Hello all, Nacho here again with yet another question I hope someone can answer. Lately, I've learned to incorporate the stretching exercises from Level 2 into my everday activities much like my SFQ exercises, which I do everyday from 11am to 1pm. My question is if there are any special time/s to practice my exercises - before Qigong, after Qigong, morning, afternoon...? Thanks in advance for any of your input, I'm hoping to get my Full Lotus perfected sometime within the next 3 months.

I'm curious at to what other's experience is. Personally, I've always had limited success with increasing my flexibility. I'll put that down to a lack of consistency.

As a general note, I've found that I get my best stretching results when I've warmed up. Not, muscular exhaustion, but something more than just bouncing before active meditation.

I've tried some of the stetching exercised suggested in SFQ II. I've had some success with the stay with it and going as long as you can. I've been impressed with the flexibility afterwards. I'll do sitting meditation in the kneeling position. I'll do a really sad looking half lotus while watching TV.

Good luck and keep us (me) updated with your progress. I may just pick up your 3 month goal. May be we can start a full lotus or bust support group going.

You are perfection.
Iam2

That would be awesome Good luck with your exercises as well. Currently, I can pull off a pretty good half lotus by hoisting my right foot onto my left leg. Soon, I hope to acheive the same thing with my left foot and eventually go all the way with Full Lotus.

*Today will be my sixth day for strectching.

[This message has been edited by Nacho (edited February 09, 2004).]

Hmm, so then I take it there are no specific stretch times relating to Qigong...? Anyway, things have been going good so far. I can almost touch my head to knees and have near perfected my half-lotus. Hopefully things continue to go well.

Hi,
I incorporate stretching and/or joint opening work, the same as bouncing. To open up, relax, get energy moving, build up some warmth... A somewhat neutral pre exercise to either an active or inactive session.

In Chinese systems, a physical position, a hand movement, a technique, etc., all can involve concept too. Remember too, what meditation , or inactive exercise is, and bring that into your development of sitting positions. Developing them only as physical positions ,to accomplish them physically, is certainly good, but is only the 'outside' part. To me, 'lotus' sitting involves a concept, and state of being, which has an ongoing practice connected to it. Not something that can be mastered, and moved past in so short a period of time. I'm sure that you understand that too.
It is also important too, for everyone to realize they can pursue a meditation practice, even if they can't get into these positions, and benefit greatly from it. The level of accomplishment in inactive exercise, is not simply measured by the success in accomplishing a physical position...
love,
gallen

Thankyou Gallen.

Task 1: Accomplished.

I have successfully brought both feet above my thighs. Now all I have to do is keep that stance for 2 hours and I'll be set.

I envy you Nacho. I'm not there. In fact, I've messed up my right knee. I can't even blame running, since I've stayed away from that for quite some time now. Only that pretzling to blame.

However, I've got sword fingers working on the knee.

You are perfection.
Iam2

Nacho:
Good job, keep at it and you'll get there just fine. It takes time, just like anything else.

Once you achieve the full-lotus, for even a brief second; it takes time to maintain it for the duration. Just keep stretching and opening the joints. The muscle memory is there, but it will take time to get them used to it again - after so many years.

Concerning your original question, there is no special or better time for your stretching. Your body will be the best judge of that; and, veryone is different. Work slowly and according to your schedule. Try and sit in the position whenever your are seated, to watch TV, or sit and read, or sit with company. Some people swear by certain times for stretching; but, again, your body is the best judge: listen to it.

Iam2, with time you'll be able to do it too. But, please, take it SLOW! Better have that knee checked, or at least be cautious and observe good form and exercise protocol when stretching. Master Lin's suggestions in Level 2 is excellent and most effective. Forget the prestel type stretching and work up to your ability: "Rome wasn't built in a day," and you won't become fully flexible over night - either. But, slowly and consistently and you will ARRIVE!

Much Love ....

Nacho, indulge me for a brief minute, and I'll share something with you; since, you've already achieved the full lotus - even though for a brief time.

Try this. When you are sitting on the floor with say the left leg in front of you and positioned at a right angle (90 degrees). That is, left thigh straight forward and knee bent so that the lower leg is at a right angle to the thigh and foot pointing towards right. Place your right foot upon your left thigh, as in half-lotus. Now, slowly oscillate the right leg up and down trying to bring the right knee to the ground in a some what modified half-lotus. Eventually, you'll be able to keep the knee on the ground. This helps in developing the stretch for the full lotus. Repeat the same with the other leg.
Eventually, you'll be able to life the other foot (the one at right angle) onto the opposite thigh in full lotus.

Also, when in full lotus breath into it and then stretch (and repeat), and it will help you to maintain it longer. Also, try and massage the entire foot bottom while in full lotus. The sensation is amazing and truly rejuvenating; besides, it distracts you from the otherwise uncomfortable sensations.

But, always use caution, and respect your limitations.

Much Love ....

Thankyou very much Macook .

Held Full Lotus for 15 minutes today. It's an odd feeling telling your body that excruciating pain is a good thing. Hope it doesn't have an adverse affect on me.

-Notch

Nacho:
Excruciating pain is 'NOT A GOOD THING!
Pain is a very important friend, teacher, guide,and should be respected ALWAYS!

It is not good to force yourself through excruciating pain. You will end up with long lived lingering problems. Respect pain and follow prudent protocol and sound exercise wisdom with your stretching.

Why rush yourself into potentially serious trouble? Take your time.

What is the rush anyway? You can still achieve all you seek without ever going into full lotus. Most important is to keep your entire spine straight - from the crown of your head to your seat bone. You can do this simply by sitting straight on an armless chair with your feet on the floor. Cover the chair with a woolen blanket and if possible a silk material over this, to insulate yourself from the ground and its draining currents. That is all you really need. And, if you can sit in ANY cross-legged position with spine straight, that is also good.

I have been sitting in full lotus for a long time, but it also took time before I was able to do this. In fact, for a long time I thought I would never ever be able to do it. Now, I often find myself in the position without even trying or realizing it. One important thing to realize is the fact that I never ever forced it. Little by little, I just gradually opened up to it. Just like all other things in life. Let it happen naturally, do not force it, just continue your stretching and exercises as Master Lin demonstates, and you too will soon be surprised.

BUT, YOU'D BETTER BE CAREFUL AND EXERCISE PRUDENT BEHAVIOR.

Mike

When I attended Master Lin's level II class, his assistant Randy told us all about performing the Full Lotus and how it was definite struggle for him. In one of his stories he told us about how after spraining his right leg (or something similar to that) he called up Master Lin, who gave a short laugh and then told him (Randy) to simply lift the leg above the other leg like always despite how much it hurt.

So sorry, but I just don't see myself getting past this without pushing myself, if just a little bit.

========
Even Master Lin states in his video that these stretches are going to hurt at first, but as long as you keep at it your body will eventually adjust. I don't see anyone reason why I should doubt these two guys when they seem to be doing just fine.

[This message has been edited by Nacho (edited March 13, 2004).]

Nacho:

I'm not asking you to, "doubt these two guys," as you say. Just advising you to follow the "prudent man rule." In my line of work, I see just too much of the patients who didn't follow care in exercise, yoga, etc., and are now regretting it (and I'm speaking from the place of a grandfathered (RYT)yoga teacher and practitioner, also). Besides, you specifically mentioned "EXCRUCIATING PAIN," and also for 15 minutes.

I know very well what Master Lin teaches in the Level Two course. Master Lin's teaching is sound, practical, wise and wholesome. You, on the other hand, sounded like you were taking it to a different level of force. That is why you received my CONCERNED CAUTION!

I'll always prefer to err on the side of caution; as opposed to injury and disability and chronic pain. But, of course, YOUR'RE ALWAYS FREE TO CHOOSE YOUR OWN PATH.

Much Love ....

Hi Nacho, speaking from someone who's husband is an Indian Yogi, I agree with Mike. Mike is right about the exruciating pain. Do not force yourself! You'll tear cartilage and believe me, I tore mine and you don't want to do that. You have to treat your body with RESPECT and GENTLY.

It takes YEARS for yogis to be able to do the asanas. They practice daily and gently coach the body to stretch into the positions. Please slow down.

Mayflower,

Hi!
Sound and practical advice.

Much Love ....

Aloha Nacho,

That's Chunyi's assistant Jim, by the way, and the one thing he puts out there while talking about the route he took in getting to a full lotus is not to be recklace and furt yourself.

Yes, Jim had the advantage of Chunyi sending him energy and help the hip and leg heal during that process, but as he, MACOOK, and Mayflower have previously mentioned -Rome wasn't built in a day, so take your time in making the roads.

Much Love, Shawn

Hi Mike, How ya' doin?

(Hi Shawn)

Ok, ok, ok, no more Full Lotus, but I think you guys doubt my capabalities. I may have been exagerrating a little with the excruciating part, because if it was truly excruciating I doubt I would be able to hold for as long as I do or did.

"That's Chunyi's assistant Jim, by the way"

And yet for some reason I always, ALWAYS, refer to him as Randy. ::frustrated::

[This message has been edited by Nacho (edited March 16, 2004).]

Aloha Nacho,

I don't doubt your abilities, just giving you guidance to be prudent to your goal.

Much Love & success, Shawn

Hi everyone, this is Walter form North Wales
I am new to Spring Forest Qigong and enjoy the forum, which I have only recently discovered.
I am not starting this as a new link because it seem to be related to stretching. Thank you all for your good advice re Lotus.
I can manage a half Lotus, of a sort, with both legs. (One at a time)
But not with my foot tucked up to my trunk as Master Lin shows in the video.
Instead my heal is against my trunk with the foot pointing towards my knee.
Am I right to assume that it will become more supple with practice. Should one try to push the foot so that it is in line with the leg?
At the moment the full Lotus looks a long way off.
The meditations on cassette are about 28 minutes and I managed that by fluctuating between deliberately relaxing the thigh muscles for a few seconds and the going back to the meditation. It did spoil the meditation a little but I felt it was worth the effort. When I finished I felt as though I wanted to stay in that position. However I found it difficult to get out of the half Lotus, and to straighten my legs. It takes me ages to stand up. Is this normal?
The next time I listened to the CD and did not realise it was much longer, as a result I had to stop before the end, it was becoming too uncomfortable. But it was very enjoyable.
Thank you all once again for your input, I have lots of questions but will wait until I have read the previous links.
Take great care, keep smiling and stay healthy
Love
Walter

Shawn,

I see you using some of that good old NLP/hypnosis stuff in your message...

Nice touch!

-purjo

Aloha Lifeforce,

When having numb legs coming out of the full lotus (or even half for that matter), spend some time massaging your big toes.

Thank you for your question and joining us Lifeforce. Be sure to search the old posts for supplemental information on this topic.

Purjo: Next you'll be claiming (practice) I'm using subliminal (practice) messages in (practice) my posts!

Much Love, Shawn

<rolling on the floor with a laughing cramp>

...

Ok, I admit that my message was not only for you, it was for myself too ...and anybody that cares to read it.

BTW, I ordered my SFQ 1 yesterday....

-purjo