Forums IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ Spring Forest Qigong just to clarify

OK I just need to clarify something:

Is it appropriate for people who do SFQ to also do other qigong programs?

I keep hearing people say "do SFQ for a couple of years to get a background in qigong...then experiment with other styles."

Here are my issues:
1. I am not a beginner in qigong, I have studied qigong with other teachers in-person and I have done other qigong learning by correspondence. I've been in qigong since 97 - that's when I started under Mantak Chia and I met him in person and also worked with Healing Tao Boston on many occasions.

2. I do 5 other qigongs: 3 are martial( chinese ) qigong systems, 1 is the liangong method, and the other is martial & general energy cultivation( nei kung from indonesia but based in qigong & pranayama from india ). The 3 strictly martial qigong systems are through 1 individual - a chinese martial arts sifu. I learned liangong through books & DVDs. The indonesian nei-kung system is through someone else who trains me by correspondence. I do not currently do any qigong under Mantak Chia's organization.

The way I think is that SFQ is really the only medical qigong I do. But IMO medical qigong is simply not all of qigong.

Liangong could be termed medical but it's very basic and it does not involve or lead to the ability to heal through chi projection. It's a set of joint & body loosening exercises and after you finish them you learn Yi qigong which is a short set. I'm learning that now and again it's for stilling the mind, not for healing. I would say Liangong is my favorite since it really opens up the channels. According to the liangong organization you can do any other qigong immediately afterward and it's not a problem.

The 3 martial qigongs are done one after another as my sifu says all you need is a 5 minute break between the sets - they all use reverse breathing. One of the sets is a closed-door chinese martial qigong and my sifu is generally knowledgable - IMO he knows what he is talking about.

The nei kung system from indonesia is done on it's own and I spend 1 hour every morning and night on it.

My schedule is like this:
wake up 4:30am perform liangong for 30 minutes(includes warm ups & yi qigong).

break for 30 minutes, usually go for a walk outside.

5:30am do indonesian nei kung for 1 hour.

6:30am take a shower and brush my teeth.

7:00am - 7:30am do the different martial qigongs for 10 minutes each.

work during the day do SFQ on lunch for 40 minutes during the week. On weekends same thing applies - 40 minutes per day for SFQ. It's very easy, the spring forest breath is an easy breath. no reverse breathing & no applications of locking techniques( no use of locking the 3 gates in SFQ ). In short SFQ is done on auto pilot it's so easy and that's why I love it. It's what I do for a rest or break from other work.

evening: indonesian nei kung 8:00pm- 8:30pm just to review and comply with my instructors demand that I do the exercises 2 times per day every day.

It's easy to look at my life and say "well you're just wasting your time...just focus on 1 thing..." but I don't think so. First as you see the indonesian nei kung is really my main focus - if I were to do only 1 thing it would be this. I do liangong every morning because it opens the channels like nothing else. That's my experience but I love it. Perfectly safe, a lot of benefits, not really in-depth but let me tell you this is what makes everything else possible. Seriously - liangong opens my channels and gives me energy throughout the day. My other qigong work is very productive because I do this each morning. The 3 martial qigongs are only done for 10 minutes each right in succession - I learned them from my sifu and he doesn't think I need to waste 1 hour each day on these. They give strictly martial benefits that you can get in ten minutes - especially if you do them every day and IMO if you do liangong every day. My channels are well warmed-up by liangong. And yes every night I go back to the nei kung system because it uses special postures and a breath method that is not abdominal or reverse breathing - it's a somewhat secret method.

Anyway I'[m doing fine. I like Chunyi Lin - I like his attitude and his spirit. It's just that SFQ isn't all of qigong. Chunyi Lin is great for medical qigong and this sytem - SFQ - is so easy to do. It's as easy as flopping down on my bed at the end of the day. No deep stances, nothing too hard. And I get great benefits. I really try to think about love, forgiveness, and kindness in all that I do.

But as I've said - there are other qigong systems that are just totally different - medical qigong is just 1 type of qigong.

If I were to change my routine - if I had to give something up - I would drop 1 of the 3 martial qigongs and I would drop SFQ.

I keep hearing people repeat this fallacy that I need to only study SFQ. What does Chunyi Lin know about what I do? Does he know the methods I know? No, he does not. And SFQ won't do the things these other systems do. If people tell me I have to just do SFQ I will quit. I don't want to quit but I would quit in a second and not look back if this demand were placed on me. There are other medical qigong styles out there and those teachers won't care what else I do.

Again I am well aware of the requirement not to mix SFQ with other systems. I do not - I always leave at least 30 minutes between SFQ and any other work I do.

orange_soda, the mood and intent in your last two paragraphs seem to conflict. At least I would respond differently to each of them.

Master Lin says that you can do multiple systems. The time inbetween different systems is to allow for the extended benefits from the qi flow in each system. As well as to avoid any conflicting issues, that a student may not recognize on their own.

Yeah, there are other major arms of qigong. The material I have indicates they are Martial, Medical, and Spiritual. SFQ is primarily medical with some spiritual.

I've heard opinions that a good medical message (practitioner) doesn't grow well with the messages in a martial system. The spiritual messages are more in harmony with medical. (okay you can use qi instead of messages if you like). This isn't to say, you can't do both. It just says that the best medical qigong development isn't likely with a martial system.

I personally think that you could work in the two and do well, but it all depends on having a belief basis that is harmonious with both systems. If you use a martial system that is based on love, kindness, and caring then it would be well suited for SFQ. However, everything is good, better, best.


All my ramblings aside, you have a broader experience than most people here. My advice is to decide what is aligned with your purpose, not necessarily your wants, and set you course by that guidance. You will find you own balance, as you ask for and listen for the guidance.


More rambling. I've often thought of SFQ as just one aspect of qi. Which is fine, and exactly what Master Lin says. He passes on his wisdom on how to become the best healer you can. He doesn't talk about how to use qi for other purposes. Personally, I'm fine with following his course for some time to come, maybe longer. It feels right. I've taken elements of SFQ and applied them to all sorts of aspects of my life. I don't just mean the love, caring and kindness either. Ideas like good, better, best are useful to manager time and projects. The idea of what it is to master something, or to be a master, or to master yourself or your life, have been very helpful to me.


Hey orange_soda, you are perfection.
Iam2

thanks for the thoughtful reply. I think I can do them all - I also don't think I would make as much progress in SFQ or any other qigong as someone who is spending a lot more time on it. If someone is doing 2 hours a day on SFQ their skill will likely be far greater than mine in 10 years. I accept that.

I'm just looking to experience different qigong & neigong systems. I live the indonesian energy work I do - it's unbelievable. But I also love SFQ. I do the martial qigongs to help with my skill in chinese martial arts - which is not too great ;-) You would think someone with all of the internal background I have would be great - but my abilities are humble at best - realistically they're not so great. But I do it and I love it. I think the same kind of thinking applies to that as well - I'm trying to do chinese martial arts but my main focus is on martial qigong - I only do external forms for about 30 minutes to 1 hour a day if I have time. It's the last thing I do every day and I only do it if I have time. Some days I don't do it at all.

I'm just looking to build my energy in some different ways over the next 20-40 years of my life as I am 33 years old right now. I think I have basically found everything I want in terms of qigong. There's nothing out there I want - I just want to get better at what I have.

I agree with your statement about 3 major areas of qigong: martial, medical, and spiritual. If anyone has any other ideas for categories let me know.

It's not like I'm trying to be confrontational here. I just want to reiterate that there a *lot* of qigongs out there - and they don't all do the same things. Medical qigong can have elements of the spiritual. Medical probably has the most applications to the other areas - but there are other things out there. Most martial schools in china included some type of medical qigong and most high level masters are good in several systems of qigong - they absolutely do not tell their students to study only 1 qigong method at a time. Maybe for 3-6 months but once you start learning one method you get exposed to other things. remember high level masters passed on *several* qigong systems at a time - that's how this knowledge was preserved.

SFQ is great but SFQ is not all of qigong - it's one type of medical qigong. I love it but as I said I take these admonitions to study SFQ only with serious skepticism.

SFQ does seem to be primarily a medical and spritual qigong - and Master Lin practices (daily as I understand it from his talk to us at the retreat) - a very rigorous form of Tai Chi which is martial and his particular form has some Kung Fu type moves in it - usually as a warm-up before he does his SFQ practice.

Having said that I also understand that SFQ strengthens the internal organs which in turn strengthens the body core so while it's not necessarily a very physical form of qigong - it does benefit the body and it's not totally necessary for a person to undertake a more physical form unless they want to.

Everyone to their own I say and I would just suggest that you follow Master Lin's advice and leave 20 minutes between the different forms you participate in.

Dear orange_soda,

You remind me of myself when I was younger and concerned about
particularization. As a veteran of Qi-arts, I can assure you that all
these different categorizations, schools, methods, and philosophies, etc,
are unfortunately the products of our imperfect human tendencies to want
to fragment and divide what is actually whole.

It's somewhat like asking, which color is best? Red, blue, green, purple,
yellow, or neon pink? Oh, did I forget orange, as in "orange_soda"?
There are infinite shades of color, but they are all just aspects of one
thing: Light. Nevertheless, our human natures particularize, and minor
wars can be raged over preferences of color. For someone to advise
you should practice only this or that Qi-system (or anything else in life)
is equivalent to advocating only this or that color should be included in
the spectrum of light. How petty we can be.

The deeper one understands the true Qi, the more one realizes that all
these fragmentations, specializations, rules, and doctrines serve only the
practical purpose of allowing us convenient entry points onto the Path.
The farther along the Path one travels, the more these particularizations
lose their meaning and value. Those who choose to become attached to such
particularizations are acting from a sub-enlightened spirit, which taken
to its extreme is a source of suffering.

By all means, play with all those systems which you have found to benefit you
the most. While you do so, I hope your spirit will become lighter and
lighter, until it is able to float beyond particularizations. Then you
will have found the true Qi.

As a wise man once said, the truth shall set you free.

Best,

HF

Dear orange_soda,

Another analogy came to mind: Music.

There are many, many ways to make music, perhaps an infinite number of
ways. But to become a musician, I have to start somewhere. So, I may try
the piano first. Or, I may try the violin. Some music teachers may
advise me to devote my time and energy on one instrument at a time,
perhaps a few years of piano first to get a good grounding in music, and
then move on to the violin. (Indeed, even in the study of a given
instrument, there are many, many different schools and methodologies!)

Limitations on time, energy, talent, and interest may require that I
really do have to concentrate on one instrument at a time, and a
particular method of learning that instrument. If I'm very resourceful, I
may learn more than one instrument/method at a time. But that doesn't
invalidate all the other instruments/methods. In fact, someone else may
choose to learn the violin first. Or the tuba. Or drums. Nevertheless,
we are all learning to appreciate and create one thing: Music.

And it would be unenlightened to suggest that the piano is a "better"
route to learning music than the violin, etc. There's no sense in
debating "good," "better," and "best," regarding the value of particular
musical instruments (and in a broader context, musical genres), because
it's a personal matter of taste, preference, environment, and talent.

As with Qi. As with Life.

Each instrument can create awesome music on its own. And when many
instruments are orchestrated in harmony, we can create music which each
instrument alone cannot.

Such is all things in life ... a whole of parts, and parts of a whole.

Best,

HF

well I do not agree with you that all qigongs are the same - or that all these divisions are somehow artificial.

I don't want to argue about it but let's put it this way - why do you think so many qigong masters were experts in several systems? Why didn't martial arts masters in china just focus on medical qigong? Do yoyu really think people who know medical qigong only can apply qigong to chinese martial arts? Seriously. think about that. For real. Really think about it. Why is it that so many masters of high level chinese martial styles studied medical & martial qigong methods? do you think you are more informed than they were> Let's just consider wudang mountain(I won't go into hua shan, kunlun mountains, songshan(shaolin) etc.) - why did the monks learn several different qigong methods - including martial & medical systems? Is it because they were not as well informed as you are? Is it because they didn't know SFQ?

Seriously. Think about the history of qigong, chinese buddhism & daoism, and chinese martial arts before you speak.

I'm out of SFQ for now - if I want to come back I'll stop by.

Dear orange_soda,

There is no argument, only mutual sharing and learning.

Your attachment to plurality is understandable, given your youth. At a
certain stage in our development, we need boundaries, because we are
seeking to differentiate ourselves from others. We are trying to find
identity, the "I-ness" apart from the "We-ness." This is the stage of the
Athlete and the Warrior. We declare with great certitude: Red is not
Blue, Green is not Purple, and we believe anyone who can't or won't
acknowledge their obvious differences is either blind or irrational. Oh,
how wise we are in our own eyes.

But then we realize: Boundaries are but illusions, completely artificial.
Red, blue, green and purple, so apparently different from one perspective,
are all the same in essence. There is no separation, only unity.

This oneness forms the basis of all Chinese ideology and is the
cornerstone of Tao. What can appear more separate than the Yin and
the Yang, the idealization of opposite extremes? And yet, Tao says they are
in fact one. Substitute any opposite extremes you can think of and you
will find the same oneness which binds them both. "Medical" vs.
"Martial." Or, "Matter" vs. "Mind." Or, "Male" vs. "Female." Or,
"Space" vs. "Time." Or an infinite number of dichotomies which our
human natures like to distinguish. According to Tao, they are all one.
And there is truth in Tao.

When we begin to realize that what appears totally different and separate
are in fact one and the same, at that moment, we take a firm step ahead on
the Path of Tao.

Perhaps it is because you are learning Qi in a modern, competitive culture
that the Tao of unity is obscured. Less enlightened teachers get their
bread and butter from drawing lines in the sand: "MY system is distinct,
so come learn from ME." But a true master of Qi has the opposite
attitude: "Qi is everywhere and everything, and there are an infinite
number of ways to appreciate and develop it. I happen to know one, and I
am humbled and honored to share it with you." I hope you will find a true
master of Qi to learn from.

Personally, I know nothing more than any of the great teachers of any of
the great systems which are based on Tao. Separateness is only an
illusion. Separateness is a convenience for our limited natures. To
insist upon and emphasize them is contrary to Tao. To look beyond
separation with a unifying light is Tao.

Meditate upon this in your practice of Qi (whichever flavor of the month
you desire), and you will begin to come to this realization, too. You
must, because it is Tao.

Best,

HF

orange, SFQ is for both medical and spiritual. There are 4 levels taught: health, healing, advanced energy development and healing, and finally enlightenment.

http://www.springforestqigong.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=40

If you look at the advanced levels you're getting into third eye, psychic abilities, reading auras, remote healing. Pretty wild stuff.

As you have trained long enough you've probably realized by now that the mind controls the chi. How you apply your chi is up to you.

-- th1