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#14698 03/30/04 08:33 AM
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I have been reading the Personal Power book some, and during my reading I have been giving thought to the notion of hypnotic control by others.

I think that when a person is given a suggestion it is not as if someone is being controlled by someone else. Rather, a person is going into a state in which mental images and thoughts have a great impact. Because a person is not used to being in this state and directing one's awareness or thinking on this level, one may allow oneself to be "controlled." That is, directed by another, having certain thoughts and ideas stimulated while in a state where bodily experiential response is activated and heightened. Does that make any sense?

I believe that, perhaps, the more time one spends in hypnosis, if one spends his or her time properly, the more self-control one obtains and the deeper and more penetrating and more effective one's thinking becomes.

Just a thought.

It could be that people are turned into mindless zombies while somnambulistic, but I don't that that is the fact of the matter.

Any have any opinions about this or experiences relating to it they'd like to share?








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When you think about it, even saying HELLO
to a person has an effect. Your communiction enters his spiritual universe, and in the time of a nanosecond the person will compute your message. That instantaneous computation will either result in his response, or no response, but nonetheless you have transmitted a tiny droplet of your life to him.

ERGO, it is important that our communications to other beings are
positive,helpful messages,and not
destructive, because some people are weak, susceptible, and easily influenced.
We bear a responsibility to humanity
for what we communicate.






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I've done a little reading about hypnosis. In particular self-hypnosis. I think you've got some of it correct.

Here is some of the information I've gleened, interpreted and inferred.

Yes, you do go into a more receptive state. It may be because you are in a state where you more strongly and fully experience mentally setup experiences. It may be because you've quieted the conscious filter. This may be one and the same.

You are never hypnosised or control. It is always something you choose to do. You are doing it all. I'm not sure why you would choose to act like a chicken though.

I think of hypnosis on the same par a meditation. However, once you get into state you (or someone else) directs your experience with a purpose.

Some of what I've read is about using self-hypnosis for personal health. Sort of like the "me" side of Qigong. I've seen almost all of the same personal benefits being espoused by some hypnosis as Qigong. So maybe you hypnosis accesses the Qi when you are in the right state. I've not seen anything about hypnosis enabling you to help others..... unless following the teaching of another is a form of hypnosis. Maybe hypnosis is a scary word for rapid learning. Leaves one wondering about the accelerated learning state.

I'd be very curious to hear Paul's thoughts on this question. Of course that might be another course.


You are perfection.
Iam2






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You cannot be hypnotized to do anything against your will. If you are hypnotized to do something which violates your deeply held values you will not do it.

However, there are "exceptions." Not really true exceptions to the rule, but just ways "around" it. It is true that someone cannot be hypnotized to do something against his will, but most people don't have a specific will or intent or even strong towards or away from values for most contexts. If you are selling something, as long as it is something reasonable, most people will not have a specific intent not to buy. Using your skills to get someone to commit a crime will probably not work on a normal person but a criminal would only object if he thinks he will get caught.

Values can also be changed using NLP, just as they can be changed naturally but only quicker. How many people know kids who were well-behaved before they started hanging out with kids with very different value systems or people who changed their behavior due to a religious conversion?

Hypnosis is nothing like how urban legends portray it, but it is also true that certain "rules" can be "bent."






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I do not think that the notion that everything we do is a choice on some level is an accurate one. Our actions and reactions can be, possibly, but are not so by necessity.

Many things we have learned and been conditioned to have not been our choices to do so. For instance, there are certain behaviors to which we are predisposed. Learning a language is one. Walking is another. A lot of how we behave is a result of learnings that were not necessarily choices on a conscious or unconscious level, but we results of how we simply reacted to the reoccurring or particularly powerful stimuli around us.

Also, I do not know how true the belief about not doing anything you wouldn't normally do or have in your values is. A point brought up by the author of "Secret, Don't Tell" is that many experiments "proving" that hypnosis cannot be used to influence people against their will or values was executed by people for whom it was in their best interest to come to the aforementioned conclusion.

As for having responsibility for our communication being "positive," well, how can we know what is positive for someone else, really? How often have our well intentioned communications resulted in something like disaster?

Of particular interest to me lately have been ideomotor response to suggestion. I think that the simple arm levitation exercise provides a lot of information about and insight into what goes on in hypnosis in general. Ideas get communicated in an experiential, rather than cognitive level. I think in so far as we are able to process this experiential information on a more and more sophisticated basis, the more "self control" and conguency we will have.

It makes sense that hypnosis could affect Qi. If indeed Qi exists, if ideomotor responses can be generated via hypnosis and other changes, then why not changes in Qi? In fact, if Qi is integral to the body, then by necessity every hypnotic idea, by being numinous (that is, alive and actively expressed within the experiential self or mind), affects Qi.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited March 31, 2004).]






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Hello

"A man walks into a Bar"

What does that statment bring to mind?

[This message has been edited by Matrixman (edited March 31, 2004).]






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The social gathering spot involving alcohol.

You question about the statement brings up the image of man sitting on the ground with a bump on his forehead.

You are perfection.
Iam2






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quote:
Originally posted by babayada:
Also, I do not know how true the belief about not doing anything you wouldn't normally do or have in your values is. A point brought up by the author of "Secret, Don't Tell" is that many experiments "proving" that hypnosis cannot be used to influence people against their will or values was executed by people for whom it was in their best interest to come to the aforementioned conclusion.

IMO many people teaching hypnotic skills for persuasion would LOVE it if this was true. They could advertize that their students can totally dominate anyone they wished to.

As I already said, there are things that can and cannot be done with hypnosis. There are also ways to seemingly get around those rules. Supposing you have the skill to "program" someone to do what you want them to do, if you do this the subject will not be a "zombie" like on movies. What you'd be doing is talking them into changing their frames, values, and beliefs so that it seems natural to do what you want. Using typical skills, however, like establishing rapport to build trust, eliciting and enhancing positive states, and using language patters to persuade them is a far cry from creating a "zombie."

For those that want to create "zombies" it is best to do so in a total control environment like a cult or prison camp. Hypnosis can help in this, but most the changes are related to environmental control and behavior. You separate a person from everyone they know, take away their sense of identity, make them dependent on you for basic needs, punish disobedience, change their diet radically to change their body chemistry, maybe involve drugs, associate pain (probably through torture) to things they valued in their normal life, and probably a host of other techniques. They may or may not use hypnosis when brainwashing the victim, but things like these are far more useful. No, I'm not suggesting that anyone should go out and do any of this, I'm just pointing out the reality of brainwashing vs. the fantasy that a hypnotist can walk up to someone and hypnotize them to rob a bank or kill someone.

It is possible to use hypnosis to mess someone up, but not in the way they show on movies. I've heard from credible sources of a few hypnotists doing things like installing depression, impotence, phobias, incompetence, etc. in people. Again, I don't advocate this I'm only using it as an example of what is possible in the real world rather than what is taught in fiction.

I've listened to Emery on the Art Bell show and it sounded like she was very paranoid and did not know much about hypnosis in the real world.








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A Rabbi, a Catholic priest, and a Polish man walk into a bar.

The bartender looks at them and says, "Not you guys again...."







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Hello babayada

"A Rabbi, a Catholic priest, and a Polish man walk into a bar.
The bartender looks at them and says, "Not you guys again...."

When you gave this responce, How did you come to the conclusion, that, that was the responce, to give, unlike, our friend.

"Iam2" who gave an more delightful responce.

The social gathering spot involving alcohol.
You question about the statement brings up the image of man sitting on the ground with a bump on his forehead.

"You see, the thing with lAnguage, is it caN be used in very felixible ways, anD if you PAY attention, in just the "right" ways, No body "Noes" just how much of the surfase you CAN scratch, if you, noses what I mean, now you might think that I might be "rubbing" your nose init, yet If you just think what you want to, do with language, then, there, is ways and means, to create, all kinds of good learning."

Now you might have got an hurg to scratch, or rubb your nose, if you did then you have just been hypnotised, and if you did't, then you made the right choice for you.

All language is hypnosis, and all hypnosis is self-hypnosis.

Your already a genius.









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