soon as I come back from Virginia, I'm a little busy with my final review. Try it yourself and let me know how it went. This nootropic is very safe. It's been around for 40yrs. There are no contra indications. If you want to know more, I suggest that you read a book by the name Of "Smart Drugs II" The next Generation by War Dean.


quote:
Originally posted by Hel:
Gino, is the piracetam in powder form? Do you take anything else with it? Is it helping you with your studies?

[This message has been edited by Hel (edited April 25, 2002).]








Posted By: Phelix Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 04/27/02 06:48 AM
ehhh.. Ginkgo.. Total marketing overkill in North America.. have you wonder where the hell these companies get their raw materials? I doubt Ginkgo can be grown for massive massive production. And with the ridiculous amount of brands out there, you don't know what youre getting.. it coulbe snake oil.

If it works for you, I'm surprised.. Even more surprised it works that quickly!

You mentioned MJ. IMO, it's of the best if you can acquire the right types but impractical because you need cultivation knowledge.


Anyways, Ginkgo is not enough to maintain your fitness on all levels. You need to integrate proper nutrition.. Nutrition can give you the performance equal to any intelligent-enchancing synthetic drug out there. Just basics like Vitamin C, B complex, the aminos like tyrosine, cysteine, carnitien (sic).. Or eating less processed foods.. get on whole grains, raw veggies, etc..

It's easier to pop a pill then it is to eat wholistically.







Posted By: Iam2 Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 04/28/02 12:01 AM
Well I noted a little depression, and thought that I had similar reaction the last couple of tries. The stuff is in the garbage now.

As for the fitness and basic nutrients. I jog 3 to 5 times a week, 6 to 12 km at go. Once summer gets off its hinney and shows up I'll be biking 5 days a week. I've taken a multi-vitamin and a B-complex every day for 26 years. The last thing for the physical health is sleep, and I don't always get enough of that.





Posted By: Phelix Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 04/28/02 04:16 AM
Well, there is always room for improvement. Whatever you've been using may not be adequate anymore, and long-term repeated use of such supplements..... Well, you get the picture. / There are reputable companies selling good products. Probably the best way to find these companies is through alternative medicine. With some luck, you'll find a therapist that'll provide you with *just* the necessary nutrients to support and improve your overall health.

I just recently found a homeopath/herbalist who does muscle testing. This testing is rather unusual because she reads off acupressure points on my body. She was quite accurate in assessing my health problems and providing me with the necessary supplements, making my guesswork unnecessary.

Anyways, besides nutrition, you can do eye exercises to help improve and maintain the its health and function (ie: PRing). Anybody interested, just pop me an email and I'll send this information I won off Ebay.

badpoodycat@hotmail.com





Posted By: Gino Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 04/28/02 04:27 AM
If you only need vitamins and exercise to be in your top mental health, how come most athletes are not that bright? When it comes to having a great health, athletes are the top notches. I know a lot of summa cumm laudes that are over weight and smoke like crazy, but when it comes to grades, they will make your healthy individual look like he has Down syndrome. I have two friends in Harvard and my brother goes to M.I.T. They all take piracetam and don’t exercise. In other words, If you want to increase IQ, take smart drugs. They wont help you get into M.I.T, but will help you go from a B average to a B+. They are not a miracle, they will only enhanced what you already have.

UOTE]Originally posted by Phelix:
ehhh.. Ginkgo.. Total marketing overkill in North America.. have you wonder where the hell these companies get their raw materials? I doubt Ginkgo can be grown for massive massive production. And with the ridiculous amount of brands out there, you don't know what youre getting.. it coulbe snake oil.

If it works for you, I'm surprised.. Even more surprised it works that quickly!

You mentioned MJ. IMO, it's of the best if you can acquire the right types but impractical because you need cultivation knowledge.


Anyways, Ginkgo is not enough to maintain your fitness on all levels. You need to integrate proper nutrition.. Nutrition can give you the performance equal to any intelligent-enchancing synthetic drug out there. Just basics like Vitamin C, B complex, the aminos like tyrosine, cysteine, carnitien (sic).. Or eating less processed foods.. get on whole grains, raw veggies, etc..

It's easier to pop a pill then it is to eat wholistically.

[/QUOTE]







Posted By: Iam2 Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 04/29/02 05:30 AM
I think I've finished with experimenting.

As for good grade or good health... give me good health. I've spent more than my share of time at University and moving form a B to B+ is within the reach of just about everyone I've known. It's discipline and good study habits that more often than not the separte the A students form the rest. The top guys in my classes were not the brightest, but the hardest working.

Probably the same for PR. The guys getting the best results are the ones that have put the most effort into it. Nothing special about them, except that they are willing to work for what they want.

*steps off of soap box*





Posted By: Sidis Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 04/28/02 07:26 PM
Piracetam's main effect will be the augmentation of your memory. Problem solving skills and memory are inextricably connected, I'm afraid; IQ tests do not measure your ability to solve problems you've never seen before and do not indicate anyone's "natural propensity for creative thought". Rather, they measure your ability to emulate the way of viewing problems and synthesizing stimuli that's been deemed most effective in our Western culture (this is directly related to memory; those with near photographic memories often score exceptionally high on IQ despite showing little to no aptitude for original thought or inferential comprehension). Generally speaking, the geniuses are those that redefine the boundaries of our 'structure of thought'; creativity and our ability to commit to memory established intellectual patterns may be related, but they are not the same or even mutually inclusive.

If you're looking for the 'quick route' to becoming a mental giant, you're going to be disappointed by any of these 'miracle drugs'.

As another note, I've known a few people who have taken Piracetam, and while they swore by it, I noticed no change; the lucidity of their writing remained constant and their social prowess was unchanged. Mood stabilization was observed, but that is all.

Consider: if these were actually as effective as has been reported, would they not be looked upon more favorably? Without a doubt. The fact of the matter is that the majority of upper level graduates (and faculty members) at major universities (Harvard, MIT, Brown, etc.) haven't even heard of Piracetam let alone used it consistently. You're going to have a hard time convincing me that any lobby would take up the cause of "preventing the release of smart drugs", but you'd have no trouble swaying my opinion to the side of "they flat out don't work. The research was done by over zealous scientists and is, unfortunately, drastically flawed".

That being said, I'm going to give them a chance. Lecithin, Choline, and Piracetam are all being ordered today. The real test for me is DO I notice a difference? We shall see.

-sidis








Posted By: Gino Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 04/28/02 11:36 PM
[/QUOTE]

The research was done by over zealous scientists and is, unfortunately, drastically flawed".

If you are 100% that Piracetam doesn't work, how comw you are wasting money in ordering it?





Posted By: tylerhasselhoff Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 04/29/02 02:47 AM
Try x-cellR8. It's the only energy supplement that has FDA approval. No jitters either. That means it is clinically proven to work in a non-b.s. clinical study. www.xcellr8.com

Dr. Ellis happens to be a pretty cool guy, in addition to being one of the world's leading experts on metabolism and nutrition.





Posted By: Gino Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 04/30/02 12:37 AM
We are not talking about increasing physical energy here. Mental energy and physical energy are not the same. It'll take me some time to explain to you the difference between them, perhaps I'll explain it some other day.


quote:
Originally posted by tylerhasselhoff:
Try x-cellR8. It's the only energy supplement that has FDA approval. No jitters either. That means it is clinically proven to work in a non-b.s. clinical study. www.xcellr8.com

Dr. Ellis happens to be a pretty cool guy, in addition to being one of the world's leading experts on metabolism and nutrition.








Posted By: Gino Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 04/30/02 12:45 AM
Sidis

Do you think that England is goung to win the world cup?






Posted By: Lonnie46 Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 05/02/02 07:51 PM
Does anybody know anything about a supplement called Indium? It is suppose to be a trace mineral that has fallen off the food chain. In other words, you cannot find it in most foods. But it is beginning to be hyped about as a sort of cure for what ailes you.
Any information on this product that you could get me would be appreciated.





Posted By: Gino Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 05/03/02 05:12 AM

Is it a cognitive enhancer?


quote:
Originally posted by Lonnie46:
Does anybody know anything about a supplement called Indium? It is suppose to be a trace mineral that has fallen off the food chain. In other words, you cannot find it in most foods. But it is beginning to be hyped about as a sort of cure for what ailes you.
Any information on this product that you could get me would be appreciated.







Posted By: Lonnie46 Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 05/03/02 11:49 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Gino:

Is it a cognitive enhancer?



Hmmmm. No. I don't think so. It's suppose to be a trace mineral that cannot be found in foods, but has recently been developed as a water soluble supplement.








Posted By: Iam2 Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 05/03/02 12:17 PM
Yeah, it's rare. Probably was never really in the food system. Well no more than gold or silver. Not a good idea to ingest heavy metals. They have a higher cross-section and so interact with the background radiation more than most of the material in you body. The interaction creates free radicals which is was actually do the molecular damage in your body. Radiation damage is an indirect thing.

As a caveat it's more than 15 years since I've studied this stuff, but I think I remember a few of the basic.

It's also used in the electronics industry for some IR detectors (InGaAs detectors).





Posted By: Lonnie46 Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 05/03/02 01:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Iam2:
Yeah, it's rare. Probably was never really in the food system. Well no more than gold or silver. Not a good idea to ingest heavy metals. They have a higher cross-section and so interact with the background radiation more than most of the material in you body. The interaction creates free radicals which is was actually do the molecular damage in your body. Radiation damage is an indirect thing.

As a caveat it's more than 15 years since I've studied this stuff, but I think I remember a few of the basic.

It's also used in the electronics industry for some IR detectors (InGaAs detectors).



Here's a website that might help:
http://www.vital-nutrients.com/indium.htm

You are right about this not being in the food chain. Maybe it was at one time. But I'll let the website speak for itself. Really I was hoping that maybe somebody had had some personal experience with this supplement.








Posted By: Lonnie46 Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 05/03/02 03:25 PM
Here's another website on Indium:
http://www.indium-xl.com/index.htm







Posted By: Lonnie46 Re: OT: Ginko: have you tried it? - 05/03/02 06:36 PM
Here's another supplement that might be of interest:
http://www.vital-nutrients.com/e3live.htm

If anybody has ever tried E3 Live Algae, please give me some feedback. Thanks.







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