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Hartree

Firstly I accept Christ and His teachings. I also am reminded that Christ had great compassion for people's subjective truths and I think He validated them where they were at by having compassion in the first place, once He had done that He told them to follow Him, to know greater truths. He did not deny their subjective truth, I believe the Cross is all about Christ making it possible for us to be with the Father, and to speak with the Father as His sons and daughters

Your Quote: 'Perhaps the confusion (and danger) arises when one tries to elevate "subjective truths" to the level of "objective truths."'

I agree with that, I've seen it happen in far less serious examples, where even in myself, I've elevated my opinion and said that is how it is. Maybe we should put a frame around it and say we believe it, but we will walk a mile in your shoes to learn what you believe, and based on your experience we will make many concessions to give you full dignity as you experience it through your eyes. It is very difficult to do this.

And then of course there are dreams, illusions, lies and prophecies, which are told as truth as you, Hartree, have experienced, and as you know dreams and prophecies cannot all be truth based, as we have experienced with many prophecies by many prophets.

Hartree, I have had similar experiences as your 'outcast' experience, and that is what I am dealing with, not because of any fault of my own, maybe I'm different or misunderstood, but that doesn't make me an 'outcast', in many people's opinions it is true, but I claim God's truth that He loves us all. I don't want to discuss my particular example as it is personal, I think I've layed the cards on the table pretty openly.

Hartree you have helped me very much through this time, thank you.

Here is a long discussion on integrity for anybody interested, I glanced at some of it, it looks quite good

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/integrity/

Grant, when you said earlier - if I know my own truth why can't I drop what is not me? I feel that for me, when I think that I am in a position of thinking that I know my own truth, then that is when I am in fact furthest away from it. For me it would almost work conversely - when I drop what is not me, only then will the truth reveal itself. The truth is beyond "me" and what "I" want. The truth just is. I probably just confuse matters and get in the way of truth by being human, overly materialistic and a bit ignorant of the wonderfulness of life most of the time. But I suppose that's what being human's all about too.
At the moment I'm fundamentally coming around to the idea that once you let go of both your ideals (and those of others) on the one hand and also those things you fear, avoid, dislike (both about yourself and others) on the other, then you reach a point where you become more aware and alive. A space is created for an awareness which opens you up to a part inside of you which is more connected or in tune with the moment. When I am in this space I am more in a position to listen and to receive inner guidance. Otherwise I suppose it's like fixating on one thing, while missing out on the wider picture. So if you instead stop looking at one thing exclusively, you are able to appreciate the full tapestry.
So I suppose, if I had a value or ideal which I wanted to live out, how would I go about it? I would try letting go of the ideal.
Put another way, my ideal would be to live fully, with honesty, looking at myself warts and all in every moment, with compassion and forgiveness of both myself and others, in acceptance of the now. I would also never presume to know truth, but would instead focus on cultivating trust in the fact that truth does actually want to reveal itself through me, if I simply cultivate an open, forgiving and honest, frame of mind and the right circumstances for that to happen - every moment, every day.
best wishes
Ingrid
PS: and the idea here is that truth is already there, inside me, inside everyone (an original blessing?) - not something external or falsely conceived to be grabbed at or aspired to.

Ingrid,

That makes a lot of sense, thank you. Very refreshing. Very human. A life-giving philosophy. Lots of freedom for yourself and others.

Do you laugh a lot? Are you a fun person? Sounds like it. Forgiveness and compassion sounds good. Do you spend a lot of time with others?

I don't think I could integrate most of what you said purposely, I think you have a message there underneath that all that you learn by doing, and by doing you learn your truth? I think that you are telling me to loosen up that life is in the living, and not in the ideals. Nice. Very nice. A goal that I can't achieve by trying to achieve the goal. Frustrating...A paraliminal should be created called...Freedom...within reason. Quite a paradigm shift. I mean you have aims openness, forgiveness and honesty but you don't focus on creating other ideals. Openness, compassion, forgiveness and honesty create a way for great freedom. I think doing that naturally creates freedom for others to have integrity with you. Those are really nice values. They are mine too.

Thanks for your kind message Grant. The world is definitely an interesting place. You asked me if I spend a lot of time with others, the answer is yes. I love living and working with people from all over. It constantly reminds me that there are always other perspectives. There are always surprises in store and everyone has their baggage, their story, their motivation. I have mine too. And these experiences and insights are all constantly unfolding, changing, moving forward. That's what I really enjoy about life. That's what I enjoy about this forum too!
best wishes
Ingrid

I think what I've learned so far from this, that integrity only comes from freedom to be who you are now.

I think in order to do this we have to love and accept ourselves unconditionally with all our "warts and all", and to be ourselves.

This was combined with a question I posted previously:

"Self-esteem and humility in the same mind???"

I have come to a satisfactory integration of them, that is, to love and accept ourselves unconditionally with all our "warts and all".

Self-esteem: love and accept ourselves unconditionally, and to provide unconditional support for ourselves.

Humility: being our awareness about our warts and all.

And once total awareness kicks in - perhaps then the answer to that million dollar question at last begins to reveal itself; Who am I really? Who are we really? What are we all doing here?

:0) Ingrid