Forums IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ Beyond Human Mindreality.com

http://www.mindreality.com/mindreality.pdf Mind Reality - The Universe Is Mental


http://www.mindreality.com/secretofeverything.pdf Secret of Everything - Key To The Universe


http://www.mindreality.com/spiritualmysteriesrevealed.pdf Spiritual Mysteries Revealed


http://www.mindreality.com/nutshell.pdf Mind Reality In A Nutshell

Comments?

George

Thanks for posting the above information, I appreciate it and encourage others to share this information.

All the Best!

When people believed the world was flat, was it really flat?

Did their beliefs make it flat?

How could anyone discover that it was spherical when it was really flat because of everyone's beliefs? How could anyone discover that what they've believed to be true is in fact false if reality conformed to beliefs?

The more I learn about physics the more I realize how provincial our thinking is. How local. Our best minds go beyond the limits of our day-to-day thinking and discover amazing things. Not by simplistic wishful thinking or "believing" but by working things out and facing the facts regardless of what you used to believe or want to believe.

One thing I am fairly certain about is that reality does not conform to your wishes and beliefs. Most of human progress has been a movement away from anthropocentric and narcissistic thinking and toward something more. The earth used to be the center of the universe. Then our notions expanded beyond that. Then the sun was the center. Then we realized that it wasn't. See a pattern here? Contrary to these notions about the mind creating everything, it's the other way around. Everything creates the mind. The universe isn't all about us and our minds. We exist in relation to many, many other things. We aren't the center. In fact, we're just the teeniest part.

This new age thinking is a movement backward, not a movement forward. It's immature.

The universe is not about us. We're a very tiny part of it. What quantum physics and relativity tells us, if anything, is that universe does *not* conform to our beliefs, that the reality of it is very, very different than most people believe. That's why quantum physics is so extraordinary and fascinating. That's why it took Einstein's unconventional and genius-level thinking to come up with the theory of relativity.

Reality is not just what you believe it to be. It is not the product of your mind. What you believe will influence the choices you make and the way you think. But it does not change the entire universe. A new way of thinking can change your world subjectively and can lead to objective changes, but that's not magic, although it can be magical in a way. I mean, when you discover doors suddenly open for you because you've discovered something new, or that you were wrong about sucking at something or believing something was impossible, it's great. It's magical. But reality hasn't changed because of your belief. Rather, your beliefs have changed to become more in accord with reality.

I think these people have it backwards and all wrong.

I think it's sad that people have to believe these fantasies in order to feel they have a chance at happiness. Reality doesn't have to conform to your beliefs in order for you pursue your dreams in a meaningful way. In fact, the worth of pursuing your dreams comes from the fact that reality and your dreams are different things. Otherwise, life would be unbearably boring.

Well put Babayada.

What do you make of heisenbergs uncertainty principle?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle

And, additionally, what do you make of the the fact that the Ideal Gas Law was derived from statistical mechanics which assumed no interaction between particles?



These are just two of my favorite "out there" things about physics.

And how about this idea:

The universe is so overwhelmingly complex that we cannot even come close to describing it with any amount of objective accuracy. And when I say universe, I don't mean some black hole eight kazillion light eons away, I mean the short walk between your computer and your local convenience store.
All we can do is use models to approximate some sort of understandable cause and effect relationships in the things that we see. And all of these, by definition, are fantasies. The only reason quantum physics seems so otherworldly is because we don't see it happen every day, like we see gravity and sunlight and electricty. We still have no clue how or why these work. All we have are fantasies to describe our best approximation of how and why they work. To the extent that these fantasies are measurable and repeatable, we hang on to them, label them, and put them in science books.



One of my favorite examples is from solid state and quantum physics (I think the solid state guys stole the idea from the quantum physics guys). Anyways, a bunch of dudes in labcoats were trying to describe the mathematics of a bunch of particles that each had all kinds of particle properties, like mass, charge, spin, charm, strangeness etc. because there were so many particles with so many properties, the mathematics became insanely complicated. So one guy comes up with the idea: "Hey, why don't we treat the whole system as a small number of 'holes', that is, particles with no mass, no charge, no other wierd properties." Was the math a lot simpler? yes. Did it accurately describe the system? yes. Did this fantasy work better than reality to describe the situation? yes. Were there REALLY a bunch of holes moving around?


Yes, some believe and teach that the world actually "changes" to match your thinking, others are more pragmatic in teaching that there are so many "dreams walking in broad daylight" (to quote the talking heads) that all you have to do is learn to see what is already there.

Whatever floats your boat.

George

I'm really having difficulty responding to the open snidery and condescension in that post.

Science knows of a part of the brain that sorts the input coming from the world. This search engine (so to speak), flags some information for use in the person's experience, and discards other information as being irrelevant.

"You create your reality" is nothing more than training this part of the brain.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if the world was "really" flat or not. The people lived their lives as if the world was flat, and they were perfectly okay with it.

I fail to understand why you're so threatened by me retraining my search engine to make sure that I don't end up raped or tortured again. Yes, the search engine in your brain can easily pinpoint when a threatening situation is starting to arise and can easily "poke" you and warn you to leave.

I fail to understand why you're so threatened by me retraining my search engine to make sure that it alerts me when something enters my environment that can help me along in my business as an intuitive, medium, and EFT practicioner.

But hey, if it makes you feel superior, then I'm happy that I could serve to make you feel good.

At the end of the day, it most certainly matters if what you believe is really true or not.

That our beliefs affect our thinking and experience is without question. If you believe you cannot do something or that doing it is going to be way too difficult or painful, you won't try. Learned helplessness is terrible.

But this is different than saying that because you believe something is impossible that it is, in fact, impossible... that you are modifying reality through your beliefs. I think the belief in this supernatural power of belief is not just superstitious, it is dangerous and generally deleterious to the quality of life.

I think that people who are trying to convince others that wishes come true if you just wish hard enough or that if you believe in something then you will make it real are encouraging delusion and making people waste energy in life that can be much better spent.

The fact is that the world is not flat. And it should matter whether or not it is flat. "Everyone believes it's flat so it's flat, isn't that ok?" is a question that can be answered "sure, it's ok" by some but "Absolutely not ok." by others. Some people want to know what really is the case. The steak in the Matrix tasted so good to Cypher that he really didn't care. He didn't want to remember his former comrades, the revelation of truth, or any of that. Fantasy was just fine with him. But to others, it did matter. Truth is better than fiction, even if the truth is awful and hard to bear. At least it isn't a lie.

I think that in the case of someone who has been the victim of rape, being absolutely sure about what is real and what is fake is more important than anything. I had a friend who had a knack for getting raped. We had a frank talk about it. I told her that the way I saw it some men are predatory, and they take advantage of perceived weakness. She was pretty mousy. I told her, in a nice way, that nothing anyone did was her fault, but that it was up to her to protect herself, to notice things about these predatory types as much as they notice about her, and to change her non-verbal behavior to project strength and confidence... to notice what she was really communicating to people about herself and to take it by the reigns. So we went about changing her posture and the way she moved to project confidence, strength, and happiness. We talked about the things that happened when she was attacked and located various cues and warning signs. At the end of the conversation, I could see that she was really feeling how moving her body in certain ways could make her feel good or bad and project various messages about herself to other people. We agreed that "I'm strong, you can't screw with me" was a good thing to project.

That sort of thing is a far cry from visualizing that everything is ok when it may not, in fact, be ok. In fact, many women talk themselves out of their instincts that tell them that this or that particular guy is dangerous and bad... and end up in terrible situations where they are at an extreme disadvantage. Their thinking about a situation doesn't match up with what it really turns out to be, no matter how much they might want to believe that a person is not a threat and that everything is ok.

Months later, when I saw this person again, she ran up to be and gave me a big hug. She looked happy and strong. She told me that what we had talked about had helped her a lot. She had obviously worked on her body language.

I am not against someone improving their perceptive capacities. I am all for it. Being aware of how your instincts serve you and knowing when to take that inner voice serious is seriously important. Being aware of how your body language affects you and others is important. It isn't just a belief in something. It's really learning how things are. It's opening to what really is, not creating and projecting a fantasy. My friend really did have strength and confidence, like any human being, she just wasn't connecting with it and projecting it. If she really had no strength and confidence, then my goal would have been to find what she really did have and use that to build some real confidence and strength. If all she had was a fantasy, then we'd use that, and there would really be nothing wrong with it.

GW, your point about functional fantasies is well taken. I've been listening to Brian Greene's The Fabric of the Universe and it strikes me that a lot of what is going on is metaphorical. They are functional fantasies or models that, astoundingly, work and can create amazingly accurate predictions about behavior.

Are these things out there *really* strings, or is the idea of strings just really helpful? How important is it that we realize that strings aren't *really* strings if they really aren't strings at all... especially when what we're doing *works*?

Well, I guess there's a risk assessment that has to be done in each case. Usually painful event occurs as a result of a misconception that makes us re-evaluate it. I think that someone can get a lot of mileage out of the fantasy that they are controlling reality. But I can think of some instances where that fantasy can hurt a person a lot.

Re: uncertainty... it's freaky. The more we know about the velocity, the less we can know about the position, and the other way about. Observing something changes it. Is it awareness that causes this? Does this say something more about us or the behavior of the particle? We don't even really know what awareness is so this makes things even more perplexing, I think. That something that really is in an indeterminate state until observed, not just in an unknown state, but that the cat really is neither alive nor dead or maybe both alive and dead... or even alive and dead and neither alive nor dead or maybe something even crazier than that, and then all of a sudden the probability wave collapses and, boom, it is what it is... totally nuts.

I think all this is so crazy because it is so different than what we know to be true in our everyday lives. Perhaps it is beyond knowing for us? Or maybe, as we grow to understand things better and better, the solution will be found and it'll seem amazingly simple given a new perspective. It won't seem to magical or so crazy. It may even seem mundane, like so many things are to us now.

I think this stuff is so far out of our normal experience of reality that it may just be one of these things that are so strange that we cannot understand it. It may be that our brains are just not physically capable of understanding the universe. Who knows?

I am unfamiliar with the ideal gas law.

Ideal Gas Law: PV=nRT, where P= pressure, V = volume, n = a number of some sort (like moles or something) R is a constant, and T = temperature.

If you ask most people (and myself before that one lecture in physics class) why air rushes out when you pop a balloon or a tire, they'll probably answer "becasue all the air is crammed in there and all the air particles are bouncing around off each other and when there is an opening they all make a run for it, because they hate to be all crammed in such a small space like that" or something that effect.

Problem is, is that the ideal gas law was derived from a mechanical statistical model that assumes NO partical interaction. Meaning that each particle in that tire or balloon thinks its the only one in there.

The best answer my physics proff could come up with as to why they all bail out at the same time was that because there is such a low probability of all particles being in the same small space at the same time, nature automatically corrects to a more acceptable scenario according to probability.

If you want a quick, easy, entertaining read on this and other stuff, google "God's Debris" by Scott Adams (the dilbert guy). Last I checked, he had it as a free pdf download on one of his websites.

Speaking of things we 'know' to be true, answer me this question:

when I let go of my keys, why do they fall to the ground?

Seriously, everyone, give me your best shot.....

George

Wait, so you taught her that she could prevent men from raping her though right thinking that leads to right actions... but if I believe that I can prevent men from raping me through right thoughts that lead me to right actions, I'm the one who's pathetic and sad.

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That sort of thing is a far cry from visualizing that everything is ok when it may not, in fact, be ok. In fact, many women talk themselves out of their instincts that tell them that this or that particular guy is dangerous and bad... and end up in terrible situations where they are at an extreme disadvantage. Their thinking about a situation doesn't match up with what it really turns out to be, no matter how much they might want to believe that a person is not a threat and that everything is ok.

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This has nothing to do with the belief that you create your reality. Nowhere does it say, "Be a fool and stay with an abuser." Indeed, the teaching is that, either he will change or you will find it easy to move on as your thinking changes and his vibration moves out of synch with yours. Seriously, before you belittle someone's beliefs, maybe you should have clue one what you're talking about. The teaching doesn't once say "God wants you to be abused and beaten." It's not Christianity, which DOES teach that kind of stuff.

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If all she had was a fantasy, then we'd use that, and there would really be nothing wrong with it.

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Soooo... it IS okay if people live with a perception that isn't based on your version of "reality," so long as it serves them well within that reality. Making up our minds would be a good thing. Now it's okay if someone has a fantasy if it's useful to you, but at the beginning of your post, it wasn't okay if someone lives with a "fantasy" that doesn't negatively impact their life (in their opinion, not yours- I dunno who made you an expert on other peoples' happiness and lives).

Quote:

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Usually painful event occurs as a result of a misconception that makes us re-evaluate it. I think that someone can get a lot of mileage out of the fantasy that they are controlling reality. But I can think of some instances where that fantasy can hurt a person a lot.

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I was 6 when I saw my mother butchered like an animal right in front of me. I was hiding watching it, unknown to the people who killed her. Perhaps you can help me understand how I "misconstrued" that, and where my "misconception" was.

I believe that I can create my reality, because otherwise, I have to accept your version of "reality," in which the torture and violent assaults I experienced as a child are simply at the whim of someone else, and are without sense, reason, or point. That there is no spiritual value in my suffering as a child, and at any moment, upon the whim of someone bigger and stronger than me, I could once again be tortured, or watch as someone chops up one of my loved ones. According to you, I live in a world where my experiences are pointless and I am in constant likelihood of being physically assaulted and otherwise viciously attacked, and there is nothing I can do about it except act like I'm not scared and hope for the best.

I can honestly tell you that I will never again accept your version of reality. If my experiences were meaningless and I live my life at the whim of those stronger than me, shoot me now. I'm not kidding. Kill me. I don't want to live in that world. Pure and simple.

But if my experiences happened so that I can help, relate to, and give compassion and understanding to others, then I have something worth living for. If I experienced what I did for a divine reason, and not simply out of the whim of some psychotic, then I can live a degree of faith and peace. If I have control over my life, then I can walk forward in confidence that the past happened for a reason, and there is no longer any reason for me to suffer going forward into my life.

I can live my life peacefully, and be calm and confident and have peace through my tears if I do lose another loved one. I can have a life that is happy, fruitful, and worthwhile to me.

One thing that I am genuinely grateful for. You can belittle me. You can mock me. You can tell me that I don't control my life. But you can't make me believe it.

Because I control my reality. *smooches*

Phoenix,

I may not understand, but I think you're saying that if you do not create your own reality then your experience in life is meaningless. I don't see how the two necessarily have to hook up together.

I don't think my life is meaningless, nor is the life of any other being.

I believe that meaning is created and experienced by us. It comes out of the relationships we have with one another. It comes from the fact that we have minds and hearts. There is nothing metaphysical, in my mind and heart, needed for someone to be meaningful and have a meaningful life.

I can look at an ant and see it going about its little ant life and be filled with a sense of meaning. This is the meaning of the ant's life to me. It's my creation, something that I am doing with my heart and mind. Does it really have anything to do with the ant outside of my subjectivity? Who knows? What does the ant's life mean to the ant? I have no idea. But a little life can touch something inside of me. Maybe I'm just an animated bag of meat that will disappear, aside from the memories others have of me and the ways I've touched their lives, when I die? Ok. I can live with that possibility. For me it's a great probability. Does it mean that I have no meaning? Of course it doesn't.

If we had no notions of anything metaphysical, even if nothing spiritual even exists at all, there is still meaning. Why? Because we are alive and intelligent. We experience it. It is part of our lives. No extra ingredients needed.

We don't need to believe that we are creating this whole thing. To me, I feel like... well, what does that have to do with anything? The fact that I *don't* create everything means a great deal to me. It means I can experience new things. I can be surprised. I am not responsible for everything. I have my own little place in the world, and I can live my life and figure my place out in the grand scheme of things. I don't have to be the almighty creator.

*shrug*

Regarding your statement about knowing that of which you speak, hey, give me a break. There are SO many different kooky variations on the theme here that there is no possible way for me to know the variety of new age philosophy you choose to believe. In any case, if you look at what I've written again from a different perspective, I think you'll see how it applies in a way that makes sense. My point was that fantasizing about a better situation doesn't necessarily bring one to you. Decisions and actions will. Believing in the power of fantasies can get in the way. If you believe in your fantasies, you can get yourself in deep crap. Unless you see things as how they really are and DO something about it, they won't get better. They'll get worse.

I don't understand what your experiences with the traumas in your life have to do with the kinds of misconstruing I am talking about. If you think that you can fly and jump off a building, you fall on your butt and maybe break some limbs. That's the kind of misconstruing I'm talking about. In the magical thinking world of you create your own reality through your thoughts, of course the "misconstruing" doesn't make any sense. But the sort of question you asked me is a perfect question to ask these people who believe that the thoughts of a 6 year old girl could somehow create an atrocious tragedy. I don't blame anyone for bringing such experiences upon themselves by way of creating their realities by their thoughts and beliefs. How could I? It's not only irrational to even hint at that kind of causality, it's inhumane.

Regarding the woman I spoke with, I did not intend to convey to her (or to you) that she could magically prevent things from happening to her by engaging in various rituals (projecting confidence non-verbally). I hope I conveyed that she could decrease the probably of the same things happening by projecting "You can't screw with me" vs. "I am a likely victim."

You can never be 100% sure that something will or will not happen to you.

I don't see anything pathetic and sad in a person realizing that she can actually *do something* about the fix that she's in. She was in a pretty screwed up relationship or two in which she was being treated like a door-mat. She changed her approach and got into much better relationships with much better people as a result of her own actions. What's pathetic about that?

Maybe you'd call that her "changing her vibration"? I like to describe it in more specific terms. She realized how her body language was telling people "I'm a door mat" and how to generate different body language by doing what it took to access her strength and be a stronger person. Even more specific than that, we talked about how her shoulders were hunched, how she had her head down, how her movements would start but then stop. Then we focused on times in her life where she felt strong and successful and noticed how she held her head up, held her shoulders back, etc. We also talked about various people who project strength and how they move their bodies.

And you know what? It worked for her. Last I met her she was married to a smart and successful guy from England who was a really nice guy. They were happy together, and there was not a trace of mousiness in her.

While I never had to witness my mother being murdered or experience rape, the tragedy I did witness was my brother being hit by a car and being severely brain-damaged as a result. He was in a coma for a long time, and he had two strokes while in a coma. When visiting him, I saw a reality of brain-damage that I'd never seen before. A full ward of people with brain-damage were being treated along with my brother. Some of the stories were harrowing. One guy turned a wrong corner and, bam, for no reason a bunch of thugs beat him near to death, leaving him with permanent brain-damage.

I heard many stories like that. To me the violence and the tragedies were meaningless, in a sense. They were totally unnecessary in many cases. That, I think, is one of the things that defines a real tragedy, the senselessness of it.

But we are human beings, and where there is no sense, we create it, because we must. It is a part of our spirits, if you will, as human beings. It's part of what makes us what we are. So, we go about building a meaning for these things.

In my view, these are all personal artifices. These are our own personal creations. We struggle and define meaning for ourselves. Pure materialists, staunch atheists do it as much as those who are totally religious. The particulars will differ, but it's all deeply meaningful to each individual.

I had to define my own meaning for what happened to my brother and my family as a result of the accident. It does not involve God. It does not involve fate. It involves decision, chance, and the strength of the human spirit. By human spirit I do not mean something metaphysical, rather I mean an inner strength, what makes us who we are as individuals, what keeps us going.

When I spoke about functional fantasies earlier, I made it a point to indicate building upward from that point. If someone is delusional, sometimes using the delusions to get them in touch with reality is the best approach.

If you want to believe you create your reality, then I guess I am just a part of that, right? You created me here. So, in essence you are having an argument with yourself. So, as long as I am providing some kind of metaphysical service for you at your current vibration level, let me just say this....

It doesn't bother me so much that people engage in magical thinking. We all do it. What bothers me is that people who do it, albeit for their own purposes that purportedly work for them, don't seem to even want to think that, hey, maybe this is just some kind of functional illusion?

I mean, the whole thing breaks down when you take a good look at the world. Not every kid gets a pony. Santa Claus doesn't exist despite the shedload of kids who are duped into believing in him. The guy who believed in God's protection so firmly that he got into a cage with a tiger and shouted, "This tiger will not harm me because God is protecting me!" got mauled to death by the tiger. He believed strongly enough to get into that cage, yet his belief didn't save him.

Rock breaks scissors. If you jump off a building believing you can fly, you're gonna fall, regardless. I mean, these things are just plain facts.

Not to demean the power of belief or anything, because great people who do great deeds have great beliefs. Their beliefs often can be said to be irrational when you look at the odds that were against them, but thank goodness they were irrational.

They created new realities through their beliefs, however, not because they created thought forms in the astral plane which created attractors to future timelines in which their dreams were already realities or anything like that. Their beliefs created the new realities because they enabled these people to act.

That's the difference that makes the difference, I think.

Sometimes we are at the whim of those stronger than us, but that doesn't mean that we are completely powerless. Natan Sharansky in Fear No Evil talks about his experiences in the gulag where he was brutalized in many, many different ways and wasn't sure if he'd ever get out. Part of his salvation came in the recognition that no one could shame him but himself. They could do whatever they wanted to him, but he held his belief that none of that was shameful on his behalf. Only he could shame himself. So he upheld himself in his own way.

He also found various ways in which he could turn the tables on his oppressors. I don't remember the details, but there was a certain word they used to describe a fate that prisoners all feared. He noticed they liked to use it and that he became fearful of it. So he decided to use that word whenever he could while in their presence. It was a subtle form of rebellion. He let them know that they couldn't bully him.

I looks like we disagree fundamentally on a lot of points, and it may not seem like it, but I do not what to turn you into a carbon copy of myself belief-wise... like I could ever do that. No one has that power. Maybe if my thoughts created reality, I could. But they don't, so I can't. Go ahead and believe whatever you want to believe, you will anyway. I don't entertain the illusion that anything I say will sway you one way or another.

You may not create your reality or have God-like control over it, but you do have a big hand in how you interpret events. That's personal. That's your own creation. You did it with me, by framing what my posts meant to you in your life. Was that my purpose? Maybe to you. I have my own purposes and intentions, and beyond that (and totally out of my control) what I say will mean something different to each person who reads what I write. That's because each individual is the artificer not of their realities but of what each event in their realities means to them personally.

In any case, thanks for the big smooch.

GW,

Why do your keys fall to the ground?

Simple.

Elves. Tiny, invisible elves.

They are all over the place, looking for things to carry downward toward the earth. It's an obsession with them.