I have been practicing SFQ an average of an hour a day for three months hoping to alleviate longtime depression, anxiety, and PTSD. I started this regular practice after reading about the study that was done showing that SFQ improved symptoms of depression in a test group. So far, I have not noticed any positive change in these conditions or any movement of energy or indication that anything positive is happening when I practice. The forms don't feel natural and relaxing to me as some other qigong forms have, and have often brought up feelings of frustration and stress. 3 months seems like a fair trial (the study group did 2 months). Any thoughts or suggestions?
IMHO 'wellness' is best brought about through a multi-pronged approach focusing on health and wholeness. I feel best when I watch what I eat, get the proper amount of sleep at night, engage in some physical activity or exercise as well as allowing some down-time (physical, mental and emotional rest) during the day.

I think of it as a balanced lifestyle.

It also helps me to get out of myself - focus some of my energy on doing for others. If I get locked up in my own head too much I find that I'm in bad company. I have a tendency to brood and dwell on negatives too often and sometimes this turns into a self-reinforcing feedback loop; the worse I feel the more I brood which makes me feel worse and so I brood more and so on.

When that happens I stop whatever I'm doing and go take a walk or a motorcycle ride or spend some time trying to do a good turn for someone else. Or I pray.

I also do Reiki on myself at least once or twice a day. Finally, SFQ exercises are helpful to me in keeping things open and balanced. But again, I see it as just one tool in my toolbox. There are lots of other tools in there, and I have to use them all.

It's like building a birdhouse or something. If all I had was a hammer, I couldn't do a very good job.

But if I had a hammer

(there'd be no more folksingers!)

uh hem....as I was saying...if I had a hammer AND a saw AND a power drill AND a miter box AND some paint AND some brushes I could build a very nice little birdhouse, indeed.

There are a lot of tools out there - Reiki, SFQ, good diet and exercise programs, etc. Choose wisely from among them. Use ALL the tools you can find that you find are appropriate and might be helpful to you. Learn how to use them well, use them appropriately and use them often.

Just my $0.02
Hi Makemerry,
Just thought that I would also put my 2 cents worth in. Sometimes blockages
can be a lot more rooted than others, whether emotional or physical. Sometimes
feeling worse than better can be a good sign that you are making progress, like
feelings of frustation and stress. My advice would be to keep at sfq, as I feel that
you are making progress. Three months is a fair trail, but like I said, some blockages
take longer to remove. Not feeling natural and relaxed suggests that to me, as well
as the frustration and stress. Like Monkbiker says, there are many tools that can help,
but I really think that you should also continue sfq. I really feel that you are ready
to make some headway.

Just my thoughts and suggestions.
Love,
Gabby
I also agree with what Gabby said about how things can sometimes feel like they're getting worse just before you make a breakthrough.

I remember seeing a video of a water droplet that was being bombarded by sound waves. There was a pattern of waves within the water drop that formed in response to the sound pressure. There were 5 stable little pinpoints of lights where these small waves intersected each other. As they increased the frequency the distortion patterns suddenly turned chaotic and for a brief moment there were sparkling little pinpoints all across the water drop as the small waves smashed into each other.
Then, all at once these small waves "reorganized into a higher level" and there were 8 stable small pinpoints of light.

The moral of the story is what Gabby just pointed out. It's also been expressed as "it's always darkest just before the dawn". When we're doing something new; physical exercise, Reiki, Qigong, martial arts or whatever - it's not uncommon to experience some resistance and even some degree of chaos right before we "escape into a higher level of organization".

Don't quit just before you have a breakthrough!


On Edit - it's called "cymatics". I found this video on YouTube. The fellow is using salt but the principal is the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp4igyujPm0
Thanks for the input.
For those who respond, I'd be interested in knowing what you do for your SFQ practice. the benefits you've experienced from your practice of SFQ.
Thanks in advance.
I say keep going makemerry - you said that you were trying to alleviate long-time illnesses - these may take a little longer than 3 months in my own experience.

I started SFQ because I had a really bad back for a few years - some days couldn't walk and very painful for most of the rest of the time as well.I can't take drugs of any sort and rely on natural healing.

It took me quite a few months with regular practice of about 1 hour daily and I did get a bit worse before I got better. That was 5 years ago. I've been pain free for several years and there have been numerous other benefits. My anxiety and stress levels are virtually zero, my moodswings almost non-existent.

I have loads of energy and am constantly told that I have beautiful glowing skin - absolutely great for someone who spent most of their childhood in the sun without screen (unwittingly of course).
I had the same feelings Makemerry. Around the 3 month mark I thought that should have been enuff of a trial of SFQ...nothing had changed with my health, I have Chronic fatigue Syndrome, Asthma and when I'm in so much pain I get depressed. During the 4th month I gave up. Stop all qigong that I was dong. I got worse and was in chronic pain. My hip / leg and neck pain was so bad I was going to quit work. Doctors couldn't help me so I went back to SFQ...I had nothing to loose.

Like you I got feelings of being Frustraed and angry.So I started with 30mins of Small universe laying down and did the active exercises when I could.I think I was healing when I stopped doing SFQ but didn't realise I was healing becuase there were no improvements that I could see.

Within a month I started to feel a little better and customers commented at work how much better I was looking.Now at the 8 month mark I have no pain in my hips, a little pain in my kness. Hardly any pain in my neck, still some back pain. MY asthma has improve slightly. My chronic fatigue has improved slightly. My happiness levels are extremely high now and my stress levels are lowering. I still have a long way to go before I'm completely healed, but I know I will be completely healed in the future.

I am doing my SFQ in blocks of 30mins. I try for 2 x 30mins blocks a day or more. 1st I do Small universe then a couple of hours later I do my active exercise's, and If I have time I do another 30mins of which ever exercise I want...like Breathing of the universe and or Harmony of the univese. I used to be too ridged and do blocks of 1 hour of SFQ and that didn't suit me at all, only served to stress me out.

So key is to keep at it...atleast 30mins everyday and more as you have time. Don't be locked into doing it the same way everyday, chnge it round...do what you feel for that day Ie if you feel like doing 2 lots of Small universe and leaving out the active exercises for that day then do it that way.

Cheers and best of health

Uly
I'm happy to hear the healing stories here.

I have suffered from anxiety and depression for most of my life. I agree that there should be more than one method at "healing" your depression and anxiety.

What has worked for me in addition to regular SSFQ is exercise. Yes, exercise. For most people that is out of the question. I know that regular exercise changes the chemicals in your brain that lead to anxiety and sadness. I'm not talking about merely walking, find something that gets your blood moving quicker. This has helped me A LOT. Plus I feel younger and look better and have more stamina and energy. Please don't dismiss it, it will help most people.

I would like to echo the idea about serving others. This is also big. Forget yourself and help others who need assistance. I know that our ego plays a role in our depression and anxiety. We become fixated on ourselves too much. Try to reach out to others, friends family or people you come in contact with.


I think that if you follow everyone's advice here on the SFQ board you will see real improvements.
And pie.

Don't forget pie.

A nice little slice of pie every once in a while will do wonders!

I like the pie scene in the John Travolta movie "Michael". It captures my feelings about pie perfectly.
And we're coming up on pie season too! \:\)
I like the berry pies best. Particularly, Strawberry-Rhubarb. I had a S-R pie once that had custard underneath the berry filling.

MMMMM!!!!!

I know some folks like the cream pies - Boston Cream, meringue, Mile-High Pie, pumpkin and so forth. But to me, that's just pudding with a crust.

And, at the risk of offending any Southerners here, I can't tolerate Pecan Pie - WAYYY too sweet for me. And I'm not a big fan of mincemeat pie either. Same reason. Too sweet.

One of my favorites is apple pie with a big chunk of cheddar cheese on the side!
I agree with the comment of the multi-pronged approach.

I do not have SFQ, but own almost all Paraliminals, PR, Sonic, etc.

In my view not all techniques, no matter how good, give instant success, as the cause of the illness is probably treated better with other modalities in order to start improving.

I fully suscribe to the balanced lifestyle suggestion. On the other side, when I had problems of emotional nature, I took L-theanine, a natural product from green tea. It did help. Now I have found the schizandra, a Chinese herb, has helped me more. For emotional problems, I suggest to abstain completely from alcohol, which is a mood-enhancer drink.

Over 30 years ago when I got into natural therapies, I learnt that self-empowerment is essential. In simple terms, you need to learn how to heal yourself. The doctor, therapist, etc is no more than an advisor. He/she may succeed in helping you, but this may not be the case. You need to start learning a bit from books, the web, etc what to do to recover your health and keep improving it. If you are stuck with one technique, look for another one to get you moving again. If SFQ is too gentle, you may consider using one of the emotional free techniques to get you over the hump!

Good luck!
I appreciate the stories some of you shared about your experience using SFQ to deal with anxiety and depression. These are encouraging.
When I do small universe I don't feel anything happening. I have a hard time visualizing the energy moving. Do some of you reach a point where you can feel something beneficial when you do small universe?

"What has worked for me in addition to regular SSFQ is exercise. Yes, exercise. For most people that is out of the question...."
I love exercise and do it regularly, but it doesn't seem to have a big impact on the anxiety and depression.

"I would like to echo the idea about serving others. This is also big. Forget yourself and help others who need assistance. I know that our ego plays a role in our depression and anxiety. We become fixated on ourselves too much. Try to reach out to others..."
Like exercise, service is commonly recommended as an antidote to depression, and it's something I do. I spend about 20 hours in an average week doing heartfelt volunteer work for a family struggling with cancer. It has been frustrating at times to read and re-read much of the standard advice for getting out of depression. I want to say, well that's good advice and it's a good way to live, but for me it doesn't change the anxiety/depression.
I appreciate you sharing that in any case. It's good to know that some people experience these things as helpful for anxiety/depression.
makemerry,

I can relate to getting advice when things do not seem to be helping. And taking nothing away from the other advice here, I know at least for me, I need to focus. And since this is an SFQ forum and an SFQ question, I will do just that: focus on SFQ.

As others have said (and I echo), you cannot gauge your success with SFQ based on that study. First of all, though the study was good, the sampling was not that large. I only say this, to again, reiterate what others have said: everyone is different.

I have no doubt that some people will be helped from regular SFQ practice in 3 months. But I would be willing to bet that some have been helped in 3 weeks or even 3 days and notice it. Others, may take 6 months or a year or longer. It depends on the blockages, where they are, what brought them about in the first place, how deep or deeply ingrained they are etc. And sometimes, for some people, they are making improvement, but they are not that sensitive to energy yet, so they are not yet aware of what is happening.

So for some people, 3 months is a very long time, others, based on how long the energy blockage has been there, it is only a short time. It really depends on the person. I had some wonderful results with SFQ right away, on many health issues. But I have been practicing Tai Chi and other forms of qigong for years.

However, the migraines and hiatal hernia took longer to heal. And they did! I no longer take migraine medication nor suffer from them. Even when I have one of the precursors to migraines or I start to feel one, I can change the energy using SFQ and walla! No migraines! That took much longer than 3 months for me.

I too have some anxiety and depression issues as part of my mental health profile. All I can tell you is that SFQ has helped me. So far, the problem is not totally gone, but I can feel the moving of the energy and feel better most days now, when I practice and afterwards. My life has improved and my threshold increased--meaning I remain more calm and centered, even in the midst of my pain. The change is so pronounced, that there is no comparison to my "before" and "after" SFQ. And that too took some time and some long practice. Sometimes, I had to do some longer sessions here and there to really "jump-start" the process. So, I would do a longer session from time to time as a big "booster" shot. And this works also.

Also, since this is message healing, information healing, signal healing, as well as energy healing and spiritual healing, the messages we give ourselves matters a lot too. This is a concept that sometimes takes some getting used to.

But like all of the blockages that we have, its all energy! So we must be relentless in giving ourselves a positive message. I am not discouraging you from coming here for support and with questions. That is good and helpful for all of us.

And, you need to keep telling yourself the message (or some variation thereof) (especially at the beginning of the practice, both of Small Universe and Active Exercise), "All my blockages are gone, all my channels are open, all my anxiety and depression is gone, I feel good, I am completely healed!"

THis relates to your question about the Small Universe also (SU): there is no one perfect way to do this, nor a bad way. It is only "good, better, best". If you cannot yet feel the energy nor visualize anything, it's okay. If you are a visual person, just pick a color or a bright light--or have a color or colored light or something to look at first--and then just imagine the light going from place to place. Master Lin uses the image of a hot coal going from energy center to energy center and each time he breathes in it glows brighter. But you can use any image of light or color that you want.

But if you are not a visual person or cannot yet visualize it, pretend you are! Just tell yourself before you begin, "I can see/feel/hear (or whatever) the energy as it goes from place to place in the SU". It might feel like a "lie" at first, but that message is not as good as just saying it to yourself and pretending to believe it.

I know that many of us experience a dissonance between so-called "reality" and what we tell ourselves, especially as we begin this new world of SFQ (and 3 months or even one year or even the 3 years I have been doing, is still beginning for most of us, and maybe even all of us). It can sometimes feel "wrong" to be feeling our pain or whatever and telling ourselves, "completely healed". Yet, it is so much an important part of SFQ. The message is AS important as the movements, breathing and sound.

So just tell yourself it is happening and then just listen to the sounds of the meditation and do the best you can. I too have had resistance or a feeling of "is this happening?" at first and even sometimes still. So, I basically just would think of that part of the body when it came around. I would begin with lower tan tien and just think of it and then let it go. Then I would think of the bladder and let it go. And then just think of the bottom of the torso and let it go, etc. When you think of your big left toe, energy is going there whether you feel it, see it, hear it or are aware of it in any way. That is just a fact. If you wiggle it, it is obvious, but even if you don't your mind sends a signal to that part of the body. This is scientific fact and not exclusive to qigong.

What is an important part of qigong, is that this principle can work with the movements, sounds, postures, breathing to help us heal, SO if you just think of the part and let the recording play, it is in fact moving! You may not yet feel it, but it is happening.

And if you lose track or find you can not focus, just start from where ever you are or want to be and keep going. Even if you just sit and listen to the sounds, it will have some good effect. It is just better, if you stay with it and do some inner work while the sound is going. You can just imagine the sound is in that part of the body and then move it to the next. Or again, you can just "pretend" to yourself that it is happening. And then let it go and just sit.

As you do this every day for months and months and hours and hours WITH a positive message ("all my anxiety/depression gone. I feel so good"), it like breaking up the ice in a ice-encrusted freezer that you are trying to defrost (or the ice on a car windshield): piece of the ice melt, others break off, sometimes the bigger pieces take more time, but they will give way.

The questions are good. AND tell yourself "this is working". I think for some of us (and I am not saying you, this is just a generalization), there is, I don't know what, a fear? A doubt? Not sure, but something that tells us, "Well, wait a minute! If I deceive myself and then it works, that is not right!" Or "this cannot be working. It does not make sense" Or "it does make sense, but it seems like too far for me to go" Etc etc etc. Sometimes we are aware of these messages and sometimes not.

Either way, whether we no it or not, we still have to tell ourselves the healing message, even if we do not believe it (yet!).

But this is not "deception". It is just changing the message to add a little more "heat" to the process of defrosting the ice. The movements are one source, the breathing is another, the sounds are another and the MESSAGE that we give ourselves is another and in some ways, the most important.

The message also needs to be one of love, kindness and forgiveness. It needs to be with compassion, and starting with ourselves. We need to be kind and forgive ourselves all along the way.

This not only will work, it IS working right now. And if you keep up the good work and consistent practice that you are already doing (and you really are. Many beginners do not do as much as you are doing), along with these healing messages, it will work even better and faster.

You are healing. Now. Is is happening now.

Thank you for helping us learn this and for giving us the opportunity to help you heal yourself.

I look forward to sharing progress with you


Great advice uniquesoul, thank you.

There is a lot of advice here that could work for many people and some that might not be as effective as others.

I think that helping a family with a cancer struggle would make me more depressed than better, but that's just me. Having gone through that already with my wife. That struggle is the source of my anxiety.

I recently saw a short video about beginning yoga describing the benefit of continued practice. It gave the example of a glass filled with water. Then it showed a dropper filled with blue ink dropping a single drop of the ink into the glass, no difference in the color of the water. Then it showed what the glass looked like after a week and then a month and then a year. By that time the water was pretty blue.
This shows how in our early effort we don't or hardly see any changes, then after a short while we begin to see a slight change then after we a see real changes etc.. This example can be used for almost anything, like qigong.

My advice for those who begin qigong, yoga, exercise whatever it is, that it's not a means to an end, it is now a part of your daily life forever.


JEFF
Nice, Jeff! I like that a lot. Helps me!

There is a great story, a true story, in the biography of Joseph L. Greenstein, aka "The Mighty Atom", a vaudville strongman who through mystical meditation (Kabbalah--he was an orthodox Jew), a kind of Japanese qigong he learned in a juijitsu school in Japan (he was still on a wrestling circuit in these early days in the 1910's), and breathing and mind discipline practices he learned as a young man, became almost a superhuman. He could literally bend steel with his bare hands and bite chains and nails and break them with his teeth! His hair could not be cut with regular scissors. THe book was written by the writer/producer Ed Spielman (he produced and wrote the TV show KUNG FU, among others. The book is unfortunately out of print and goes for big books from booksellers. Great, inspiring book though!).

He was born a premature baby in the 1890's. The doctors told his parents that he would die soon. He did survive, but only as a very sickly child and in his teens, it was clear that he would not live much longer. His father died from the same genetic asthma condition in his 30's.

He met a a circus wrestler, Champion Volanko, who took him under his wing and began to train him.

The first day, he made him get up before dawn, in the cold of a Russian winter, in the snow and began to teach him how to "breathe". How to really use breathing to strengthen his entire system. VOlanko himself was told that he would die as a child, but learned breathing and the power of the mind and became a kind of "superhuman".

Little Joseph could barely get the breath in his lungs, but finally he did a few of the breaths "correctly", expanding his arms as he inhaled and bringing them together as he exhaled (what does that sound like? ;\) ) filling his lungs with air and his body with energy.

Volanko said, "Good!"

Little Joseph (he was called the Mighty Atom, because he was 5 feet tall), asked, "How long do I have to do this?"

Volanko answered:

"For the rest of your life, little one."

Well, he did do this for the rest of his life. Among other qigong practices (although he did not call them that). He lived to be in his 80's, still bending steel bars on his chest, breaking iron horseshoes with his bare hands and biting chains with his teeth in the 1970's when Ed Spielman saw him at a martial arts exhibition in Madison Square Garden in NYC and then was inspired to write his life story. His disciple Larry "Slim the Hammer Man" Farman, is still alive living in Pennsylvania, still doing leverage lifting of 25 and 30lb hammers and axes over his head by the ends of the handles in his 70's.

So, Jeff is right. This is not about 3 months or 3 years. This is about the rest of our lives. However,I am sure it is helping you heal and it will help more. Just keep adding the little drops of blue ink. \:\) And at a certain point, you will find that you will indeed feel better and want to help others with this wonderful treasure.

Thanks, Jeff.

 Originally Posted By: JeffreyC

I recently saw a short video about beginning yoga describing the benefit of continued practice. It gave the example of a glass filled with water. Then it showed a dropper filled with blue ink dropping a single drop of the ink into the glass, no difference in the color of the water. Then it showed what the glass looked like after a week and then a month and then a year. By that time the water was pretty blue.
This shows how in our early effort we don't or hardly see any changes, then after a short while we begin to see a slight change then after we a see real changes etc.. This example can be used for almost anything, like qigong.

My advice for those who begin qigong, yoga, exercise whatever it is, that it's not a means to an end, it is now a part of your daily life forever.
I appreciate the thoughts and ideas, and the forthrightness of those who've shared about their own experience and the time it has taken to see improvments.
How do you know when it is time to drop something that does not seem to be working and may actually not be working and move on? Not every purported healing modality is going to be effective or worthwhile. Life is short and precious. It seems that to stay with something that is not effective for years would be a waste of precious time.
This is a great question. Unfortunately, I am not sure I have as great an answer! ;\)

First of all, it is kind of a "use the Force, Luke!", type of situation. You have to eventually trust your own intuition and your Master's energy. I would ask the Universe at some point before a meditation and see what comes up.

I think that years with no results would be VERY surprising with SFQ, if done diligently. Even a year would shock me. I would say about 300 hours or 6 months with no desired results or good effects might be a litmus test for some people.

Again, although the question is good here, in your own mind, life, words energy, focus not on "what if it does't work?" But rather, on "wow, is so cool that it is working!". Just be open to change and subtle shifts in the energy.\


Depending on someone's problem, they might need more medicine. I know there are different dosages for different body weight, types, intensity of problems etc. For me, when I had a lot of pain, I did even more SFQ. Sometimes for my migraines I would do 4-6 hour days of SFQ at least once a week. It all depends on what one is willing to do and how much time one can afford (but this same energy rule applies to money, insurance, drugs, surgery, acupuncture etc). BTW, sometimes qigong and acupuncture together can be a very powerful combination, especially when it comes to yin/yang imbalances such as depression, bi-polar, anxiety etc. I know it helped me.

ANd to echo other responses, there might be other changes and healing happening before the "desired" goal. Pay attention to ALL things in your body. Not just whatever "the problem" is. If you begin to enjoy your SFQ practice, then your answer might be, "Oh, I would do about 50-100 years and then if no improvement, stop! " ;\)
What has helped me with my anxiety was more than SFQ alone. I used many different approaches at the same time.

For example:

Meditation
NLP
Hypnosis
Herbs
Cardio Exercises
Weight training
Hatha Yoga
and SFQ

all of these I do regularly still.

I was prescribed medicine from my doctor but it made me feel sick. So I stopped and was determined to find a natural method or methods.

I feel free from anxiety 90% of the time. I'm still working on it. I occasionally have issues but hey, I'm not Buddha here!

I would suggest doing different approaches and not just one thing.


JEFF
I recently started taking schizandra in liquid form for anxiety. It has helped me considerably.

I believe a combination of methods of different types is probably most likely to succeed. I regularly use the Paraliminals.
Thanks. I appreciate your thoughtful responses and sharing of your own experience. It is helpful to note the ways in which SFQ and other healing modalities have benefitted you.
It's not the methods by themselves. It's the action of DOING them.

The problem people who are depressed have is they know what to do but lack the motivation to do it. It is much easier to lay in bed, watch tv, eat and do things that get your mind off the situation but no REAL lasting change occurs.

Sometimes it has to get really bad before they get up and fight the feelings of resistance and pessimism. I know first hand.

All of the "techniques" that SFQ people have suggested here and many many other things will work if anxious and depressed people would keep trying and stick to it.


A shift needs to happen in ones mind, a belief that it IS possible to overcome and change for the better.

The world is an illusion and our thoughts are illusions based on illusions. If this is the case we might as well PICK our reality.


JEFF

It doesn't sound like you read my original post. I DO spring forest qigong every day and have been DOING it every day for several months now. I also exercise regularly, meditate, give heartfelt service ... I have tried many different kinds of emotional release work, spiritual work, and many other things to deal with the depression. I've been "sticking to it" for about 20 years now. I don't watch TV, i don't lay around eating or trying to distract myself. It's great that DOING something worked for you. It doesn't work for everybody.
I'm curious to know what it feels like to have your "channels open". Can anyone out there describe that?
I have a suggestion... why not try taking St. John's Wort? I do occasionally when other things don't work. Though I have done breathing of the universe and that took care of it, there are times when supplementation is what you need. Sometimes our bodies need that, I think!
No, I read your posts, I'm just skeptical of anyone who actually does those things mentioned and nothing works. If that's the case you are the first person I have ever heard in that situation.

The only other thing is your belief system. If you are familiar with NLP, it has helped me, there are techniques to change your depressive beliefs. It's important to get to the root cause. NLP can help.

As far as channels being open, I could describe it as a feeling of being energized.
It's one of those thing that we shouldn't be as focused on. "am I doing this right, am I supposed to be feeling this or that?.."

Personally I believe that your condition is beyond the help of a Qigong message board.
Hi,
I would suggest that you allow yourself to emerse deeper within the practice. It is certainly good to discern whether or not something is helping you. That said, too much analysis, or coming into the practice with fixed expectations, or constantly looking for results from a questioning standpoint, doubts, etc., all tend to be a lot of extra mental activity that is not beneficial.
When you are in a qigong exercise or meditation, you are given a focus. Focus is huge. You give the mind something to do that benefits you, as opposed to what normally goes on in our thinking. If you monitored your thoughts over the course of a day, you would find that you get lost in thought, and spend much time recalling past experience, or concerns about possible futures. We don't spend much time in the present, or using our mind to facilitate what we want to manifest in our lives. Any qualified qigong teacher of any valid qigong system, will teach that the mind moves the energy. This is one cornerstone to a qigong practice. Reflect on that. The mind moves the energy.
So, you have this practice of one hour a day. Focus, is not a fixed level of accomplishment. There are degrees of focus, and as you accomplish greater focus, results come from that. So back to this hour a day and applying a degree of focus to qigong.
Aside from sleep time, just looking at the other 14 or 15 hrs a day, your mind is much less directed, randomly focused on things, and often engaged with negatives. One doesn't have to take on all that other than focus time, and replace it with exercise 15 hrs a day. It does help to immerse more in each session and increase the quality of the time spent, relative to leaving the mind out of it, as completely as possible, other than employing it with the given focus. This is a challenge, but also part of the work or exercise that is transformative. Revisiting a qigong focused practice, more than once in a day, is helpful, as it helps make you more aware of that state of focus, versus non focus random thinking. How you feel, how you respond to how you feel with subsequent thinking is worth looking at.
Within your practice experience you mention uncomfortable thoughts that arise. One of the gems of wisdom that Master Lin has shared, is pointing out that self healing can come with discomfort or pain. Also, experiencing some discomfort from a particular exercise, outside of common sense considerations, is that exercise or particular focus, touching the blockage, effecting the blockage. So as Gabby mentioned, rising uncomfortable thoughts is not a bad thing. You could say that you are observing the blockage in a way or seeing that energy, or that extra energy that you want to release. The normal thing that happens, is that people "react" to their own feelings. You don't like it, so your react to it, and go to thinking about not liking it, or whatever.. As these uncomfortable thoughts come up, respond to them with the smile. This is transformative technique/powerful technique, not some namby pamby sweet fake smile. It is a smile turned inward to the heart. You allow the feelings, you are human, and we have these feelings. It is okay to have them. Reaction to these feelings sort of stops them up, or crams them back in, or continues to hold them. Respond to them with self compassion. Allow the feeling to come out or up, smile inwards to your heart, or respond that way. The smile turned inward, if expressed correctly, really transforms the feelings that come up. Again, this is a focus employed in response to something, or a focus/alignment you want to be there for the duration of your session. It is also a technique you can employ as you leave the session and go about your day. Qigong, gives you the tools to transform energy. Everything is energy. Your moments of uncomfortable thoughts are energy. Transform them as opposed to reacting to them. Allow them and melt them with a compassionate loving response from you to you. Some Taoist practioners just use this smile/inner smile as there only meditation, or focus. It is a very transformative element that often gets overlooked. When observing people doing qigong, it seems to be one of the pieces that can easily drop away, or doesn't really get put in place, to start with. As far as depression goes, fully employing this inner smile is an important piece. Don't think, don't analyze, smile inward.
Shakurav also brings up very important basics. Focus, as well as the message or signals. Changing the message is also an inner response, qigong techinque, that is transformative. If you are experiencing a negative, change the message. This can be within the practice, or approaching the practice, or any time during the day. There is a huge difference in the energy of entering your practice questioning its effectiveness, or reinforcing it. In simple terms it is the power of positive thinking. If you are going to think, think positive. Again, it is good to connect the dots between this, and the fact that the mind moves the energy.
The good, better, best measure of practice is a positive way to view any level of engagement with SFQ. It is a cup half full way of looking at it. My experience has been that two hours is a good "best" benchmark. We are taught that it takes 28 minutes for qi to make a complete cycle. Taoists referring to this as a season. Four seasons make a complete year. I have found much value in this measure. A half hour has a good reference to a level of completion. Two hours has a very good reference to a level of completion. At times when I am very focused on my qigong practice, two hrs is not long. Meditation and active exercise, both have something to offer, as well as feeding each other. Personally, if I had a serious blockage, I would spend more than two hrs a day. Not everyone can do this, or has interest in this. Any small positive is of value, a moment or an hour. Good, better, best. If you can see your way to do more, do more. You get back whatever you put in. More is better. Improve the quality of the time that you can spend. Work on your focus within the exercise, as well as the inner smile , as a way to respond to feelings that come up. mOre qigong wisdom. 'Keep the energy moving' by allowing these thoughts to come up. " Transform" the energy with self love, self compassion, forgiveness, the inner smile.
Depression is related to the lung system. This doesn't mean you have a lung blockage. It means that depression wears on that part of you. Obviously, the heart is also important. Doing your exercise in fresh air,,,a stand of pine trees perhaps, the warmth of the sun, opening up to the balanced energy in nature and breathing that in.
I don't know if you are doing level I or II. Learn both. In level II you work in the middle dan tien. It is a different experience to base in the middle dan tien, versus the lower dan tien. Both have their particular benefits.
Keep in mind that qigong is a stellar preventative practice. So many people that are new to qigong, come with their diagnosed issues or blockages, and work from that, as opposed to considering that they are made of more than the existing blockage, and good work is being done relative to the whole of you, regardless of self percieved results directly related to a specific within the whole.
One last important piece I'd like to reinforce is working with spiritual energy. The master's energy. People vary in how they work with this piece, or their comfort level with it. There is universal/physical energy, and spiritual/light energy/qi.
I have never been buried in depression, but I've experienced it, as well as anxiety. I always put out a prayer or communication for help, if I feel it coming. Part of me doesn't want to do anything, but before I let that dominate, I put out the prayer.
I always experienced help come at some point, in response to that, and been fully aware that I left an opening, that helped.
I would feel my spirit strengthen at some point, and that would give me the strength to come out of the funk, or choose to. At that moment, I would also remember the prayer I put out, and experience a beautiful moment of acknowledgement and thanks. The beauty of leaving the opening, and 'something', helping me back. I can't say enough about the spiritual piece.
Look at the whole of your day as it unfolds, and discern what is supporting what you want to manifest, and what isn't.
love, gallen
gallen,
I appreciate you taking the time to share these suggestions. I did feel encouraged and heartened by the thoughtful response. I've read and re-read and I'll work with them as I can.
thanks.
thanks for the suggestion scooter. i tried st. johns wort once and didn't experience results at that time. it's hard to know with anything i tried whether i did it long enough or in large enough amounts or whatever. it's good to know that small universe breathing worked for you.
thanks jeffreyc and others for your comments. i find your personal experiences the most interesting.
I used schizandra in liquid form to help with mood control and making me feel less relaxed. I took it twice a day (4 ml each). I found it very beneficial.
For what it's worth, and merely as a suggestion:

Herbs are forms of medicine, just like pharmaceuticals. Although, more natural, that does not always make them less intense, or less counter-indicated. We are all unique (not only in soul, but also in body!).

Schizandra is indeed a tonic herb, used a lot in Chinese Traditional Medicine. Tonics are more like food, in that they usually (and I emphasize that word) can be used by anyone in almost any quantity (within reason, of course! You can even have too much water! \:o ).

Having said that, I know from experience that, tonics, say ginseng, for example, is NOT right for everyone. It depends on that person's yin yang balance/imbalance and also on the time of year, the source of the herb, etc etc etc.

For what it's worth, I highly recommend people NOT to give herbal suggestions on this board without knowing the person they are giving it to and without being a professional herbal doctor/healer. Basically, not to do it all, because even if you know them AND know what you are doing, other people might take a suggestion that is not a good idea.

I go to a TCM doctor and she told me that due to my particular issues,right now ginseng would be TERRIBLE for me right now. I know she is right, because I could feel it.

[homeopathy is a bit different, BTW, though still probably better to find a pro, because it has the "do no harm" thing built more right into it. Regular herbs, that are not diluted down past the gross material being able to be detected, can indeed be just as strong or affecting to the body as drugs!]

Having said all of that, the fact that it came up here on this topic is good (and there is always "better" & "best"). Because it allows me to make the suggestion for makemerry to find a good TCM doctor in his/her area. This can be a task in and of itself, but finding someone you trust who has one can be a good method.

A good TCM doctor, should take at least a half hour to an hour on the initial visit, NOT counting any time before the visit filling out a profile. They should take multiple pulses, use smells, looking at the tongue, etc, and looking at the whole person, not the symptoms.

They should not only use acupuncture or herbs, but should at least use both and maybe have other modalities as well (such as at least recommending either qigong or martial arts, such as Tai Chi to help as well).

I do believe that herbs when used correctly can help. But not through a message board forum.

What I think we can best do here is focus on SFQ either with our experiences, practice tips, motivational stories, and support.

That is the main point here.

When in doubt, leave it out.

Anyway, not meant to criticize, rather, grateful this came up and allows us an opportunity to focus even more on our practice and healing.

Makemerry, I will add you to my own healing list for practicing some distance healing (level III) on you, if that's okay with you.

Meanwhile, I echo gallen's outstanding post: focus on the healing that is indeed happening. Do more if you can... even a few minutes more can help more. And more sessions a day, again even if only a few minutes sends powerful messages to your body, mind and spirit that you care and are making a change. Know that you are not your symptoms and they can never sum you up. And that while you are healing, you are healing way more than just depression. That mere symptom, may take more time to disperse, but meanwhile, you are certainly healing OTHER things in your body on many levels. THis is all what gallen said and it is real wisdom! This is valuable stuff! \:\)

Let me know a good day and all you have to do, is just be receptive to it!

Happy New Year!
Shakurav,
I think you have a valid point about not making recommendations on here. I wrote what it helped me. It is up to reader to follow matters up and decide whether to take on the responsibility to buy a product and use it, see a practitioner of his/her trust and follow the advice received, or just simply do nothing.

My story about the schizandra is that a good friend of mine told me that there was a general recommendation about it on a newspaper. I followed it up and bought it. BEFORE I took it I saw my acupuncturist/Mora machine specialist, a person I have successfully and regularly used for 8 years. She tested the schizandra for me on the Mora machine. The response was not favourable. Anyway, I made my own decision (NB anybody can legally heal him/herself!) and took the schizandra. I found it very beneficial. I still see the acupuncturist and respect her. I tend to be happy with the Mora machine treatment, but it is no more than a machine.

I cannot say that the schizandra alone helped me to feel much better emotionally and less angry since I take a homeopathic remedy for it at the same time, as well as supplements of my choice. I do Holosync daily, am currently doing releasing through Ho'oponopono, listen to Paraliminals a few times a week and am working on Natural Brilliance at the moment. It is important to me that I feel better and reap benefits from what I do.

Over 30 years ago through macrobiotics I learnt about self-empowerment related to my health. I do believe in it and practice it. I do welcome suggestions from anybody, expert or layman. I am thankful for the kindness of a person sharing his/her knowledge. In the end I make my own decision and happily live with it. I do not say that everybody should share my views. However, as long as the moderators of this site accept my postings, I will keep writing what I believe is best from my point of view.
So there! ;\)

Sorry, couldn't help it!

No, that makes sense. As long as we can write whatever we want, and it helps us, perhaps we should write it.

And I am glad you wrote it, and thank you for doing so (and your clarification) so that I could add my caveat (and clarification) , which also helps me and who knows, just as YOUR suggestion might help someone, mine might also help someone else who taking such an herb (which though natural contains potent chemicals that can also do harm in some cases) might harm, and reading my caution might think twice and not do it.

So they are yin and yang. And as you say, as long as Shawn allows us the freedom, we can do this back and forth as we feel like (with the intention to help of course).

I just think (for what it's worth, and of course you and others are welcome to disagree with me, as I think you will), that such advice is better kept private as a PM, rather than global message where it might do harm. I think makemerry's question, which is about SFQ, might be better kept to SFQ. There is not "bad" here. There is just "good, better, best" and I may indeed be wrong as to what is better.

It just feels to me that if something helped you and might help someone else, there is less potential harm to keeping it private, rather than making it global.

There are two moderators operating here: the one assigned and ourselves. Just because we CAN say something without censor, does not mean that it is the best thing to do.

Again, I could be wrong, but it is worth at least this little exchange we have had to help people better, as you say, decide for themselves. I vote and encourage people to definitely take charge of their own health, and do so with caution, in the sense of "this worked for me, but YMMV".

Meanwhile, without any moderator assistance, and to try and bring this back on topic:
makemerry, how is your SFQ practice helping you in general? Based on gallen's wisdom and observations, are you feeling better in ANY area of your life?

Is there anyone else out there besides we who have chimed in here, who have been helped using SFQ in their depression or related yin/yang imbalances?

I know that in addition to my anxiety issues, I also sometimes suffer from at least acute depression and once was on depression medication. I also know that when I do extra SFQ (say instead of doing my usual hour, I do two), I often feel a significant change similar to what happened when I was on Paxil (in terms of feeling better) but without the side effects.

Again, I make the same caution here: YMMV, and in general, it is good to at least consult your doctor before changing dosages or weaning off of medication (some medications really need the weaning and even if it you do need to lower or eliminate, the doctor can help).

I still sometimes get low-grade depression that can (if I let it) impair my work and relationships. On those days, I often take a "sick" day of extra SFQ (sometimes even more than 3 or 4 hours) and 9 times out of ten, it works.

So, I am wondering if anyone else has had that experience with SFQ itself.
Shakurav,
I agree that our exchange of postings will hopefully help forum members to decide what's best for them.

I believe that people sometimes can be stuck with little progress by just trying to overcome anxiety, depression, etc. using spiritual techniques. Since I am not a believer in any form of prescription drugs, I have resorted to herbal and homeopathic remedies, all of which have helped me. I am also extremely sceptical about how Western medicine diagnoses psychiatric/psychological illnesses. I have practical experience on the patient side with doctors, but have also read sections of relevant books which they use. I can say that I do not see how doctors can cure patients with their pills, as opposed to people trying to work out their own problems and start helping themselves in some ways. This may consist in attempting some techniques, like SFC, Paraliminals, Sonic Access, etc or products from other companies. There is a phenomenal amount of knowledge about anything on the web. It is a matter of willingness to spend the time and learn. Personally I prefer to make my own mistakes rather than paying somebody high fees to get bad advice. I do not expect others to do what I do though. We are all free to decide how to solve our problems.
Hi again,
When I make a post, I make my best effort to offer help within the context of SFQ. It is good to lead by example. I learned that from Master Lin in a small but awkward encounter I had with him, where I was criticizing something. The lesson was more or less, set the example, don't criticize. I am not saying this in reaction to anything said here. It is just an opportunity to share something I found to be very useful within qigong wisdom ala Master Lin's level of example.
The more experience you have with qigong, the more you can offer in that context. I find that qigong lacks nothing and includes everything. Currently, I have been drinking some white mulberry leaf tea. I was attacted to it for many reasons, both academic and spiritually driven. I never drink it without clearing it, like with sword fingers, or infusing it with my intention, or having my master's energy bless it. Again, I just take the opportunity here to put an aspect of herb use within the context of qigong. I also thank the plant itself, and the source of the plant, as well as the water . There are elementals within the mix, that have both physical and spiritual presence. In regards to engaging with herbs or medicines, aside from the discernment as to whether or not they are good for you or not, 'if' you are utilizing them, don't leave the qigong out of that equation. We know that we can transform energy. I recall again another example of Master Lin effecting a bottle of wine to effect the alcohol content, as not to effect him, or altering water to taste sweet or salty, etc.
There is also the unaware intention we may project into something, that empowers it to work for us. Lots of possible variables in play.
Also, don't discount the effectiveness of yin/yang water. From one simple standpoint, it is simply warm and good for the tummy/lower dan tien. It isn't caffeinated, it is calming. From another perspective, you can make it medicine, infusing it with what you require. The potential is there, to create or receive what you require. It is relative to one's ability, and practice makes perfect, strong focus manifests effectively. Whether you are comfortable with these concepts or not, if you have interest in qigong, utilize it along with any herbs you take. Bring the herb, into the practice. Leaving qigong technique aside and just engaging with an herb as an alternative to qigong, is not as good.
love,
gallen
All good points, gallen and well taken. I thank you for all of the above.

And in regards to uniquesoul's points about MD's etc, I too, have some healthy (pun intended) skepticism when it comes to mainstream Western allopathic medicine. I also know that many people swear by it. I just like to err on the side of caution when in public.

Still, sometimes my potential error may be worse than just going for it and sharing whatever works for me with whomever might benefit.

I like gallen's take on this though: even IF we integrate herbs or whatever, it sounds helpful to bring that into the SFQ practice using yin/yang water (to make herbal tea, as per gallen's example above), and for those who use the Level III "message water" practice, to put a "message" (or "information" as it is also called in other qigong schools and texts) in it. Thereby making even more effective and (as in homeopathy, or Bach Flower medicine schools) possibly even mitigating any potential side effects or whatever.

Since everything is energy, even herbs (and other forms of medicine, as well), by sending a message in conjunction with the medicine, it seems to me (and I had not really thought of this before gallen's post above, which is why I really love this forum: I learn so much here!), you can help make the medicine (no matter the source) MORE effective with less side effects.

A very cool idea!

So, again thanks to gallen and also uniquesoul for providing their perspectives in an important and interesting discussion.


I fully agree that a spiritual connection with the herbs, medicines, food, etc you take is excellent. Whether you do it through SFQ or any other modality is a decision of the person doing it. I would just find it very hard to do this with synthetic drugs, even if I can understand that the intention of those inventing it and manufacturing it could be noble.
We agree. ;\) I am not a big fan of modern medicine. Yet it has its value and can help people as Master Lin has said. Also has its side effects. And I, like you and many others prefer more holistic approaches.

And that is why I came to SFQ, as I suspect many of us did. Which brings us back once again to the main topic of SFQ and depression...

Anyone else have some interesting stories about how SFQ helped them with depression (or anxiety, bi-polar or any other related yin-yang imbalances?

You can help a lot of people by sharing this, so please don't be shy.
I do believe the greatest value of Western medicine is into rescuing people who had serious accidents. Some of the operations are staggering and save lives. For the rest, SFQ and other spiritual methods combined with exercise will speed up the recovery and help in the self-healing capacity of the human body.

I believe that for panic attacks the simple massage of the collarbone point as in EFT, TFT, EP, etc is valuable.

I am fascinated by the technology which measures the energy field like Harry Oldfield does (http://www.electrocrystal.com/). I do not think the interpretation of the output is that simple though.
The perspective in general on medicine, in regards to one's qigong practice, is that sometimes medicine is necessary to take in, and it is best to filter it, or bless it, however you choose to see or do that, synthetic or natural. At the same time, you are engaged with a transformative practice that can result in gradually not requiring the medicine, or requiring a lesser dose.
That piece is all relative to one's level practice, the particular medicines, and state of being.
If one has to take synthetic drugs, it is best to not have an 'additional' negative emotional reaction to having to take the drug, and be more impartial about it, filter it , and focus on the selfhealing side and one's transformation to health and not requiring the drug. As Master Lin has taught in regards to blockages, that extra energy isn't good or bad, but rather just extra energy, or energy you don't need, or energy out of place.
In relation to good food or natural herbs, there can be a nice spiritual/physical connection to acknowledge, or fortify. With less natural or powerful synthetics, or something like chemo therapy, it is good, as I say, to be impartial, and focus on one's practice and healing, and filter out what doesn't support that. Not wanting to engage with synthetics or powerful drugs is certainly a reasonble position to take. In the event that you have to, it is best to not hold negative feelings about it, and focus on healing, as completely as possible, and keep any additional distraction or negatives out of the mix.
Emotions are energy and can get into the mix too. Food prepared by a happy chef is better than food prepared by an angry one. This all aside from the actual food itself.
Also, one's practice can lead you somewhere in regards to engaging with things one might consider as outside a qigong practice, whether that is really the case or not.
My apologies to the forum and Merrymaker for the shift in focus from depression.
Shakurav, thank you for the good reviews! I would want to clarify that wisdom simply 'is', and it certainly isn't mine!! We all come to it, and can experience through practicing qigong.
love,
gallen
Amen to all of that Brother Gallen! ;\)
Aloha,

When we post a reply to someone's question or request for assistance, we each respond in the best way we know how. That is where discernment comes in, and the reader needs to realize that post can come from students with less, as much, or more experience than himself.

Breath,
Read,
Appreciate the contribution,
Receive what resonates with you,
Leave that which doesn't.

That goes for a post by someone who signed up yesterday, someone like Gallen who's contributed for a number of years, or a moderator saying "Chunyi said ______" ;\)

We each post for reasons we are aware of, and those we may not be aware of. The focus or intent of the board is for the community of SFQ practitioners to share their experiences, stories, and questions regarding their practice and experiences with the work.

Guidance and moderation can come in many forms. Like in healing work, sometimes it's in letting the group naturally "balance" itself, or assidting this by resending the message/intent/signal. There are times when surgury of Western medicine is required, infused with a healing message. Most can be taken care of with the earlier, and some rare occasion warrant a little "EMT" assistance.

There are many ways to cook a potatoes. Rather than bring in the numerous modalities, tinctures, homeopathic, machines, and procedures here that our members have encountered, the focus is Spring Forest Qigong's and philosophy, techniques, meditations.

As Gallen mentioned previously, look at what SFQ brings to the table to work with, support, or enhance the situation.

Shakurav's suggestion of sending a person a private message regarding other avenues of treatment is valid. There are times I receive emails from members wondering why someone is posting about rolfing or homeopathic on an SFQ focused forum. Their time is limited online, and if they wanted to investigate a massage modality or energetic supplement route, they'd search the net for that. There will be references to different experiences on this Forum as there are in all discussions. Notice that a bunch of the initial replies mentioned that Paralminals, Holosync, yoga etc, assisted in their healing It's when someone's only feedback is focused on supplements, crystals, etc., that they'll need to be focused back on the Forum's intent. That's like a chiropractor bringing his/her table to a 6-day SFQ retreat and doing chiropractic on other participants when it's time to practice the SFQ techniques Chunyi just showed.

(uniquesoul - I think it was repeating the schizandra suggestion, and more so, adding the dosage you took that sent the flags off with Shakurav. At that point it drifted closely into the "Prescriptive Neutral Zone" ;\) )

You'll find some interesting crossovers with other modalities that can help you understand what Chunyi is teaching. You'll see Gallen as an example of this when ever he brings in a martial arts, Native American, or different qigong system example, he'll tie it into a concept Chunyi mentions in relation to the question posted. "Oldfield's Research and Development" was mentioned earlier. Pulling a snippet from his web site...

 Quote:
"I think that ElectroTransplant Therapy can assist in this re-tuning process. We digitally record the melodious sound made by the healthy tissues, and then play this back to those that have gone off-key, to remind them of the correct notes needed for harmony to be re-established. Hopefully, once re-tuned, the choir can, with regular practise, maintain that balance and harmony.

Where possible we try to take signals from the persons themselves. If, for instance, someone has a problem with their left hand, we would take a signal from their right hand if that were transmitting a healthy signal. There may be a situation where it might be beneficial to take a signal from a healthy close relative to help a close family member."


Rather than look for the next cool machine or instrument to be developed, you notice that this is what you are simply doing in the level two healing process.

Understanding comes from experience. Take the time to do the work -for yourself and on others. Level II, III, and IV didn't not come out of Chunyi getting spoon-fed techniques and concepts from his in-person teachers, rather what developed out of his practice and experience with the basics.

this is an enjoyable post - thank you makemerry for starting it, and all who are participating in it and other on the Forum.

A blessed New Years to each of you and yours,

Shawn
Thank you for your input, Shawn. I like your point expressed as:

Breath,
Read,
Appreciate the contribution,
Receive what resonates with you,
Leave that which doesn't.

This is a wonderful philosophy!
I've been keenly interested in healing for the 20 years since my first really severe depression. It appears to me that different healing modalities work for different people and I haven't seen any one thing that works well for everyone. There also seems to be a placebo effect that happens for many people, i.e. the therapy seems to work well in the beginning and good reports abound; eventually, when the ill person's initial hopeful enthusiasm wears off, the benefit is not clear, and the modality is eventually dropped and forgotten.
I'm happy to hear people's suggestions about things that were helpful FROM THEIR OWN EXPERIENCE ... herbs or qigong or whatever. I value the experience of others. I think everyone here keeps the focus primarily on qigong; it doesn't seem to me that it hurts to share experiences with other healing modalities as an aside.
Shakurav, I appreciate your offer of distance healing. Any day is probably a good day. Friday, Jan 9 is a less busy day than others, and a time when I could be more consciously receptive. I had 4 telephone healing sessions from Master Lin, a number he suggested, and didn't notice any change in my general feeling state or awareness.
I have been trying some of Gallen's suggestions, trying to immerse myself deeper in the practice. The suggestion that seems the most helpful so far is the suggestion to notice my thoughts throughout the day and see if they're taking me in the direction I want to go. I've been doing longer qigong sessions, but I haven't figured out how to find 2 hours a day for sessions. It may be that I need to see some improvement from the hour a day I am putting in to devote 2 hours a day. In many of the stories in Master Lin's book, including his own story, the benefits came quickly and without much qigong practice.
I am open to trying and investigating things with open heart and mind. I don't seem to have huge amounts of faith. The only thing that has kept me doing SFQ this long without any apparent result is Master Lin's personal manner and energy, his lack of self-importance, his focus on kindness, love... and the healing stories from his book in which people report their own positive experience with SFQ.
I believe it is your defeatist attitude that is preventing you from success. I know it is difficult and seems impossible. Personally I have suffered for more than twenty years from depression and anxiety and panic attacks. I no longer have them.

You speak about placebo, which is a criticism that I have heard a lot when someone isn't up for looking deeper into Qigong or TCM. How would you explain successful acupuncture on animals? Do the animals think " Hey, these needles are working!" or Qigong on plants?

Until you get SICK of being SICK and TIRED you will NEVER get better. Never. Unless you are fully sick of it. Life will get worse for you until the day you die.

You are not unique or special in your depression. MILLIONS of people are in that boat. Things DO work. Taking action with the proper attitude makes the change when someone truly wants to change.

Some might think I am being too harsh maybe. If I had never experienced deep depression I would agree. There were YEARS I was suicidal. So everyone, please spare me the reprimand.

Qigong, or any other worthy modality will work if you continue, It might take longer than some or less then some.

Focus on unconditional love as you practice the movements. Inhale forgiveness and compassion and exhale sadness, anger and any other negative emotion. Use your imagination to see the extra energy disperse in any form the you like. Butterflies or smoke like Master Lin teaches.
This is great! I am learning so much from this discussion. Thank you again, makemerry for providing us all this opportunity. And thanks to Shawn for the feedback. I understand what you are saying.

A few things...

First a note of clarification:

While it is true that Master Lin's pretty miraculous healing (which much more than the pain and arthritis in his knees was about him losing his depression, anger and fear) did happen "quickly" (the way you phrased it was "including his own story, the benefits came quickly and without much qigong practice"), I think this is a pretty relative term within the context of his story and this "little detail" is crucial to someone who really wants to be healed (me for instance) :

Chunyi Lin was in a soccer stadium full of tens of thousands of people while a very famous qigong master (who is an interesting character in his own rite, who is a featured player in some startling scientific experiments during the qigong re (Chinese for "fever" or "craze" if you want to read a fascinating book about this time and its history in CHina, read QIGONG FEVER by David Palmer) of the the 80's and early 90's), led them in instruction and a SEVEN HOUR MEDITATION! \:o

This was seven hours WITHOUT moving! And no bathroom breaks! I think to really get the impact of what happened, one has to include the context, including, the pain and discomfort that Master Lin went through during that SEVEN hours.

Now, I am certainly not suggesting that anyone doing SFQ here or anywhere needs to do this to help their healing process (although it can work in many cases, where one is really serious--see below).

However, in making my personal breakthrough with my terrible migraines that I suffered through and with for many years, I woke up in the middle of the night (about 2:30 AM) to take a migraine pill, looked at the pill for what seemed like 10 minutes, but was probably only about 2, and then put it back in the closet and told my wife I am not coming back to bed, I am going to lose this migraine without the side effects of that drug (which for about 5 years was my only relief, but I hated the side effects).

I was inspired because I had just met Master Lin for my first time here in SF during a LSC "Triple Fortune" seminar with him, Paul Scheele, and Marie Diamond. He had done a healing on me and there was a group healing, which stopped the migraine that I had had all weekend (without the medicine).

So I stayed up and did SFQ for about FOUR hours! And then I did another 3-5 hours (I lost track at some point during that day (it was a Sunday).

At the end of this marathon session, my migraine was completely gone. Not only that, but from then on (that was just over a year ago now), I have been able to control it and not suffer, so that when the first signs come, I can do about 5 minutes of Small Universe and I am migraine free. The last pill I took was November 2007.

Now, if one measures it in weeks, or days, I guess one could say, I had an "instant healing". But even there, I had been doing SFQ (albeit much less intensely or "religiously" than I now do it) for 2 years before that, as well as other forms of qigong (I actually have been practicing Tai Chi and various forms of qigong for a long time: over 30 years).

I believe now, that had I not done that marathon session and IF (a big if) I could have still been motivated to do my normal 30 minutes to one hour of practice I had been doing back then in 2007 (sometimes, but rarely, doing a two hour total of active and SU), I still probably would have healed my migraines. But it would have taken much longer.

I hear that it is hard to have "huge amounts of faith" while you are suffering. But I go back to my very early comments in this topic thread that you started (and I am grateful that you did, because I have learned
a lot in this process) :

You cannot compare your results to any one else's and everyone is different.

And I can also understand your not wanting to invest a significant amount of time more to the hour you are doing now without results: you probably have, like most of us, a very busy life, with many commitments, and limited time and other resources.

Yet, at some point, not just for you, but for all of us, it comes down to a question, an inner one, that only the individual can answer to and for themselves (i.e. if someone writes it here or tells someone, it does not count for as much as what they tell themselves):

How much do I REALLY want to heal?

Really? Do I really? Or am I holding onto something, a belief system, a past trauma, maybe even something from so long ago, I do not even remember what it is anymore? Or do I want to make bargains?

Not for you (if the shoe does not fit, please don't even try it on. It's mine! My shoe! Mine! Don't touch it! Don't even look at it! ;\) ) but I know for me, I often make bargains, am not willing to let go of some things and am not willing to go to whatever nth degree (which for many people is usually going to a doctor, or having to deal with more drastic procedures than 7 hours of SFQ) I need to do to let it go and move on.

Now even here (i.e. based on my story or Master Lin's) there are no guarantees.
So you could do my seven plus hour marathon (or your own variation thereof), even multiple times and it is possible that you would experience nothing significant.

However, it is very unlikely. And again, not telling you to do what I did or anything like it. I am not even suggesting you do this.

More in the spirit of: I am sharing what worked for me and then allowing the readers to decide for themselves, as has been stated so clearly by others in this very thread.

For me, the weight of the migraine broke a kind of "tie game" that was happening for me and I just committed myself to doing this UNTIL it worked. Period.

That is a different way of approaching it than testing it and if it works, I keep doing it and if not, I stop doing (with that signal of stopping as a part of the signal or message I send).

Now, of course, that was one your questions early on here in the thread: how long do I keep doing this before I stop doing it because it doesn't work?

I am not sure if you can see how powerful that question is in terms of your healing.

It is a good question. However, even if I were to ask it, I would rephrase it as not, how long do I do something before I stop doing if it doesn't work (which carries a HUGE message and signal to all parts of self). But rather, how long will it take until it does work?

And I would let the answer be at the end, rather than the beginning. In other words, I would put the question off until MUCH later (like a year at least...or a seven hour marathon! ;\) ).

Is very effective and very powerful. It works stronger and quicker than many other forms of qigong, in my experience.

However, the results vary, because it is very much based on levels of being that are more complex than the mere physical body. And since I am not you, nor is anyone else, only some part of you knows the answer to "how long do I have to do this before it will work?"

For me, it is not really a question of having "huge amounts of faith" (at least up front). I am more of a mystic and the mystic, unlike a "orthodox" believer, says " I will try this experiment that has been repeated by others before me, and when it works, then and only then will I believe.

But part of the experiment here in SFQ is in fact, the "signal" or "message" we give ourselves.

And as a mystic, I have to immerse myself in the experiment. In this experiment, the rules are somewhat different than in a chemical experiment or a physics experiment or a financial investment experiment.

There is a strong subjective element that is in fact, an important part of the healing. Commitment is key. In many forms of qigong, they teach that one should commit to 300 hours or a year, which ever comes first (I had a teacher who used that benchmark). I think even that is more of a metaphor than a necessary detail. It is more like "I am committed to this UNTIL it works and that may take a year or years" (and for me, this is a no-brainer or was. It was not "how long do I do this before the migraine goes away, but much stronger for me at that point, was "how long have I had this damn migraine anyway?!?" In other words, for me, there, it was almost like a recovering alcoholic, who finally hits bottom and goes through AA because nothing else has worked and they want to recover. The "weight" of the migraine was MUCH heavier than the "weight of how long do I have to practice". I was just so fed up with the pain and discomfort and dysfunction it caused that, I committed to doing SFQ for how ever many hours it took to make it work. And it did! And I still do that all the time now. If I begin to experience dis-ease or dis-comfort, I commit myself to more practice, just as some people commit themselves to an antibiotic protocol or whatever. This is not a perfect analogy, because there are side-effects to allopathic medicine and anything that has chemicals in it. There are few side-effects to SFQ. Except maybe enlightenment eventually! ;\) )

SFQ will work, if you use that element of "signal" or "message" or "faith" or not. But it might (and probably will) take even longer, in that case. And then if one is asking it in the form of "when do I get to stop this if the results do not measure up to either my own expectations or the results that others have got" then based on my experience of how people practice these things, the odds are it will not work. Because you will stop way before you get to that much longer time without the stronger signal.

Now I am NOT saying that you are not using a good message.

I am only saying that your question and your point about the so-called "placebo effect" is very significant. Dr. Andrew Weil points out time and time again, that the label of "placebo effect" has been one of THE MOST DESTRUCTIVE THINGS IN MEDICINE! He explains that the very dismissal of this by modern Western medicine, is in fact, one of the worst things about Western medicine! If the first principle from Hippocrates, is "do no harm", what you really want is the so-called "placebo effect"! That will do less harm than the side-effects of the medicine, surgery or other invasive procedures. Dr. Weil points out that (in his words) "we should be aiming for that effect. It would do less harm and if it works, it works!

And labeling it the way it has been labeled and thinking that it is less important than say a chemical effect, is precisely the OPPOSITE of how medicine should work!

We call it something else in qigong circles: it is called either "information" or "message" or "signal" healing.

I am also suggesting based on the topic, the name of the forum etc, that something that has been tried within the context of SFQ is using an even "higher dose" of this "medicine" (in the sense that the Native Americans use the word).

Higher in terms of either time or message or both.

We in the modern or post-modern world, are loathe to be "intellectually dishonest". So the idea of "lying" in terms of something that needs to be "a fact" (or not), is hard for us to understand.

And yet, that is the key to most healing, in terms of modalities of this.

What I mean, is something similar to what Chunyi Lin has said, "Visualize. If you can't visualize, pretend that you are doing so. If you can't do that, 'LIE'!" ;\)

I am not suggesting you do that here in writing. I am writing this to help you, not to get you to show me or anyone else how you agree with me or whatever.

I am suggesting that what has worked for many people in terms of the kind of "instant" healing that you are looking for, is to say over and over and over again (even if you have to "lie" to yourself about it! It isn't really a "lie". At least it may not be. It is more a kind of a Schrödinger's Cat experiment. You won't know if it is a "lie" or not until you really do it) something along the lines of :

"I am healing. My depression is gone, I am completely healed. All my channels are open, open, open, I am completely healed. I feel so good".

Say it a lot to yourself, throughout the day. Celebrate how much the SFQ is indeed working. You may feel stupid or dishonest sometimes for saying or thinking this, if part of you "knows" or "believes" it is not so.

But on some level it will be so, and if you do it enough along with the practice of the active exercise and the SU, you will experience it.

Along with this, it is good that you are doing longer qigong sessions. That is very good. And just keep pushing it by a few minutes each time. It is similar to resistance training (in fact, it IS resistance training. It is just a different kind of "resistance"! ;\) )

And play with it. Try on some of your one hour sessions, doing only one or two or three exercises, and NOT doing the entire set. Try just one sometimes. Sometimes for some persistent long term blockages, really sinking into just one movement for a long time, can be more powerful than doing 7 or 8.

If you can't do a 2 hour session in your now one hour session, just let that go for now and try doing a half hour sometime in the middle of the day and one more half hour sometime before sleep. If you are already doing your one hour either midday or at night, try bringing in just a half hour (or even 10 minutes) in the morning.

And the same for the other "session", If you can't actually do two hours total for a day, just do the hour you are doing, and add another 5-10 minutes twice during the day.

Three times a day is best (one time is good, twice a day is better). It sends the body and mind a very strong message: "I love you. You are so worth it to me. I am investing these repeated intervals of time, not only every day, but multiple times each day because I love you".

Small Universe is critical to SFQ working. It is good without it, but it is MUCH better with it. But I know that resistance comes up a lot in relationship to SU (at least it does/did for me), especially at early stages in one's practice.

So the same thing there. Try NOT doing the entire half hour, if you are experiencing too much resistance or difficulty. Once in awhile, try doing 10-15 minutes and then rub your hands, rub your face massage your ears and you're done with SU for that day. Try it. If you can, try adding this to some other part of your day when you already have done the full 27 minutes on the audio that is even better.

Remember, as Shawn, gallen and others have said, you do not have to be with Master Lin's rhythm. You can just use that as a basic guide and/or background. Or you can just use music. Or silence. I use all of the above depending on time and how I feel.

Visualize the depression as something tangible, such as the golden butterflies that Master Lin uses a lot these days (I like that imagery a lot myself). Master Lin sent out a very nice short (15 minute) meditation that has helped me with some small, acute depression issues related to events recently, where he uses this same imagery. If you want, you can PM me and give me your e-mail, or I can PM you mine and then you can e-mail me and I will forward this great little meditation.

And then once you have the image of the depression being something really physical like butterflies or gas, or smoke or dragons or birds or whatever, then visualize it leaving your body. Do this for each SFQ exercise session you do at the beginning and maybe for "Breathing of the Universe" and/or "7 Steps to New Life"

Do this, whether you add more reps of SFQ practice a day or not (but doing both is better).

And even if you can't do two hour session, or a marathon session like I did (or Master Lin had when he had his "breakthrough"), just set an intention that some day, if you have to, you will. Tell yourself, that you will build up to it.

And question yourself, regarding gallen's point and my echoing it: search or scan your body and mind. Is there ANY part of you, any at all, that has healed or is healing? Any pain, that is less or gone. Any congestion or discomfort that is either lessened (or even worse, because sometimes, quite often, that is a sign that healing indeed happening. It means that energy is moving. Same with any NEW symptoms. That can be a very good sign!) ? In other words, just for a few minutes, put the depression or its symptoms aside and look at your whole being. Is there anything in you that is moving with this practice? If the answer is yes, let that be the beginning of more faith. Not for us here on the forum, but for you. And perhaps for others that you will help later.

Picture yourself in a boat on a river, with tangerine trees and mar...


Wait, a minute, wrong song!

;\)

What I meant was, picture yourself, helping someone else who is depressed. Maybe even in this forum some day, or in your life. Someone who might say to you, "Look, I have been doing this for months now, and I am not sure it is going to work".

And then you can tell them your success story, inspire them to keep going and think how good it will feel when they too have a healing! \:\)

That can be a very strong focus and message. It gives you a script, a goal, helping someone else, a whole bunch of great stuff.

And finally, I will do a distance healing on you on Friday. Thank you for letting me "practice"! I am still learning Level 3 skills and distance detecting and healing is one of those that takes a lot of practice. So I truly am grateful every time I get an opportunity and some actually gives me some feedback. Please do so, and do it by sending me a PM.

Much healing to you, makemerry. I know that you are experiencing it on some level and I know that if you stay consistent, no matter what, you will become more aware of that healing in your present.
Shawn, thanks for your post. I liked the guidance on how to view a post. Helped me as a post/er!

makemerry,
You can't have or not have faith when you are holding a focus, or experiencing emptiness. You have to come away from a focus, or out of emptiness to realize faith or not having faith. Same for pain. When we are doing qigong and accomplish a focus, or, reach emptiness, we are in the 'best state' relative to self healing, regeneration, or transformation. Stick with one hour if it works better for you. Focus on the quality of the time you spend.

Consider doing a retreat. Self designed, at home, or attending one. It is a concentrated time set aside to do qigong, not a seemingly long commitment to two hrs a day. You can experience a more intensive practice for a short time period. Fasting can be part of that, or partial, or just healthy food, less food..
My most transformative times have been in retreat.

Listening casually to some of mantra CD's is easy to add in.
You don't have to be Buddhist to benefit. They help purify spirit, connect to the heart. Just as background music or falling asleep to...
Focused time in a healing or transformative focus, is other than the experience of depression. That time spent doesn't support depression.
I hope you continue with your SFQ practice, and I wish you the best with it.
love,
gallen
Aloha,

I don't know if this is the mediation Shakurav was referring too, but we're offering an optional download site for Chunyi's free gift "Open your heart-Change your world" meditation.

Here is the note that went out with it:

 Quote:
Hello Friends:

Many of us are impacted by the troubles in our world as this year draws to a close and are looking for better ways to cope with the challenges in the coming year – be they economic, emotional, physical or spiritual.

At Spring Forest Qigong, we wondered what we could do to help. We decided to create a special healing meditation by Master Chunyi Lin as our gift to you and to others this holiday season. It’s our hope that this free 15 minute meditation might be useful to many.

This podcast is our gift to everyone. All you need do is download and listen. After listening we hope you will want to share it with everyone you know.

Imagine what would happen if 1,000, or 1 million, or 1 billion people practiced this simple, openhearted exercise every day. We would change our world!

In peace,

Your Spring Forest Friends


You can get to the download page by clicking here.

Much Love,

Shawn
That is indeed the very one! It is wonderful, Everyone I have played it for in my practice groups have loved it and wanted copies.

Highly recommended: thanks Shawn!
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