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I agree with everyone here - Holosync is a great and wonderful program!

[This message has been edited by shr33m (edited May 06, 2005).]

Shr33m,

I could not say it any better than what you have just said, English is my second language.

I saw so many regular contributors here are advocating Holosync, but none can prove that what they are advocating are not placeble effects, in fact there simply is no sufficient data anywhere to suggest brainwave entrainment has any positive health or spiritual benifit, so I was just trying to make people aware that this might be something that works for some people, but unless they know what they want out of it and believe that they can actually attain them by investing their money, time and energy. I am very troubled by people claiming the benifits of Holosync but were unable to ojectively quantify and prove what they are claiming, many of them also do meditations, have positive personal develpment experience, studied NLP and other self-help programs, or have spiritual awareness, but to disregard or under-play these other positive developments, and praise Holosync as if it really has anything to do the personal development benifits they have accumulated over the years that are the collective result from many products and their positive intentions, their investment in time, money and energies in the development proccess, in my opinion, is really irresponsible.

So please read shr33m's psot carefully, ask yourself what are your objectives in investing such a big sum of money, and time and energy in Holosync? knowing the claimed positive benifits are unproven and unsustanciateble, knowing no one who have actually completed all levels of Holosync listening is willing to come out to share their "positive" experience in the entire Internet communities, knowing that the only known person who completeted all levels of Holosync is not positive about her Holosync experience, knowing that there are more cost effective brainwave entrainment products, knowning that there are other personal and spiritual development paths availeble that more people have walked and more such experience are being shared in the online communities, one really should think more than twice before making his or her own informed decision as whether or not Holysync might be right for them. For those hardcore Holosync supporters, don't accuse me of avocating against Holosync, I am not, I only point out that there are options, and there are questions about the claims from Holosync, and that one shall make use of available informations in making his or her own informed, intelligent decision regarding Holosync.

peace and love to all.

[This message has been edited by Fear Not! (edited February 03, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by Fear Not! (edited February 03, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by Fear Not! (edited February 03, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by Fear Not! (edited February 03, 2005).]

I think that that some people are comfortable with their decision with holosync. Others do not like the price or the advertising and are currently looking for other means.

Your approach, Shr33m, is extremely reasonable but I doubt most people will put such systematic and thorough thought and planning into their decisions.

For my part, I purchased the Awakening Prologue a long time ago, and I currently enjoy the effects it's having on me. Perhaps that will change? Perhaps it won't?

I am not so much interested in spiritual progress through this process, and I am not basing my expectations upon the claims made by the marketing. What I perceive now is that it is helping me reach a more serene state, and I am very curious as to whether or not continued use will bring about a greater sense of calm and balance in my life.

The jury is not out on that as far as I am concerned, so I am very curious as to what is going to happen.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited February 04, 2005).]

Hi Babayada,

I'm very pleasantly surprised to see your reversal of point of view. As you have stated yourself, many posters who are against Holosync have a very harsh and angry attitude, while the long-temr users of Holosync are generally more balanced in their expression, tone, and reasonning. Now I see that in your posts as well, and I am very happy to have been a small part in this positive change. Thanks for having let me help you ever so little !

Even if you ultimately decide against Holosync, your final decision will be a balanced, honest and reasonned one. This is great change. Congratulations !

Big cheers !

Erwan

Hi Shr33m and Fear Not !

I am re-posting the following from the "WHat happens after Holosync" thread.

It's about measurable effects of Brainwave entrainment. And it's not about EEGs, we've all read that kind of stuff dozens of time.

Here it goes :
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I got tested several times on a device that made measurements of the body's energy field (some call it the "Aura") on the fingertips of the hands and feet. It's similar to, but slightly more elaborate and precise than, Kirlian photography. It was used by my chiropractor/accupuncturist. He used it to determine what energy imbalances there were in my body (and it was pretty accurate, too !). In making the measurement, he had to turn a knob that adjusted for the vibration frequency of the body's energy field. It was like focusing a lens : when the frequency was off my body's frequency, the image of the Aura would be blurry, but with the correct adjustment, the image turned very sharp. I was surprised that there wasn't any preset frequency, but my chiropractor explained to me that A HUMAN BEING'S BASE FREQUENCY IS AN INDIVIDUAL CHARACTERISTIC, just like your size or weight, so there's no one setting that could be good for everyone.
This intrigued me, and since I was experimenting a lot with brainwave entrainment (I hadn't bought Holosync yet at that time) I aksed him if we could try a few things. Since we were quite close, and the idea intrigued him as well, he accepted to do several mesurments before and after using Brainwave entrainment CDs.

There were two results :

1) After listening to half an hour of Theta waves (7,5 Hz), my "Aura", which was, like any normal person's, full of spikes and dents before the listening session, had become all smooth and regular, leaving only some deeper dents (corresponding to my long-temr health issues) which were also smoothed out. The effect was the same as that of doing 1 hour of CHi Gung, or a full session of energy re-balancing by accupuncture (something he charges 75Euro for).
So conclusion 1 :
Theta Brainwave entrainment has measureable positive effects on the body's energy field, which is itself a good measure of one's overall health and well-being.

Result 2 was more surprising...

2) Before and after listening to the Brainwave entrainment CD, my Body's base energy vibration frequency had completely changes.
Before, it was something around 340 Hz, and after, it was 185 Hz. This was almost exactly the carrier frequency I had used for my Brainwave entrainment CD...
This was quite a surprise : sound listened to in earphones had had a direct influence on my whole body’s energy field (not only the ears or the brain).
Conclusion 2 is : there is a clear interaction between the carrier frequency we listen to, and the body’s energy filed.

Holosync states clearly that the lower the carrier frequency, the more powerful the effect on the system (that’s why they want to make it gradual, level by level : so as not to « blast people out of their shoes » with lower carrier frequencies right from the start)

I’ve read for example in science reviews, that Chi Gung grandmasters, when they « projected chi energy through their hands », were actually producing inaudible vibrations at 70Hz. (These vibrations were inaudible, although they were measured through a microphone. This seems contradictory at first, since 70 Hz is a perfectly audible frequency, it’s in the lower end of the male human voice. Since a microphone is basically made up of a magnet attached to a spring on one side and a membrane on the other side, it is not only capable of measuring air vibration through the membrane, but also variations in the ambiant electric or magnetic field, by direct effect on the magnet.)

The conclusion is that these Chi-Gung grandmasters were channeling 70 Hz electric or magnetic waves through their bodies. This is not only much lower than the average 200-400 Hz frequency for the body’s energy vibration frequency usually measured in most people (according to my chiropractor’s experience on his « aura » machine), but it’s also much lower than Holosync’s Awakening Prologue Frequency (140 Hz). Such a chi-gung grandmqster would probably benefit from using Brainwave entrainment CDs ONLY if the CD’s carrier frequency was lower than 70 Hz. I am currently using Awakening Level 2, whose carrier frequency is 100 Hz. I suppose that to get below 70 Hz one wouldhave to use Purification level 1 or 2…
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I hope this helps in the global debate about Brainwave technologies and Holosync...

Cheers,

Erwan

PS : Oh, Yes. Since I did those tests, I moved to a new country, and haven't been able to re-do these experiments with the actual Holosync CDs (instead of my awkward homebrew CDs). But I do think that the above observations would still apply to Holosync.

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Originally posted by shr33m:

comparing the [b]efficiencies of other alternatives?

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shr33m:
How can one conduct a cost/benefit analysis when to do so would require sampling every alternative in its entirety, at the outset of the process?

You should know that the kind of predictive power you are suggesting, can only be rendered on inert matter, flying rocks, and only the most mundane statistical abstractions from living systems.

No science can exercise this level of general predictive power on living mental/ biological systems, certainly not on the personal evolutionary process in a human being. If you are able to do this then why did you try holosync to begin with and go down so many blind alleys?

The personal developmental process is largely an intuitive process that can be aided and informed by, but never reduced to, the kind of left-brained objective analysis you are describing.

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Unless you can actually see energy, use techniques from applied or behavioral kinesiology to gauge the effect of the product on your energy field. Does it reverse your polarity, cause psychological reversal, create blockages, or set you back in further?

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You are saying that unless you can find a correlate of the benefits on some objective measurement device, that you would not validate or continue with a given approach. Even if you were angry with people all your life, and suddenly with a given method you become happy and positive, you would not trust this as being "true" or "valid" for yourself unless it showed an objective correlate on some kind of measurement device, or according to some energy system. (The "meaning" of these observable changes is, remember, rendered by us, in our subjectivity.)

The objective measurable changes can inform and possibly refine our internal perception of and sensitivity to the changes afforded by a given approach, but to recommend that they completely negate/replace them is a rather dangerous form of reductionism. Surely by now you trust your internal perceptions more than that?

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If you do decide to go with the program, then for the money you shell out, you should be willing to spend the extra time to draw up a project management plan complete with timelines and continuously check if you are getting the desired expected results at every stage of the process. If the marginal effectiveness is lower than expected, then maybe it's time to see if your time would be better spent doing something else with a greater return on your investment.

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And while I'm drawing up a project management plan, to mathematically label and calculate my "developmental future" (given all the alternatives), maybe you can brush up on your philosophy of science, so you'll realize the kind of errors you made with this argument.

[This message has been edited by garics (edited March 26, 2005).]

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For the record I am not a Holosync customer. I made my personal decision about the product some time ago.

Alex [/B]

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Hey Alex,

I am new to this forum. I'm interested to know why you've decided to not use holosync anymore? I don't know other products or technologies and maybe other things will work smoother for me. Holosync is powerful but also hard.
I read something about yin an yang on an other forum of awakenedminds (focus and insight cd) Someone said that insight (one cd, no different levels/frequencies) would be more yin and holosync more yang (harder, more pushing the brain).
i also wondered if paraliminals are a kind of hypnosis combined with holosync? and of what level is holosync (APrologue?)

Thank you.

Well just to jump in here and get my feet wet again.

Holosync is a long term committment to see it through. Like anything worthwhile. Paying a mortgage on a house is a long term committment that you only see a "paid" slip of paper at the end of thirty years of living in the house. Did you see any big changes in the house in thirty years? No, but you had a home to call your own.

To say there are many options out there is true but to dig in a do the real work of self developement is pretty much a one path road to get it done.

I dabbled around for many years looking for what worked, each time things got a little better until I finally met that teacher I had been looking for all my life and it changed everything for me. If I had gone off looking at more and better options then I would have lost that time and never accomplished near as much. The old saying "Stick and stay, make it pay" is a good rule when you find something that will give you what you are looking for.

From my own experience, when someone tells you there are better options out there that work faster... Well let me know how that works out for you. I'm sticking to this path until it runs out. It doesn't mean I'm closed to other things but they will have to wait their turn.

You don't graduate from class by looking for faster ways to do it, you still have to do the work. Some people like deadlines or time measured production qoutas. I never have enjoyed that way of thinking so don't do it myself.

Holosync and the price of things: Have you ever just given money away? Have you ever paid your creditors and said "Thank You" or do you put out your money grudgingly?

If you were ever at Sea on a Ship and had a pipe fitting burst that cost 59 cents back at Marine Hardware but in the middle of the ocean what would you pay to save your ship? And how would you feel about having to pay $50,000 to have it delivered to you? If your ship was saved you'd grumble but you'd pay and maybe plan a little better next time. You'd grumble about having to spend $1.18 to buy a couple spares, but you'd be $100,000 ahead.

My personal opinion on why most advanced Holosyncers don't respond is they don't really give a hoot, have better things to do. It's kind of hard to explain what they experience to someone who hasn't done it themselfs.

My Aikido Sensei never told me much until he knew I was ready for it. That took a few years to get use to it, but later I really understood why.

Aloha

Jeff

Like I said I made my "personal" decision some time ago.

Alex

I just found this forum after searching for Holosync on Google. It's late so I won't write too much tonight.

Just let me say that I think Holosync is a good product. As others have said, you can find other similar products for less money. I personally learned about Holosync along with lots of other meditations from a friend who had gotten them from Napster. Tried Hemisync, Dane Spotts (or something like that), BWGen, and a few light sound machines. I ended up buying the AP and level 1 and have been using it for three years. I always pay for what I use and I already knew AP worked well from the MP3's from my friend.

But the most important thing I would like to stress is not just that Holosync works but that binaural beats work. If you don't want to pay for overpriced Holosync, then a less expensive product is better than nothing all.

Yes, I said it. Holosync costs too much for being just binaural beats. But after trying many out there I do honestly think it is the best overall. I think Holsync is the best because the starting frequencies in AP and level 1 have clearly been selected with care. Any higher and it wouldn't be as powerful. Any lower and it would overwelm people that are new to binaural beats.

Another thing that really has made a difference in effectiveness of binaural beats for me is neuro suppliments. If you can afford Brainlighting it is the cadallac of neurosuppliments IMO. If not, then Ginkgo Biloba is much better than nothing. Adding Huperzine A or DMAE to the mix is even better.

Perhaps Bill does charge so much for Holosync just to make money. I thought that several years ago when I bought AP.

Another possibility is that Bill may charge what he does for HS because that way people will really put it in each day and make a real effort to stick with it if they have real money on the line. Considering it takes about 2 weeks to a month of everyday use for your brain to start really accepting HS's binaural beats, having that financial commitment to the product may really make a difference for some people.

Words can not describe the pleasure I have gotten from lower frequncy binaural beats. From a physical response alone the endorphins I get now are incredible. But it took probably 6 months and a few months of neuro suppliments before I started to have real serious flow of endorphins. Now I can just close my eyes and in a few minutes I'm there.

Good luck to all... I'll try and check back tomorrow.