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That's interesting. I wonder if different people have different kinds of
OBEs, like some people have good Near Death Experiences (going to heaven),
while others have very bad ones (visiting hell).

Anyone have a good OBE experience to share? Other posters to other
threads in this forum seem to offer very positive OBE accounts, feelings
which seem quite similar to the feelings I have during my lucid dreaming.

I think a rational explanation of both is that these are phenomena
experienced during an altered state of consciousness. You can call it
"dreaming" or "deep trance" or whatever else you like... what ties both
together is that the brain is functioning differently during these states,
and thus the person experiences certain sensations which is interpreted as
"flying" or "leaving the body," etc. It would be interesting to record
the brain's function using ECGs or CAT scans during such experiences to
build a more objective picture of what's happening in the brain.

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Pablomx Offline OP
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Hi, I found some good ariticles in the web that relate to OBEs and Lucid dreaming.

http://spiritwatch.ca/luciddreams.htm
http://www.lucidity.com/NL32.OBEandLD.html

Hope you can check them out and tell me what you think.

I think i'm strating to understand the difference, a lucid dream is made out of your memorys and you can create your own reality, but in a OBEs you are actually in the real world but in a other type of realm.

Some thing funny happend to me the other day, i had a dream where i was talking with my girlfriend but it was very real, to the point that i actually thought it did happen, so when i saw her, i accidently mencioned something she told me on my dream, she put a funny face and told me 'how did you know?', i told her that she told me and she replied she had never said anything to me about that. A little bit strange, don't you think.

But i have heard of people that can meet while they are in OBEs and then when they see each other they can actually talk about what they did. I think thats very intresting.

Pablo

Pablomx #56918 11/16/06 09:07 PM
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Hi Pablomx,

Thanks so much for posting those articles. Yes, they were very, very
interesting, and I learned something: those experiences I relayed to you
in the above posts about flying in my lucid dreams are actually classified
as legitimate OBEs by the authors!!! I never realized that!

I appreciate the fact that the researchers acknowledge that the vast
majority of OBEs begin when the subject is in bed, resting, sleeping, or
ill, and a very small proportion begin when the subject is medicated or
drugged. So, it seems that the research evidence shows a strong
correlation between OBEs and lucid dream flying/floating, and that we're
actually describing the same thing using different words, just as I
suspected. It's definitely true that not all of my lucid dreams involve
OBEs, because in some lucid dreams, I choose to stay in my body. Lucid
flying/floating is definitely an option, and now I know that these
occurrences can properly be called OBEs. Perhaps when others draw a line
between lucid dreaming and OBEs, they're describing a lucid dream where
they do not feel as though they are rising out of their body, but are
merely lucid while dreaming. I regularly have both experiences.

Regarding the bolder statement about the possibility of having a "real"
OBE in this physical realm, well, again, I will let you be the judge of
your own experiences and those told by others. Personally, I tend to be
wary of such stories, because I'm dedicated to intellectual honesty, and
it's easier for me to believe humans like to deceive themselves than for
me to believe that some physical law has actually been breached. I'm not
excluding the possibility of the latter, but I require rigorous,
undeniable evidence before I can believe it. I have yet to find such
evidence. All I can say at this point is that I regularly experience OBEs
(as defined by the researchers), and I can concur why it FEELS so real,
and yet, admit to myself in all honesty that it is only a perception.
How you wish to interpret your experiences is wholly up to you.

For example, in the story which you relayed about your girl-friend, I
could suggest that your sub-conscious mind is aware of certain things
about her (which even your conscious mind is not fully aware of), and that
during your dream, it was playing out a likely scenario involving her and
how she would respond. Then, when you relayed the dream to her in
reality, it only seemed to agree because it was already true to begin
with. The fact that the match occurred seemed very surprising to your
conscious self, and now you have a story to tell. There was also the
chance that your dream did not correlate with reality, but if that were
the case, you would not be as eager to note the experience, and rather,
you would be inclined to forget it more easily. This is called "selective
memory" ... the human tendency to emphasize certain events which supports
one's notions, and to discount ones which do not. We are all susceptible
to selective memory, and it takes great courage, integrity, and honesty to
interpret something as objectively as possible.

Nevertheless, I don't wish to lessen the significance of your experiences
with all this intellectualizing. As long as your experiences enrich your
life and enhance its meaning, they should be treasured for what they are.
I tend to rationalize, only because it is in my nature to do so.

Thanks again for sharing the articles, and please continue to let us know
how you progress in your lucidity.

Best,

HF

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Pablomx Offline OP
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Hi hf,

Thanks for your opinion on my experience with my girlfriend, and yeah that could be the case, never thought about it that way : ), i'm open to diferent explanations, but im still open to the possibility of comunicating with other pernsons during this state of mind, do you know anyone close to you that also has this type of experinces, I mean, that way you could do some experiments and try meet that person and after talk about it and see for yourself, that could give you some type of proof. Because i can't really say for myself because i don't have the same experience you have on this topic, i'm just a humble beginer.

Oh yeah, have you ever gone out of the planet on your lucidity or obes?, i think that could be kind of cool.

Pablo

Pablomx #56920 11/17/06 06:12 PM
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Hey Pablomx ...

Well, maybe when you become a master lucid-dreamer/OBEer, we can "meet"
somewhere and share an adventure

Yes, many of my lucid experiences have involved "other worlds." Indeed,
many have involved even "other times," like my most recent dream. I knew
I was in the future, and I witnessed something which I perceived to be in
my future. In the dream, it felt like I was in one of those Back to the
Future movies, where I KNOW I'm out of my correct time-frame, and yet, I'm
actually "there" in the future. Well, if what I witnessed is fulfilled in
this "reality", I'll surely let you know.

To be honest, though, I don't remember traveling through space (like
flying past stars, planets, etc.) in my other-worldly type of dreams. I
just find myself "there" and I interact with the strange creatures or
other objects there. I remember a city in the clouds once. Sliding down
a rainbow. Talking to lion- or horse-like creatures that could fly.
Pretty wild stuff ... stuff that dreams are made of.

And the transition to OBEs are very pleasant, too. Like slipping my hand
out of a glove, so it feels like I slip out of my body. Or jumping off a
cliff or high building (like in the Matrix) and knowing I won't "die" but
rather turn into an eagle and soar away. Gee - if I heard someone else
describing these things, I'd suspect they were smoking some weed, ha ha.
But trust me, you don't need any drugs to have these experiences, only a
prepared mind.

Talk to you later,

HF

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Wow, I just wanted to say that I've read tons of your posts in here (as well as the photoreading forum) hartreefoch, and you seem to have some wonderful insight into many aspects. Seriously, I'm impressed and hope to be that well versed in these areas.
I'm certainly a dreamer, but I mean that in a way that people usually mean it when they say that some kid's got his head in the clouds. I feel that I come up with good ideas at times when I think about something because I have a knack for predicting possible outcomes.
As for lucid dreaming... not yet. I would love to be able to dream lucidly, but at this time, I think that getting more than a few hours of sleep would be a strong contributing factor to the success of that plan. Am I correct in that?
Also, I was wondering if there were any personal stumbling points you've found in your experience with lucid dreaming. An example of what I mean is how Alex said that during an OBE if you think about your body you will be pulled back.
Is there anything of the like with lucid dreaming?
Thanks for your input and sharing of your experiences.

Tony

ps- Hello Alex! I decided I should probably sign up with an account and begin contributing to these discussions! Keep up the slog! (or am I making another incorrect assumption on the use of that word?)

tr38back #56922 11/21/06 06:15 PM
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Hi Tony,

Thanks for your note! I appreciate your acknowledgment. When I first
began participating here, I was the one who had all the questions and
problems, and the good folks here helped me out a lot. I guess gradually
over time, I've grown, and I'm pleased I'm able to help out others now, in
the little ways I can.

Regarding your questions, yes, I found that the best mental state to
induce lucidity is one of restfulness and stresslessness. So, getting
enough sleep will definitely help.

Regarding problems encountered in lucid dreaming, most of the ones I've
experienced were during the early stages, when I first began actually
becoming lucid. The first time, I was so surprised that I woke up almost
immediately. (It really is a shocking realization, but in a good sense,
like getting totally surprised at a surprise party.) But I quickly
overcame this initial feeling of surprise, and was able to stay in the
dream longer and longer.

Also, sometimes lucidity begins to fade in a prolonged dream, and I can
feel it coming to an end. There are ways I've learned to prolong
lucidity, and one is "spinning" ... that is, to imagine myself spinning
around and around, faster and faster. It's a remarkable technique that
really works. By spinning, I can quickly re-establish lucidity and
prolong the dream, often to new depths. I don't know why it works.
There must be a physiological reason, because it is so effective and
always works for me.

In general, though, all my lucid experiences have been very positive.
Indeed, sometimes, my lucidity saves me from what would have been a
frightening nightmare. For example, my dream may start out normal, and I
would get into a bad situation, like falling off a cliff or being attacked
by some vicious animal, etc., but then I would become lucid, and I could
easily laugh at the apparently dire situation and turn it into a pleasant
adventure. Falling off a cliff - no problem - I just soar away into the
sunset. Vicious animal attack - no problem - I just turn it into a cute
puppy. Lucidity has always given me control over the dream, and I've
always thoroughly enjoyed them. It's an extremely liberating ability.

It's funny ... when I told my dad about lucid dreaming, he was immediately
suspicious. He's a religious man, and he believed lucid dreaming was an
opening for demon possession. So, at first, he was very resistant to the
idea. Well, it turns out that he himself enjoyed a lucid dream after a
short time, and he reported it was quite a nice experience. He didn't
pursue it, though, because it is not important to him. But he feels less
suspicious about the whole concept in general now.

The best lesson I've learned from lucid dreaming is lucid living. Yes,
lucidity during sleep is quite fun, but far more important is living life
lucidly.

Well, let me know if you have other questions, but if not, I wish you the
best in your life and dreams,

HF

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Pablomx Offline OP
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hi

Guess what¡¡¡ i almost did it, i was having a dream and i remembered that during the dream i ask myself if it could be a dream, i didn't really get lucid i got caught back in the dream, but for a moment just one moment i did the question, this was like two days ago and hasn't happend again but it doesn't matter beacase that was some kind of progress, i hope. I think i might be close to lucidity, time will tell.

By the way HF, i know this might not be the forum to ask, but since i know you practice PR, you have ever activated during a lucid dream.

is it ok if i ask this in this forum or should i post this on the PR(for future posting).

Pablomx #56924 11/22/06 12:40 AM
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AWESOME, Pablomx!!!

You're on the verge, my friend!! Keep asking the question during the day,
keep anticipating, and it will happen.

Regarding your question about activating during a lucid dream, I'll have
to review my dream journal before answering. Right now, I can't remember
any specific circumstance, but if I find differently, I'll let you know.

I think the categories in this forum are only meant as rough guidelines.
You can post anywhere, as long as it's related to the discussion in the
thread.

Best,

HF

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Hey, Congrats, Pablomx. That's great for you. I'm currently in the same search that it seems you are. And man oh man, last night I was again attempting to dream lucidly and I think that I hit a snag somewhere...

I took the suggestion to make it a purpose to dream lucidly before I slept because before I only decided on the topic on which I wished to dream. I felt like it was working so well, but I honestly felt like I spent an entire night on the verge and then scaring myself awake. Like the example hartreefoch gave when he did a similar thing, but A LOT.
I probably woke up around fifteen different times last night!!
Needless to say, I didn't sleep well, but the experience was exciting nonetheless.

Also, I feel that the sleeping with a purpose of greasing up the neural pathways that I began during the day in my studies has helped me a lot. This has me very excited for the future.
I am a US Marine, and currently in my training I'm learning Arabic. It's a handful, but I may have found some invaluable tools here... I've honestly already noticed an influx in usage of the language in my dreams since I began this practice. Very Promising

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