Forums IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ Paraliminals, Paraliminal Resets, Paraliminal Walkabouts, Natural Brilliance, Sonic Access Fear: Talking to girls. What can I do?

Hey, NokPhill

Alex is right on the money about the anxiety and sales Paraliminals. That's the first thing that came to my mind, as well. However, I have to say that I was especially excited by 4space's suggestion! Dancing lessons!

I realize you can already find your way around the dance floor, but I'm talking skill, here. There's a big difference between casual hip movement and real live-wire, spirit-inspiring, hard-driving, highly skillful dance. When a woman sees a man who exhibits an advanced degree of artistic, physical competence, she will automatically gravitate to him. It's just a given. Just like musicians getting girls, men who dance VERY WELL get girls, too.

In my opinion, it's also important to take the kind of dancing lessons that require you to physically hold another student/partner, such as ballroom or even Latin dancing. If you just go out and learn the coolest dance steps, there is no real interaction required between the students. But when you have to hold your partner, this allows you to get used to getting up close with a girl, and coordinating your moves with hers, in unison. And you're more apt to meet and make a female friend this way, who might possibly like you for more than just a friend, because she has been given the opportunity to get to know you, by dancing with you in a dance class.

Let me tell you, NokPhill, from a woman's experience, what I've seen. When I've been to dance clubs, believe it or not, even the "good-looking" guys were usually somewhat inhibited about asking a girl to dance. I could tell that they were nervous, by the way they would ask me, and how they would react if I said "no thank you, not right now". But then there were the shorter, average to homely looking ones who would be beaming and bursting with confidence and a great sense of humor, and just would NOT let me alone! No matter how fervent my "no" was! So I would usually give in, and have a great time with them.

I don't know what you look like, but it really doesn't matter that much, as long as you make the best of what you have, by accentuating your assets. (Okay, you know what I mean! ) Self-confidence without egotism, and a casual healthy sense of humor are real turn-on's. Build your self-confidence like a body-builder builds his muscles. Use a little exposure therapy, by putting yourself on the front lines and getting turned down so many times, that it doesn't bother you anymore. In fact, be excited about getting rejected, so that you can get to the next one as fast as possible, because the more "no's" you get past, the sooner you'll get to that "yes"! Just like in sales, it's a numbers game.

The best way to start is by role playing or rehearsing. Simply arrange for female relatives or friends, in the spirit of fun, to intentionally turn you down as you pretend to ask them to dance (or go out), so that you will become desensitized to their refusals. Practice on them, because their no's aren't really much of a threat, anyway. Then work your way up to the real thing, and practice, practice, practice.

Okay, I understand there is a stumbling block with conversation. Well, I've been there, I know exactly how it feels. Let me tell you several ways you can cure that problem.

First, if you have the bucks, I would recommend taking the Dale Carnegie Course. I took it back in 1982, and it opened me up, big time. It's hands-on, person-to-person, and group participation, that get those butterflies in your stomach flying in formation. They show you how, and MAKE you learn how to carry on a conversation with others, and speak casually in front of a group, and provide you with lots of practical advice. The thing is, NokPhill, you can learn by studying, you can learn by listening, but nothing beats doing it with expert coaches guiding you, and everyone cheering you on, the whole way. If you can swing it financially, you'll be grateful that you did. It's something you'll never forget and will always appreciate having done. It's also a big plus on a job resume. But if you can't afford it yet, that's okay, because you can always buy the books.

Then, after you get the books, march over to your local Toastmasters Club and join up. Everyone helps and supports each other in their quest for gaining confidence and skill with public speaking, human relations, and personal effectiveness. And it's a great way to MEET WOMEN!

Have you ever heard of Zig Ziglar? I have a tape of his that I've started listening to, called "Success and the Self-Image". He has excellent step-by-step, real-life instructions on what you can actually do that will improve your self-image.

Also, to be perfectly blunt, as a woman I do not wish to hold a conversation with a man who won't talk to me the same way he would with one of his own friends. In other words, I want a guy to be able to still appreciate, yet be able to look past the feminine mystique, and see me as a human being with a mind and as well as a heart, and other things. And whatever you do, please don't try to think up any artificial "pick-up" lines. Just be REAL and as natural as you possibly can. This is why it pays for a man to have female friends, or lots of sisters, so that you are used to seeing them as ordinary people, without the sex part blinding the brain and putting you in a *TILT* mode.

Merlin, who is very wise, said it well: [QUOTE]Here is a frame of mind for you when you want to talk to a woman. "I just want to make her smile." If you make this your frame instead of "How do I seduce her?", talking suddenly becomes easier, because the pressure is off. Also, talk to all women. Young, old, ugly, beautiful... don't single out just a select group to talk to, talk to them all.[QUOTE]

Is that cool, or what?

Oh, one more thing about dancing. Have you ever known anyone who dances skillfully and wholeheartedly, who suffers from depression? There's something almost magical about it. This is the kind of dancing changes a mood, almost instantly and sometimes dramatically. I recall a story that I heard one time, about "The Tarantella Dance". In English, it's translated as "Tarantula Spider". There are several versions, but the one I'm familiar with was when a traveling Gypsy would accidentally be bitten by a poisonous spider, he would dance so feverishly, for so long, that the venom would be eliminated by the body's highly-intensified metabolism and profuse sweating. Likewise, since depression is a mental poison, it only makes sense that dancing with a sense of complete abandon would help to flush it out, and clear the mind for better thinking.

I promise you, when you've learned how to think and speak more clearly on your feet in front of a group, and your body's pumped up with a phenomenal dance workout, you will become one of the most popular guys in town, and never again will you have a problem getting a woman's attention. And while your bar-room buddies are filling themselves with beer and liquor for courage and calling it "fun", you'll be fit as a finely-tuned violin and making music with the women.

IMPORTANT NOTE: I used to be a bartender and club manager for about 18 years, and I learned the hard way that most relationships that begin in nightclub, end in a nightclub. And the cycle is perpetual, because it's "easy-pickin's". Plus most people who frequent such places are alcoholics, or fast on the road to becoming one. My advice here, is to by all means, go there and have fun, and dance to your heart's delight. But keep your "good judge of character" antennas up and exercise restraint, because you want things to be right.

[This message has been edited by SHEANIMA (edited September 13, 2004).]

THANK YOU all for your suggestions.. I have looked through them and they are many.. I have not had the time to try everything yet, but thinking of it...

I have made a little progress last weekend. I have joined a club, a Lair (group of people) who are very much into seduction.
They were under "wingman" at www.fastseduction.com.
They use almost everything on seduction that is out there, like Ross Jeffries etc. And some are really good at it.. Good at opening girls up as an example.. I was out saturday night, early in the afternoon, and had an appointment with the group at a cafe.. I met them, and we found a place to sat down in the cafe and talked about some openingslines and other NLP stuff for seduction... One just left the table, and walked over to 5 girls sitting at another table.. I even dared not to look, it felt embarassing to see him do that.. But hey, he made them all smile*g*.. And he was telling them a "seduction story".. Later on we went to a nightclub, and on the way to it some of the people in the group start picking on girls in the street who we met, telling them "hey, you walk in the wrong direction*s and then start a conversation".. It was very funny. Have never ever seen anything like that. I can't do that yet.. not at all.

Then we got to the nightclub, and I was standing in the bar with some of the other guys. Then a girl walked up to me and standing beside me.. I beside her.. I then relaxed, noticed what was going on, and saw that she has ordered about 5 drinks.. Then I relaxed even more (tried Natural Brilliance).. And did not what to say. Just standing at her side.. Then it struct me, that I could ask her "Are all these drinks for you?".. But I couldnt.. then I relaxed even more. And suddenly I just start talking to her, asking about the drinks for you, and how old people are in this nightclub etc etc.. And we talked for about 5 minutes.. Then she left with her drinks, and said that maybe we can talk later, when the disco beneath the bar starts...

And then the others in the group told me, good going etc.. And I was suprised.. I really did it.

And later a new girl came up to me, standing beside me, and order a drink, and I talked to her too... Just relaxed, finding out what I want to say, relaxed even deeper, and then start talking to her... But only did that 2 times that night. Not much, but a good start I think.. Just going over to a girl am I not ready for yet, or am I? I don't feel that...

One advice I read is going over to a girl in the street and just say hi to them, is very hard to do yet... Often I sit in a bus, and when a girl comes up next to me, and sit down there too, I just can't start a conversation... My looks is quite ok, but still It's very difficult to start a conversation.. Have never tried yet to go up to a girl and start talking to her.

But I'm looking forward to see what will happened next..

By the way, I have listened to New Behavior Generator for some days (don't have anxiety free or Sales Leap) for 1 week before last weekend. After listening to that I feel a little thrive for wanting to talk to a woman. Not much, but I can feel something in me wants to do that.. And so I did last weekend*s.. So I think I will continue to do that..

Kim.

zeus,

This evening, I thought I might email you with a few questions about the EFT info you provided, but I got a message saying that my email could not be delivered to that address (the one that was in your Learning Strategies profile).

So I'll copy & paste my letter I sent to you, here:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear zeus,

Thank you for your reference to www.emofree.com in "Paraliminal Learning, Fear: Talking to girls. What can I do?"

I visited the URL you posted, and found the site VERY interesting. I'd never heard of EFT, so was naturally somewhat skeptical at first, because there's so much silliness out there that I don't buy into. But from what I've learned after spending a good deal of time researching it, pro and con, I think this stuff really works.

Have you used it? If so, I'd be interested in not only the results, but who you contacted for it, how much they charged, if it was in person or over the telephone, or if you took the course and did it yourself. It appears to have unlimited potential, which is what I find fascinating.

I look forward to your reply!

Peace and happiness,
SHEANIMA

[This message has been edited by SHEANIMA (edited September 14, 2004).]

Check out www.emotrance.com also, if you get the chance. Silvia Hartmann, who wrote Adventures in EFT, one of the top celebrated books on EFT, has actually come up with a whole new method, based on a simpler foundation of who we are as Energy beings (even simpler than EFT). And yes, it's called, suprisingly: Emotrance

( read the article named: Why EmoTrance When We've Got EFT?! )

Hoowweever, EFT does work definitely, and you can't go wrong by downloading the free manual from emofree.com by Gary Craig.

[This message has been edited by SteveBCA (edited September 15, 2004).]

Ok some major things has happened these last two weeks... I'm getting pushed out to go over to talk to girls by the club im in.. And miracously my fear of talking to women have been decreased.. But each time it was so damn terrible.. Come on Kim, you can do it etc.. They were pushing me fysically toward a group of women s. My heart was in my throat, pumping like crazy.. But after i Did it, it did not feel that bad at all... Så last time I was in town, last saturday, I just went over to a group of women and started to talk to them.. I also left the cafe table, from where we were sitting, and just walked over to two females, sitting at cafe table som distance away, and started talking to them.. Also when I'm in the street, I say hi to women I meet, it feels uncomfortable, but I still do it.. Some of them turns around and say something like "do I know you". This is really funny, but so hard to do... But my fear has decreased a lot since I started doing it.. But does not feel comfortable yet at all. Still very hard to do.. But I do it.. and that feels so great.. MAYOR change has happend... From not doing anything till doing it.. Now I must just learn to relax and have fun with it.. Maybe install a belief that says "Everything they give me, is just a toy I can play with" or "I only do this to learn to get better to seduce women.. playfully learning what works and what does not work"...or "I will do this so that we can have a great time".

I have got the Anxiety Free tape now, and keeps listening to it.. Don't really know if it helps so much on my anxiety..

By the way SHEANIMA.. You said something like that a man who has confidence keeps on hitting on the girl, even if she rejects him.. That is the most confident man.. But have difficulties finding out what you exactly mean by that.. Do you mean that if he gets a no he shall still continue trying to talk to her.. Because I have approached two woman now.. The one just said almost nothing.. The I tried the thing that "everything she gives me is just a toy I can play with", and I continued to talk to her. .to get her open up, so she would speak.. But she still said thinks like when I asked her "where are you from" she says "everywhere".. Does that really means no, or should I continue to talk to her to make her think otherwise of me? Both women did that when I approached them. The one I met in a bar, the other one someplace else...

Byt the way, that did not bother me at all.. Thought that it was quite funny the way they rejected me..*s

[This message has been edited by NokPhill (edited September 24, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by NokPhill (edited September 24, 2004).]

You said you tried all of these things in the original post, but I think you want one of these products to Zap you like celestial lightening in the first try, and you're suddenly Captain Suave, otherwise you deem the product as worthless. (excuse the exaggeration - now that you're irritated by this, and perked up, read carefully).
The principles that David DeAngelo can't fail if you actually read what he's talking about, and just 'get it' about women. Don't put so much pressure on yourself to be 'one of those guys' who can walk up to an attractive woman right from the get-go. You're making a 'rule' for yourself ( Tony Robbins in Awaken the Giant), that if you can't do 'this' successfully now, than your challenge is 'this or that' and that it's a monumental challenge requiring much conquering of yourself.
Drop that personal rule that you're holding for yourself.

The xtrememind free version of MLF has you visualize with your five senses. I'll bet you are just playing it in the background wanting it to do the work all by itself?? I listen to their products with the attitude that the subliminals and other technology are just the bonus, and I take the visualization very, very seriously. This is what has been producing results for me lately.
Putting yourself in the situation in your imagination, with Feeling, over and over again, and imagining yourself having fun with them, a'la DeAngelo-style, is where the real magic and progress happens.
Neville (someone quoted him at the XtremeMind forum, go read it) says that it's important to imagine in your mind, from your point of view, the reaction of the woman's face to this powerful new behaviour of yours. Imagine another person's reaction to you, and this creates a new version of you, that would have to exist, for that other person to react this way. Read Neville's Power of Awareness for more on this.
The reason why I bought the commercial version of MFL myself, was because the free version tipped me off that the commercial version would have extended visualization of imagining (Neville-style) the reaction of the woman, to my new behavior.. finally.. a product that would guide me through applying the principles in Neville's books that I"ve had on my bookshelf for 6 years. I didn't have enough discipline or trust in myself, to just do it myself, without the help of the CD, but that's ok..,I'm glad someone created a product such as theirs (and I plan on getting LSC's IPM).
Anyway, do the work BOTH, with the club you're involved in, AND on your own in your meditation/visualization sessions in a disciplined and super-regular, committed times.
Do it all.. but allow your subconscious to take these changes on its own time.
Be gentle with yourself.
But I do like your style of putting yourself out there. But take advantage of that experience, and in your meditation time, look back at those real-life rejections (or whatever) and analyze what was running through your mind at those exact times, and examine the outdatedg beliefs that you were holding to cause you to handle yourself in the way you did, etc..
Don't look at my suggestion of 'meditating on beliefs' as some weak esoteric, vague attempt at sounding spiritual in this post, and all.
Mike Pilinski, in his ebook: "Without Embarassment:The Social Coward's Totally Fearless Seduction System." clarifies the importance of daily silence and examining the 'stream of beliefs' that run through your mind regarding women.

[This message has been edited by SteveBCA (edited September 25, 2004).]

No no.. I have really listened to tapes, done visualizations etc.. And nothing has really helped me get over my fear regarding women... Even ebooks like Speed Seductions, Or David D'Angelo.. David D'Angelo is good for getting the right beliefs about to be a perfect dater.. But there is no technique against the fear against woman.. So I don't really feel that is so helpfull at the moment.. About Mike Pillinski.. Have read some of his Ebook, but not all yet.. Maybe there will be some good things in his work too.. But right now at the moment I work in the club, and this has really pulled me forward... Really much.. The group pressure etc. was a perfect help.. Even if it was so hard.. But as I said, it still feels uncomfortable doing it.. But when you do it, it feels great.. Also imagining it on MLF da Babe feels great.. But MLF da Babe has also nothing to work at to be able to go over and talk to woman just like that.. Ok he mention it a few times, that you like going over to talk to a beutifull woman.. But He does not do anything against the first tricker of fear that you get, when see a beautiful woman! When you know you have to go over talking to ther.... How to handle that.. That is difficult. And when you see all the men in a bar.. How many do really dear to approach a beutiful woman.. Most of them just stands still, and hoping that she will go over to him.. Not many men like going over to one.. And that is that fear I have not found any material on that conquers exactly that fear.. Ok, everyone can visualize that they are a perfect seducer, but that has to be stronger than the fear you get when you see a beautiful woman... But still.. Would like to see closer at Mike Pillinski's Ebook..

For dealing with fear I recommend Anxiety Free and the New History Generator Paraliminals.

To overcome fear of talking practice asking help. You break the ice faster by saying something like I really like the music does this band/DJ play here often. Yhis may just get a yes or know response but you could lead it with an open ended question like would you be able to tell me their schelude or where else they play?

The thing is to keep the converstation to something that is happening right now. Like you did with the drinks. Asking where do you live, where are you from, where do you work or what kind of work do you do are all the wrong questions.

Are you from around here, what do you think is the most popular beer sold here, followed by what do you prefer and may I buy you one? These questions are safe topics.

If you turn it around and the girl asked the guy, What kind of car do you drive, where do you work what do you do for a living where do you live... the non conscious mind will send up warning flares as well. you'll think "gold digger where she might just be struggling to start a conversation too.

Use the Anxiety Free Paraliminal, look around your envirionment, notice and make conversation about that. So you'll be saying stuff I like this song, what do you think of it? You have a favourite that they play here?

Alex

I am in the same situation as you but worse. I have very little social experience with men and women. I have nobody to talk with. I have depression, social anxiety, ADD, general anxiety, inadequacy issues, self-image problems, and racial inferiorty issues(real and mental). What other people may not realize, is that after several years of being alone or outside of school, your social skills deteriorate further from lack of experience. People just don’t want to be around you, because you make them feel uncomfortable. I hide it when I am in public though. I project this image of being happy. Tonality and body language are just awful. You don’t have to say anything wrong, it can be as simple as just the way you say it. The majority what you communicate is in the form of body language and how you say it. I have no lair or club to work with. The Houston club was discontinued. I am willing to drive 250 miles to another city, but the Austin club won’t approve me after making a request several weeks ago. I even called the guy on his cell phone and no response and emailed him and 2 others from the club. What am I supposed to do if even the guys in the fastseduction.com lairs, don’t want to hang with me? Which city are you from again? Does anybody in your club know somebody in Houston that can help me? Working on increasing the social circle from just me to 2 people, I finished a 2 month dance class, it was good to acclimate myself to be in the close presence of others. This coming month, I am joining a fitness boot camp, and looking at various charities for volunteer work. The camp should be a fun way to kick my butt, meet some people, and get in better shape.

[This message has been edited by HenryTX2002 (edited September 27, 2004).]

> This coming month, I am joining a fitness
>boot camp, and looking at various charities
>for volunteer work.

Good idea. Something I should do too. Most spiritually-oriented or self-help stuff I've read recommends doing this, including a couple of dating article columns I recall that recommend getting 'out of yourself'

[This message has been edited by SteveBCA (edited September 27, 2004).]