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#34104 01/22/03 11:15 PM
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It's time to talk about bootlegged copies of
our programs as well as unathorized MP3 files.

I listened to a public radio program yesterday
on digital piracy and heard several callers
"flip up their eye patch" and proclaim to be
pirates. I read some of your posts with
dismay. I can't believe that people are proud
to declare themselves thieves. What's this
world coming to?

I believe digital piracy is unfair, unethical,
and certainly illegal.

* Our society is based on fair exchanges. You
give value to receive value. People who
download MP3 files are not giving value. They
are sucking value. That is not fair to
everyone else in society. It is certainly not
fair to the people who own the rights to the
product or fair to other people who paid good
money for the product.

* Some people say, "I cannot afford to buy the
recording, so I take it free." Well, if you
cannot afford to buy a car, can you expect to
get a car for free? I'm sorry, but if you
cannot afford something, you cannot get it.
We've helped to make our programs accessible
by offering the PhotoReading book for $16.95
and individual Paraliminal Tapes for $15-35 as
well as a variety of payment plans. But the
fact is, some people will not be able to
afford the programs.

* Others say, "I get downloads to sample the
product, and then I buy the product." In most
cases that is simply not true. Nonetheless,
we offer a perfect way to sample the product
with our liberal Satisfaction Guarantees. If
your are not completely satisfied, return it
for a refund.

* Others say that the issue is corporate
greed. That companies make too much money. I
walk through our office and look at our two
dozen employees who handle customer service,
coaching, accounting, development, and
marketing. I visit our call centers and see
over 75 people answering the phones. I go to
our fulfillment center and see six people
shipping product. We all earn a decent wages
and have many personal obligations, but no one
is over paid. When you take MP3 files, you are
stealing from all of these people that created
the product in the first place and service our
customers on an ongoing basis. We spend
millions of dollars each year on salaries. We
spend millions on advertising and marketing.
Our margins are very thin. We are constantly
trying to shave 1/4 of a penny of the cost of
each mailing that goes out, because direct
response marketing is expensive and every
expense adds up. Truly, every sale counts.
That's why we offered the forum: as a way to
give more benefit to our customers so that we
can earn more sales.

I take solace in knowing the karmic realities
of the world will eventually bite digital
pirates in the butt.

To the digital pirates: rise up and do the
right thing, As Chunyi Lin says, "People's
energy can change." If not, please be clear,
you are not welcome here.

To everyone else, thank you for your support.
We'll continue to do the best work we can to
innovate new and exciting ways for you to
experience and maximize your potential.
Coming up in February is a very cool course
called "Resiliency" that helps you rally a
power to bounce back to turn any misfortune
into good fortune.

If you haven't opted in to receive email from
us, do so today. Enter the contest to win
$250, and you will be opted in. We have a
series of email set to go out in the next
couple of weeks to introduce a new twist to
what we do. Paul Scheele and I are very
excited about this.

Be well, and keep the conversations going. I
enjoy dipping in and seeing what is on your
minds.







#34105 01/23/03 12:16 AM
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Uh...I'm not saying that piracy is right, but mentioning it on this board will probably increase the amount of freely downloading files of LSC products. Some people will probably see it and say,
"Oh, really? I better go download a file-sharing program!" or "I better go search for that!"

Myself, I'm going to be a lifelong LSC customer, you guys can be rest assured of that. I happen to have about $140 saved up, and as soon as I get enough I'm ordering another course. I've currently purchased the QiGong course, and the PR book. By the end of this year, I'll have given you guys over $500 of likely my own earned cash. (Or I'll rob my parents.) Your courses and materials are unlike anything I've seen before, and have fascinated me beyond a point you can probably comprehend.

I'm looking foward a lot to the Resiliency course, and perhaps a new way of going about doing things, you say? Great to hear it!

If Crazy Eddy can pull through, you guys DEFINITELY will.

-youngprer
geocities.com/doc5587/






#34106 01/23/03 12:33 AM
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Yeah, I have a lot of respect for LSC and I hope that anyone that does download the tapes or something will buy the course. You guys have a great company and some great programs. I alread have the PR course and genius code and plan on getting the memory course. Whats this new course he mentioned?






#34107 01/23/03 01:06 AM
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PIRACY=YOU'LL BURN IN MICROSOFT HELL

[This message has been edited by Chang Liu (edited January 22, 2003).]






#34108 01/23/03 03:19 AM
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CNETs article on Piracy, thought this was pertaining to the topic.
http://news.com.com/2100-1023-981449.html






#34109 01/24/03 06:04 AM
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I have to admit to being a former pirate. I had thousands of mp3 files, dozens of bootlegged software packages, and dozens of audio books. I hated software companies for charging what I thought was a lot of money for their stuff. I absolutely detested record companies for stealing from the artists then overcharging the consumer.

Two months ago, I erased all of it. It had bothered me for a while. And, as a budding entreprenuer, I didn't feel comfortable going into business on the other side of the equation.

Ultimately, I do believe you reap what you sow. And, though bootlegging may seem like a harmless endeavor, it robs the individual of his/her personal integrity.

With integrity, complete congruence between your word and actions and bold honesty, anything is possible for the individual. Without it, your foundation is weak and almost nothing of value can be created and survive through the ups and downs of life.








#34110 01/24/03 01:23 PM
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I'm not sure if this is really the place for a serious debate on piracy but I think some deeper thought will reveal more complexities about the issue then most people like to admit.

First, let us start with some core ideas. We are taught to share and not to steal. Why is this?

This is because we can see or identify with the other person and that it is not good when someone takes something from us, and yet it is advantegous to us and to our friends and neighbors when we share. Sharing is not just a good value but it is an ESTEEMED value even in many religions.

Now, commercial interest teach us that we should BUY things, and maybe it is even infered that we should not share. It is better to have something new then something old. This is a basic tenant of captialism and commercialism. Often times things are DESTROYED instead of sharing them (as in the case of books and magazines).

Provided that the goods are physical objects then capitalism and our higher moral and philosphical values seem fairly in-check. But, this may be decieving.

We start to see a rift when we get into digital products and goods because now we realize we can SHARE without stealing! In other words, what makes stealing wrong IS NOT that someone is getting something ADDITIONAL but that someone is losing something. If you see it any other way then you are being GREEDY.

However, it is clear that if the company suffers a LOSS from this then it may be a type of potential stealing. It is still not the same thing as flat out stealing but it does produce some negative effects so it is still harmful.

But, wait, we know that people have a limited amount of money yet we can run off virtually unlimited copies in the digital world for virtually no cost.

And, here we are starting to get into some of the real arguments regarding piracy. The amount of work people can do is limited and the amount of value that people can acquire is therefore limited. And, in capitalistic and commercialistic markets this follows a type of pyramid to the top. Sure Bill Gates can buy anything he wants but not his secretary.

Anway, the point is the potential loss from piracy can not be as great as the actual losses in many cases because the money just does not exist and can not exist.

Furthermore, people claim that piracy hurts the economy. A common example is a person doesn't buy a game so in turn a sales clerk doesn't take an order, a driver doesn't deliver a product, and this effects the economy all the way down to the little guy working as a janitor in a huge chain store. This is silly and not true. Why? Becuase we know that most people SPEND or invest all the money they have and this means that regardless if people are pirating then the economy as a WHOLE can not be suffering. Piracy can affect localized events such as the closing of a certain business but it can not do what a lot of anti-piracy advocates claim it can especially not in any long term fashion. Also, this type of localized HURT is inflicted all the times by competitors and other businesses yet we dont see the economy collapse because of competition.

Where is the money going? Ah, now we are talking. The money is being spent and is usually being spent on some other product or good. And sometimes this can create complex relationships such as a person wouldn't buy a big computer if he knew he couldn't pirate video games so that he does this and in turn if enough people do this then computers become cheaper and video games become better and sales still increase!

I'd like to address a few more points. It is obvious that these types of philosphical views and implications are not the true driving forces behind these mechanisms . Although, in many cases the want to share or help a friend is a factor so these ideas may play a small part.

More realistically driving this issue is a type of Darwinism struggle of products in the survival of the fittest. A car is more fit to be protected from piracy in todays time then a song. The system is a type of chaotic open ended system where predictions are hard to make and effects are difficult to ascertain.

Also, the ideas, belief sytems, what is right, and wrong is subject to change. The idea of sharing for collective benefit is NOT new.

A good example is library. I don't know much about the laws regarding the ability to check a book out of a library but considering people can donate books to libraries it is hard to imagine that the authors are getting a fair cut from the libraries. If collective sharing is so bad then why are libraries such an important part of our communities and looked upon as GOOD?

Also, rememember when most people buy products or licenses then generally that only applies to one person. However, of course, how wrong would you consider if a friend came over and wanted to listen to a CD you have? If you denied this then you would be considered doing wrong or at least a jerk and selfish.

And this brings up another good point, and that is that sometimes people claim the problem with piracy is that both the person who bought the product and the people who get it can both use it at the same time, and this is not true with libraries.

But, wait.. what if effiency is increased to the point where you could give your CD's to friends whenver you werent using them and get them back, and what if you cuold do this 24 hours a day? Is this not piracy? Yet this could NOT BE ILLEGAL because it is freely giving, albiet the person recieving the material may not decide to give it back. And, in many cases product wear and tear would become extreme but not with some things such as music CDS!

And, we see here what effeciency and technoloy can do to change the way we view things.

America and most capital markets esteem the individual worth. But, what of the greater collective worth of society? What if you have a very valuable product that can be pirated but people just dont have enough money to buy it! What if you starve to death and die yet the collective good to society will continue to live on. Harsh, and I'll probably take a few flames for that statement but is that not what nationalism and giving to ones country is about?! And patriotism?

However, I'd like to make a few notes against piracy. First, if piracy becomes so great as to stop evolution then piracy could hurt the collective good. This is definetly not the case in computer markets such as video games where the industry has contiunued to boom and become a more billion dollar market every year nor could one ascertain this by the position of some of the highest paid people in the world.

Also, again, the system is dynamic and without a type of monotoring program then it would be difficult to know the effect of individual piracy. Suffice it to say that piracy kept within check or provided that the product being sold is still competitive to the pirated product that piracy can maintain checked.

Also, piracy can have again strange effects for a person may not be able to buy an expensive program may settle and buy a smaller and cheaper program. And in this sense piracy could hurt the small people yet strangely it would have a positive effect on the company being pirated from. But the effects are just too complex to predict in any real way. We can only speculate.

Furthermore, one more important point. You can't copyright an idea! And you can't copyright something that is seen as obvious. Learning Strategies has the copyright to the PRODUCT they are producing but not to the ideas. A person could make another product much like there own and give it away or sell it completely legally.

One more note, and the most important, and I'll finish: People are always talking about helping the third world, helping the starving and the homeless, and if we could only had something to give then we would. And this is why I find Pete's remarks entirely disagreeable in that if a person can't afford something then they just can't have it. Do we tell the people who work in China or India that you make our products for something like $10 per month that sense you don't have the money you just can't have it? I say this is wrong and this attitude is what is wrong with the world today.

I don't support or condone specific cases of piracy. But we should seriously examine the implications of taking capitalistic and current copyright laws as unabiding truth. And, more thoroughly examine ways that everyone can benefit.

Thanks.







#34111 01/24/03 01:44 PM
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You're right. This isn't the place to debate piracy.

I gave up being an artist because here in Australia I have to pay 10% tax on the sale of my work. Thanks to the system I pay tax on the material and equipment, I simply can't afford that. Since my current income is below the poverty line. Someone else can come along and sell my piece for 10 to 100 times what I sold it for and not have to pay tax. Yep thats fair.

Have the idea, do the work and have someone else profit on the resale of it. Just because they bought it. Copyright laws being such that there are even occasions where I am *not* allowed to reproduce the artwork.

Alex

[This message has been edited by AlexK (edited January 24, 2003).]






#34112 01/24/03 03:08 PM
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I am all for sharing.

I borrow tools from my neighbor all of the time.

A friend's car broke down, and I gave him mine to use while I was out of town.

My guest room is always open to out of town friends.

I share favorite books, CDs, and courses.

Sharing makes the world go around.

But, when I have one of Dave's tools, he doesn't have it. If we both want it at the same time, then we need to buy another.

If you want to share your PhotoReading personal learning course, pass it around. But you only purchased one to pass around.

If you want to give it to a library, go right ahead. You can. You own that copy.

If you want to sell it in a garage sale when you are finished, sell it. But you only have one copy to sell.

Competition? I love it. It keeps us on our toes. I talk with many of our competitors every day. We share information to make us all stronger and better able to help our customers.

Some times we have to change what we are doing because of what a competitor is doing. That's part of life.

But, fair competition. Some of our competitors, and our Forum regulars probably know who they are, are unfair competitors. They play dirty pool by saying untrue things, misusing our trademarks, etc.

Piracy is unfair competition. Plain and simple. Which is one of the reasons it is illegal.

You are right. In the US you cannot copyright an idea. But, you can legally protect the expression, execution of an idea, which is why we have an attorney on staff.

Third World countries? Our materials are published all around the world. The publisher in China has sold tens of thousands of the two Chinese editions of PhotoReading book in the past few months for about $1 each. And the purchasers in China pay us a few pennies for each book.

It is amazing the arguments pirates and other cons make to justify their actions. It is situational ethics.







#34113 01/24/03 03:40 PM
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Yes but you realize if you could share more effeciently then sharing would become effectively pirating? The reason sharing is not attacked is simply because today it is very ineffecient.

For the sake of argument consider in the future a CD is downloaded that can not be PIRATED but can be shared or rather GIVEN to another person (ie sharing that CD destroys YOUR copy). Now, imagine if thousands of people pooled together to share everything 24 hours a day? Would you consider this unethetical, wrong, and stealing? This is simply sharing as you have outlined, and is what I alluded to in my message. It is simply EFFECIENTLY sharing.

Furthermore, for the sake of argument assume that computers have become cheaper because people buy them to pirate goods or have in the past. Now, for the sake of argument I'll assume you never pirate anything (and this seems reasonable considering your belief system), and yet you still reaped a reduced price on the computer system, and perhaps other digital goods because of thousands of pirates who enabled the computers to be mass produced. Likewise, perhaps your business has broadband, and you in theory may be reaping a reduced price due to music pirates.

Also, regarding competition, it is true that most pirates do not sell their goods yet you still compete with them (in a way most pirates don't provide technical support, printed materials, and trained instructors) but even more so you are competing with other products that can't be pirated.

It has been natural since the industrial revolution for the producer to become more and more effecient at producing and reap greater and greater gains but the possibility of the consumer gaining more effecientcy seems to be frightening.

Also, I don't want to discuss the merits of the actual product you are selling yet it is great that you have enabled thousands of people around the world to experience it at reduced rates. However, that pales in comparison to the millions more people who could be given so much more with the reality that virtually free all-digital production provides.

A person who makes $10 in some third world country with just 1 computer could have access to entire libraries, all the hollywood movies, all the books in the world, all the good video games ever produced, all the instruction programs, all the application programs, all the songs, all the newspapers ever printed in all the languages, millions of maps, and many other resources. Would this be wrong? I don't know but I certainly wont dismiss it outright.

While it may seem pointless to dicuss these types of things now. I would be willing to bet that if I said that such a network existed (that allowed to be effeciently and legally share) that the lawyers for record companies would try to stop it. And, actually, according to the law maybe sharing is ILLEGAL because this is making an agreement or a contract negotiation to get the material back so that more then one person uses the product. Freely giving something would still be free but even an implied contract to get something in return could be shown illegal. Do I buy that? Not at all, and for the same reason I'm not willing to buy that all pirates are theives or that piracy is doing as much damage as people claim.

Nor am I willing to buy that copyright laws should be the law of the land. What is right and what is wrong? The USA says that if we go to war and an Iraqi carries out an action of mass destruction then that Iraqi will face war crimes? But the did the people who dropped the atom bomb face war crimes? Is the hypothetical Iraqi soilder who risk death and commits treason against his own country a hero or a villain? I say everyone must be accountable to themselves, and to what is right and wrong regardless of the consequences.

I'm certainly for free speech especially on public forums. Yet, I think I have expressed my ideas well enough that further discussion on my part is not warranted.

Thanks, and thanks for your reply Pete.

[This message has been edited by light (edited January 24, 2003).]






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