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A lot of weird stuff happens in life. But what would be even weirder than that would be if NOTHING weird happened at all. That is, it is statistically more likely for weird coincidences to happen that make you think there is an underlying, designed pattern where there is none than for none of those coincidences to happen at all.

Personally, I believe it's probably the case that the Universe gives nothing and takes nothing. Giving and taking presuppose some kind of intention which presupposes some kind of consciousness.

Why worry over or put your faith in invisible agents who act like magical elves who will give you what you want if only you just wish hard enough? Why do that when you've got two good hands of your own and an able mind and willing spirit?

It's great to wish for things and get them. But it's better, I think, to plan, problem solve, and earn them with your own two hands, your own agency, your own work. Then, when you accomplish what you set out for, you'll know that you've earned it and you'll have learned something from the process.

What do you get from just getting whatever you wish for? You get atrophy. I know from personal experience that getting what you want easily, just because you want it can do very, very bad things to you. It's a romantic notion that the world would be a better place if only your dreams could magically come true, but that's only because it doesn't happen and we don't have to live with the consequences of what life would be like if it did.

If we truly did have this power and were able to manifest our heart's desires with the snap of the fingers, life would become hell and the suicide rate would go through the ceiling.

The Secret for me isn't so secret, and that is this is it, right here right now. This is what I've done with what I've got, which largely is a matter of patterns beyond my control, many of them unintended but understandable... many of them through the work of other people and some of them by me.... but none of them by gnomes.

I do not discourage visualization, however. But let's admit what that is: you're simply using your mind to activate and direct your inner resources toward achieving your visualized goal. You are affecting yourself psychologically through the willful use of your imagination. That is all. No astral thought forms of woogie boogie attractor basins in karmic fields. Just the creation of a psychological attractor basin that exists within the mind and body and alters thinking, feeling, and behavior to bring about a desired end.

No hocus pocus.

Last edited by babayada; 02/22/07 05:41 PM.
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What do you get from just getting whatever you wish for? You get atrophy. I know from personal experience that getting what you want easily, just because you want it can do very, very bad things to you. It's a romantic notion that the world would be a better place if only your dreams could magically come true, but that's only because it doesn't happen and we don't have to live with the consequences of what life would be like if it did.






--->That right there is the "turn off", if you will, for the universe! It's like James in The Secret said in his analogy, you complain it doesn't work (or in your case, has bad consequences) and the universe says ... Your wish dear Babayada .. is the Universe's command!


I agree with you 100%, that The Secret, is no secret. I also felt it didn't do much for me. But after watching it over and over (I can officially label the viewing an addiction!) I see the gift that has been RE unleashed onto people.

Whether we grab this opportunity or not is up to us. The Secret DVD is simply a reminder that we ALL, hold EVERY power WITHIN ourselves to make or break our history, present and future.

I also downloaded from the Internet (just did a google search) a PDF version of The Science of Getting Rich, which as Rhonda - the producer of The Secret said, is what started her quest to find out more about The Laws of Attraction which led her to the teachers of LoA today.

Hopefully, Walllace Wattles, being the original producer of "The Secret" if you will, will have in his book a little something for you that will help change your statement "it can do very, very bad things to you" to "wow! Behold life, here I come!"

If anyone is interested in downloading the book (I haven't read it yet, so I don't know whether it is a complete book but it may just be) download from
www.keepyourassets.net/ScienceofGettingRichbook.pdf

Here is another version
www.soilandhealth.org/03sov/0304spiritpsych/030412.Wattle.Getting.Rich.pdf

Go create abundance! And oh by the way, if you are worried about negative consequences, Paul Scheele's RESILIENCE course is one you need to take up.

- D2C

Last edited by decision2change; 02/22/07 11:49 PM.
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Someone won £ 20,000 on the Euromillions lottery using The Secret:
The Secret Forum - £ 20,000 on Euromillions


Bjhn #58560 02/26/07 12:56 AM
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Did a search on Google Books to find out which book Rhonda Byrne is talking about and opening in the beginning of the video.

It's called "The Secret of the Ages" by Robert Collier.

Bjhn #58561 02/26/07 11:55 PM
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I have a few questions for you guys.
1. Why do completely unexpected things attract to us?
2.What are some things I can do every day to attract more good stuff to me?
3. What could I visualize to bring more good relationships with girls into my life?
4. Which paraliminal(s) would help me out a bit with the LoA?

Last edited by QuickLearner; 02/27/07 01:21 AM.
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We have the power to respond with choice to what happens in life.

We do not, however, have the power to determine what life gives us. We can only play the averages. And unfortunately sometimes the choice with which we can respond is terribly limited. Sometimes the only choice someone has is to somehow endure what is happening to or, worse, being done to them.

My wish is the universe's command? Complete BS.

It was not my wish to realize that getting exactly what I wanted had negative effects. In fact, it was something I learned and came as quite a surprise to me. So, no. It was not my wish. It was not my expectation. I expected the opposite, actually. And the response life gave me was in no way commanded by me.

Life gets the first move. We respond as we can. We, hopefully, learn from it and mature.

Life contains hard lessons. Hopefully, the hardships don't turn out to be too much for us.

Sometimes life contains horrible cruelty. To suggest in any way that the hardships endured by people in this world is somehow their wish or fault is beyond glib, it's inhuman. I have friends who had several children die of crib death. Is this somehow their wish? It happened to their first baby. When the second one came along, they wished and wished it would live a long, healthy life. But it didn't. They, apparently, did not have this divine power you say everyone has. Or should I tell them that they gave the universe a big turn off somehow and that they should simply stop it?

Every horror you could possibly imagine and more has been endured by some human being in some way at some time. Many are occurring as you read this. None of victims wished for it and none of them could wish their way out of it.

What you propose is a cushy belief held by those with cushy lives. It's the stuff of the upper middle class and above. Not the beliefs of the poverty stricken in third world countries. Not the beliefs of people who have to worry about being imprisoned and tortured as political prisoners.

Life contains horrors. Life contains wonder and beauty. Sometimes it's a matter of choice. Sometimes it isn't.

People can do an awful lot to make their lives better. Sure. Most of us have a lot more power and choice than we realize. But it's not magical. It's not from wishing. It's from being aware that you can (or maybe even doggedly refusing to believe you can't) and doing something.

I am not saying all this from sour grapes. I live a life of abundance. I have a lot to be grateful for, and the more I live, the more I realize that life has limits, and, paradoxically, the more freedom and enjoyment this gives me.

We are not Gods. We are men and women. We have limits. We grow old. We get sick. We get injured. We die. Unfortunately, we often have to witness the passing of our loved ones and grieve their losses, because they are not immortal Gods and Goddesses. They have limits just like us.

The limitations in life make life more valuable and precious. They make you value each day and not take it for granted.

Accomplishments are worth something because they are not effortless. People of character are cherished and admired because we are not perfect, and it is hard, yes HARD, to be a good person when push comes to shove. We are not the universe's privileged children who are perfect to the core. We are flawed and at the same time more than our flaws. We can sometimes even turn our flaws into benefits if we are creative and determined enough.

This is what makes love, understanding, and compassion meaningful and valuable. Don't you get it? It's not because we're inherently perfect and lovable. It's because that despite our warts there is (usually) still something (sometimes a lot) to love.

The two bit, paper thin, smoke and mirrors belief system you're peddling isn't worth crap. Worse, it's harmful to the human spirit.

It's trash.

I'm just glad that life will generally batter and smash to pieces belief systems like these. It's better to face facts... and facts have an annoying habit of not going away. Reality is what continues to exist despite your beliefs to the contrary.

Last edited by babayada; 03/01/07 09:01 PM.
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1. Why do completely unexpected things attract to us?

I think you know why, deep down, without having to ask this question. And I think here is one of the many places where you find the holes in the assumptions behind the LoA.

Life is not dependent upon your wishes. Life exists as a series of patterns that occur both inside and outside of you, the vast majority of which are affected very little (or not at all) by the activities of your mind. This is why there are so few Gandhis in the world. It's also why problems like global warming exist. We cannot wish away violent behaviors of people and systems. We cannot simply wish away the consequences of our actions.

While many people give lip service to beliefs like the LoA, many know intuitively that it's complete garbage. It's just something they like to think because it makes them feel good. But it does not inform their behaviors. A gut level understanding of reality does. This is why we have few people engaging in extremely self-destructive behaviors. They know what they do has consequences and the world is ruled by something other than wishes and fantasies.

Even the most adamant and vocal adherent on this forum belies their deep down lack of belief in this hoo-hah in their sane, everyday behaviors. They don't wish up food, for instance. They actually manage to acquire it like we all do and feed themselves.

Part of maturity is realizing that it isn't all about you. Thinking that everything is about you, that it all has something to do with you and your wishes, fears, dreams, hopes, aspirations, etc. is narcissism. It's unhealthy.

So, it's best to realize that you are not the center of the universe. Life existed before you and will continue long after you're gone. Everyone has their own concerns, and sometimes plans go awry despite your best efforts.

Life isn't about you. It isn't all created by you. This is a good thing. This means you can learn, grow, be surprised, and experience novelty and curiosity. It means you can BE ALIVE and LIVE.

Life isn't a series of reruns of your internal fantasies, and this is a good thing.

2.What are some things I can do every day to attract more good stuff to me?

You can't do anything to "attract" good stuff to yourself. You can, however, do many things that have a great possibility of having positive results. Exercising, for instance, can lead to a healthier, stronger body and better health.

Playing challenging mental games can likewise improve your mind and strengthen your brain. Being pleasant to people typically leads to them being pleasant to you. But there are no guarantees.

3. What could I visualize to bring more good relationships with girls into my life?

Milton Erickson said you can pretend anything and master it (or something like that). He wasn't saying, I think, that you can "manifest" or "attract" realities to yourself.

I believe he was saying that there are definite benefits from mental rehearsal. It's sort of a fake it till you make it thing. You act as if and approximate using your best guess and learn from the experiences you generate as a result.

Visualization can do many positive things for you, it can make you expect good results and give you confidence. It can enrich your mental representations of whatever you want.

Visualize having enjoyable conversations and relations with women you like and maybe finding one that's just right for you. Maybe it'll help it happen? Not in any magical way, but it will make you more sensitive to what you need to find that right person, and it'll help you enjoy meeting and talking with girls and relating to them in enjoyable ways.

4. Which paraliminal(s) would help me out a bit with the LoA?

In my experience, most of the LSC products are informed by this particular belief system, so if you want to reinforce your belief in it, any of them will support you in that endeavor.

Prosperity is one.

The whole Abundance for Life course is based on the LoA premise.

I like the course, personally, but my take on it is probably very different than that which was intended. I don't believe you attract anything and that manifestation is mostly a psychological phenomenon. It's more like manifesting a glass of water by thinking about moving your keester to the kitchen, getting out a glass, getting out the water pitcher, pouring it into the glass, picking the glass up, putting it to your lips and swallowing.

See, there is a lot of you, reality, and what you do involved.

----

Long story short:

You know in your gut, most likely, that this LoA stuff is nonsense. You also know in your gut all the answers to the questions you just asked. You know what you have to do and you know what is right for you.

Sometimes we need friends to reflect ourselves back at us and tease out what we need to do. I think if you gave the issue a good thinking over, you'd come up with your own answers yourself and that they'd work for you.

Meeting and partnering with girls generally means going out and giving yourself the opportunity to do so. It means making yourself attractive: caring for yourself (hygiene and grooming), having a sense of style and fashion, being able to hold a conversation and present yourself as an interesting person, and also having some consideration for social dynamics which can seem counter-intuitive to a lot of people.

If visualization and wishes worked instead of actually learning good social skills and hoofing it, every male would be partnered with the woman of their dreams. We think about sex just about every 57 seconds, supposedly.

Last edited by babayada; 03/01/07 09:26 PM.
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Here is more of my take on manifesting things into your life. You absolutely can manifest things into your life, in fact, I believe that people often unconsciously manifest things. But manifesting can't be used to get rid of all the things you perceive as “bad” in your life. We have to learn to see the good that comes out of bad. There is usually an opportunity for learning or growth or change.

Manifesting is you telling the universe, I am feeling a little overwhelmed in this one area of my life... relationship, home ownership, money, resolving a specific problem, etc. Can you help me? The universe feels like a parent to you and it wants to give us what we want. It just has to be possible without bending the rules too much. That said, there are reasons that manifestation does not work.

Going to the well to often. Say you manifest a really cute boyfriend/girlfriend and then get tired of him/her so you break up. Then you try to manifest another boyfriend/girlfriend. It won't work. It's going to the well to often. The universe already gave you what you asked for. Wait a year, then try again... but be more specific about what you want.

Design your wish before you start. Be general but be specific. If you ask for a pay raise, that is very specific request, something your boss might not be inclined to do. But if you asked for more money to enter your life, maybe the universe will provide another opportunity, a new job, a chance to go back to school, etc. But you have to pay attention to the opportunity when it arises.

Asking for something that is too unlikely. If you ask to meet a red haired, blue eyed girl who is a model and the nearest girl that meets that description is 6,000 miles away, then it won't work. The universe can only bend the rules so far for you.

Not broadcasting the desire/wish appropriately. Start with the feeling that you are telling the universe, I sorry I have to ask, but I need a little help with this one thing. I would be so grateful if you could just give me a little help. Then emotionally broadcast the feeling of that wish, the house, the wish, the money, the boyfriend...

Not meeting the universe halfway. If you ask to meet and make some really good friends in your life but you never leave your house, even for groceries, the universe doesn't have much to work with. You have do things to improve your odds of getting what you want. Move to a bigger city, get out more, what ever it takes to improve your odds.

No being consistent enough or patient enough. Try manifesting three times per week for 2 weeks. Then wait 2 months and see what happens. If nothing happens, redesign your manifestation, be more general and start over.

T.C.

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I am now building myself a "library" of books, meditation CDs and videos regarding The Law of Attraction and "The Secret".

1. "The Secret" Extended Edititon, DVD (received).

Other stuff I have ordered, but still waiting for:

2. "Quantum Creations: Create Wealth in All Areas of Your Life", DVD with James Arthur Ray

3. The Secret Universal Mind Meditation, CD. Guided by Kelly Howell.

4. The Secret (book by Rhonda Byrne)

5. The Law of Attraction (book by Michael Losier)

I am not considering Esther Hick's books yet. She seems a little weird. She might say a lot of inspiring things on the original DVD, but if there's any reason for people not into new age being skeptical about the DVD, she might be the number one cause. Now that she is not in the extended edition that is no longer an issue.

Bjhn #58566 03/09/07 10:16 PM
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Quote:

I am now building myself a "library" of books, meditation CDs and videos regarding The Law of Attraction and "The Secret".

1. "The Secret" Extended Edititon, DVD (received).

Other stuff I have ordered, but still waiting for:

2. "Quantum Creations: Create Wealth in All Areas of Your Life", DVD with James Arthur Ray

3. The Secret Universal Mind Meditation, CD. Guided by Kelly Howell.

4. The Secret (book by Rhonda Byrne)

5. The Law of Attraction (book by Michael Losier)

I am not considering Esther Hick's books yet. She seems a little weird. She might say a lot of inspiring things on the original DVD, but if there's any reason for people not into new age being skeptical about the DVD, she might be the number one cause. Now that she is not in the extended edition that is no longer an issue.





You will treasure "The Secret of Universal Mind" by Kelly Howell. This is my FAVOURITE of all the programs I have.

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