Forums IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ Beyond Human My profound spiritual experience

OK I will have to address some of the personal attacks and misconceptions which have now been posted.

First I am not angry, merely disappointed and somewhat shocked at the lack of understanding displayed.

Chrism,Lost Cameleon, Shandor and Gabby
The use of the word 'cult' - I gave the definition - one of several from Chambers Dictionary - which I felt was the definition most appropriate in the context of White Cells. So yes, I am aware of the full range of definitions !
Do you use the full range of definitions when you describe something, or do you choose that which you deem to be appropriate?

Shandor I do not appreciate my integrity being questioned (you say you find my statement dubious) and also being told that I just do not understand. I'd reply by saying I understand the reasoning behind HB only too well and that is one of the reasons I reject it. If my experience of HB is not the same as yours, does that make it any less valid? It is after all MY experience NOT yours. I just feel very sad that any dissention regarding HB and EP is viewed as lack of comprehension or worse.
So no thanks I will decline your offer. I would not dream of discussing anything regarding my spiritual development with you after the type of comments you have made.

As to enlightenment - you state incorrectly, that MY VIEW (not my view at all but your interpretation) is to sit and wait and do nothing! What I have said is that enlightenment is a gift of grace and cannot be learned.

I note however that none of you say anything about Erics statement from Navigator which I highlighted.

I do not live in the USA.

Finally I did not make any statement regarding Eric's arrest, that was someone else.

Pax vobiscum,
Faune

Faune, my friend,

Take it easy

I've been reading this discussion with mild astinishment. Again I have come to the conclusion that words do not carry the meaning of human thoughts well. Actually they are quite poorly suitable to the function (for which they are used all over the world!).

It also astonishes me how people are taken by the face-value of their messages. Like "The meaning of your message is exactly the way I understand it." This applies to almost every single message in this forum. Nobody is ready to take the pains to understand what kind of phenomena lie behind the words. This is something that I have been waiting for quite a long time now. I hope I will be able to do that some time. This message may be an utterly poor attempt to that direction, but at least it's doen.

My two €cents,

[He].2s2.2p4

Hi Oxygen,

Thank you for the reply and yes you are right. We all tend to read into messages what we want to see and more often than not miss the real meaning of the message.

A breath of sanity. Thankyou,

Love and light
Faune

Just an observation--but no one who's IN a cult actually believes they're in a cult.

I'll go so far as to say that the groups of people who gather around a lot of things in the human potential field are very cultish.

NLP has felt very cultish to me.

The Qi Gong thing seems cultish. As do the people who are fans of Centerpointe and the Higher Balance Institute.

Some don't want to use the word religion, but that's what these things are to people. They are religions without the label of religion.

Each set of people is marked by a certain inflexibility in thinking and behavior around their chosen system of belief. They accept dogmatic tenants and can be made to believe, say, and do really stupid things once they're hooked.

Some people are just True Believer types, and these arguments can easily degrade into my guru can beat up your guru.

The guru is usually full of crap anyway, just a repository for the fantasies projected by the follower....

It's all just a bunch of nonsense.

Faune,

You are welcome!

[He].2s2.2p4

Hi Baba,

You hit right to the point again. I've been feeling sometimes uneasy around NLP, SFQ, and other combinations of three letters They all seem so one-sided. Or maybe it simply is the way we people tend to generalize things that creates the cultish institutional aura? For example, let's take someone who has decided to teach some skills he/she has, to other people. Some people learn the skills, some don't. Some people learn only the surface of the things taught, not the content. As a result they learn to repeat a certain sequence of thoughts, words, movements, etc. without any idea what they are doing it for. They trust the apparent magnetism of the teacher and feel good around him/her. That's why they think he/she is teaching the right thing. And they go home to repeat the sequence they have learned. And come back to see the teacher. And trust him/her. Without learning the content. This way the teacher's teachings become institutionalized and peopel start to "know" there is one and only one way to learn it. yikes!

But does the teacher know a way to teach his/her skills in an effective way? Probably not.

How can you learn only the useful things from, say, NLP? Avoiding the cultish parts? A difficult question. I think it's in the human nature to be drawn to anything cultish, so i guess I have to accept the cultish nature of the three-letter-comination for a while. But I'm also sure there is a chance to withdraw at some point and back up a bit. See what's going on. Accept what seems to be useful. Reject things that do not feel right. And keep an open mind.

Now, OK, I'm not referring to anyone in this forum, so nobody should take offence. It's just that this topic of seeing/understanding the whole picture keeps my brain occupied. I'm fascinated about it. Like it's very close to the meaning of my life. Communication. Effective communication.

[He].2s2.2p4

I suppose that any group could be called a cult. But people do grow and evolve. At some point these "cults" had a idea that attracted someone and they followed through on it and became involved.

Once upon a time I thought that hotrod chevies were the "Only" thing to own or be involved with when it came to muscle cars and speed. In my way of thinking at that time, I was a member of a elite club. The hotrod engines developed more and more, becoming less and less like a regular Chevy engine, but man they had some go fast.

I found myself "graduated" out of that club because I had just grown out of it onto bigger things, which I didn't expect to happen or want to. Went onto other "Cults" and graduated out of them also.

Today it is the "White Cell" thing, tomorrow it'll be the super duper spiritual plasma supercharger wingding. Have fun with it.

I purchased his meditation system and I do like the music soundtracks quite a bit, the composer is quite gifted - and there's a lot of variety too: mellow, trip hop/electronica and fusion to choose from. I still use them, but his philosophy...

Then I purchased his book, and obviously he's a sci-fi nut - lot's of Star Wars and Matrix analogies and promises that, you are reading this book for a reason Navigator, join us Navigator! Honestly, he has developed a philiosophy (with a lot of Dogma), fine. But, anytime someone suggests his way is" the way," look out. Struck me as someone trying to start a religion or a cult, in a very obvious way. I finished the book and then tossed it in the trash, I wouldn't donate it to a thrift store as some poor soul might actually fall for this stuff - as in, the Dark side is trying to keep you from being enlightened, you must cloak yourself, you are a white cell (which is rare, as most of the regular earthlings are red cells - how good of him to convince you that you're special and extraordinary in some way (like everybody isn't already), hmm, wonder what he might want?). Come on. It also struck me as, how do I put it - lightweight, lacking real substance and intellectually unrigorous.

I had by this time purchased his manisfestation program, which promised to reveal profound secrets not found anywhere else - it was on sale, so ok. Now, if you've purchased any of Learning Strategies products you know just how well thought out and well produced they are. This would be the other end of the spectrum, shockingly amatuer - obviously not recorded in a studio, perhaps on a cassette recorder by the sound of it. Consists of a couple of followers asking questions to Pepin, who sounded in no way rehearsed, and his off the cuff responses all the time reminding the listener that he is enlightened in such a pompus way. Nobody without an ego orientation could possibly sound like such an egomaniac as he does in this lecture. I only listened to it once because I was seriously taken aback by it, I just couldn't believe they were serious with this thing - substandard on so many levels. And, what are the secrets to manisfestation? Read the Attractor Factor by Joe Vitale or watch the Secret, that is his system as well, with one minor difference - the gratitude step is replaced by, ask in humbleness. Oh boy, fell for that one!

He may be very charismatic in person. He seems to come from an obvious occult background, reminds me of books by Opheil I've read. But the whole good/evil thing is so old, such a trap. As usual, I recommend reading Jane Roberts' Seth books for a good dose of reality.

Now this is not to downplay your personal experiences, but they are your experiences. I think the documentary, "Fierce Grace" about Ram Dass is a good example of what a guru/student relationship should be, ideally. His teacher was truly enlightened, amazingly so, and what was his message? Love people and help people, because everyone is worthy. Pepin's is all about you and me and I and we're different, the Force and the Dark Side, paranormal experiences - alright already.

I'm locking this thread.

I'm all for free discussion. I don't see the benefit allowing this discussion to continue. Since it's not talking about the product and benefit of a product. And Higher Balance has their own website where this probably should be discussed with them..

I value your opinions but they are opinions and this can only add confusion to those who want to learn.

The products that are sold by the higher Balance people are available from their site. I encourage folks to look there for themselves and decide for themselves if that is something they wish to delve into.

Leaving this thread does not endorse the Higher Balance products it's a matter of personal opinion.

I'm locking this thread because I don't see the discussion as productive to the theme of this forum.

The forum is for beyond human to discus how we can grow as humans flowers grow with the aid of manure... too much kills them.

It's neither good or bad just thinking makes it so.

Alex