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* i dont like the idea of other people dying so i can have a better life
NickR, this is preoccuping my mind a lot!!!
There is such a big interest the American Gov't has with the Mid east...
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about the war...I havent read all the posts so far on this and don't understand the ones I did read because I don't know much about politics, but has the war affected economics? as in...is the reason when I am trying to sell something and am looking at prices for some things I want to sell on ebay its been going down lately? And if so, will they go back up when the war is over? It may be this because it is vintage stuff for music and is analog and all and usually that sorta stuff goes up in price and has increased since what it cost in the 80s when first came out, but now its gone down.
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Alot of the problems with the economy is when ppl THINK the economy is going down, they don't spend as much money, then that causes it to actually drop due to the lower spending.
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Personally i believe that since our elected president (according to the rules(dont give me the popular vote bs)) has decided that a war in Iraq is vital to our future (with respect to security or economy). We should at the very least be supportive of OUR soldiers! War is not wonderful, but if it is deemed necessary by our well advised (if not wise) leader, we should work together to see its completion. Protesting wont stop this war, instead we should focus our energy on humanitarian aid. Just my opinion. Be pragmatic, bush has far more information then we do, and a strong intelligent cabinet, he knows what he is doing!(if you doubt that, then you might want to recall that he WON the election) p.s.- razor: love the hunting analogy, heheh
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quote:
Originally posted by Tipinez:
Of course Bush is not one who governes by national opinion polls as mentionned by Astrowill. If he cared he would not be president at all. Since we have a president who was appointed and we have no choice but to support a war, not because we wanted or needed it, but because that president decided to start it; the question is why should we bother with such words as freedom and democracy, why not let Tommy Frank and the Pentagon rule this country too? After all if it will be good for Irak it could be good for the US as well!
I'm not sure which side you're on here. This nation is a republic--we elect people who will make the right decisions for us.
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quote:
Originally posted by astrowill:
I'm not sure which side you're on here. This nation is a republic--we elect people who will make the right decisions for us.
Yet again, I am forced out of my retirement in the sheer interest of correcting the opinions of certain people on this board- opinions, which, I believe, are representative of the type of superficial thinking which characterizes much of America, and indeed, much of the world. We are a nation that is all to often too preoccupied with who is going to get voted off the island next, rather than our own inner lives, nor the real lives of those in this world around us. Because people like "Astrowill" are too eager to label, and dichotomize people into a for/against oversimplified delusion, I will state that I am happily neither. As a tendency, I don't support violence, but I am not totally opposed, either. Frankly, the Bush administration scares me. Saddam should go, but their is so much that is going on in addition to the obvious conflict. I think that we need to view this as a geopolitical conflict, not a moral crusade against the evildoers-- everyone who harbors that notion needs to be lined up and shot...well, not really, as I've said I'm not extremist unless by necessity: they need to shut up, and start actually thinking. As proof of my assertion: The Bush administration has covered up that it was the Saudis who were largely responsible for 9/11, you don't see us "punishing" them. In fact, they may play a role in the post-Saddam Iraq. Iraq has terrorist elements, obviously. But they also have a lot of the world's oil. Guess what, the Bush administration has recently announced that they are going to let the coalition forces have the first dibs on the oil, and the opposition- France, Germany, Russia, China - NONE. Also, they have indicated that Dick Cheneys former company-- which he only reluctantly resigned from AFTER the election-- has already been approved to be a part of post-Saddam Iraq reconstruction. Unlike what certain people on this board have so emotionally, and so pathetically asserted, it seems that this war may be just "blood for oil". In addition, our officials have pursued a hard-line policy of economic intimidation to scare the rest of the world into supporting us. And that's not all. Our secretary of defense, Donald Rum-Field, has already said that Syria and Iran are going to be "held accountable" and "punished" for their committing activities which could be described as "unhelpful". Our attempts at intimidation went so far as to threaten to cut trade-relations with Germany, a move which would cost the Germans billions of euros. In addition, we are already tense with the Germany-led europe over their funding and support of the PLO in Palestine. In short, Iraq is just an extension of geopolitical manoeuvring which will lead us further down the path of isolationism, and into a world filled with more violence, ignorance, and xenophobia. Patriotic yahooing contributes to this problem, so does the type of thinking which wants to break everything down into for/against yes/no good/evil and other such binaries. Until we overcome such thinking we are nothing but domesticated apes, with a serious ego-tripping complex. All that I've said has totally ignored that domestically we are getting SCREWED by Bush's policies and this war in general. Our civil liberties are threatened, our money is being siphoned off, and conservative yahoos are on the rise. This nation is ideally a republic where we elect leaders to make the right decisions for us. In reality we have an unelected president, and a whole milieu of leaders who are unwilling to properly support their reasons for war, and who are content to mislead the public. If you are unsure about the previous statement I refer you to my previous posts, and if you still need more than I have prepared a list of certain government agencies and policies which I will email to you, on request. This is the same list which was deleted by the powers-that-be on this board. So in the end, am I for or against the war, you ask. I repeat, I am neither, and proud of it. I don't like Saddam and I don't like Bush, unfortunately one leader is vastly more powerful, dangerous, and willing to flout his cowboy guns at the expense of his own country than the other. K. "Happily Hammering the Idols" O.
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Tıpkı Irak'a yönelik şok ve dehşet operasyonunu Amerikan televizyonlarının ‘‘az sonra’’ mantığıyla sunması gibi Es-Sahaf da saatler önceden ‘‘sürprizi’’ haber verdi.
İstilacı güçlere karşı ‘‘bir çeşit şahadet operasyonları’’ düzenleyeceklerini söyleyen Es-Sahaf, ‘‘konvansiyonel olmayan’’ yöntemler kullanacakları tehdidinde bulundu, ancak istilacı güçlere karşı kimyasal ya da biyolojik silah kullanma planları olmadığını bildirdi.
Amerikan kuvvetlerini parçalara böldüklerini belirterek, teker teker yok edeceklerini ifade eden Muhammed es-Sahaf, Amerikan birliklerinin Bağdat havalimanında ‘‘tecrit edilmiş bir adada’’ bulunduklarını belirterek, ‘‘Saddam havalimanında çevrilmiş ABD güçlerinin buradan canlı çıkmaları kolay olmayacak. Konvansiyonel olmayan, askeri olmayan bir sürpriz yapacağız. Hepsi ölecek. Kerbela yakınlarında Amerikan kuvvetlerini parçalara ayırdık. Teker teker yok edeceğiz’’ diye konuştu.
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Wow, Kristoff. You are certainly impressed with your own intellectual superiority. When it's quiet, do you hear the black helicopters coming for you? Do you also count yourself among those who believe that Bush, Gore, and the royal family are shape-shifting, baby-eating lizards? No one has "covered-up" the fact that most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi citizens. This does not necessarily implicate the Saudi government. If there is a government in that region that desperately needs our backing, it is the Saudi government. Of course, that doesn't mean that they WEREN'T involved. They are as duplicitous as any "government." As far as giving "dibs" on the oil, the US government has repeatedly stated that the oil belongs to the Iraqi people. However, assuming they are being disingenuous, should we be troubled by the fact that they have purposely excluded countries who took an active involvement in arming Saddam over the last 12 years? Why exactly did France need to help Iraq develop nuclear power when Iraq is one of the most oil rich countries in the world? Iraq had no need for nuclear power; only a madman's desire drove the transaction. As the Iraqi people gain more confidence that the US and Britain aren't going to stiff them again, they will continue to show increasing gratitude for being released from a megalomaniacal dictator and his psychopathic offspring. Only the US representatives have maintained an active interest in their welfare, providing medical assistance, food and water. The Saddam stooges continue to torture and abuse them as they grasp desperately for power.
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quote:
Originally posted by slithy toves:
Wow, Kristoff. You are certainly impressed with your own intellectual superiority. When it's quiet, do you hear the black helicopters coming for you? Do you also count yourself among those who believe that Bush, Gore, and the royal family are shape-shifting, baby-eating lizards?No one has "covered-up" the fact that most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi citizens. This does not necessarily implicate the Saudi government. If there is a government in that region that desperately needs our backing, it is the Saudi government. Of course, that doesn't mean that they WEREN'T involved. They are as duplicitous as any "government." As far as giving "dibs" on the oil, the US government has repeatedly stated that the oil belongs to the Iraqi people. However, assuming they are being disingenuous, should we be troubled by the fact that they have purposely excluded countries who took an active involvement in arming Saddam over the last 12 years? Why exactly did France need to help Iraq develop nuclear power when Iraq is one of the most oil rich countries in the world? Iraq had no need for nuclear power; only a madman's desire drove the transaction. As the Iraqi people gain more confidence that the US and Britain aren't going to stiff them again, they will continue to show increasing gratitude for being released from a megalomaniacal dictator and his psychopathic offspring. Only the US representatives have maintained an active interest in their welfare, providing medical assistance, food and water. The Saddam stooges continue to torture and abuse them as they grasp desperately for power.
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