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#43525 01/13/05 05:18 PM
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But you have to admit the guy that wrote that arguement IS out to disprove something. And the oddest part about it, he didn't know enough about what he was disproving to make a logical arguement. Keeping options open is good, as long as you research things and direct your thinking. Because that guy didn't do his homework, quite obviously. If he knew more about Photoreading, he would understand how psychology applies to that, every step of the way.

#43526 01/14/05 06:34 AM
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Sure. The person who wrote it had an axe to grind.

However, there is useful information in the article to consider.

On the board on which the quoted post appeared a person said this:

"There are actually quite a few experiments looking directly at how well something can be understood and retained when it is picked up unconsciously. As it turns out, the unconscious isn't very smart in this respect."

Is this true?

My own experiences with photoreading have been rather haphazard. Sometimes it really helps, sometimes it really doesn't.

And using semantics as is done in these arguments really doesn't serve to provide much useful information. Many labels are misleading. Take "photoreading" itself, for instance. It has nothing to do with photographic memory and the photoreading part of the process has nothing to do with reading as we know it. So you say "photoread at over 30,000 words per minute!" to an audience that is not privvy to the actual definition of the term? What are they going to think? Certainly something along the lines of, "Well, they mean presenting information to my preconscious processor to have it later triggered and brought into conscious awareness through a learned process," right? No. They are going to think that they will have conscious access to information that is part of a photographic memory somehow derived through the process. It's misleading.

Also, IMO differentiating the subconscious from the preconscious in this argument is pretty useless. The terms "subconscious" and "unconscious" are very broad and very messy, and many people will use them interchangeably with "preconscious." Arguing that "preconscious" information is not "unconscious" to me seems little more than semantic and does not serve to present any useful distinctions. To me, the preconscious is a subset of the unconscious, but then again I am not incredibly acquainted with the accepted use of these terms in certain circles.

I understand that someone studying something should learn all about it they can and become familiar with its nomenclature.

The argument presented, however, raises an interesting question: based on what we know about the brain, can the parts involved in processing visual information and the parts involved in comprehending written material communicate in a way that supports the claims made by LSC regarding photoreading?

In photoreading two primary skills seem to be involved: 1) delivering information to the unconscious (yes, I am using that term) with the greatest bandwidth and accuracy, and 2) developing the conscious/unconscious interface so that information in the unconscious can be brought into conscious understanding and properly contextualized.

The whole hype about photoreading, which is encouraged by LSC's ad copy BTW, brings focus away from what it actually is and toward misconceptions about it.

[This message has been edited by babayada (edited January 14, 2005).]


#43527 01/15/05 02:35 AM
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However, there is useful information in the article to consider.

On the board on which the quoted post appeared a person said this:

"There are actually quite a few experiments looking directly at how well something can be understood and retained when it is picked up unconsciously. As it turns out, the unconscious isn't very smart in this respect."

Is this true?

-Yes, I think so, because the subconscious normally can't discriminate information, debatably, that's done during activation in this case. But it's like a child, very impressionable, but it is smart in that amount of things that it can do at once. Keep the heart beating, all of processes of the body, picking up TONS of information and stimuli.


They are going to think that they will have conscious access to information that is part of a photographic memory somehow derived through the process. It's misleading.

-As far as a title for photoreading, I bet the term "speed reading" was avoided, because this isn't the situation exactly. The audience may not think that, exactly, and if you've heard the saying, "You can't judge a book by its cover," it would apply to this circumstance. The scientist going on an explanation to disprove photoreading with his limited amount of information, would be a good example of judging a book by it's cover.

Also, IMO differentiating the subconscious from the preconscious in this argument is pretty useless.

-This is a commonly debated issue, just as the theories of development arguing between stages and continuous, sequencial physical development. When you're learning psychology, you're not always learning facts, you're learning studies. It's not nearly as tangible as other sciences, like anatomy for example.


The argument presented, however, raises an interesting question: based on what we know about the brain, can the parts involved in processing visual information and the parts involved in comprehending written material communicate in a way that supports the claims made by LSC regarding photoreading?


-Is there solid proof either way? The conscious mind can pick up visual stimuli, so how would the subconscious mind be different? The common belief in a lot of cognitive psychology is that the subconscious primarily processes information of the peripheral vision, and probably stimuli in direct focus after the conscious mind has processed it. This is all debatable too.


2) developing the conscious/unconscious interface so that information in the unconscious can be brought into conscious understanding and properly contextualized.

-In my experience, it's like trying to remember something that you once knew so well but it's on the "tip of the tongue", and you look it up and your eyes hit a visual cue and BAM there is! I wouldn't say it's training it to do that, although improvement can be made in that aspect. As far as actually recalling the memories, I think that's a natural ability, because I've had plenty of those experiences, before, when trying to remember something. This is all in my experience, so it may not be true for everyone else.


The whole hype about photoreading, which is encouraged by LSC's ad copy BTW, brings focus away from what it actually is and toward misconceptions about it.

-I think this is true for the TV ad, because there was a demonstration of spontaneous activation. But besides this specific example, can you really blame LSC? The audience is actually the party that contains the misconceptions, and those can be settled by learning about the system.

I also think that we're missing the central idea, that it does work, and does have true potential in some ways. Even if you dig into the science of it, you still have to match that up with personal experience. Skepticism is good, and thought provoking, but skepticism isn't limited to photoreading alone. I think an amount of skepticism is good as long as the intent is to learn, in the end. That's why most of us are here, right?


#43528 01/15/05 05:24 AM
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Adam,

I am in agreement with you for the most part.

For your question, can you really blame LSC for the misconceptions concerning photoreading, I have to answer yes, you can.

The name of a product or process is important in terms of marketing, and I don't think it's any mistake that it was named "Photoreading." It's catchy and provocative. The ideas it provokes, however, are not exactly in direct correspondence to the reality it delivers. But I don't think that's a problem for LSC, because it sells.


#43529 01/15/05 06:23 AM
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Most of what we kknow about the brain has only been uncovered in the last 7 or so years.
Brain research is still in it's infancy.

We do know that 90% of all learning takes place non consciously. The fact that the brain continues to try and solve our daytime problems during sleep has is proven by some recent researd data,

Alex


#43530 01/15/05 10:32 PM
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I am really happy with the post , all the justification have given me a postive hope , I am going to give it a shot ,with 100% attention ,and let u ppl know ,

The moment I photoread My first book,trust me it wud be me who replies in that forum


#43531 01/26/05 06:13 AM
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if u follow all the steps except the photoreading step, it works the same. i have tried this and notice no difference at all. maybe others do but i dont!

#43532 01/27/05 05:07 PM
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If people followed the other steps they would be able to double their reading speed. PhotoReading takes you beyond that.

Alex


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this is my belief in why photoreading is theoretically possible. it is a very simple answer. walk into any room, large or small. or out on the street, anywhere. immediately you see thousands of objects, colours, textures etc. you see them, you comprehend them, instantly!...isn't it possible that you could read the same way. and no, i do not believe you read every word, but your brain can scan quickly looking for something that is relevant to you, the information you need to gather from the book. i mean, even if you read a book slowly, how much do you retain. only the basic points, you could not begin to quote pages from the book without concentrating, but you have gotten the information. going back to my original example. you could not list every item you saw on the street or in the room, but you would have no trouble answering questions like, did you see a dog, were there people in the room. the information that is relevant to you has all been gathered in an instant, and almost as quickly discarded because you do not need to store it....but you would not have to look twice to remember if the room was on fire.

does this explanation make sense to experienced photoreaders? i am not even a photoreader, (have the course and have not had time to use it) though i naturally have used some of the techniques.

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here is another thing i just thought of as an example to try to prove how photoreading could work (i mean how to make someone understand how it could)
imagine yourself looking at a story, which is written for a child, or a scientific journal. how much do you actually have to read to figure out
one from the other? i think just a glance, would be the answer? right? why?
your brain instantly recognizes the shape and length of the words, the punctuation etc. i think this example should be able to convince someone that we get a lot more than we think, just from our glances.
maybe this is why we instinctively thumb quickly through a book to see if we are interested to read it.
i'd love some feed back on what i have written!

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