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Joey Offline OP
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It appears to me religion works against everything it proposes to solve. How can one feel worthy, when one is constantly fighting his/her internal drives to be accepted by God, or should I say the religious establishment. Self-esteem is impossible through religion. If God is all loving and all forgiving why does religion try to convince you that if you not follow it you will live a miserable life here on earth and then die all for being different? To me religion seems like the devil. It is anti-life. It is constantly fighting good proclaiming it to be evil. Also I can't see one reaching enlightment meant through traditional religion, but it is so strong. Raised a catholic, and converted to a christian, to now deciding what I choose to believe, I still feel guilty at times for thinking outside the box as if I will be punished or lose something.






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From the perspective of the lower levels in the map of consciousness, this is exactly the view of God - angry and vengeful as represented by certain traditional religious teachings.

Since your initial upbringing is in the Judaeo-Christian religious traditions, start by reading the books "A Course in Miracles" and "Power vs. Force" by David Hawkins.








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Joey

You hit the nail on the head. Religion creates a problem because it mis-directs a human being to look outside of him or herself. eg. external God

Once this has been achived everyone can be manipulated and controlled.

Cheers,







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I'm not a fan of organized religion. I will also say that looking inward has great rewards.

Now that I've stated my core beleifs on this, I'll play the devil's advocate, so to speak.

Religion doesn't make you feel bad. No one and nothing can make you feel bad. You feel bad because you choose too. You may feel the way you do without consciouly selecting your emotions. Merely reacting from a series of experiences which are left you programmed to go from emotion to emotion without the sense of control. However, that is an illusion and you are just choosing not to take control of those feelings. This is the may most people live their lives, only choosing to control the most violent of emotions.

Moving past the theoretical. Religion offers many things that can be very helpful. Catholism offer confession. Wow that is a cool thing. I'm not Catholic, but wow. At anytime you can go and become absolutely acceptable to god just by asking for forgiveness that is powerful and very helpful, if you want it and believe it.

None Catholics, just call it taking god into your life, or accpeting god. Many act like it's something you can only do once. Why? Many say that if you do this you must behave this way and that way. However, many of them differ in what they say.

The religions say there is an all powerful being that is taking care of you. That is cool too.


Okay, most religions say a lot of bad things will happen to you if you don't blah blah blah. Well some of it is true. Religion is a creation of man. For a long time is was probably the only source of education and positive force in civilization. Following a ruler is usually done out of some form of fear. Religion also carries a whole pile of historical and political baggage. Okay, most religions have some fear but they also have a core of positive motivating messages.

You can take the good and leave the bad. You have the power to choose. The people who acquire the image of being the most religious are those that predominantly choose the positive and letting the negative fall to the side. Taking up the mission of accepting the positive and showing it as the true way is and not allowing those who gather the negative to dictate how a religion should be directed is a loudable calling. However, come from a positive elements. Do not use the negative elements in the battle.

The meek will inherit the earth.

I have to close with the statement I started with. I am not a religious person. I don't actively follow any religion. I have a christian background, but less firmly founded in experience than most. Well at least outside of the christian media.

Sending love,
Iam2








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Hi Joey

The beliefs I mention in this post. I have just found to be useful. If you don't find them useful ignore them.

Religion is just made up of signposts. Basic guideposts. The boundaries of religion can become very limiting, they were even for Christ. Christ helped someone on the Sabbath and the religious people of the day freaked out.

Spirituality is internal, religion is external. Religion gives the basics to develop spirit, but it can do no more than that.

I have been brought up a Methodist, right from preschoolers Sunday School to Young Adult Church. When I got into a life-crisis at 17, I got very religious, thinking, somehow I could patch up. But the life-crisis shook my life so much that all the religious scaffolding in my life just fell away, I found that none of it helped me, except maybe for a few basic ideas.

I seeked God, very strongly to help me, and I left the church, because all I got was guilt, fear and remorse from church. When I said to one of the ministers that I did not want to feel guilt, he seemed to look at me as if I should feel guilt.

One of my friends had symptoms of narcolepsy, but some church goers said he was demon-possessed. This wasn't great news for me who was listening on the side, for relief from my anguish.

Guilt and fear aren't useful if they are limiting your life power.

What I would advise you to do, is to leave religion behind, go your own way, seek life, but take God with you. Stop repenting for every little thing, fill yourself with love if you like that idea. Take a few basic ideas that religion has taught you, that's all, and use it in a simple way.

Shake off the scaffolding, release that which is not you. If you're finding you're desperately clinging to the scaffolding, build your inner values, and make sure that they are your inner values. Make the best of you shine. You are the treasure that must be shone, but do it inwardly.

And if that all sounds difficult, one of the most life breathing things you can do, is to do what you want... that's it... do what you like. All or part of you gets squashed by religion, you must let those parts of you that are squashed to grow, to express themselves. Christ hated oppression.

There also may be a huge waiting period to see yourself and your confidence, and self-esteem grow, after the oppression of religion. Do something that breathes life while you wait. Don't read the bible. Attend to your physical health while you wait maybe, but then don't forget to really enjoy a chocolate, or a bit of a spending-spree if you like that idea. Keep your mind open by reading and posting to discussion forums like this one.

Religion smells like stinky socks.
Seek life.

Kind Regards
Grant






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Good Post, Grant






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To put it simply, the issues are:

Locus of Control
"Natural Good" vs. the ethics of the religion
Philosophy of Mind
Cosmogony vs. recent knowledge

Locus of Control means who is responsible for what happens? Let's say that someone decides to give me $100. An internal locus of control, I was given the money because of something I did: I made it happen. An external locus of control: I was given the money because the person wanted to for whatever reason: he made it happen. A divine locus of control: it was God's Will that I have this money: God made it happen. Many people have a problem with the divine locus of control, because some things are obviously not the "Will of God," and if they are, then God appears evil. Example: ebola. If your mother catches ebola, and you say, "It's God's Will that she should suffer a gruesome and horrid death," then God is pretty nasty, isn't He? A less graphic example would be the $100. Sure, if it's American cash, it says that in God we trust, but it's hard to imagine any cases in which God would make such a donation happen.

Morality is a tricky issue. I use three Confucian scholars to illustrate the issue. Menscious believed that everyone was born good, and that evil is an aberation. Xuchi believed that everyone was born evil, and that good must be imposed upon people. Confuscious believed that he followed the Will of Heaven, but said nothing about other people. If your own "moral compass" comes into conflict with the tenets of your religion, then you're not going to feel very good. For example, I hate fish, and I love meat. A vegitarian religion, or even a "no meat on fridays" religion, would be very confusing to me, and I'd probably abandon it if I was raised with such a faith.

"Philosophy of Mind" means, what ARE people? This also touches onto Ethics. In the Christian religion, for example, the offspring of Adam and Eve are evil. They are born with Original Sin, and are morally twisted and depraved beings. I agree, which is why I'm proud not to be a descendant of Adam and Eve. This also touches upon things like what is a soul, why are human beings different than other life forms, etc.

Cosmogony means how the world came into being. Religions often teach things that are in conflict with current knowledge. For example, a world-wide flood, a six-day creation, and a fixed earth with a sun revolving around it. When one's religion teaches things that other people think are stupid, it impacts one's self-image.

That being said, I don't think that religion in general is a problem... only the incompatability of a given religion with an individual person. So, while I cannot claim that there is any perfect religion, I can say that I have discovered the perfect religion for me.

I hope this helps.

[Grrrr. UBB code always messes up my links]!

[This message has been edited by Kaiden (edited October 03, 2003).]






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The reason some people feel bad is that they do bad things and most holy writ puts the spotlight on human depravity and other forms of shortcomings. The purpose of religion is to make people better not just feel better. As long as human ego is on the throne, there is no room for God. The gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing. Those who are on a spiritual quest should ask themselves,"Am I really on the path?" Or am I just wanting some supreme being to bless my own ego-centered agenda? Feeling bad means you may be at the crossroads. Then free will becomes the issue. It wont be easy,but it is possible to make the right choice if you ask.






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Hi Joey,

I don't believe that all religions are designed to make one feel bad. It often depends upon your interpretation. Here's an interesting article that you might find helpful.

Robert
http://www.cgjungpage.org/articles/gsell1.html

Analytical psychology and Buddhism of Nichiren Daishonin
by Erika Gsell


Foreword
This paper should not be considered a scientific work, but simply the
expression of a few ideas, supported by Buddhist and Jungian
bibliography, and a "basis of discussion". Furthermore, as I
unfortunately do not have any books in English, except the three
works mentioned found on Internet - I was almost always unable to
quote directly but had to summarize the main contents of the cited
works. Finally, the language is certainly not at all perfect, however
I hope it is at least understandable.

Introduction
In this brief paper I would like to compare some aspects of Buddhism,
in the theoretical and practical approach of Nichiren Daishonin, with
some aspects of Jungian analytical psychology. Searching on Internet
I discovered that several other authors have already compared
Buddhism with Jungian analytical psychology, thus confirming
my "suspicion" that these two ways of spiritual and psychological
development are somehow not only linked but also very similar in many
aspects.

Eric Pettifor (1) has, for example stressed the parallel between Zen
Buddhism and Analytical Psychology, in the sense that, he
writes, "both paths are transformational. The paradox in each of them
is that the transformation is becoming more oneself, one's true
self".

While Chuan Yuan Shakya (2) considers the possibility of the positive
integration of the two approaches: "Jung's Depth Psychology tells us
why we are the way we are. Zen provides the methodology by which we
can change the way we are. And, in advanced spiritual states, the
generic rationale, the "dramatic plot" of alchemy's androgyny, as
well as the gestation and delivery of the Divine Child, or Lapis, is
supplied by Jung while the methodology, i.e. the various meditation
disciplines ....is supplied by Zen or Taoist techniques". I would
agree with both authors because I find in Buddhism, at least in
Buddhism of Nichiren Daishonin, parallel as well as integrative
aspects to the Analytical Psychology of Carl Gustav Jung.

On the one hand I find similarities between the Buddhist law of cause
and effect and Jung's concept of synchronicity; the Buddhist karma
and the Jungian archetype; the Buddhist ninth level of consciousness
and the Jungian collective unconscious and, finally, between the
Buddhist and Jungian concepts of spirit, matter and time.

On the other hand, I consider that the chanting of the mantra Nam-
myoho-renge-kyo, which is the basic aspect of the theory and practice
of Nishiren Daishonin's teachings of Buddhism, can be of great help
not only to understand but also transform very deep levels of our
psyche. I personally dare hypothesize that the changes which occur
through the chanting of the mantra can be considered a synchronistic
phenomenon.

Main concepts of Nichiren Daishonin Buddhism
Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, the law of cause and effect, and karma
Central to the Buddhist doctrine of Nichiren Daishonin, which was
founded in Japan in 1253, is the daily chanting of the mantra Nam-
myoho-renge-kyo. Myoho-renge-kyo is the title of the Lotus-Sutra and
literally signifies " Mystical law of the Lotus-Sutra (Myoho:
mystical law; renge: lotus; kyo: sutra). The preceding Nam means: to
dedicate one's life. Therefore, "Nam-myoho-renge-kyo" as a whole
means "I dedicate my life to the mystical law of the Lotus-Sutra. I
will shortly try to explain, on the basis of Buddhist literature (3-
9), the meaning of the single components of this mantra, and then
stress the main underlying principles, which I would like to compare
with Jung's analytical psychology.

Myoho means "mystical law," and expresses the connection between life
and its infinite manifestations. It explains the relation and
reciprocal influence between life and all its phenomena. Myoho is the
universal principle, according to which the energy of life has its
effects on a human being. Myoho also refers to the eternal rhythm of
life and death. Renge, which means lotus flower, is the law of the
simultaneousness of cause and effect The lotus flower is considered
the symbol of the simultaneousness of cause and effect, because it
produces seeds and flowers at the same time.

The concept of cause and effect is one of the basic principles of the
teachings of Nichiren Daishonin. According to Buddhism, there is no
effect without cause and each cause must have an effect, independent
of the time it takes for it to appear. However, as Causton states,
the Buddhist notion of causality goes far beyond scientific
observation of the connection between cause and effect. It implies a
deep analysis of the essence of life and takes into account the
possibility of "an intrinsical cause" and a "latent effect"
interacting with the environment. Buddhism thus distinguishes between
two types of causes and effects: on the one hand an "external cause"
and a "manifest effect" and on the other hand an "interior cause" and
a "latent effect".

Buddhism teaches that on a deeper level, cause and effect are
simultaneous, because the present instant is the result of all
causes, which have been defined since the infinite past, and the
beginning of everything which will happen in the future.

Tightly linked with the law of cause and effect is the concept of
karma. "Karma" is a Sanskrit word meaning "action". It indicates that
as a consequence of the law of cause and effect, each action creates
a future action, and this produces an uninterrupted eternal chain. On
the one hand we put our karma into existence through thoughts, words,
and deeds. On the other hand, each thought, each word, and each deed
expresses our karma. Some effects of these causes are latent, they
still have to come to the surface, whereas those which have already
appeared represent our present situation. Karma, therefore, is not a
force which lies outside us, because it is in fact the totality of
causes and effects which we have established in the past and which
have a deep influence on our present actions.

We then come to the last component. Kyo literally means "Sutra," i.e.
the voice or teaching of a Buddha. In a derivated form it signifies
sound, rhythm, vibration and therefore it also means the practice of
chanting. Furthermore, as all phenomena of the Universe are
reciprocally linked through the vibration of the different waves, Kyo
also refers to the vital energy of universal phenomena and means that
everything which exists, has always existed, and will always exist,
is an expression of the mystical law. Kyo refers to the continuity of
past, present and future, and, in reference to the title of the
Lotussutra, it indicates the fact that the ultimate truth of
existence, as described in the Lotussutra, is eternal and immutable.
There is, as Buddhism affirms, no distinction between past, present
and future, as they are created through our consciousness. Buddhism,
through the doctrine of Ichinen Sanzen, also asserts that the whole
Universe is contained in only one instant of life and that each
moment of life shapes the entire Universe.

Nine levels of consciousness
In the human psyche, according to Buddhism, nine levels of
consciousness exist. The first five correspond to the five senses and
are called: eye consciousness, ear consciousness, nose consciousness,
tongue consciousness, body consciousness. The remaining four are
levels of mind consciousness. The sixth level of consciousness
controls the perception of the outer and material world. The seventh
level concerns our inner and spiritual world and guides our capacity
for thought and judgement. The eighth level is the "store" of karma
(alaya). The ninth level of consciousness is the basis of all
spirituality and is called Amala, which means pure and uncontaminated.

According to the principle of the eternity of life, Buddhism declares
that the eighth level of consciousness not only contains the
experiences of this life, but also those which the essence of our
existence has accumulated in the eternal past. When we sleep, states
Causton (5), the first seven levels of consciusness fall asleep with
us, and are replaced by the eighth. We forget the outer world and
lose consciousness of space and time. The more the conscious psyche
relaxes, the more thoughts, words and deeds, stored in the eighth
consciousness, escape from conscious control and constitute the
dream. However, during sleep, a level of unconsciousness seems to
exist, which is even deeper than the one we live in dreams. This
could be, according to Buddhism, the proof of the existence of a
ninth level of consciousness, a state which expresses the essence of
our life, the pure and inexhaustible vital energy of the Universe. In
other words, according to Buddhism, the ninth level of consciousness
represents the source of energy for all our spiritual and pychic
activity and supports us for the eternity. Nichiren Daishonin
identifies the ninth level of consciousness with Nam-myoho-renge-kyo
(5).

Psyche, matter and time
According to Buddhism, there is no division between physical and
psychological aspects of life. The experience of the one influences
the other. The life of each human being is eternal, because it is
part of the Universe, which exists eternally . No human being can
therefore be created or destroyed. The Buddhist concept of eternity
of life is equivalent to the physical law of the conservation of
energy and matter, according to which they are never dispersed, but
are transformed into different forms. Buddhism furthermore affirms
that the Universe has neither been created by an original cause nor
moves towards a goal. Due to the capacity of regeneration, immanent
in life itself, the universe has always existed.

Effects of chanting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo
The chanting of this Mantra slowly awakens the inner illuminated
nature. Nichiren Daishonin sees in Nam-myoho-renge-kyo the key which
opens the door of the infinite potentialities, which lie hidden in
the depth of the Self (5). To speak aloud the seven ideograms of Nam-
myoho-renge-kyo, says Nichiren Daishonin, may appear limited. But as
this Mantra represents the great teaching of all the Buddhas of the
past, present and future and allows all human beings to reach the
Buddha nature, its chanting is unmeasurably deep (5).

The chanting of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo leads to a deep understanding of
the mystical verity. There is no division between the physical and
psychological aspects of our life. The experience of one influences
the other. Through chanting, we can transform ourselves, reinforce
ourselves, and slowly reveal our Buddha nature, thus also changing
the world around us. We can fight until the circumstances reach the
level corresponding to our vital state Through the chanting of Nam-
myoho-renge-kyo we can open our life to the maximum, and develop our
complete potential. We can, every moment of our life, start setting
new causes in order to change the basic tendency of our life (karma)
and achieve future luck based on Buddha nature.

C.G.Jung
In the following pages, I will synthesize, on the basis of Jungian
literature (10-17), those concepts of Jungian analytical psychology
which I would like to compare with the concepts of Nichiren Daishonin
Buddhism discussed above.

Synchronicity and Causality
Jung uses the concept of synchronicity to describe the
simultaneousness between a certain psychic situation and one or more
external events. The two events, which temporally coincide, are
however not causally related, but have the same or a similar sense.
Or, in another Jungian formulation, synchronicity means
simultaneousness of an ordinary situation with another situation or
event which is causally not derivable from the first, and whose
objectivity can be verified only later in time. Marie Louise von
Franz however, on the one hand stresses that simultaneousness, which
characterizes synchronistic experiences, is not absolute but
relative, because the two events often occur at a ( sometimes short)
distance of time. On the other hand, she states that the
synchronistic phenomenon, in which the same sense manifests itself in
the psyche and in the disposition of a simultaneous external event,
shows that there apparently exists an a priori knowledge of something
which cannot be known at a certain moment, which Jung calls "absolute
knowldege". Synchronicity, Jung says, presupposes a sense which in
respect to the human consciousness is a priori, a sense which seems
to be external to the person.

Synchronistic experiences are unique experiences. Even an unique
experience can however, if it is situated in the archetypical
context, provide us with further information. This is exactly what
happens with synchronistic elements even though they do not repeat
themselves and do not allow any experimental reproduction.
Synchronistic phenomena are creative acts. They can therefore not be
foreseen. But, according to Jung, they do however not occur
completely outside any possibility of prediction either, but remain
inside certain fields of probability of acausal coordination. Jung
has hypothesized that synchronistic events are only a particular case
of a general acausal order. The form of this a priori psychic order,
which can be recognized through introspection, is the archetype. The
archetype is not the cause of synchronisctic events, but
synchronicity is only a particular case of the acausal order, which
appears or manifests itself in those phenomena, without provoking
them.

Synchronistic phenonema, which can also be called moments during
which psyche and matter no longer appear as separate realities but
are coordinated in an unique meaningful situation, occur when an
archetype imposes itself. The activation of an archetypal content
takes place when a person is in an excited state, i.e. in a strong
emotional tension. Synchronistic events are therefore dependent on
affect. According to Jung, people's faith in the effectiveness of
prayer is based on the experience of concomitant, synchronistic
events. Von Franz considers magic healings to be synchronistic
phenomena.

Jung excludes the element of causality in synchronistic events
because in archetypal conditions space and time appear reduced to
zero while causality is linked to the existence of space and time and
of moving bodies. Von Franz says that Jung has simply hypothesized,
like all physicists today, that causality implies an interaction
which should be demonstrable in a space-time-continuum. For Jung, all
other expressions mean an extension of the concept of causality which
is a contradictio in adjecto.

Collective unconscious and the archetype
According to Jung, only the superficial layer of our unconcious is
personal. A much deeper layer does however not develop individually;
it is inherited. Jung has called this part of the unconscious, which
does not have an individual but a general nature, which does not
derive from personal experience, but is innate, the collective
unconscious. Jung states that unlike the contents of the personal
unconscious, which initially were conscious and then became
unconscious, because they were forgotten or repressed, the contents
of the collective unconscious were never previously conscious and are
not acquired individually. Jung has called these innate dispositions
or pre-existent forms of our psyche archetypes. The real essence of
the archetype, states Jung, cannot be perceived consciously, it is
transcendent. He therefore called it psychoid. As psychoid,
unrepresentable data, archetypes are unclear and can only
approximatively be recognized and determined. Archetypes per se are
absolutely unobservable structures. Only when they are stimulated
through internal and external necessities, do they produce, in
crucial moments, archetypal images, archetypal phantasies, thoughts,
intuitions, etc. The archetypal images, which our unconscious
transmits to us, should therefore not be confused with the archetypes
per se. What we inherit are not the archetypal images, but the
archetypal structure and disposition (also comparable with a pattern
of behaviour) which then produce images which are almost the same
everywhere and in all individuals.

Psyche and matter
(Based on two books by Marie-Louise von Franz (15,17), where the
author has synthesized, interpreted and commented Jung's conception
of psyche, matter, and time)

According to Marie Louise von Franz, Jung, with the introduction of
the principle of synchronicity, made it possible to consider the
fields of psyche and matter, which had hitherto been considered
complementary, on an unitary basis. He confirmed the hypothesis that
the reality which we introspectively try to describe as collective
unconscious could be the same unknown and unknowable reality which
atomic physicists trie to describe from outside, as a material
reality. Synchronistic phenomena, she says, contradict our
constituted opinion according to which the subjective psyche is
something different from objective matter. The deepest layer of our
psyche is, as Jung states, pure nature. It is nature which contains
everything, matter included.

Psyche and matter can be considered different forms of an identical
manifestation of energy, the one of low frequency, extended in time
and space, the other of pure intensity. According to Jung, psyche and
matter probably are but two aspects of the same secret of life ,
which he calls unus mundus, one world. Jung has defined the psyche
(=collective unconscious) as a sphere of reality which is situated,
as a spectrum, between the infrared pole of material and bodily
reactions, and the ultraviolet pole of the formal ordering
structures: the archetypes. The two poles, Jung hypothesized, are one
and the same unknown living essence, which is only perceived as
different by our conscious psyche. When we are touched by external
material or corporal stimuli, we call it matter, when we are touched
from the inside, by phantasies, ideas, feelings, we call it objective
psychic or unconscious. The collective unconscious is not only a
structural and innate psychic identity of all human beings but also
an omnipresent continuum, a present without extension. Therefore, if
something, which touches the unconscious and moves to compassion,
happens in a certain place, it happens simultaneously everywhere.

Time
When we enter in contatct with the archetypal idea of the psyche,
Jung writes, we feel as if we were in contact with the infinite. The
archetypical world, he says, is situated outside of time, and is
therefore eternal. Von Franz points out that Jung discovered that
time becomes ever more relative the deeper we enter into the
unconscious and that in certain spheres of the unconscious time seems
to no longer exist. Whereas the Ego is situated completely inside of
time, in a flowing of external and internal events, the personal
unconscious is already only relatively connected with time. Whe we
enter into the sphere of archetypal images, we find the much more
extended time-dimension of millenarian aeons. On a even deeper level
we find the aeons of the auto-renewal of the Self; the eternal
archetypes, their unity-plurality and the Self; and finally the area
of pure non-time.

Conclusion
1) Synchronicity and the law of cause and effect
As I mentioned in the introduction, I find that there are great
similarities between the Buddhist law of cause and effect and Jung's
concept of synchronicity, and I hypothesize that the changes which
occur through the chanting of the mantra Nam-myoho-renge-kyo can be
considered a synchronistic phenomenon. My assertion may appear
paradoxal, because, as we saw in the preceding pages, on the one hand
we have to consider as synchronistic all those events in which a
psychic situation and an external event, connected through sense
(meaning) and not through causality, occur with relative
simultaneousness; whereas on the other hand, according to the law of
cause of effect there is no effect without cause and each cause must
have an effect.

However, as Causton points out, we have to consider the Buddhist law
of cause and effect not from the scientific point of view but from a
a transcendent one; and it is from this perspective that Buddhism can
declare that cause and effect are simultaneous. This is, according to
my opinion, extremely near to what Jung means, when he says that the
element of causality in synchronistic events has to be excluded,
because causality presupposes a space-time continuum, whereas in
archetypal (psychic) conditions space and time appear reduced to
zero. Therefore an application of causality to that kind of event
would represent a contradictio in adjecto.

Through the chanting of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo we can, according to
Buddhism, deeply understand the mystical verity, develop the
potentialities of the Self, but also change the circumstances in the
outer world, because the psychological and physical aspects of our
life are not separated but influenced by each other.

We have previously seen that synchronistic phenomena can be
considered situations in which psyche and matter no longer appear as
separate realities, but are coordinated in an unique meaningful
situation; and that these circumstances occur when an archetypical
content is activated in a state of intense affect. The chanting of
Nam-myoho-renge-can, in my opinion, strongly contributes to the
induction of those states of intense affect in which an archetypical
content is activated. And, as the archetype is considered the form of
a general, acausal, a priori psychic order, of which synchronistic
events represent a particular case, I dare hypothesize that the
Jungian concept of archetype and the Buddhist concept of mystical law
can be considered the expression of the same secret essence of life.

2) Karma and the archetype
As we have seen, there seem to be some analogies between the concepts
of karma and archetype. On the one hand, karma has been defined as
the totality of causes and effects which we put into existence in the
past and which have a deep influence on our present actions; on the
other hand, according to Jung, the collective unconscious, formed by
the archetypes, is innate and inherited. The parallel emerges even
more clearly from the following two quotations made by Mark Greene
(18):

"In later editions of On the Psychology of the Unconscious", Green
writes, "he (Jung) placed a footnote at the end of a description of
the collective unconscious where he describes it as containing
the '...legacy of ancestral life, the mythological images: these are
the archetypes...' and calls it 'a deliberate extension of the
archetype by means of the karmic factor...(which is) essential to
deeper understanding of the nature of an archetype' (CW, Vol. 7, p.
118n)." (18)
"Elsewhere Jung states that 'we may cautiously accept the idea of
karma only if we understand it a psychic heredity in the very widest
sense of the word. Psychic heredity does exist—that is to say,
there
is inheritance of psychic characteristics such as predisposition to
disease, traits of character, special gifts, and so forth' (CW Vol.
11, p. 845)." (18)
However later in his paper Green states: "Jung continued to refute
the notion of a personal karma since 'the main bulk of life is
brought into existence out of sources that are hidden to us. Even
complexes can start a century or more before a man is born. There is
something like karma' (Letters, p. 436)." (18) Green further precises:

"Only later in his life did he begin to accept the possibility of a
personal karma, more specific in its implications to a person's
destiny than the collective attributes he had always assigned to it
in helping him see corroboration of his theory of the collective
unconscious in other religions. Jung connects the collective
unconscious, ancestral memories and as yet unfilled out archetypal
images with a sort of collective karma." (18)
At present, I have nothing to add to what Green stated in his work,
in which he has accurately examined, and exhaustively written on, the
subject.

3) Ninth level of consciousness and collective unconscious
According to Richard Causton (5) and Riccardo Venturini (9) the
collective unconscious can be compared with the eighth level of
consciousness, which contains the experiences of the past and is
considered the "store of karma". Ikeda however [at least in (3)] does
not, when he mentions Jung on the same subject, draw the same
parallel. I therefore wonder if it might not also be possible to
compare the collective unconscious with the ninth level of
consciousness. I think that the parallel emerges from itself when we
simply compare the description of the two concepts. On the one hand,
the ninth level of consciousness can be considered the deepest level
of unconsciousness, the expression of the the vital force of the
Universe and is identified with Nam-myoho-renge-kyo. On the other
hand, the collective unconscious can be considered:

at its ultraviolet pole, i.e. at its deepest, archetypical level, a
formal ordering structure situated outside of time and
in its whole extension, the expression of the unus mundus, the
mysterious unity of spirit and matter, the secret essence of life.
4) Psyche, matter and time
The similarities between Buddhist and Jungian concepts of spirit,
matter and time have already emerged from the comparisons made in the
three previous paragraphs. Let me therefore here simply conclusively
stress again that, in my opinion, the Buddhist statement of the unity
and reciprocal influence of physical and psychological aspects of
life perfectly mirrors the Jungian principle of synchronicity (or
vice versa). Both are in fact based on the conviction that psyche and
matter have to be considered nothing more than different
manifestations of an identical and eternal energy.

Bibliography
1) Eric Pettifor: "Becoming Whole:Applied Psychosis", Analytical
Psychology and Zen Buddhismus, published on Internet

2) Chuan Yuan Shakya "Seventh World of Buddhism", capitolo 7 "A
working Model of the Psyche": Zen's Practical Approach to the
Psychology of C.G.Jung, published on Internet

3) Daisaku Ikeda "La vita, mistero prezioso", Sonzogno Tascabili 1982
(Italian translation of: "Life: An Enigma, a Precious Jewel" )

4) Daisaku Ikeda "La vera entità della vita", Esperia Edizioni
1996
(Italian translation of "Selected Lectures on the Gosho" Vol. 1,
Nishiren Shoshu International Center Tokyo, 1979)

5) Richard Causton, "La legge dell'universo", 2001 Nr. 36,
gennaio/febbraio 1993

6) "La saggezza del Sutra del Loto, 1.parte", 2001 Nr. 54,
gennaio/febbraio 1996

7) "La saggezza del Sutra del Loto, 2. parte", 2001 Nr. 55,
marzo/aprile 1996

8) "L'Illuminazione", 2001 Nr. 59, novembre/dicembre 1996

9) "Le nove coscienze", 2001 Nr. 48, gennaio/febbraio 1995

10) Marie Louise von Franz, "Le tracce del futuro", Teadue 1996
(Italian translation of "On Divination and Synchronicity", Inner City
Books,Toronto)

11) C.G.Jung, " Synchronizitaet als ein Prinzip akausaler
Zusammenhaenge" in "Die Dynamik des Unbewussten", CW 8, Walter Verlag
1982.

12) "Theoretische Ueberlegungen zum Wesen des Psychischen" in "Die
Dynamik des Unbewussten", GW 8, Walter Verlag 1982.

13) C.G.Jung, "Der Begriff des kollektiven Unbewussten" in "Die
Archetypen und das kollektive Unbewusste", GW9/I, Walter Verlag 1989

14) C.G.Jung, "Ueber die Archetypen des kollektiven Unbewussten"
in "Die Archetypen und das kollektive Unbewusste", GW9/I, Walter
Verlag 1989

15) Marie-Louise von Franz, "Psyche und Materie", Daimon Verlag 1988

16) C.G.Jung, "Ueber das Phaenomen des Geistes in Kunst und
Wissenschaft", GW 15, Walter Verlag 1990, "Zum Gedaechtnis Richard
Wilhelms (1930)"

17) Marie Louise von Franz, "Zahl undZeit", Klett-Cotta, Stuttgart
1990

18) Mark Greene "Jungian Studies, Karma and Archetype: A Teleological
Unfolding of Self" (Internet Website: C. G. Jung, Analytical
Psychology, and Culture, 1995- Editors: Donald Williams & David
Sedgwick).

Send e-mail to Erika Gsell at GSELL@n...








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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 445
Thipdar,

The Bible itself says satan is the accusor, and not God. I'm not calling the Bible - satan either. What I'm saying is that guilt can be dysfunctional guilt, fear can be dysfunctional fear, and remorse can be dysfunctional remorse.

What I'm trying to offer to people is a way out of the trap. The basic ideas of the christian religion are salvation and not condemnation, freedom and not legalistic law keeping. We are supposed to make the religion attractive not repellant. I fully believe that the Christian religion is more there for healing and support than it is for "righteousness". Christ healed in His missions. He offered hope. He did not go around making people feel bad. When the people of the day were disillusioned with religious practices of the day, he gave them a way out, he gave them grace. The Gospel is not a Gospel of guilt and bad feeling.

Religion can become dysfunctional if it is causing death instead of life, condemning instead of saving, limiting instead of freeing.

The idea, of God sitting on your throne, I've heard before often. But I'm afraid it is not a very psychologically healthy idea. For instance, you get the picture: A person who always asks God for guidance instead of doing what there own common sense tells them to do. That is totally dysfunctional!!! What next God? What do I do next? Use your mind.

The fact is the self is always incharge, and God cannot psychologically sit on your throne. If we are to be free, we are to be in charge of our lives, doing what we choose. Otherwise we have no choice. We cannot be what God makes us either!! We make ourselves into a unique person, otherwise we all become a rehashed version of a religion. That is not life-giving. That smells of death.

Too many christians now days are relying on books to give them wisdom. Use your experience it's the richest source of wisdom in your life. It is unique. It is important. How many books have you read that rehash the same stuff over and over again. It's because people aren't learning from their experiences, we are all dragging mankind's history with us, and we are not getting fresh points of view.

A fresh point of view is what is needed.

Kind Regards
Grant






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