Throwing in the towel - Forum for PhotoReading, Paraliminals, Spring Forest Qigong, and your quest for improvement

In the end I have to resort to Rapid Reading anyway in order to understand anything. My fastest PR speed of all time is 1500 wpm which isn't even a warm up for most speedreaders. Superreading and Dipping is essentially useless and leads to gathering tons of partial ideas or a basic summary at best. Nothing falls into place till I Rapid Read.

About 6 months ago someone here told me to fine tune my purposes and mind probe questions, trigger words and mind maps. That doubled the time i spent reading and cut my wpm in half. When I knocked all that stuff off and focused on increasing my rapid reading speed I actually started getting somewhere in my reading, but I wasn't doing the Photoreading, just speed reading.

I've been trying to get this to work for almost 2 years. I can recite the PR book by heart practically so please don't ask me how many "30 minute activation sessions" I used or how many "branches on my mind maps" I added during each activation session. I have no clue what's being said unless I read every word in order from start to finish.

Am I the only one here like that? I just have to read all the words or I'm lost.

"Superreading and Dipping is essentially useless and leads to gathering tons of partial ideas or a basic summary at best. Nothing falls into place till I Rapid Read."

A couple questions:
1) What kind of texts are you reading? For some texts, rapid reading is indeed the best solution, although if you get creative you can still substitute with SR+D.
2) How many passes are you doing with SR+D? If you feel you still don't have the gist of the text, you simply need more passes. This may seem slow at first, but with practice (after doing the PRing step, more on that later) your other than conscious mind and conscious mind will work together better, picking out more relevant and essential parts of the text.
3) How relaxed are you while PRing? You sound a little stressed the system isn't working, which is understandable, but if you bring that stress into the PR step, your other than conscious mind will be filling with, "This can't work, this doesn't work, I've been trying forever and can't get this to work" instead of filling with the material you're trying to absorb at a relaxed pace.

I hope you stick with it. Once you get it to work there's no going back. =)

-Ramon http://razor.ramon.com

Even if you only want to rapid read, forgetting about mind mapping, trigger words... Keep the statement of purpose, have a purpose for reading, ask yourself why you want to read the book, then still do the photoreading part. You'll probably find that rapid reading goes faster.

Also consider doing it in layers... really superread the whole book 2 or 3 times. If only to make what you read stick in the long term memory better. If you are reading for study this is what you'll want.

The idea of photoreading is to enable you to cover more ground for study. It isn't only reading speed that you want to improve it study skills. For many courses of study most people have to reread textbooks and manual repeatedly to understand them. If you're using regular reading methods you naturally take 3 times longer than a photoreader. What most people overlook is the time spent making notes, practicing the exercises and revision also take time, when you use photoreading related skills you also spend less time on these.

Learning isn't just reading the text it's gaining an understanding of what it's about and how you can use the information. Most people cannot do that just by reading the book once and without realising it they often reread the book 2 or 3 times. Once through then while writing out their assignments they often open the book again... taking ages to find the right page again... missing out on one of the key reason for photoreading the book.

Alex

Mark,

Call me for a free PhotoReading coaching session when you have 10-15 minutes to spare. 800-735-8273. Ext.211. We'll figure out how to get the system working for you. Have your little blue PhotoReading book handy.

When one does the 5 steps correctly, you'll immediately be able to get through and learn, comprehend, and retain all types of printed material 3 times faster than the time you'd have to spend with regular reading, and re-reading and re-reading.

Dana

I appreciate the assistance and yes I've done the "5 steps" over and over again on over 500 books now and yes I do uncover the "10% relevant information" and all that but when I go back and rapid read the whole text I gather all the information just as quickly in one pass as I can do in multiple passes without missing any small details that may be the missing link I need in order to understant the information. I can Sr and dip and nail the "10% relevant information" in a few minutes without doing anything else, who can't? If a book has a table of contents and/or a glossary you've got the "10%" at your finger tips. I can actually get the "10%" in less than 15 minutes per 100 pages but I want the other 90% too. For that I need to just read fast.

My problem is I want 100% and without it I don't feel as if I know the information well enough. I was just wondering if there was anyone else like me who's just flat out picky about how we read.

Mark,
I enjoy reading every word of some books. I even enjoy reading some sentences over and over again. It's like a thirst.

But, books that i am studying. Nope. I want the 20% (it's not 10%--the rule is 20% of the material covers 80% of the meaning) quickly so that i can make decisions about where i'm going next.

So, make a decision: If you want 100% of the info, then read every word. Remembering 100% of the material is another matter though. Do you actually recall right now, 100% of the material of the books you have read?

If, however, you want to gleen 20% of the material that carries 80% of the meaning, then PhR..activate...etc.

Call Dana it would do you some good to hear what he has to offer.

Anyone who has done 500 books and still doesn't get it has in fact gotten it and doesn't know it You present a very interesting scenerio to those of us who like a challenges.

MarkP4,

It seems you are doing all the steps correctly, except probably the most important one: what are your objectives and goals for reading the material.

You need to know what you want out of the material to activate the information you have photoread, and get what you want.

Is it impossible to believe that rapid reading 1 time through could beat Photoreadign and activating using multiple passes?

Is it hard to believe that getting "10%" out of a book just doesn't cut it?

I just don't see the point of putting the cart before the horse. I just want to know if there are some people here that have to resort to rapid reading pretty much every time they try to photoread something. From the sounds of it there isn't anyone here not unhappy with getting 10% so I guess I'm the freak.

Do I have 100% retention of everything I rapid read? Of course not but I sure can talk your ear off about what's in the book. After Photoreading I could probably meditate on it then answer t/f or multiple choice questions in the neighborhood of 70%. Which is better?

I can skitter a book and dig out 10% real quick. If that's all that I want. Old School Speedreading used to call that "scanning" or 'surveying."

Mark,

I'm sorry you're having a hard time with it. I asked before what kind of texts you are reading, which is important.

For example, many of the philosophy texts I read makes it heard to SR+D, because it's a dense text; logic papers are almost anti-PR, because there really isn't that much irrelevant text to begin with - logicians try to stay succinct as possible.

There are still exceptions like Descartes, where half the text is simply giving examples or reiterating previous points; here SR+D works well.

I find that the easiest books to SR+Dip are "Idiot's Guide to" books. I really like the series of books since they try to explain things in easier terms, but if you SR+Dip it, you can get done if much less time. I read a book in a similar format using SR+D and took in all the information from start to finish in less than 45 minutes; as a 200+ page book, it's not too bad.

"Do I have 100% retention of everything I rapid read? Of course not but I sure can talk your ear off about what's in the book. After Photoreading I could probably meditate on it then answer t/f or multiple choice questions in the neighborhood of 70%. Which is better?"

Mark, try a system that my friend and I devised. You do one pass of PRing, then a couple photoflip sessions, then just rapid read as possible without going back. Keep in mind you will do some SR+Dip sessions later as this will relax your "I missed a lot" feeling. Then just run a couple SR+Dip sections. If you are allocating your time correctly you should come out way ahead.

I studied Evelyn Woods Speedreading and PRing, so using each system separately on two similar books (same author same topic) the PRing was done faster and had better retention than a one-pass speedread.

-Ramon http://razor.ramon.com

I read mostly self help books and anything related to self improvement. I also try novels but I usually like to read them normally.

It's funny that you say to rapid read then sr/dip because that's what I'm resorting to now, I rapid read first then go back and skitter/dip or postview/dip to review what I most want to remember. That's why I asked the question in the first place about is there anyone else here that has to rapid read almost every book they photoread.

If I pick up a book in a bookstore I know that through the concept of "schema" (previous knowledge about a certain subject) I can turn the pages and just survey what the book is about and in less than 10 minutes come up with a certain feelings about it. NLP (which PR is said to incorporate) states that any sensory experience can set off a series of patterns of memory. In other words, the trigger words from the book trigger my memories, they trip my patterns off causing 1 or many states... "I have a hunch about what this book is about!"

Any NLP'rs, please correct me if I'm wrong.

From a scientific or business man stand point I've got to prove that I'm learning new information and not just taking a walk through memory lane via my patterns. PR/Sr/Dip/etc does give me hunches and feelings and 10% of the book in 1/3rd the time than if I just read a book normally. But it only gives me what I already know also, nothing new.

I Photoread a book on diabetes once what I cam out with was a series of things someone should and should not eat or do. But I already knew it, I reinforced what I already knew and I'm sure some people would be happy to feel like a know it all, but I don't, I wanted new information, I wanted what I didn't know. So I went back and rapid read the rest (90% remaining) of the material that did not trigger a memory, that I didn't previously know anything about so i could not craft a question or purpose about it beforehand and I found that that information was exactly what I needed.

Yes I've tried the open ended questions "what do I not know about that I really need to know" etc and the purposes "I'm Photoreading this book for the purpose of uncovering the specifics of ______ that I may not have thought before." My observation based on my experience is, If I pr, then postview and dip I can see things in the text that I didn't know I about and that I do want to know about and if I were to look at it as a whole it would be close to 10% of the information in the book. The other 90% I could get through rapidreading. my total photoreading time is going to be dependent on my fastest comprehension reading speed if I choose to do that step and go after more than "10%" so wouldn't it make sense to work at increasing that?

I do see the point in doing trigger words, mind maps and writing out purposes and questions if you are forced to sit in a class or meeting and you are using them to activate the material or think about it more. But that's a decision making thing, not reading and if you think about it, it sounds like "active incubation." To go through all that when you're clocking your wpm or are really pressed for time, it's so time consuming. I think that as someone gets faster at PR they stop doing steps that they think is unecessary and they also get faster at reading by not reading everything, not by actually reading or understanding faster.

Just as a small favor to me, in your spare time photoread then preview/dip and see if you can't get "10%" in about 15 minutes. Getting 10% in about an hour is not that good if you ask me.

Mark,
I would think anyone who can PhR can get 10% of almost any book in a matter of minutes. I don't think anyone would disagree w/ you on that.

quote:
Just as a small favor to me, in your spare time photoread then preview/dip and see if you can't get "10%" in about 15 minutes. Getting 10% in about an hour is not that good if you ask me.

What we are talking about is 10% which to me means 10 pgs of info out of a 100. I don't know where you get taking an hour for 10%. I mean 10% is not even mentioned in the course.

What the course is saying and all the LS coaches tell us is this: You will improve your speed at knowing the material in a third less time. Or, something tantamount to that So, all of us should be looking to improve our personal time frame and not compare ourselves to any commercial or to others who are at different stages. Know your time frame. Then work w/ that.

You sound like you are saying that you have no need for PhRing and are questioning why others do. Is that what you are getting at here?

Mark, you also posted this: I read mostly self help books and anything related to self improvement.

From my experience w/ self help books, they only take 10-15 minutes at tops to get 50-60% of the meaning. These are fairly short books w/ very similar content.

BUT, what does take time w/ self help books is putting the exercises they mention into practice Self help books are simple by nature of the beast. Putting into practice even ONE method is another matter.

Students like some of these people posting here in the df need to pass exams. Passing exams means----info---facts---data. In this case the PhRing Whole Mind System is terrific. It helps teenagers see a full pattern of study from drinking enuff water to get oxygen into the brain to music to stimulate the brain, to MMing and especially LAyerInG

Unfortunately, in our educational system in America, we don't spend any time teaching students how to study. PhRing truly is the missing link.

Then there's Paul's Bibliography and half.com (mgrego ) for all the rest.

[This message has been edited by Margaret (edited June 27, 2002).]

I thought Margaret's answer was pretty good, just wanted to add that, to be honest, I think self-help books are one of the easier books to activate, and agree that they usually only take me about half an hour. The only one that has given me problems was "Flow" by Mihaly Chizenthmi-something (I will never get that name right). But other self-help ones have come relatively quickly.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not bragging or trying to be mean or anything, I'm saying that self-help books usually aren't one of the types of books where I have to resort to rapid reading.

-Ramon http://razor.ramon.com

[This message has been edited by razordu30 (edited June 27, 2002).]

I'm not questioning why other people do it because I know why. I've been struggling with it for 2 years and I still try. My original question was "is there anyone else that feels the need to resort to rapid reading in order to truely 'read' the book?"

Also, Photoreading has not made me 3 times as fast, it has actually slowed me down. Depending on the text I can vary my rapid reading speed from 3000-7000 wpm and the best I've ever done with Photoreading (all the steps) is 1700wpm. I'm not going to complain too much though because I've only spent $18 on a book.

Self improvement books aren't always easy to read. Natural Brilliance isn't easy to read and no way was I happy with getting 10% out of that. I read it normally, as I do most of the posts here.

-I don't know where you get taking an hour for 10%. I mean 10% is not even mentioned in the course.-

The book actually says that only 4-11% of the text actually carries any meaning. I averaged it out to 10% just to simplify. And yes Paul does say that PR teaches you to read for "core concepts" so if you put 2 and 2 together you're supposed to Photoread and then just read for core concepts and that's called 'reading.' Numerous times on this forum people have said to activate in sessions of 30 minutes, and to do 3 passes if necessary. Now we're up to almost 2 hours on a (average) 300page book and even more if you have to rapid read. I can rapid read a page in 15 seconds (which is my average if I want to understand as I go) I can do a book in 1 hour and 15 minutes and I didn't miss a thing. That gives me plenty of time for previewing and Photoreading if I want to do that beforehand. 6 months ago I had a problem with the PR step, now I'm questioning and pondering activation techniques saying that rapid reading is the king. If the Photoreading step enables me to understand on 1 pass, isn't what I'm saying a good thing to everyone here?

I'm just lost in limbo when I sr/dip. It just seems to me that speed increases with the amount skipped over, not by increasing speed or understanding faster. The more you learn the more schema you have enabling you to go even faster, as you've stated with self help books, but that increase in speed is because of you not what you're doing.

In the photoreading book itself, name one page that you could just supperread? There isn't one. It's all worthy to read normally and that's exactly what I had to do to it.

quote:
I'm not questioning why other people do it because I know why. I've been struggling with it for 2 years and I still try.

Let's get to the bottom of why using PhotoReading is a struggle for you. It should be the farthest from it.

quote:
My original question was "is there anyone else that feels the need to resort to rapid reading in order to truely 'read' the book?"

Absolutely! Whenever you want more detail beyond SuperReading & Dipping. Often times you'll spend a part of many of your activation passes Rapid Reading for specific detail.

The Activation techniques are flexible, and they work hand-in-hand. They are all about "burning in" those new neuro pathways between your conscious mind and inner mind, one layer of conscious comprehension at a time with each activation pass, as you begin comprehending your entire book very quickly, from "whole-to-parts."

quote:
Also, Photoreading has not made me 3 times as fast, it has actually slowed me down.

Then, you haven't mastered the basics quite yet.

Also, it's not about "regular-reading" faster. PhotoReading is about learning, comprehending, understanding, and retaining within a third of the time or less than you would have to spend with conventional regular reading or speed reading approaches. Subvocalization brought down to a minimum necessary.

The progress you may make with the PhotoReading book alone over many months can be achieved in just a few weeks with the homestudy course, or just one weekend in the live class.

quote:
[B}Self improvement books aren't always easy to read. Natural Brilliance isn't easy to read and no way was I happy with getting 10% out of that. I read it normally, as I do most of the posts here.[/B]

You're right on track! Give yourself credit.

quote:
The book actually says that only 4-11% of the text actually carries any meaning. I averaged it out to 10% just to simplify. And yes Paul does say that PR teaches you to read for "core concepts" so if you put 2 and 2 together you're supposed to Photoread and then just read for core concepts and that's called 'reading.'

Nope.

quote:
Numerous times on this forum people have said to activate in sessions of 30 minutes, and to do 3 passes if necessary. Now we're up to almost 2 hours on a (average) 300page book and even more if you have to rapid read.

It is impossible to set a time standard for all books. It's gonna change from book to book, depending on your purpose for reading, the outcome you want to have, and if you have any prior knowledge of a topic at all.

quote:
I can rapid read a page in 15 seconds (which is my average if I want to understand as I go) I can do a book in 1 hour and 15 minutes and I didn't miss a thing. That gives me plenty of time for previewing and Photoreading if I want to do that beforehand. 6 months ago I had a problem with the PR step, now I'm questioning and pondering activation techniques saying that rapid reading is the king. If the Photoreading step enables me to understand on 1 pass, isn't what I'm saying a good thing to everyone here?

The challenge is to duplicate those results on a regular basis, on any book.

quote:
I'm just lost in limbo when I sr/dip.

That throws a flag up about your Mind Probing questions, or lack of, and Purpose/Outcome statement determined in the Prepare step. Without creating Mind Probing questions with the key words and phrases you wrote down during your 8-minute Preview of your book from cover-to-cover, your inner mind may not know where to Dip while SuperReading.

quote:
In the photoreading book itself, name one page that you could just supperread? There isn't one. It's all worthy to read normally and that's exactly what I had to do to it.

Very true....from whole-to-parts, in a third of the time or less than what it takes with regular old reading and re-reading and re-reading hoping something eventually comes together.

Include "choosing mastery" in the step 3 pre&post affirmations.

quote--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The book actually says that only 4-11% of the text actually carries any meaning. I averaged it out to 10% just to simplify. And yes Paul does say that PR teaches you to read for "core concepts" so if you put 2 and 2 together you're supposed to Photoread and then just read for core concepts and that's called 'reading.'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nope.

Top of page 61 in the PR book. I worded it poorly, should have said activate for core concepts. If the 4-11% isn't a Photoreading concept then it was passed off as implied knowledge via the reference. I personally prefere the "80% of the core concepts come from 20% of the material" but how can we tell.

As I said before, I already said that like everyone else I could burn thru a book using PR and get "what I know beforehand" (schema) and be done with the book real quick. Then when I go back and actually read the book I see tons of stuff I didn't know about in advance to even begin to ask the mind probes about or create the purposes about so I naturally my mind couldn't dip on them but when I went back and Rapid Read I finally saw this 'new' stuff I missed before.

If you're saying that really good books like Photoreading and Natural Brilliance should be rapid read and less "deep" are more for PR/Activating, then that's exactly what I want to hear, because it's kind of what I suspect.

I go to extremes with what I read and I don't think anyone here does this but I'm either done with a book after a preview or I want to read the whole thing.

One last question Dana, first of all thanks for the help and second of all how would someone make purposes and mind probes for information that is new? Mine like

"what's my ultimate application of this material?"

"What have I not thought of yet that is the key to solving this problem?"

and things similar to that are all I can come up with.

Suggestions for questions

There are 4 categories of questions one could ask when exploring a book. A selection from 2 or more categories is useful for non fiction books while the general questions are enough for Novels... though there are some additional useful questions that can be added when reading novels for school or book reports.

General questions... using trigger words, subheads and index, turn these into the who, what, why, when, where and how questions. If you have difficulty answering any of these questions you'll know your not understanding the significance of the text.

Application to Life... these questions are along the line of "How can I use this information?", "Whom can I help or tell about this?" "What practial applications can I have for this information?", "What long term benefits are in it for me?" etc. These questions help as a memory aid.

Inferential Questions...these questions are one where you are asking yourself how your doing, Eg. "What is my purpose?", "How easy or hard is it for me to understand this?", "Will this suit my needs?". These questions help you to judge how much time you need to put into actually gaining information from a book.

Questions that need more information Here you are specifically asking yourself questions about what you don't understand. Eg. "What does the author mean by... ?", "Where is the author going with this?" "Why is that considered important?" These help you gain even more from the text and engage your critical thinking about what you've read.

Alex

Let's go back to page 25 of the PR book. The most overlooked step in the entire system is your Purpose.

If you don't have a purpose for reading a book, then don't read it. That is a complete waste of your time and energy.

If you don't know why you're reading a book, you won't take what you need from it. Simply because you don't know what to take. You have to precisely define your reasons to get the most out of the system.

If you don't know how much time you're willing to spend beforehand, you'll be frustrated because it seems like you're spending too much time on each step, or consequently you may not spend enough time on certain steps. Time limits discipline your mind.

The phrase 'cut to the chase' applies here. When you Activate, cut out what you don't need to know and zoom in on what you want, to whatever level you want to take it to.

Most books have a few central ideas that can be fleshed out over a page or two of notes so even to say 10% is being liberal with many authors unless they write highly technical manuals like medical or UNIX texts.

It helps to have that overview so you know where to zoom, or if zooming is even worth the time.

Some books are not worth reading. Without that overview, you don't find this out until you're done reading, hours later. Life is too short for that; it only takes a few seconds to decide not to waste your time and put a useless book away. This step alone saves you hours.

Some books have skimpy information and are padded out with superfluous information. You don't need to memorize everything in those books. Don't waste your time overstudying a glorified pamphlet.

Some books are detailed but you only need certain details in certain areas. Either you know the rest, or you don't need to know it right away. Skim and superread past the details you don't need and dip into the ones you do. Zoom in on what you need and leave the rest for later. It'll still be there if you have to go back for it.

PhotoReading isn't memorization, it's strategic reading. Take what you need and leave the rest. Even then, take only what you need and can handle at one time.

PS. I find that self help books are short on actual info and spend lots of time telling stories and selling the author's credentials. That stuff is completely unnecessary and overstudying it doesn't help you in any way.

PhotoReading isn't memorization, it's strategic reading.

BINGO!

Interesting though I find the techniques enhances my memory of the material. Maybe because I bypass the junk? Yes it's strategic reading alright.

However some do want the tales that flesh out the authors ideas. I managed to junk one book where the author gave instruction for technique in 1 paragraph, (vague at best I've seen it better explained elsewhere) refered back to it a couple of times and didn't even have decent anedotes how others have used it. Glad to have PR & activated that book in 20 minutes. Oh and his writing style was shocking, probably why I left it on the bookshelf so long. I started regular reading it ages ago and shelved it after photoreading and activating it I found out why.

Obviously MarkP4 has purpose for reading the books, he says himself that he is able to get rid of duds quickly.

One question worthwhile asking of books that have a similar theme. What is new to me? Or What new information does this book have that I could benefit from by knowing? That will give PR a great kickstart when you read books with a similar theme.

Alex

All of that is tried and true study information taugh in highschool. I have a book that I kept called "Becoming a master student" by David B. Ellis ISBN:0-942456-10-6 that was the text for a college prep class I had in highschool. An overview, a survey, a preview, scanning, most books can be thrown out after this is done. Over 10% can be sucked out of a book with this very common technique. Yes it's very good, yes it works but no one owns it. It's not photo or speedreading. It's basic common sense. It's the way ordinary people read the newspaper or skim through a catalogue. I personally know no one that starts at the beginning of a magazine or newspaper or catalogue and reads every word all the way till the end.

What about the "hunches" and "feelings" and dejavu being just re-awaked schema (or previous knowledge) gotten through the Preview?

I have a book that I kept called "Becoming a master student" by David B. Ellis ISBN:0-942456-10-6 that was the text for a college prep class I had in highschool. An overview, a survey, a preview, scanning, most books can be thrown out after this is done.
True. I've seen other books by Tony Buzan, Ed deBono, and Jean Marie Stine that also had these ideas. They're not new but they're also not as widely held or as common as you think. I wish they had books like that at my highschool...I had to go to the library and look under paranormal phenomena to find Superlearning by the Ostranders when I was 12.

Over 10% can be sucked out of a book with this very common technique. Yes it's very good, yes it works but no one owns it. It's not photo or speedreading. It's basic common sense.
Common sense isn't so common. And most people would probably be skeptical if you told them they could study a book in detail without reading every word and trying to memorize it all. That is just not necessary if you know the key concepts. Hence the strategy of PhotoReading.

What about the "hunches" and "feelings" and dejavu being just re-awaked schema (or previous knowledge) gotten through the Preview?
Makes perfect sense to me. Your brain's already associating the ideas you've previewed and activation will be easier then.

My problem is I either toss the book out after the preview or rapid read the whole thing cover to cover, there's no in between for me. My comprehension reading speed is either equal to or better than the speed that I can photoread and do 3 activation sessions. I can't handle skipping around in the text if I'm really interested in the subject. I always want high detail.

I think the most interesting thing for me from the photoreading stage is the ownership feeling I get from the reading books etc. It becomes easier to apply the knowledge because inwardly I already know it. The problem with these feelings is they are hard to explain.

I tried to explain it on the genius code forum where I explained something of my direct learning experience. I must have seached 30 sites and hundreds of pages. I only Photoread looking for data. Ie. holding consciously in my mind what information I was looking for and then photoread the pages. I found what I was looking for no worries but I also learnt a lot more than I expected. I guess it would come under spontaneous activation.

I started writing out my findings, however I had the good fortune of having lost all my data thanks to the computer chucking a wobbly last night. Now I can start writing it all over again

Mark what I'm trying to say... don't skip the photoreading part... it does make one heck of a difference in memory and usefulness of the stuff you read. You'll notice the deja vu and feelings of familiarity soon enough.

Alex

I already can get dejavu from the Photoreading session complete with hunches and feelings and all that, my theory as to why is above. In the end (isn't that a Linkin Park song?) the only thing I'm even doing anymore is the Photoreading step. Everything else I'm doing is what I always did before.

Photoreading is the one step that's unique to "photoreading." Everything else I already knew. It was just called something different by someone else. Photoreading has not made me faster at actual "reading." It has not made me faster in any aspect. As a matter of fact, doing all the steps slows me down and I actually read less than 100% of the words in the book. When go thru all the steps all of my understanding comes to me only during the rapid reading step. Information that I didn't know about and couldn't ask a mind probe about comes to me plain as day in the text when I read it and I slap myself on the head and go, "DOH! Here's something new."

A while ago I found an old book "The one minute manager meets the Monkey" and it's just a stupid 80's management positive thinking book and I wanted to time myself PRing it but after about 20 pages I backed up and read it cover to cover really fast because it was kind of funny, I actually enjoyed it. It was so stupid that it was funny and even though I could have gotten the "4-11%" in 10 minutes there was a story behind the whole thing that just flowed so fast that I realized something. The same eye movement that skims over 'unimportant' information is the same eye movement that could just read it as long as your there anyway. The difference is just a few seconds.

Another thing to consider (I still laugh about this) is the forward or preface in a book is always written to relax you. So if you relax then superread and dip you invariably skip over the forward. The time that you would take to just read the forward is probably close to the time you spent with your eyes closed. You're not getting ahead. 6 one way, 1/2 dozen the other. Some people skip to the summary too. If you actually read the chapter and also the summary at the end, you've got 2 exposures to the 'important' information right there in your first pass plus you got all the supporting information that makes you believe and see the references the author has for what he's saying. I do think it's possible to skip over 90% or more of the info in a book and get the main points but your missing the authors' personal viewpoints, attitudes, references, leverages and all that stuff. And if your arguement is "you'll get that out of Photoreading" fine, that's your first pass, rapid reading is the last pass you'll need because important information is repeated enough.

I PR'd a couple books about arthritis because my wife has it and the doctors can't do anything about it other than prescribe a drug that my insurance doesn't cover and I wanted to learn all about it. I figured that 3 reasons could have caused it, genetics, diet and lifestyle. You can't change your genetics so I focused on diet and lifestyle when I read. My purposes and mind probes were focused on those 2 things because they're in our control. I PRd and activated 6 books and some pamphlets I got at the doctor and a couple web sites. I did all the steps and made a mind map and all that. The only thing I didn't do was rapid read. I found nothing that we either didn't already know or that the doctor told us or whatnot. My wife can't photoread so she's on page 220 of the first book and I'm done with everything and give up. She looks up from the book and asks, "What's my blood type?" I don't know so I root through her paperwork and I say "Your type O. Why?" She says, "It says right here that Gluten or Wheat should be avoided if you have joint pain especially if your blood type is O." She spends the next week not eating Wheat or any form of it and I rapid read those 6 books and 5 of them said the same thing. She's off the Celebrex and I'm off of Photoreading for a while. My purpose was stronger than any purpose I ever had before, my mind probes covered every area I could think of except for the one idea that worked. The one book that didn't say gluten was the culprit said that dairy was equally bad for someone with blood type O. She's off that too and thank god, more cheese for me. All thanks to reading every stinkin word in order so that I could understand it.

I don't come here to be a naysayer or to tick people off but I'm also not going to lie about results in order to make friends. Photoreading and activating causes me to miss too much information. I've also timed myself and I can rapid read faster than I could previously activate so that's what I'm going to do. I came here recently to find out if others do the same thing and the answer I got is no, it seems as if I'm the only one that really wants to read all the words and skip the tangerine stuff. The overall consensus is 'it works.' Paul made the comment that speedreading is tiring and you have to do the drills everyday or you lose your speed and most people don't keep it up. Since I read everyday I don't consider it "a drill" and I personally think that superreading and dipping is tiring so I guess it's different strokes for different folks. If it works for you and your happy, I'm happy for you. I'm only happy if I read every word and I know it. I'm conditioned.

quote:
Originally posted by MarkP4:
I already can get dejavu from the Photoreading session complete with hunches and feelings and all that, my theory as to why is above. In the end (isn't that a Linkin Park song?) the only thing I'm even doing anymore is the Photoreading step. Everything else I'm doing is what I always did before.

Very true. This exerpt from the "History of PhotoReading" articles explains why....

About the only similarity between speed reading and PhotoReading is the word "reading."

Speed reading is basically regular reading hastened up. Instead of going for words you are going for phrases, complete lines or paragraphs. It's still primarily a conscious-mind, left-brain function.

PhotoReading, on the other hand, is an other-than-conscious, right-brain process. You learn how not to rely on the words that are on the page, but on what goes on in your head. It�s not about moving your eyeballs really fast; it�s about using your brain more efficiently.

Speed reading is about getting comprehension of the words on the page while PhotoReading is about getting comprehension of the meaning of the page.

Speed reading may get you up to 5,000 words per minute, though 1200 words per minute is more the case. With PhotoReading you start at 25,000 words per minute, and where you go from there is anyone�s guess.

With speed reading, 90 percent of people quit using the techniques within a few months. This has to do with the way it is taught. You are taught to go faster and faster, and the faster you go the more doubts will start to creep in as to whether or not you are getting anything. And with these doubts come tensions and stresses, and who wants that?

With PhotoReading there is no stress; it is a calming, relaxing process. This is the case for two reasons. The first has to do with superlearning, accelerated learning. It suggests that if you enter a relaxed state of alertness where you slow down the little voice in the back of your head and relax the body, you will be in an accelerated learning state in which you can learn and process information more optimally. Guess what? When you are in this relaxed state, you can not be stressed. The other reason there is no stress has to do with the fact that you are not worried about whether you are getting anything consciously while PhotoReading because we tell you up front that you won�t. With PhotoReading you will be relaxed and comfortable.

quote:
Photoreading is the one step that's unique to "photoreading." Everything else I already knew. It was just called something different by someone else. Photoreading has not made me faster at actual "reading." It has not made me faster in any aspect. As a matter of fact, doing all the steps slows me down and I actually read less than 100% of the words in the book.

Until you shift your focus from the results you've had in the past and are willing to open your brain to using tips on improving your results in the future, all you will be doing in the present is arguing for your limitations.

First, take a few minutes to witness all the results you've had from using PhotoReading in the past, from a non-judgemental perspective. There is no failure, only feedback.

Then, find 10 books you haven't read on topics you are interested in.

Work the whole 5-step system of PhotoReading on each book, one at a time.

Post back with how you are doing each of the 5 steps so we can give you tips on improving your results and proficiency.

*Sigh.* I'm too tuckered out to really say anything, and I haven't posted in a while. But look, basically, after doing Visual Basic courses, followed by swimming lessons, followed by tutoring sessions, followed by computer game level design, followed by baseball, etc. I CAN ONLY HAVE THE ENERGY TO SAY ONE THING.

I believe that you are thinking about the system nearly all wrong.

If I can already read a book in under an hour and not skip over parts then PR should let me do it in 20 minutes without skipping over parts and that it cannot do. That's why I said I'm throwing in the towel. Photoreading at 25,000wpm then activating at 1500wpm is allot like having a million dollars in the bank but having to work 40 hours a week anyway to take some out. Your Photoreading speed is still the same as your comprehension reading speed assisted by skipping over unimportant information thereby creating the illusion of reading fast. Saying something is 'whole mind reading' is fine but it's unlocked or decoded in the end by really reading something and that depends on your speed at REALLY reading. Total time spent reading is the bottom line regardless of how long I "Photoread at 25,000 wpm with my whole brain." Besides, I'm not speedreading, I'm doing your rapid reading step.

quote:
Originally posted by MarkP4:
If I can already read a book in under an hour and not skip over parts then PR should let me do it in 20 minutes without skipping over parts and that it cannot do.

On certain books, absolutely. This should already be happening for you if you are doing the steps correctly.

You still are not giving us examples of books you have PhotoRead.

Your posts are equivilent to someone upset because they aren't able to deliver a newborn baby with only having read a book on delivering a newborn baby.

quote:
That's why I said I'm throwing in the towel. Photoreading at 25,000wpm then activating at 1500wpm is allot like having a million dollars in the bank but having to work 40 hours a week anyway to take some out.

PhotoReading is more about working 10 hours instead of 40 so you can make larger and larger withdrawals from your inner-mind's $Million dollar account.

quote:
Your Photoreading speed is still the same as your comprehension reading speed assisted by skipping over unimportant information thereby creating the illusion of reading fast. Saying something is 'whole mind reading' is fine but it's unlocked or decoded in the end by really reading something and that depends on your speed at REALLY reading. Total time spent reading is the bottom line regardless of how long I "Photoread at 25,000 wpm with my whole brain." Besides, I'm not speedreading, I'm doing your rapid reading step.

Okay everybody, how do we rescue Mark from his "analysis paralysis"? He knows the steps but hasn't reached "conscious competence" quite yet.

What I have brought up here in this thread are tough questions and what has come back to me are choice phrases from the PR book. I told you before that I photoread just about everything but it's allot easier to do it on "Unlimited Power" and other stuff like that. I have also said that on books like Natural Brilliance, just skimming and scanning or superreading and dipping don't cut it. Grabbing ideas hear and there doesn't cut it on books like that and you said that's true, rapid reading is just for those types of books. Then I said that if you think about it you can rapid read a page just as fast as superreading and dipping and now you're saying hold on there!

Now I think I got it figured out. If it's a book you don't want to read but have to for some reason, or a book that's 90% cr*p, use photoreading. If it's a GOOD BOOK like Natural Brilliance use Photoreading and finish it off with rapid reading.

I can't believe that I told a whole bunch of photoreaders that you can actually fly with speedreading if you do the photoreading step beforehand and because I even used the word 'speedreading' that's all anyone cared about. It's like a swear word here.

What's the difference between a preview and a survey?

What's the difference between an objective, an assignment or a purpose?

What's the difference between trigger words and key ideas?

What's the difference between a postview and a review?

What's the difference between crafting mind probes and coming up with questions?

What's the difference between superreading and skimming?

What's the difference between dipping and scanning?

What the difference between rapid reading and speedreading?

What makes something "Whole Mind reading" as opposed to "Not whole mind reading?" Is it the questions? The purpose? The affirmations? The Mind Map? The Photoreading step? A combination of all?

Is it possible to have an idea come to you that you have not dipped on? If you skim by it, could you still know it?

quote:
Originally posted by MarkP4:
What I have brought up here in this thread are tough questions

Your questions reveal you haven't learned how to use PhotoReading quite yet. Give yourself some slack. Learning occurs in layers.

quote:
Now I think I got it figured out. If it's a book you don't want to read but have to for some reason, or a book that's 90% cr*p, use photoreading. If it's a GOOD BOOK like Natural Brilliance use Photoreading and finish it off with rapid reading.

Nope. PhotoReading works on all printed material. You'll see how as you begin doing the system correctly.

quote:
I can't believe that I told a whole bunch of photoreaders that you can actually fly with speedreading if you do the photoreading step beforehand and because I even used the word 'speedreading' that's all anyone cared about. It's like a swear word here.

When you are using PhotoReading correctly, the differences are self-exclamatory.

quote:
What's the difference between a preview and a survey? What's the difference between an objective, an assignment or a purpose? What's the difference between trigger words and key ideas? What's the difference between a postview and a review? What's the difference between crafting mind probes and coming up with questions? What's the difference between superreading and skimming? What's the difference between dipping and scanning?

The difference is in how you use them.

quote:
What the difference between rapid reading and speedreading?

Speed reading techniques are all about cramming information into the greater processing centers of your brain through the limited conscious mind, hoping something sticks.

If you use speed reading techniques with a purpose/outcome statement after doing the PhotoReading step, they actually function in reverse, as they will begin triggering up the information you absorbed during the PhotoReading step.

quote:
What makes something "Whole Mind reading" as opposed to "Not whole mind reading?"

The distinction lies in how you blast the printed info into your other-than-conscious at a page per second with the rod vision in your cornea, together with the activation techniques which "burn in" the new neuro pathways between your conscious mind and where all the information is absorbed in your subconscious during the PhotoReading step.

quote:
Is it the questions? The purpose? The affirmations? The Mind Map? The Photoreading step? A combination of all?

Yup. Combo of it all.

At the same time, you also benefit from doing just the PhotoReading step on multiple books.

quote:
Is it possible to have an idea come to you that you have not dipped on?

Yup. The more books you PhotoRead and fully activate, the more spontaneous activation will occur.

quote:
If you skim by it, could you still know it?

You'll consciously know it better, and quicker, and retain it longer.

Post back when you have PhotoRead more books. Share how much time you spent activating.

Good luck!

-If you use speed reading techniques with a purpose/outcome statement after doing the PhotoReading step, they actually function in reverse, as they will begin triggering up the information you absorbed during the PhotoReading step.-

That's exactly what I do. So am I still doing the "whole mind reading" if I jump right into rapid reading without sr/dipping?

In my case where I missed the info about blood type (earlier in this thread) by skittering/sr/dipping, how could I have gotten that without RapidReading? Is there some way I worded something wrong like a question, purpose, affirmation or something? I mean, I skipped over some pretty important stuff in many books during a syntopic reading session. It's stuff like that tick me off and send me back to just reading fast.

Along the same lines I was going to ask you what you would do if you were looking through a pile of documents or books looking specifically for a "clue" or something that you don't know about yet that is the key to understanding a situation. I don't mean a needle in a haystack but several needles in a pile of needles where you're not sure which is the right trail. Imagine your boss throwing a book at you and saying "I want a full report by tomorrow" and there's no cover or anything and he runs out the door and you can't even ask him why you're doing the report.

Also, what about deep philosophy or the bible where meaning is hidden within metaphors or stories. How do we understand that fast?

What about information where in order to understand it you have to be put in another persons shoes? NLP says there's an underlying story, there are presuppositions, rules and patterns governing people's behavior. Grabbing the authors main points is one thing but how do we find their motivation for comming to those conclusions? A journey leads to the conclusions and it's the journey may also include missinformation or other problems that they overcame and part of the overall explaination is an example. Another way to put it is, what if the author is trying to dispell a myth and has to give pages and pages of examples before stating the new conclusion? This may happen several times in a book, in fact, it may be the WHOLE book.

The urge to overdip has been explained here before by not having a clear purpose, but in the above example the purpose could have been clear but the myth in fact may have taken allot of reasoning in order to conquer it. You may even have to read between the lines.

Even in interoffice memo's allot of emotion can be grabbed out of them. It says, "Do the inventory by Thursday and make sure it's accurate" but it also says, "We are losing money" but without saying it.

quote:
Originally posted by MarkP4:
-If you use speed reading techniques with a purpose/outcome statement after doing the PhotoReading step, they actually function in reverse, as they will begin triggering up the information you absorbed during the PhotoReading step.-
That's exactly what I do. So am I still doing the "whole mind reading" if I jump right into rapid reading without sr/dipping?

Exactly. You'll cut down your Rapid Reading time if you go through it with SuperReading & Dipping, one, or two, or three times.

quote:
In my case where I missed the info about blood type (earlier in this thread) by skittering/sr/dipping, how could I have gotten that without RapidReading?

Mind Probing/SuperReading/Skittering & Dipping would have brought you to the pages which contained all the info about the blood types. Then you would create individual branches for each blood type on your Mind Map. When you're ready for all the specific detail about the blood types, then shift into Rapid Reading back in those places and adding more and more trigger words and phrases to your Mind Map.

Keep in mind, too, for technical material, you are better off creating a Mind Map for each chapter. Treat each chapter as a book itself, activating it all up consciously, from whole-to-parts.

quote:
Is there some way I worded something wrong like a question, purpose, affirmation or something? I mean, I skipped over some pretty important stuff in many books during a syntopic reading session. It's stuff like that tick me off and send me back to just reading fast.

This is why I've been wanting you to pick a new book and share exactly what Mind Probing questions you create, so we can see how you are doing it, fresh.

quote:
Along the same lines I was going to ask you what you would do if you were looking through a pile of documents or books looking specifically for a "clue" or something that you don't know about yet that is the key to understanding a situation.

That's what you weave into your purpose/outcome statement in Prepare.

quote:
I don't mean a needle in a haystack but several needles in a pile of needles where you're not sure which is the right trail. Imagine your boss throwing a book at you and saying "I want a full report by tomorrow" and there's no cover or anything and he runs out the door and you can't even ask him why you're doing the report.

Does he or has he done that?

Consider the promotion you could earn by accomodating such a request, by using PhotoReading.

In reality, the material doesn't need a cover or title.

quote:
Also, what about deep philosophy or the bible where meaning is hidden within metaphors or stories. How do we understand that fast?
What about information where in order to understand it you have to be put in another persons shoes? NLP says there's an underlying story, there are presuppositions, rules and patterns governing people's behavior. Grabbing the authors main points is one thing but how do we find their motivation for comming to those conclusions?

It all stems back to your Purpose/Outcome for reading it in the first place, which automatically shifts you out of a passive reader into an active engaged reader & learner.

quote:
A journey leads to the conclusions and it's the journey may also include missinformation or other problems that they overcame and part of the overall explaination is an example. Another way to put it is, what if the author is trying to dispell a myth and has to give pages and pages of examples before stating the new conclusion? This may happen several times in a book, in fact, it may be the WHOLE book.

You'll discover the theme and discern whether it is true or a myth, spending 1/3 to a 1/10 of the time you would normally use with normal reading.

quote:
The urge to overdip has been explained here before by not having a clear purpose, but in the above example the purpose could have been clear but the myth in fact may have taken allot of reasoning in order to conquer it. You may even have to read between the lines.

This is the reason for the time limit on each activation pass. You'll know in advance you can't spend a whole lot of time in each place you Dip, because you have to reach the end of the book when 30 minutes have past.

quote:
Even in interoffice memo's allot of emotion can be grabbed out of them. It says, "Do the inventory by Thursday and make sure it's accurate" but it also says, "We are losing money" but without saying it.

So, have we exhausted your questions (analysis paralysis) yet, so you are able to move on to developing your PhotoReading skill on more books, more intelligently?

I guess the untimate test would be for you to assign me or us a book and we'll tell you what our purposes, ect. are and then you could drill us. Or have someone else do it here.

quote:
Originally posted by MarkP4:
I guess the untimate test would be for you to assign me or us a book and we'll tell you what our purposes, ect. are and then you could drill us. Or have someone else do it here.

Rather than putting you into that stressful "ultimate test" mindset, consider what you need to do to get the same benefit with PhotoReading which many thousands of other people already enjoy.

So, step onto the court and find several books on topics you are interested in but haven't read yet. Then, work the system as we have been coaching you on how to do it.

I applaud you for your self-motivation and all you have learned so far from only working with the PhotoReading book. Possessing "self-teaching" skill is an invaluable asset. At the same time, consider doing the live seminar and/or the self-study course to put your skill-development in overdrive. The progress you may make over several months with the how-to book can be achieved in just a few weeks with the self-study, or just one weekend in the live class.

Start a new thread with your next book. Choose mastery!

^^^What Dana said.

I'm not selling the PR system so I have no special need to defend it to you. If speed reading works for you, by all means go ahead and use it! It's not a bad word to me and I won't knock it if it works.

To each his own.

Mark, you have worked yourself up against a wall. It seems like you are trying to go through the wall by banging your head hard on it. Obviously it's not working!!

Take some steps backwards and look, if there is a door in the wall. That's the easiest way to go to the other side.

quote:
Originally posted by purjo:
Mark, you have worked yourself up against a wall. It seems like you are trying to go through the wall by banging your head hard on it. Obviously it's not working!!
Take some steps backwards and look, if there is a door in the wall. That's the easiest way to go to the other side.

Excellent advice purjo! Well done!

I got a hold of some speedreading books with reading comprehension tests in them. I'm going to run all 5 steps on them and let the scores speak for themselves.

I'll do one test a day (or less) to allow for the 24 hour activation. My criteria is 60% to pass and I'm not giving myself any more time to activate than it would take to just flat out rapid read it.

I'll start a separate thread for test results.