Forums IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ Spring Forest Qigong Time and Space

Thanks for sharing your stories ...

I suppose my experience is actually quite different ... I was always very sensitive to the "now" quite naturally, ever since I was a child. Somehow, perhaps because of my natural disposition, perhaps my family upbringing, (or perhaps having been a Buhhdist monk in a past life, hee hee...), I have naturally been "in the moment" in whatever I do.

Yes, I do enjoy meditation as an exercise to quiet my mind, but when I finish and move on to doing something else, I still feel very aware of the moment. In a sense, all of my life is like a meditation, even when I'm not explicitly meditating. I suppose that's why I sense a conflict when some guru tells me I have to follow a certain regiment of "daily" this-or-that, because to me, my life is one continuous flow of a single action: Being. There's no difference to me when I'm doing something like Qigong and when I am not. To me, everything is Qigong.

I like that Zen story:

A student once asked his teacher, "Master, what is enlightenment?"

The master replied, "When hungry, eat. When tired, sleep."

Anyway, thanks again for the delightful discussion ... I wish all of you well on your own paths.

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Originally posted by hartreefoch:
In enlightened philosophy, one moment in time is the same as every other moment, and one point in space is the same as every other point. (After all, that's the basis for doing distance/group healing sessions, which do not depend on time and space.)

If this is true, that time and space are merely illusions, then why do we need to practice things like Qigong "every day"? Why are we encouraged to practice Qigong "as long and as often as possible?" "The more, the better?"

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Because we're not enlightened. Yet.

All those premises of "enlightened philosophy", as you put it, are only experientially true, to one who is actually enlightened. If one isn't, they seem paradoxical, contradictory, hard to understand, etc.

Dear Hartreefoch,

I just finished reading your first post and recognized that state of mind, that I have all too often visited upon myself. Frustrated in the perplexity of the desperate attempt to neatly compartmentalize that which can not be compartmentalized, we wait and search for a neat and tidy answer that won't be found, not by mind . The great thing however is that truth is eternal and will be there for us whenever we are ready to receive it, it is inexhaustible. Mind however will exhaust itself, shriveling in sections here and there granting truth some avenue of passage. You are not your mind you are that behind your mind and all other's minds as well. I believe that when one knows this on more than an intellectual basis, he or she is then enlightened. I work very diligently on staying in the now and observing my thoughts and acts and I must say it is an extremely difficult uphill battle all the way. It is all too easy to get caught up in our ingrained patterns on both an individual and group level. So we just keep plugging away, doing the best that we can in any given moment. I have watched the ways in which my mind uses me and am presently trying to take back the reigns. For myself I have realized that what I seek I am and what I truly am has all the answers, answers which mind can never grasp. So, in this knowing, when I find myself questioning things of spirit, I recognize it to be only mind, because true self knows and does not need question. I have put all my faith in this and it is in this I rest.

I must agree with Ingrid regarding both books mentioned, though The Power of Now is my favorite, and Courses in Miracles is also quite good. I never completed the later though, I came to a line where Jesus said "There is nothing about me that you can not attain. I have nothing that does not come from God. The difference between us now is that I have nothing else. This leaves me in a state that is only potential for you." Since I read that I know that my only way back to the Garden of Eden is to bring myself back to the original state of nakedness that was Adam and Eve pre snake, pre mind. I do qigong for the movement of energies that I am aware of and more especially for those that hide. I do it to move from intellectual to experiential. Like Ingrid I was very drawn in and felt at once complete love and trust for Master Lin. All this from a book cover. I knew he was the one I was to learn from, and only one thing could KNOW with the certainty I felt, and it trumped mind .

As far as gurus telling you what to do. I will leave you with this interesting take on the word guru given in a talk by an enlightened Ivy LeDuece (no doubt misspelled) from the Meher Baba Spiritual Foundation. She said to all those enquiring about gurus-Gee YoU R yoU, aren't you? That always stuck with me.
Be what you are in this moment whether that you practices Qigong or not makes no difference in the big picture, let the guilt go and decide to do it or not to do it. It's your decision and your responsibility to be true to yourself, and in every moment we can do so, more will be added will added unto us.

I'm sorry for going on and on. Thank any who take the time to read me.
Good night
Marcy

Dear Marcy,
I just read your message and it really spoke to me. I can't get over this forum and the fact that you can encounter all sorts of different people from all over the world who are also, like you, clearly searching for something deeper in their lives.

I particularly liked what you said about moving beyond the mind. I too find that my mind - which is rather heavy on the analytical side! - does clutter up the flow of life on a very regular basis! I haven't actually read the Course in Miracles (my mum read it a number of years ago), but, like you, I would find Eckhart Tolle's books to be very simple yet powerful.

I also practice SFQ to "step out of my mind", to bring it gradually in tune with my body and with a growing sense of energy within and around me. I recently joined a Tai Chi class and am finding that it is also helping me to achieve my original natural posture and to become aware of the flowing of "Qi" and how the simplest of daily, habitual movements can effectively block it. I am confident that this is no doubt helping my SFQ practice.

The other powerful practice for me has been Reiki which I have been learning over the last couple of years. The simplicity of laying your hands on your head or your throat and experiencing a flow and release of blocked energies really brings me out of my over-analytical/over-complicating self. Plus being able to do that for friends or family members who experience pain - is a wonderful thing for me as I have spent much of my life living with close relatives with chronic pain and illness and not being able to do anything about it. (even though of course with Reiki, Qigong and any of the genuine healing arts - "I" am not actually doing anything!!)

I was also surprised how convinced I was about Chunyi Lin from first looking at the book. I am naturally very skeptical - particularly of guru worship (I will remember that pun you described from now on!). I am half Austrian and constantly remind myself where mindless adulation can take a country and its people. But I realise also that there is a real difference between genuine mind-lessness or deep spiritual reconnection and a mind that is fixated on one way of seeing things - even though this fixation can naturally create a very convincing sense of "freedom" or release.

I suppose that what I really appreciate about Chunyi's philosophy has been his evident openness. For example, when he talks about your "Master"'s energy (on an analytical level I would become immediately wary of that concept) - he then immediately highlights that this "Master" COULD be Jesus, Lao Tzu or even he, Chunyi Lin. I like the fact that what he is merely emphasising is that healing energy is quite simply there if you are open to it - and the concept you decide to use to even begin opening up to this energy is entirely up to you. Hopefully you begin to lose the "concept" the more you practice.

Anyhow, if anyone's rambling on in this forum, it's me! I think there are possibly certificiates and accreditation for anyone who could even be bothered ploughing through all of my "mindless" babblings!

lots of love
Ingrid :0)

Hi Marcy and Ingrid,

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate the sharing.

The true essence is unity, such that there is no difference between "mind," "spirit," or even "body." True being is unity. Indeed, the difference between "you" and "me" is also an illusion.

As Master Lin puts it:

"I am in the Universe; the Universe in my body; the Universe and I are combined together."

Paraphrased:

"I am the Universe; the Universe is me; the Universe and I are One."

There is only One in enlightenment. Likewise, there is no separation in time, only One moment.

In Enlightenment, the binding constraints of programs, rituals, exercises, regiments, and practices vanish. Thanks for the reminder: The true Guru resides within, not without.

Fair Journey on the Path!

We meditate to learn to bypass the mind.

As we are humans, we are limited by having a body and because if this we are connected to time. Hence, we meditate to overcome our limitations.

To truly realise your question we would need to leave our physical body permanently.

According to David Hawkins' work into kinesiology and his book Power vs Force there are currently no individuals that calibrate to pure consciousness. Several calibrate to around 700 out of 1000 on a consciousness scale, but this to me would mean they are still attached to their human limitations in some manner.

Jesus and Buddha calibrated at 1000 and were the essence of pure truth. (Pity we have to work with the hand me downs and human error as their teachings have been passed down) According to the teachings of Buddhism, Buddha spent MANY lifetimes meditating to achieve enlightenment. Jesus was the Son of Christ.

Could they traverse time if they so wished? I think so. But could their human form exist across time also? I would think not. So what would be the natural inclination for someone who is expanding their consciousness, especially those that are enlightened? Meditation of course! We need to leave our physical form to truly become one with consciousness and dispense with time.

One of the questions posed in David Hawkins book (mentioned above) is "Am I my body?" The answer is no. "Do I have a body?"... Yes. We are energy beings, not the physical bodies we manifest in on Earth. Have fun with your body and your time on Earth. Use it wisely and meditate to strive for higher consciousness. When you die, hopefully you can stay connected with consciousness and become truly enlightened.

Thanks for the reference to David Hawkins' work in Kinesiology - I hadn't heard of him and to me Kinesiology has so far only related to food allergy testing and dietary/nutritional advice! There is obviously still much to learn!
You mention the duality of spirit and matter. Is it possible for these to be unified also? Would this be too paradoxical? Is it possible for us to be physical entities AND pure spirit simultaneously? Within Buddhism too there are disparities between theories of "emptiness". Is it possible to use meditation as a technique not to leave the body (as you put it) but instead to truly enter the body and realise what it is in "reality"?
Paradox seems always to be at the heart of these philosophies. Perhaps our paths to realisation are irrelevant at the end of the day, providing they each lead us to a shared destination which is truthful.
I suppose the fundamental questions remain "Who am "I"? and what does it really mean to "die" unto oneself while living?
best wishes
Ingrid

Hi Ingrid,

Very interesting read. That book is actually the first in a trilogy. I still have to get around to reading the next two as they are hard to get in Australia. He shows that kinesiology can be used in any area of life or to tell the truth of any statement or in fact anything you want.... He has also developed a scale of consciousness that is phenomenal.

Interesting points you have raised there. I feel you are right that our path is irrelevant and thinking about this it is also easy to see how different people's perspectives of the same thing may not even be the same.

I guess I am a bit limited in that I need proof of many things scientifically, the thought of a body existing across time just doesn't gel. But this is a duality I am imposing on myself, or is it? Perhaps the duality is actually our body. I can understand energy and I can see how it makes up everything in the universe. I have a firm belief that we are energy beings. This makes it logical for me that everything is energy and therefore the same.

My questions at the moment are because we are sentient beings unto ourselves, when we amalgamate do we cease to exist? Off to work on my ego I go