Forums IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ Spring Forest Qigong Gigong Alpha Theta Delta

What would be the disadvantages or benefits, if any, listening to CD's or tapes that put the brain in either alpha, theta or delta while doing gigong?

Master Lin says you should practice only one system at a time.

Continued regular practice will put your mind in the correct state. Changing the practice may change where you end up.

It's nice to think you can accelerate your progress, and maybe you can. However, unless you've been there before, how do you know if you've gotten there faster. Then with mental practice once you've learn how to get there consistently, it takes you much less time to get there once you decide to get there.

It's a tough thing to figure out. How do you tell if two people are at the same place mentally? You need to measure, or trust in validity of different people describing something. Which is really hard if you want to know which experience is better.

Using my favourite analogy base Star Wars. Let's take episode I where Count Dooku (sp?) and Yoda are dueling it out. Both seem to be able to control the force equally well, but are they both at the same place mentally. Which experience is better than the other.

I'm not trying to suggest that audio inducers are the dark-side. I'm just trying to point out what I see as a very difficult question to answer. So you may not get a very satisfying answer.

You'll probably get the view point that some prefer to access their states totally within themselves. That their is a potential problem of developing a dependency on external aids to achieve your goals.

Personally, I've chosen to follow Master Lin's teachings. I am concerned about what constitutes studying more than one system at a time. I know that practicing more than one system at a time is against what he says.

You are perfection.
Iam2

Hi 4Space:

Good question and you can find lots of discussions on this forum on many of these tapes such as Holosync.

I spent several years practicing with these tapes and found them to be quite powerful and helpful. To use these tapes is a mechanical way to push your brain to different operating levels. They are kind of like a treadmill for a runner and force your brain into deeper states and help you to unload a lot of stress and mental and emotional blockages and junk stored in your body. I think for people starting out with meditation they can be very helpful to allow you to experience deep meditative and relaxing levels. I never mixed SFQ practice with listein to these tapes SFQ, but would just do them at different times of the day, because in SFQ instead of relying on a mechanical way to push our brains we rely on a master, the universe or god.

I no longer use these tapes at all as I believe and trust in the universe/god to take my brain to the right place while practicing SFQ. I find that I am much more disciplined and thoughtful both during and after SFQ practice and no longer need the mechanical push.

Agent B

I personally feel that Chunyi Lin has already provided the best alpha / theta music anyway.

In a sense looking for entrainment from tapes and CDs while doing qigong is like saying to yourself that you don't trust your brain to go to the right place to experience the emptiness we also rob ourselves of awareness of getting there. We get there but in our mind it was the entrainment CD that did it.

We've become great at multitasking and in a lot of areas in our lives it's even necessary. Qigong is a simgle minded experience and in a sense the moment we close our eyes, say the password and call on our master we are effectively already there. Our only job is to notice our experience while we are there and enjoy it.

We're not broken, don't need fixin, just need to clear some blockages that our rushed and multitasking lives have left behind.

Alex

I tend to disagree in some regards of the alpha/theta/delta thing. I do not think that using the CD's while performing SFQ is a wise idea having learned this through experience. In it's own time of the day it is fantastic.

Many years ago atheletes were warned against using weight lifting because it would make them muscle bound and hinder performance, this was from the experts. Now days it is hard to find any athelete who doesn't incorporate weight lifting into their training program, it is almost unthinkable if they compete. In the future I believe that using these CD's will be the same for personal developement.

To inject uncertainty as to who is is in a better mental space Yoda or the Count, they both think they are, I am just an observer.

Bill Harris of Centerpointe recommends SFQ to all of his clients, in fact he recommends most all of the Learning Strategies Courses yet I have never recieved anything from Learning Strategies for recommending the Centerpointe program.

My Master once taught me that the Path is so wide that no one person has all the answers.
I enjoy SFQ, my connection to the Universe and the guidance from Masters. I also enjoy very much the work out I get from Holosync CD's. There are going to be alot more people coming down the path who will practice both.

Jeff

jeffdengr, I reread my post and I understand how my Star War analogy which has the good guy bad guy imagery could be taken as a "Don't do it" statement. It wasn't meant that way. I agree that both Yoda and Dooku think they are right. If you consider hundreds (or is it thousands) of Jedi and only a few Sith. Who is a greater agent for restoring balance to the universe.

Master Lin's message is one of healing. I trust that his is a true path for growth to healing. I also trust that much of his teaching can be used for other than healing. I also feel confident that he would not say that his teachings cover the entire scope of qigong or human growth.

Master Lin has identified Confidence and Faith as two of six key elements in SFQ. I've chosen to express these elements in the system he has developed.

I try to be careful to not advice when I do not have a strong feeling to direct. For this question, for this person I've chosen to share some thoughts. I've chosen to come from my conscious mind with caring.

My last statement about what constitutes "following" his teaching is truely MY concern. I'm naturally curious and want to explore and grow too. Currently I elected to only engage other material on an intellectual level and not a practice. However, that is my choose.

I really believe that Master Lin would say you can and should follow your own path. However, he would probably say that you should choose one system and master it to a significant level, then when you have the resource to see chart your own course then you should use the resource to follow your path. I think it comes down to believing if the conscious mind is the best tool for guidance. I know I did for forty years. Now I'm choosing a different balance for making my decisions.

I understand that each person's path is unique. That the path of least resistance isn't necessarily the path to greatest enlightenment. I know the first 20 years of my life were very easy, but in my next 20 years I had to learn some things that others had already learned.

Is using other systems good better best? I don't know. When I learn about so many other techniques they all seem so similar to me. Like they are approaching the same sort of thing from different directions. I don't think any of them are wrong or bad, just different.

I personally, have chosen to follow Master Lin. Once I have attained a level of mastery with his system it may be time for me to follow another path. I don't know and I choose to stand here and now and see my next step. I have other wants and desires that would pull me from the path, but I've chosen to follow this one. I know that for me this is the right chose. Twenty years ago, maybe even five years ago I wouldn't had that confidence in my own knowledge and decision, but today I know it is correct for me. I find that looking inwards has given me something that I don't get from looking outwards. I still do both. I guess you should always keep a balance and a flow between the two. I feel that for me Master Lin is the best teacher for charting that course inward.

I am not advising either way on this question. I do see it as difficult. I'm am just sharing. I personally wish some people try mixing, because I would like to have some information about that path. However, I would also wish each person the best for them.

I want the best for my children and so I often tell them No, because that is want they need.

You are perfection.
Iam2

Aloha 4space, jeffdengr, Alex, Iam2,Yoda, Dooku, and all the rest at this Mos Eisly Spaceport,

Wow, with all the SW analogies flying around, I'm surprised Mayflower hasn't shown up with at least a smile. Iam2, with eating and size innuendos about me earlier in the year in this Forum, you'd get a kick out of the fact that my youngest sister's nickname for me is Jabba.

I appreciated your post Alex:

quote:

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In a sense looking for entrainment from tapes and CDs while doing qigong is like saying to yourself that you don't trust your brain to go to the right place to experience the emptiness we also rob ourselves of awareness of getting there. We get there but in our mind it was the entrainment CD that did it.

---

Chuyni did not have objections to the Holosync work that was apart of the same Euphoria course he had a section in, however he'd recommend giving it and SFQ their individual time.

jeffdengr: Learning Strategies does do endorsement mailings regarding CenterPointe's Holosync program now and then. The reason you haven't seen them is probably due to our marketing's selection system -why should they send it to you when you already have the course? Drop in on our website throughout this next year -I think you'll find some things of interest.

Much Love, Shawn

[This message has been edited by Shawn_Grim (edited August 25, 2004).]

Iam2; I understand your position very well. After my early years doing Vietnam and stumbling around the Bering Sea fishing I finally met probably the greatest teacher in my life who made me work on breathing and meditation. For 5 years, everyday, I did this and went through so many changes becoming more calm and complete until one day, I received a message from the Masters, "You are done.Get out of here and go back to work". It changed me forever. In doing that training I would not have left it for anything else in the world. My Teacher was not a healer but a very energetic being who graciously helped me. Master Lin, it is easy to detect, that he is also a great Living Treasure and time spent with him is priceless.

My point in this not to say anything negative but that something looks like it needs to be worked out regarding those who practise Holosync Meditation and also Spring Forest Qigong as these numbers are going to increase. And these people should be made to feel welcome. Right now it seems to get this mark against it called "Mixing Practices" which I believe is a misunderstanding.

Another point I would like to bring up is that life is an open system. We don't just run on train tracks or live in a box. We fly to space, we sail the seas, we shrink ourselves into sub atomic particles and expand to the ends of the Universe. We also do all the everyday tasks of living.As a person developes they can take on more and more.

Shawn, I will look at the Web Page. If there is reference to Centerpointe then I stand corrected. Thank you for pointing it out.

Jeff

So - a newby here - what do you mean by "system"? Other systems of qigong, or any system - such as other learning programs like thoes available through Learning Strategies?

It seems to me that my past experience has been that some programs support my path and others do not - and that intuitively I know which do and which don't.

I'm interested in the experience of others regarding this situation.

Blessings!
Jenny

jeffdengr thank you for being gracious and open. My last post started because I noted a possible misinterpretation. I believe we are of a similar mind.

I'll back Shawn up on that Holosync info from LSC. I have recieved product offers from other companies through Learning Strategies. I have a Nigthingale Conant product on the Silva Ultramind system in front of me now. I also recall a Centrepoint product being offered to me this year.

4space, SFQ is just one of I'm guessing hundreds of qigong systems. The are also some western developed techniques (systems) that work towards the same sort of things as qigong. Silva and Holosync are just two. You could consider forms of hypnosis as a third.

There are others with more and broader experience than I have. Maybe some of them will share their experience.

You are perfection.
Iam2