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Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS
#1047 10/09/03 08:17 PM
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For you? As a matter of fact the answer is yes or no.

How should I know? Run an image stream and find out what would work better for you. That isn't my or anyone elses responsability. It's your mind it knows the answer. So run an image stream for all you know you may find a way of pushing up the IQ even faster than that. So ask your image stream and then follow that advice.

Alex






Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS
#1048 10/09/03 08:29 PM
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Cremio Offline OP
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Thank you!

Slowly I begin to believe that you dont bother about IQ or tests. I wonder why.

[This message has been edited by Cremio (edited October 09, 2003).]






Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS
#1049 10/09/03 08:32 PM
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Numbers do not intelligence make. It's how you use the gears between the ears that counts.

Alex






Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS
#1050 10/10/03 05:05 AM
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One thing I have found annoying about speaking out loud during image streaming is that either I have to slow down the images, or that I cannot really describe what I am seeing because by the time I have started describing one thing, it has already turned into something else.

For instance, if I am seeing a triangle or pyramid, the words I used to describe them (aside from the most simple or broad terms) will start to bring in other, more foreign feeling images. That is, what is going on definitely isn't my verbal description of it. I can really see how, as in art classes, the "idea" of something interferes with our perception of the "actual" thing. When drawing a cup you can either draw the cup as it is (essentially a bunch of abstract shapes) or draw your idea of a cup.

Having to verbalize feels like mental constipation. The part that is generating the images is zooming along and doesn't want to slow down for the verbal descriptions.

I have always thought that verbalizing your image stream aloud was supposed to create some link between the visual and linguistic/auditory parts of the brain. If it is just for reinforcement, then I can do that with my desire to see what I am seeing, because it has a very different quality than simply my everyday semi-conscious image stream. It is much more intense ... especially if I use the photosonix (L/S machine).

Any thoughts?







Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS
#1051 10/10/03 06:20 AM
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The reason for image streaming out loud is exactly for the reason you decribe; it brings up more images. Yes it does provide a verbal connection to the visual. Talk faster. Many have the reverse complaint that they have nothing to describe.

As I said before it depends on what you want. And if you don't describe it out loud don't expect to remember it in detail afterwards. We have the same problem with out dreams and they are passing visual imagary for the most part.

Alex






Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS
#1052 10/11/03 11:40 AM
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I'd have to talk really, really fast. We're talking faster than an oily used car salesman, here. Faster than an auctioneer.

Having it more firmly in your memory via verbalizing makes a lot of sense. I did notice that I had more of a tendency to remember that which I verbalized.

I do not doubt the benefits of verbalizing what is going on. It just sucks because it is particularly hard for me. It just doesn't feel right. It feels like I'm gumming up the works, if that makes any sense.

What I might try to do is write instead of speak, I believe I could do that. Afterwards I could make a run through and then verbalize what I saw to the best of my ability.

You know ... it just now occurrs to me, I have had this same problem in writing fiction. There is language and style and the direction it wants to go in (some styles lead directly to certain kinds of images and feelings) and then there are images and feelings and the stories they tell ... or the scenarios they generate. Often they are divergent (for me).

When writing poetry I typically have a feeling and/or images and have to wait for the right words. Sometimes I'll write down a phrase or sentence and go, no ... that's not it. I then have to wait ... eventually the words come. Sometimes it's quick and clear, like a cut diamond ... and other times it's like things growing up from under a swamp ... more organic and meaty than intellectual.

I am beginning to see here that there are variations on this method that might lend themselves better to personal tastes. I don't know if they'll lead to the same results ... but it may be that people in the tradition of poetry have been doing this a lot longer. Hurm. Maybe it isn't so much about technique as it is process.







Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS
#1053 10/11/03 11:47 AM
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You can see it as hard or you can see it as a challenge (I prefer the latter myself )

It has it's rewards.

Alex






Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS
#1054 10/14/03 10:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by babayada:
I'd have to talk really, really fast. We're talking faster than an oily used car salesman, here. Faster than an auctioneer.

Having it more firmly in your memory via verbalizing makes a lot of sense. I did notice that I had more of a tendency to remember that which I verbalized.

I do not doubt the benefits of verbalizing what is going on. It just sucks because it is particularly hard for me. It just doesn't feel right. It feels like I'm gumming up the works, if that makes any sense.



I definitely get your "gumming up the works" comment. For a while, I felt like my descriptions were, in a sense, leading the images. That is, an image would appear, and I would attempt to "identify it". Something blue and shimmering would appear and I would say, "Water". Well, maybe water. Maybe just describe it as "blue and shimmering"; maybe it was turning into something else before I fixated on the (conscious) water idea.

For me, the point of speaking out loud during ISing is to help build or reinforce a bridge between the IS and your conscious mind. I think "bridge" is WW's term for it.

The bridge analogy is limited. Another part of the equation has to do with how much you can cart from the IS to your conscious mind. The bridge analogy doesn't really help here. "Pipe" might be better. I think part of the issue is "how big" is the pipe. ie, how much can you remember? Think of the last time you ISed. Surely, you could remember and reflect on the last two seconds of the IS without speaking anything out loud. What about the last 30 seconds? the last minute? and so on.

It's a matter of practice.

The advantage to not speaking (if you can stay awake) is that you can recall the actual images from the stream, which are likely much richer than the verbal summary.

Just my $.02.

--Brian







Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS
#1055 10/15/03 02:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bolaughlin:

The advantage to not speaking (if you can stay awake) is that you can recall the actual images from the stream, which are likely much richer than the verbal summary.

Just my $.02.

--Brian



That's interesting. I've found that when I record the IS (vs. just speaking aloud), I have a vivid recall of the IS, even a month later. I never listen to the recordings but it seems to offer another dimension. They eventually fade but not nearly as quickly as I would expect.

Unfortunately, the program I used to use was offered by Iomega and does not work with Win2K. Anyone know of a freeware voice recorder that does?






Re: Is asking Q necessary in IS
#1056 10/15/03 06:27 AM
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I find an excellent place to start my search for software is www.moochers.com and www.nonags.com legally free and usually small to focus on doing just the thing that you download it for. I found some really useful software there.

Alex






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