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#7222 02/02/04 02:35 PM
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Looking back at my response, I see that it was too reactive. That tells me that I have still a long way to go. I already used the Anxiety Free side A once, but I think I need to break down my goal. Maybe, this made the situation worse. I was watching a thriller titled "Unfaithful" yesterday and I found it unbearable. I had to stop the DVD player to continue later many times and I didn't manage to finish it. I'm just too picky now. It's part of the process, I think.

But now that things seem to have settled, since you appear to be an experienced trader, I have some questions.

What trading forums you use to visit?

quote:
From your original post:
You must have a good plan that works for you.

I'm working on that plan now. It is still not "perfect" (meaning, totally tested), but my paper trades are showing positive balance of winnings against loses.

quote:
You must have a certain mindset before you call your broker and everyday after that you are in the market.

I'm working on that mindset with the course I'm taking. Yet, it would be more helpful if you give me some details about the mindset you are referring to. I have been learning what successful mindsets would be from the motivators and educators points of view, but a feedback from an actual trader would be really helpful.

quote:
You must keep your emotions in check, ...

I think that being able to be confident and wise (not overconfident), would be the ideal situation. That way I think we would think clearer. What is your experience on this?

quote:
and you must have more winning trade's than losing trade's.

The winnings should outweight the losses, at least that's what the course I'm taking says. But it says that there are times when I'll lose big bucks, it doesn't say that there might be times when I might lose more than my winnings though. Could it be so? I have thought that the key to cut loses is being everwatchful on the portfolio and never regret a decision to close a trade, even when the prices pick up after it, better safe than sorry. It also says that if I get a margin call, then I should close the trade. At least this seem to be the experience on the course's author. What is yours on this?

quote:
Straight options, futures and options, are you going to be a seasonal trader, fundamental traders,( probably not )technical trader, combination of the two,

I'm focusing on futures because the course I'm taking is on futures. Options may be a new choice for a future in which I'm already experienced on futures.

I'm not very familiar with all those terms yet. I'm going maybe too slowly since I decided to train for a full year. So I want to ask;

What is a seasonal trader?, fundamental trader?, technical trader?

I suppose that the technical trader is the one that make use of the prices only along with an algorithm (maybe using computers)to try to predict the direction that the market will take. But I'm planning to take a combination of what there may exist. I intend to learn Photoreading to take advantage of all the tools I could handle. Imagestream could help me on this too by doing it after having photoread printed material on the commodities I'd trade. This could change as the year passes and I learn more. During the year, I plan to photoread more books on futures to expand my knowledge.

quote:
will you get involved in commitment of traders as a tool,

What is a commitment of traders? Advantages? Disadvantages?

quote:
and speaking of tools,will you use software to help you with your trade's and if you do what indicators will you use?

I don't know of any software. Do you know of any good one?

quote:
Some market are easier than others for new traders, some market you should stay away form all together. some markets you could not afford to trade.

What markets are easier? Are there markets that are not good even for experienced traders? I know that there are markets in which a single contract might cost too much for the available money, I think that's what you were talking about.

quote:
You must also consider what kind of trading you would like to do, Long term, short term day trader, swing trader.

I have not decided yet. I tried some paper trades using the outside day method to identify trades, but almost all of them failed. It was almost a joke, everytime I looked for the new prices on a trade opened the day before, it happened to have moved against me. I revised the formula I was using many times and looked on the internet to see if the course was wrong; but I didn't find anything wrong with it. I discarded the outside day system because I failed with it. I may be experimenting a lot more before I decide for sure on my own method.

quote:
How about your seed money, ( account ) will you put in $1,000,$2,000,$5,000 or even $10,000 in your account. Don't even think about putting anything less than $5,000 in your account unless you are trading options and then you would have to be what they call out of the money to trade.

Do you think that $5,000 is the minimum I could begin with? That's the minimum that my course states. Do you agree?

quote:
I know the commodity guru's tell you to paper trade for three months or so. You will do this in vain. This will help you in no way when you or anyone else decides to trade for real. First of all you have nothing to lose, there is no emotion attached to the trade. You don't have to call your broker, and as they say pull the trigger. A big part of trading is emotional and being able to keep your negative thoughts under control.

Well, this is something I must disagree. If I don't paper trade, then how could I learn more effectively? By going live from the very beginning? I don't think so. I'm paper trading to learn. I acknowledge that I said at my journal's first post that I was doing it to get confidence. Now my main purpose in doing it is learning. About emotions, that's what the Ideal Mindset course is about, well, in part; it is much more than that. Bottom line, I don't think I'm paper trading in vain, not for knowing the real feeling on actually trade, that's impossible, but for learning. It's better to know a bit more by doing paper trades before doing the real thing than going without any practice at all to trade.

The negative part that I can say there is in your post is this:

quote:
DON'T DO IT!

The remaining of your post was colored with that first comment. All capitals means shouting, so you were shouting at me to not go and fulfill my goal. A futile advise given the state I am at doing the Ideal Mindset course. After all this time, I realize that you probably were mistaken on what I was about to do and when. Maybe you thought that I was about to go open an account with a broker without the needed preparations.

Telling someone to not do something is aimless, it doesn't provide direction. Instead, telling what to do instead of what not to do does give a sense of direction to your words, which translates on more effective advises. Also, if your counsels come as options on what to do, they reach the target better than if you give them as commands because we as humans always resist to be told what to do.






#7223 02/03/04 03:30 AM
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Before I answer any of your questions let me first tell you why I even bothered to comment about your Journal. I'm going to make this brief. I took an option course, took a self test that was included in the course and scored 100%I loss money in all of my first 18 trades.This happens all the time. Several years have gone by since I option traded and in hindsight I can see where I went wrong. Buying the course was my first mistake. Knowing what I know now I think I could trade options with some success, but I'm not interested.
Purchased a course in the futures market. I'm also going to make this brief. Don't forget I'm just starting to trade. I put an order in that was filled and three day later I was out $2,000 because of a mistake I make in what I told my broker. Basically after that I did the opposite of what your course tells you to do. My losses were more than my wins.
The good news is that after taking some time off and coming back with a different mindset and adjusting my trading style I became successful.
I can not answer all of your questions about trading without starting a book. So I will answer only the short answer questions.
The trading forum that I use is private, but you can do a search and find others.
I don't know what trading course you are using so I would only guess that a $5,000 account would be adequate.
I use price, time, and cycles to help me in my decision to trade.And one more thing, experience.I do not have time to explain all of this.

The negative part that I can say there is in your post is this:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DON'T DO IT!
The remaining of your post was colored with that first comment. All capitals means shouting, so you were shouting at me to not go and fulfill my goal. A futile advise given the state I am at doing the Ideal Mindset course.
You are right.

I have to run now, but tomorrow I will tell you about my mindset,and how to take my story and use it for your benefit. So don't look at it with a negative feeling.

Dennis







#7224 02/03/04 12:59 PM
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quote:
I have to run now, but tomorrow I will tell you about my mindset,and how to take my story and use it for your benefit. So don't look at it with a negative feeling.

I'll be waiting for your story.... and I won't take it negatively this time..... I promise .






#7225 02/03/04 01:50 PM
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quote:
I don't know what trading course you are using so I would only guess that a $5,000 account would be adequate.

It seems that I was lucky on my choice. You know, we get too much mail on propaganda. My traditional mindset is to discard all of it as misleading ads, but I have learnt to trust my instincts and many times I have found I was right on my intuition. Last year I got a brochure on this course titled "How to Make Money in Commodity Futures". It painted a bright picture on trading commodities and how "easy" it was to do it. I normally throw those things away, but this one caught my attention. I let it sit on my desk for maybe one or two days and then I ordered it. I didn't go shopping for a course on futures. I don't know if it was sheer luck or my instincts telling me something, but now I'm getting the impression that my course is one in a million. Apparently, it tells what others don't, even contradicting what it's propaganda told me. Until now, I haven't stepped into something really bad by doing those things. Have I some strong intuition? Have I been just lucky? I cannot tell for sure, I'm a man and traditionally women have had the reputation of having strong senses of intuition, not that men are devoided of it.






#7226 02/03/04 02:38 PM
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Many of the fortune 500 business leaders have strong intuition and often rely on it.

When interviewed on how they make thier most important decisions, they declined to be identified. They said something along the lines of "I just know, I trust my gut. Just don't tell the shareholders."

Alex






#7227 02/04/04 03:23 AM
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I'm going to take a chance and let you take a peak at what's going inside my head. Basically my mindset and how I view the world. I'm only doing this because I care, so lets get started.
All that I am about to explain to you here is nothing new. I'm sure it is written down somewhere in the pages of a book or on a tape, and so others may have this same view. The difference is that I really believe in it, so it is mine.
When I start typing you will see a lot of the word YOU, I am talking about me its just flows a lot easier to say you than me this and me that or even I.

It is important that you (me) have a core belief. My mindset didn't start in the commodity market, it started in my real life. I personally think you must be at peace with yourself before you can accomplish anything in life.
Maybe something from your past has given you pain.If that is the case then your core beliefs have got to go, and a new set of beliefs must replace them. Beliefs you can live with. A belief that is conducive to your health and well being.

Do you ever have mood swings? You get up in the morning and it feels like a good day, things are clicking and then for no apparent reason your mood changes, I mean the rest of the day sucks. what happen?

Do you ever beat up on yourself? Call yourself names, feel worthness, walk around with your head hanging down. Feel anxious and feel there is no more hope for you. Do you find yourself starting project with much enthusiasm only to lose interest.

There is a voice in your head that you communicate with. You think with it, you plan with it, it helps you get through the day.There is also a voice that is not your friend, matter a fact it is trying to destroy you in any way it can.I don't know what it is, call it a evil spirit or something else, it doesn't matter. I think we are born with it and the older we get the worse it gets.

Here is the challenge, fix that problem and the rest will come easier. Don't look at the outside for help. Start on the inside and work your way out.

We all have this voice, the good,the bad ,and ugly but some of us have learned to deal with it. What gives me comfort in all of this is knowing that I'm not alone. So if I'm a freak of nature, so is everyone else.<grin>

If you think this is too extreme for your belief system don't discount it yet. After all I'm doing this for you not me.

This can be said in a number of ways and has been said in many ways but I will just say that you need to find out who or what is pushing your buttons.

AT this time I would like to say that if this sound like I am lecturing you, I apologize in advance. I am trying to show you what works for me and how I got here. I think I need to stop here. When I started I didn't know exactly where I was going with this but here we are. I really need to know if you want to hear the rest.

Dennis








#7228 02/04/04 12:38 PM
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Thanks for sharing.

There are specially a point with which I can perfectly relate to:

quote:
Do you find yourself starting project with much enthusiasm only to lose interest.

That's something that use to happen to me a lot. That's the main reason why I decided to make my Ideal Mindset course journal online in this forum, I knew that this can help me remain in focus; I think that if I'd do this privately, I'd have abandoned the project long ago.

I do really want to hear the rest. Your story is similar to mine in some points, different in other points. Yet I believe that the negative voice (negative self-talk) is more like a learnt habit than something born with. That voice can be taught to talk positively. Yes, this is something about which I have read much. The Ideal Mindset course have something to say about it.






#7229 02/05/04 04:47 AM
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Glad to see your still with me.You Said: I believe that the negative voice (negative self-talk) is more like a learnt habit than something born with. That voice can be taught to talk positively. Yes, this is something about which I have read much. The Ideal Mindset course have something to say about it.

Believe me I'm no expert, and you may be half right in my opinion. We probably are not born with this self talk problem that we all experience, but we have this innate ability to store all negative feeling that we have had thrown our way sense man and women first started thinking. If you look back at history, and even in the bible you will find stories written by people trying to explain the inner voice that is working against what they are trying to get done and being frustrated with a lack of understanding.

The other thing that you brought up: That voice can be taught to talk positively.

I am sure I'm going against what you are taught but, I don't think so, and again no expert here just my own experience.

I still have the negative self talk and I'm sure it will always be with me. So what do I do about it. I am alway aware that it is here and I need to keep it in its place.

This is how I look at it. I live in a bad neighborhood with a bunch of noisy neighbors and I got this one neighbor that's always coming over to my place to give me free advice. He has no job, he wears no shoe's because he doesn't own a pair, he wears dirty clothe, and he smells bad. Is this someone I want to listen to?

My point is this, a unwelcome neighbor which doubles as my inner unwanted voice needs to be put in place all the time. He has a short memory so I must stay watchful and catch him at the door. What I do, and this can be hard at times, is to pay attention to what is going on in my surroundings, stay in the moment as much as I can. I sit down in a quiet place and just let my mind wander and go anywhere it wants to go. Before you know it you are thinking about something that makes you uneasy. Try to capture that moment, and figure out how you got their. I don't do this all the time because it happens enough in my ever day life. What I will learn from this would be different from what you would learn. Why don't you start on one of your courses ( make it for real )and try to stay in the moment and see where it takes you. What you are looking for here is what tiggered your decision to quit something or what ever else it might be.

Here is something else you might try. I am the Captain of my ship. I make all my own decisions. good or bad I made them and nobody else. There is no room for another Captain. You can only work for me and if your good I won't throw you overboard. This is not an affirmation. It is only to make a point. Your running the show.

We are a creature of habit.( nothing new here) My experience tells me that when this happens,(habit) Yo get up in the morning, do all the morning things, I'll bet you can't remember exactly what you did for the last 30 minutes. Take another part of the day and you will experience the same problems. What's really alarming is when you are driving a car and all of a sudden you wake up and don't remember how you got that far.

When your thoughts are sitting idle that is a signal for the other leech to sneak in.

This is what I do. I try to stay away from habits. A few examples would be When I run the microwave I don't set it for 1min. or 2min. I will set it for 1min. 43sec.2min. 11sec. that way I'm in charge. When I shave I use to start on my neck, work my way over to my chin and then do both cheeks and last I would do the part under my nose. Now I start and finish somewhere different. One day I may put my right shoe on first and the next day my left shoe on first. You get the picture.

What do I do when the voice comes? The first thing I do is try to figure out what tiggered it ( explained before ) and then I run my thoughts.( no room for both ) I may say, Oh no you don't! I know what you are trying to do. Your not getting your way, I'm in control here, get back in your hole with the rest of the leeches. Do not say this out loud. This works for me, I live it. Its hard to remember at times, but like they say anything worth having is worth working for. For me this is a big part of doing away with procrastination. I will give you the other part tomorrow and my mindset for commodity trading.

Dennis






#7230 02/05/04 02:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dolson1018:
Believe me I'm no expert, and you may be half right in my opinion. We probably are not born with this self talk problem that we all experience, but we have this innate ability to store all negative feeling that we have had thrown our way sense man and women first started thinking.

Guess what? I don't think so either . Back in 2002, when I took the Sedona Method and before taking it, I used to believe that same thing. After taking Sedona, I believe that babies as well as very little children don't repress their emotions; they most likely release them. The Sedona Method claims to be the natural ability to release our emotions just like babies and very little children do. I have seen this many times from then. I have six nephews, one of them are under the first two years. I can see how he gets mad for something, he gets silent for a few minutes and then he come happily after, as if nothing had happened. Not so for adults. When an adult get mad for something, he/she dwells much longer on it and afterwards, that emotion continues haunting him/her for longer. I myself had an experience while one of my Holosync meditations in which I vividly recalled a very early moment in my childhood. One of the pieces of information I got was how I used to manage my emotions by then; I remembered that I didn't struggle with them. I believe that the habit of repressing our emotions is learnt as well. From early in our lives, our parents teach us to repress our emotions; when a parent gets mad at a crying child, he/she usually says to him/her: "sit down and be quiet", and maybe spank him/her for crying. The attitudes of the bulk of the people tells us to not show some emotions too. I believe that the whole environment in which we live teaches us to repress, not that we are born with it.

quote:
The other thing that you brought up: That voice can be taught to talk positively.

I am sure I'm going against what you are taught but, I don't think so, and again no expert here just my own experience.


Now I'm going to tell you my experience so far with the Ideal Mindset course in what that inner voice concerns. I passed two of the stages on that course; New History Generator and Prosperity. Before, I always thought negatively about my future. That voice used to repeat "I cannot do that", "I can't afford it", well, you might know what I'm talking about. Afterwards, I find myself talking to myself "I'm going to afford a big house", "I'm going to afford an aircraft", etc. Does my inner voice changed it's habits? I think so.

quote:
I still have the negative self talk and I'm sure it will always be with me. So what do I do about it. I am alway aware that it is here and I need to keep it in its place.

I don't know you and thus I'm a poor judge, but if you really believe that it will always be with you, then it will always be during your whole lifetime.

quote:
My point is this, a unwelcome neighbor which doubles as my inner unwanted voice needs to be put in place all the time. He has a short memory so I must stay watchful and catch him at the door. What I do, and this can be hard at times, is to pay attention to what is going on in my surroundings, stay in the moment as much as I can. I sit down in a quiet place and just let my mind wander and go anywhere it wants to go. Before you know it you are thinking about something that makes you uneasy. Try to capture that moment, and figure out how you got their. I don't do this all the time because it happens enough in my ever day life. What I will learn from this would be different from what you would learn. Why don't you start on one of your courses ( make it for real )and try to stay in the moment and see where it takes you. What you are looking for here is what tiggered your decision to quit something or what ever else it might be.

Very interesting approach, it can be followed by choosing a paraliminal and work with it from the inner mind. You know, changes come faster if they emerge from your inner self and paraliminal tapes can help in achieving so. I think there are no paraliminal available now to buy, but during the year, they will be released on CD.

quote:
When your thoughts are sitting idle that is a signal for the other leech to sneak in.

This is what I do. I try to stay away from habits. A few examples would be When I run the microwave I don't set it for 1min. or 2min. I will set it for 1min. 43sec.2min. 11sec. that way I'm in charge. When I shave I use to start on my neck, work my way over to my chin and then do both cheeks and last I would do the part under my nose. Now I start and finish somewhere different. One day I may put my right shoe on first and the next day my left shoe on first. You get the picture.


I have read something about what they call "brain gymn" or whatever (I'm not sure on the term). If I remember correctly, you give your mind a "workout" by doing things differently each time.

quote:
What do I do when the voice comes? The first thing I do is try to figure out what tiggered it ( explained before ) and then I run my thoughts.( no room for both ) I may say, Oh no you don't! I know what you are trying to do. Your not getting your way, I'm in control here, get back in your hole with the rest of the leeches. Do not say this out loud. This works for me, I live it. Its hard to remember at times, but like they say anything worth having is worth working for. For me this is a big part of doing away with procrastination.

The strategy then is to keep the voice in check. I think it could be more effective to teach it to talk possitively. As I mentioned above, I find myself doing positive self-talk, I believe it to be possible.

quote:
I will give you the other part tomorrow and my mindset for commodity trading.

I'll be waiting for it.






#7231 02/05/04 09:50 PM
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I have to agree with Betsemes on the point of the inner voice. I know from my own expierience that you can make that inner voice talk positivley. That inner voice is your subconsious programming trying to tell you why you cant do something. So instead of living with it, you are able and should program it to talk positivley. One good way to do this is through auto-suggestion. I highly recommend the book "Think & Grow Rich". It has exercises to reprogram your subconsious, along with your whole life.

-Benny






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