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#66844 07/25/08 09:10 PM
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Josiah Offline OP
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Can anyone direct me to peer-reviewed studies validating the usefulness of SFQ or Qigong in general? A skeptical family member asked me if any existed. Thank you,

-Josiah

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Josiah,

Though a reasonable question and request, I think it presents all kinds of problems:

1) most of the best "serious" scientific and medical research has been done in China and Japan. Due to the way money is allocated to research here in the West, it much harder to get funding for such studies.

2) skepticism can be very healthy and my experience with qigong healing is that it is perfectly fine to be skeptical. It works anyway! ;\) As Chunyi Lin says, "In SFQ, if you believe it, it works! If you don't believe it... it still works! However, it may work faster if you believe it. But either way it works."

Nevertheless, for many people, skepticism of anything that is alien or strange is almost like a religion and there is nothing that will convince them (short of their own experience of healing. And even then sometimes! )

3) I don't have any special knowledge of such studies, I just entered into google, "peer-review" "qigong" and came up with some links. However, from my quick photoreading perusal of what I found, people who are skeptical will still be after reading most of this material. It will not change their mind.

It is mostly a dead end to try and do so. Master Lin tends to dissuade us from trying to "convince" people of the validity of this. For those who are in need of healing and are willing to at least let us "practice", they will often be convinced, or at least will question their own skepticism.

But whether they are convinced or not, is not important. The important thing is to still help them if we can, and if they heal, it is irrelevant whether they attribute it to qigong, time, their medical treatments, God, or whatever.

4) Peer-reviewed studies have all kinds of problems anyway, and don't necessarily show validity!

For example, this excerpt from the Wikipedia article, states it very nicely:
Wikipedia Peer-review critques
 Quote:
Richard Horton, editor of the British medical journal The Lancet, has said that "The mistake, of course, is to have thought that peer review was any more than a crude means of discovering the acceptabilitynot the validity [italics mine] — of a new finding. Editors and scientists alike insist on the pivotal importance of peer review. We portray peer review to the public as a quasi-sacred process that helps to make science our most objective truth teller. But we know that the system of peer review is biased, unjust, unaccountable, incomplete, easily fixed, often insulting, usually ignorant, occasionally foolish, and frequently wrong." [11]


Here are a few links that I found. The first one, a book review, I think sums up the problem nicely also:
qigongbookreview

Here is a list of others:

qigongpapers

This next site has many little articles on medical studies done using Tai Chi (which itself features qigong and in any serious Tai Chi school, Qigong will be also studied as part of the Tai Chi practice):
WorldTaiChiDay

For example, this one:
Tai Chi & Cancer

Or this one on Tai Chi, Qigong and Fybromyalgia:
Qigong & Fybromyalgia

This little article from the Ohio State University Medical School summarizes qigong in medical applications and sums up the problems with trying to use research to validate it:

Ohio State University

To wit, this quote:
 Quote:
The Science
Most scientific reports were published as abstracts in Chinese, which makes accessing the information difficult. But Sancier has collected more than 2,000 records in his Qi gong database, which indicates that qi gong has extensive health benefits on conditions ranging from blood pressure to asthma. The reported studies, however, are largely anecdotal case series and not randomized controlled trials. Few studies have been conducted outside China and reported in peer-reviewed journals in English. There have been no large clinical trials. A search of PubMed found 13 small but clinically relevant trials. The strongest evidence seems to be for lowering moderately elevated blood pressure. One interesting, but so far un-replicated, study found a 1,000 fold increase in magnetic field strength around the hands of an experienced Qi-gong practitioner. What that may mean clinically is unclear and whether this study can be replicated is yet to be seen.


Anyway, there is a lot more like all of the above. I am skeptical ;\) about any of these things helping someone who is into "scientism" or with strong materialist bias open their mind.

What will help is more healing!

So that is what I focus on.

Anyway, I hope this helps you in some small way. Thanks for asking. I learned somethings from this.

 Originally Posted By: Josiah
Can anyone direct me to peer-reviewed studies validating the usefulness of SFQ or Qigong in general? A skeptical family member asked me if any existed. Thank you,

-Josiah

Last edited by shakurav; 07/30/08 08:11 AM.

blessings,

Steve
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And here's another interesting article that does indeed seem to be "peer-reviewed":

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=59661

This study article admits that there were no blind trials or controls and though the study seems to merit further research, does not "prove" anything.

But again, keep in mind, that "peer-reviewed" really does not = validity. For instance, I found an article from one of the skeptic society sites that really rips a "peer-reviewed" study on the effects of prayer on inducing pregnancy in infertile women. The study was incredibly flawed by most scientific standards, and some of the people involved in the study, were suspect for a whole host of reasons. It was published in the Journal of Reproductive Medicine and the research was done at the "prestigious Columbia University Medical Center in New York".

Nevertheless, though "peer-reviewed", it is now used by skeptics to further poke holes at things they are already convinced are nonsense. And because there are legitimate reasons to doubt this research, it probably also makes it harder for more such research to be done.

I really find that the value of Qigong in general and SFQ in particular is "in the fruits". The best way to influence people is the same way to get to Carnegie Hall (ala the old joke): PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!


blessings,

Steve
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You can dig around in here, although most won't cut it.
http://www.qigonginstitute.org/main_page/main_page.php

Much Love, Shawn

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Yes, my first and second link in my message are to http://www.qigonginstitute.org, the first one was supposed to be a book review, and the second one being their page of links to studies and article. Actually, both are the same: their page of links. I just used the LSC handy dandy toolbar--the first tool being "create a link to a webpage".

http://www.qigonginstitute.org/html/papers.php

My first link, also from the qigonginstitute articles & studies page was supposed be this one:
http://www.qigonginstitute.org/html/Chen/Qi_Review1.htm

This article is the one I referred to as outlining the problem of why as Shawn so elagantly puts it, "most won't cut it".
The article, "A Criticism of Qigong with Pseudoscience Method-- Book Review of [u]Qigong: Chinese Medicine or Pseudoscience?["/u] by Kevin Chen, Ph.D. MPH is an excellent article and review and really lays out the problems I spoke about, which is my long-winded and much less elegant way of saying, "most won't cut it". ;\)

I especially direct people to look at Dr. Chen's points, 3 & 4, as he points out the problems with this "debunker's handbook"

Just FYI to anyone reading this thread.

Also much love,

Steve

 Originally Posted By: Shawn_Grim
You can dig around in here, although most won't cut it.
http://www.qigonginstitute.org/main_page/main_page.php

Much Love, Shawn



blessings,

Steve
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People tend to be very resistant to changing their (our) opinion about things.

I have gotten into more religion / spirituality debates on internet message boards than I can remember and I'll tell you what - I don't know of anyone who has ever changed a deeply-held belief about something by reading something about it on the internet.

In my own family I've found that a lot of people are quite skeptical about things like Reiki and Qigong. This is especially true when they're in groups of two or more; seems like a "mob mentality" kicks in and it becomes more fun to MAKE fun than to discuss the issues intelligently.

My experience has been that it's more effective to let it be known that I am a practitioner and let it go at that. If someone is interested they can approach me one-on-one for a civilized discussion. But even then, I try not to lecture, I give examples - I mention the fact that it's quite common in China to see crowds of people in the parks every day practicing Tai Chi and Qigong.
If they're open I extend an invitation to join me in practice or I'll show them one simple move and explain the benefits.

But getting into a long discussion with a group of skeptics?

No thanks.

It's a no-win situation.

I used to post on a message board for Holosync and the discussion turned toward spirituality. It rapidly degenerated into one of the most hate-filled, intolerant christophobic diatribes that I have ever had the misfortune to read.

As it turns out, as long as you agree with some people you're OK. But if you dare to disagree you become persona non grata.

One good thing about that though, it makes it easy to find out who your friends are.



Last edited by monkbiker; 08/03/08 09:31 PM.

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