Forums IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ Spring Forest Qigong What is Emptiness?

Gosh. For me it is not a place of darkness or nothingness. For me the "emptyness" is a lot more like "the fullness." It is quite akin to what some call "the field of all possibilities."

It may very well be the ending point of all creation just as it is the starting point for all creation. Source and destination.

It seems more of a place where the dualities have not yet seperated. Where it ain't white/black good/bad us/them.

It's just a place before the time-space continuum begins to chop things up into little pieces only to reassemble them again after the game is over.

Aloha AlanHilton,

You'll find a cultural perspective piece to this also.

You'll find some who's "emptiness" paradigm is "not this, not this, not this...", and others that come from "and this, and this, and this..." Both of these have been flavored with centuries of living conditions and core beliefs.

Chunyi will talk about Levels of the Emptiness, or more maybe appropriately, distinctions of awarness in the emptiness.

Is the emptiness where all the mind chatter stops? Sure.

Is he emptiness where one can hear all? Sure.

Is it where everything goes black? Sure.

Is it where you see wonderfull colors and messages pass before you like a movie? Sure.

The emtiness is the emptiness. In SFQ we are not looking to define it, but rather "tuning" our energy in alignment with it.

Much Love, Shawn

[This message has been edited by Shawn_Grim (edited August 09, 2005).]

Thanks again - all of you for your thoughts and ideas. I am understanding more & more. Started my exercises yesterday. Had some dreams about strands (or threads) of different colors in the dark - just existing or moving slowly. Only once in a while I recall dreams.

Now I'm thinking emptiness is more like a state of mind like "love" or "joy" or "happiness" or "smell" or "taste" ... we understand as we accept a new state of mind. After all, how do you explain smell of rose to someone who doesn't know what that means? How do you describe the taste of an apple who doesn't have taste buds or knows what an apple is. How do you describe a geometric point - the smallest object? You can't. You just accept it to be a state of existance. "Emptiness" is another state of existance in our mind - we accept it as we experience it and know that it is unique and doesn't compare to anything else.

Shawn you said, "In SFQ we are not looking to define it, but rather "tuning" our energy in alignment with it."

A couple of radom thoughts surfaced.

How can you define the undefinable?
When are we ever not in alignment with it?

If you have time to reply, I'd love to hear what you personally experience when Chunyi says, "the emptiness." Is there is any consitency, or is it all-ways different for you?

The "emptiness" is everything that IS- everything else is a distraction.

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Shawn you said, "In SFQ we are not looking to define it, but rather "tuning" our energy in alignment with it."
A couple of radom thoughts surfaced.

How can you define the undefinable?

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As my almost two-year-old would say: “Yeah!”. It's similar to Chunyi's "what is energy" conversation in level I or Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching.

quote:

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When are we ever not in alignment with it?

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Being in alignment with, is different than being a part of, just as being a part of your family is different than being in alignment with it.

quote:

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If you have time to reply, I'd love to hear what you personally experience when Chunyi says, "the emptiness." Is there is any consistency, or is it all-ways different for you?

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Yes, it is a busy week: many Rejuv sessions to give; Darcie starts healing with Chunyi at the center in September; and we need to find a wonderful toddler school for Isaiah by that time. Ahhh... but we are taking next week off to go to a cabin to be a part of and in alignment with my brothers, sisters, and parents.

This is opening a big can of Tao I can not help to think of the many levels a true master of massage could use to describe the possibilities. How the massage student or scholar would have a bazillion diagrams, systems, and techniques to explain it, while a true master would probably keep it extremely simple and deep with referring to it as "being willing to touch and be touched."

I’d recommend for those reading this to be in gratitude with what is in our experience now, is the place to be rather than another’s.

There is a lot of depth to the Level I course. Re-listening to the lecture tapes over time can open up some real gems. Chunyi is not only a good qigong practitioner, but a good scholar and researcher too. He tends to talk about “Levels of the Emptiness” in his third class, which I think Iam2 may have mentioned in an earlier post.

There is a lot regarding levels of the emptiness that I am just not currently ably to articulate in a manner that would be appropriate or relatable, but the below is at least a taste. So I apologize now if the following isn’t what you were looking for, as generalizing tends to be the only way for me to attempt sharing even a piece of it.

If I am seeking an answer to a question, that is a different type of meditation They each tend to be consistent in their over all "feel", but the experience itself can be varied depending on what my intent is before going into meditation.

That is not the same as going into deep mediation

One could say going into the emptiness/deep meditation it more like “Levels of trusting the ‘universe’.” Like most people, it started for me with learning to purposefully wind down the mind like a little boy before bed time. After the mental energy was released, then came time for the emotions, then fears, then ego. then myself, then everything.

If images or pictures showed up, I’d thank and stop them –yes, there are some cool experiences that can show up like a golden flash and hue over the all-and-nothing with “Welcome” spoken to you, but they don’t exist in the emptiness and are just another a distraction like the mind chatter I started with. so I just keep letting them go and going deeper...

I had the privilege of Presenting with Master Jim Nance at the SFQ International Conference this May. Although the main focus was on sitting postures, the second half was a beautifully done piece on "Going into the Emptiness." I'll have to see about getting that turned into an article for the SFQ International Guild's newsletter when it’s up and rolling.

Much Love,

Shawn

Shawn, thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule. I certainly wish you well with your myriad activities.

When we're young we seem to be more directly connected, or is it less dis-connected? Hanging out with two year olds is both fun and challenging. Must be alot like running this discussion forum <grin>

Indeed an individual's experience is what we are talking about here. On a discussion forum like this, to me, when folks share their personal experiences it is especially wonder-full.

Some experiences I can relate to, having had similar ones. Others are very different. Commonality and uniqueness, both in good measure.

My sense of wonder is how we can even use words to describe things like going into the emptiness and profound respect for those who make the effort.

You said, "Being in alignment with, is different than being a part of, just as being a part of your family is different than being in alignment with it."

Thank you for the distinction. It works on a local level, but if you chunk up to a place where we are all one, then you doing what you want instead of what your family thinks you should do is part of "the unfolding" where we manifest the uniqueness rather than the sameness.