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Hi,

I have friends and relatives who spend, spend, spend, as though they have all the money in the world. And yet, they are the ones who are in the most debt and financial trouble. Sometimes, it is I who have to bail them out and forgive their debts.

Aren't they living with a true "abundance mentality", since they believe they always have more than enough, whereas in reality, they don't? Then, why are they in such financial trouble all the time?

Personally, I don't have much in the way of income or possessions, but I'm very careful with money. To me, that seems to be the only way to be financially responsible. But, doesn't that mean I won't get to experience true abundance, because I don't have an abundance mentality? At least I'm not in debt, though!

It's just ironic how things are in reality.








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Hi hartreefoch,

I do NOT see that as abundance of prosperity, But abundance of debt, stress and scarcity. They are creating more of that abundance in their life.

I see being debt free and spending within my current means as an advance along my abundance journey. I see myself drawing in more and more abundance in all areas of my life including finanical. And of course, that means I get to enjoy the pleasure of having more money available to grow and/or use now.

When people change there habits from living on credit, they actual experience more abundance because the money before spent on bank charges is available to play with.

Best,

[This message has been edited by fvtrader (edited February 14, 2006).]






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fvtrader,

Thanks for your thoughts. I understand your idea to live within your means, and not go into debt.

But would your handle on abundance mentality mean I don't need to save money in the bank, but to use up all my income entirely? Just trust the universe to supply what I need when the time comes and don't worry about a "rainy day"? And, if I wind up with more than I need to use for my immediate needs, I should freely give the overage away?








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Hi

You are welcome.

I take nature as the model. Life goes through cycles. In abundance years, animals and wise human invest/save part of it. With that model, the lean years don't affect you as those whom spend/use all get now.

Part of my abundance is having financial freedom. That means for me, passive investments that produce growth &/or income that adds to my abundance. Total financial freedom comes for me when I don't have to work ever again because my passive income exceeds my lifestyle desires.

Personally, if say I give away 5%, then that means I'm also dedicating 5% to my play account that isn't part of my normal living money.









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One of the ways to break out of the "my limited income" trap that can block your path to abundance is to tithe. That is give money away to something you think is worthwhile. And that means go beyond the cookies and appeals don't wait for them to ask. Instead look for a wworthwhile cause. Then give without needing for the recipient to know it's from you. Like if you know of a needy family on your street. Think of amount that you can give as a gift and then challenge yourself to double it. Do it with a joy in your heart. And don't tell them. Don't tell anyone who you've given money too or how much. It's energy You just moved a few sticks out of the way. Don't let them put the obstacles back .

What you are doing is expressing the abundance of energy that money really is. If you can give away an amount with sheer joy That's abundance and it opens the channels because you are acknowledging that money is merely a physical representation of energy that you can allow to flow into your live by experiencing the gladness of the flow.

Another thing to do is to be happy when you are paying a bill. Not fret about it be glad to be giving them the money. Whether you've noticed it or not money flows much better when you are happy.

Alex






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Thanks for your responses, fvtrader and Alex,

I appreciate the spirit in which you made nature your model, fvtrader. I, too save, so I hear you all the way. I guess, though, what I'm trying to struggle with is the difference between what is "natural" and what is "super-natural."

That is, if we really took nature as a model, well, there are a plenty of "bad" examples one can take, for example ...

* Natural selection = the basis of eugneics, Nazism, elitism, etc. Killing handicapped/disabled/elderly members, because they take up limited resources, which are better allocated to those who can successfully reproduce.

* Mass destruction, for example, hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, asteroid impacts, wiping out vast amounts of life quickly.

* Mass pollution, for example volcanic eruptions spilling millions of times more CO2 and soot into the air in weeks than humans could ever do in centuries.

* Dog-eat-dog ... Outside of one's own pack, there's no forgiveness or mercy in the natural order. It's kill or be killed; conquer or be conquered.

* Incest, pedophilia, rape, orgies, depception, greed, rage, murder ... all abound in "nature" and there are no laws or justice. It simply happens, and life goes on.

* Disease, parasitism ... all are very natural!

I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

It seems like to be an enlightened human, one must go beyond nature, to become super-natural, and not go by what is observed "naturally."

Your take?






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Is the enlight souls that stand for prosperity, enrich lives, ...

Those people stand up in past, now, and in future for wholeness, beauty, quality,...

I see everyone is part of nature. It's what you do with it that determines what kind of abundance you will experience in your life.








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Hmm ....

I wonder which trance is better, that nature is kind and supportive, or that nature is what it is.

[This message has been edited by hartreefoch (edited February 17, 2006).]






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Hartreefoch,
Hey how are you?
Ive read alot of what you've wrote and it seems like theres too much negativity in your thought process, you listed six things that you see as bad with this world, I totally agree with you, I mean who wouldnt.
You might not be aware of it but looking at what you wrote about and are focusing on are the negative aspects of life, therefore I undertand why its so hard for you see what the course is all about. The things that we think about, positive or negative will determine what the outcomes will be for our future or the percieved future, too much negativity in our thought process and you will see a negative outcome and the same goes with being positive. like Alex said its taken you your whole life to develop whatever thought process you have right now so dont expect to change it overnight, too much so quickly.
We are constantly bombarded with negativity, through the news, the media, after witnessing it for yourself, the people whom you socialise with will bring it up again, there are more negative than positive that goes through our mind from day to day, nowonder more than 90% of people in this world dont get what they want because too much negativity will tell you logically that there are limitations, we are not even aware of these thoughts taking place so how are we to better ourselves and exdend our limits bits at a time in order to reach what we want, thats where this course comes in, it enables you to realise alot of things about how things really are.
Being consciously aware of this is a good start, throughout the course the paraliminals help speed up the process of the change that you desire..
Ask yourself if the contents in this course make any sense whatsoever and if it does than does it really matter who is saying it or where it came from or whatever, just use the material as it is intended to.
Im sure your a very intelectual person stuborn and dont take challenges very lightly and dont like being wrong (eventhough we are wrong from time to time, we are only human its natural) therefore you make up alot of things to justify your conclusions or your view about something. be aware of the posibility that your view might be a negative one and that your bringing up more negative stories to justify your view just so that your right to whomever your telling the story to. Dont worry so much about your image, I'd focus more on the stories Im telling myself, and ask myself whether or not it supports what I want for my future...
You listed six bad things about the world we live in.... now write down 6 things that you percieve as good things in the world you live in..
Take care






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liuaki,

Thanks for your heartfelt advice. Yes, positive positive. Positive thinking is something that gurus of all colors and creeds have been preaching. I envy those who can be positive all the time. Seems like the more I "try" (forgive me, Alex for using that word), the more I eventually go back to the negatives. For awhile, the world looks peachy, but then REALITY wakes me up from the "positive trance."

Anyway, I suppose life is a life-long lesson that we're all going through. I hope one day I can be as positive as the people running this forum. You guys all seem to be other-worldly. More power to ya!







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FVTrader ... sounds like you've been to a Millionaire's Mind seminar. Very T. Harv Ecker your words!

To the guy who started this thread:

Management of our resources does not mean we are living in lack.

Abundance mentality comes from BELIEVING you will have more than you need to live a life of prosperity on every level and being a good steward of that abundance.

Being a spendthrift while ignoring you haven't the funds to spend is not abundance mentality.






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Thanks for all the feedback ... but, then, what is the difference at all between abundance mentality and good ol' common sense? I've always been taught to live my life with the philosophy that that if I'm diligent about what I do, success will follow, and be wise with money / time management, etc., etc., etc. Any good parent / teacher / preacher / book will tell you the same.






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That "common" sense ? You mean the herd mentality that keeps all the sheep in the same old rut?

Alex






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Alex,

Regarding the "herd mentality" and "the same old rut", it occurred to me that operations like LSC (and society as a whole) could not exist without a vast support base of people who are all entranced. Imagine what would happen if EVERYONE all of a sudden bought into the abundance mentality and expected the universe to instantaneously manifest their every desire, need, want without effort. Then, NO ONE would go to work at "the same old rut", and modern society as we know it would collapse overnight.

If you really think about it, those who expect to manifest abundance in their lives require an army of "slaves" who are entranced to make that abundance meaningful. After all, the notion of "financial independence" requires a society of workers who are motivated by money to work for those who give them that money, that is, they are entranced. If you really wanted to wake them up out of their trance and are 100% successful, then you'll have eliminated your entire support structure ... no one to mine the materials for your CD's, forest the trees for your paper, burn the coal for your electricity, get rid all the garbage/trash you created, drive the delivery trucks/trains/planes, etc., etc. ...

I (along with most people on Earth) would like to be "financially independent". But then I realize that in order for that to be the wonderful thing it is suppose to represent, I'm relying on millions of less-fortunate souls who are working "the same old rut", and hope they never discover my secret! This is the painful reality of the abundance mentality that is starting to bother me.

Maybe that's why AFL is priced so high that the vast majority of the population can't afford it? So that you can maintain a good portion of entranced slaves to serve the wealthy?

Forgive my cynicism, but I'm as guilty as everyone else who desires financial freedom.






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Here's my take on this - I've just received the AFL course and have not listened to anything yet.

My take on this is that I would not be happy very long just sitting around doing "nothing" My greatest joy comes from helping others, helping mankind, helping animals, the earth, etc. Yes, I bought the AFL program to help me be more abundant in all areas of my life. Though I know I'm really happy right where I am, right now, I am seeking more. I don't have to be "rich" in terms of money to be happy. But I am seeking more and am willing to learn more to be able to open up to more. That is just where I am right now.

Here's my take on your issue with money. First there is enough for everyone as the universe is abundant and there is no limit (please don't go off into thinking about radical unlimitedness such as chopping down all the trees in the world and that effect or we'll be going in circles all day - I'm not speaking of that type of unlimitedness The God I believe in is limitless and will bless us.


Money makes the world go round so to speak. So if every one was happy and abundant / doing what makes them prosperous then they would be contributing and exchanging their skills / talents / goods for money. They would then be able to buy your goods / talents / skills. You'd make money doing what you love and so would every one else! You're thinking that prosperity means sitting around all day staring at the wall if there are no worker ants to supply? That is not my idea of a prosperity filled world and a fullfilling life at all. I don't want to get rich and do nothing - I would not be fullfilled (for a while it would be fun to run around on grand vacations but after a while I'd want more meaning to my life) Most super rich people do "good" in the world, they run charities, they visit the sick, they loby for parks and nature, their favorite ball team, run a business, play pro ball, etc. - they do things that make them feel good inside and feel worth while, things that make them feel useful and needed.

Could it be your ego that is keeping you safe with these "thoughts" of yours? The ego is great at keeping us from any type of change - it wants to keep things the same as that is what it knows as safe. One could rationalize themselves out of any change as you seem to be doing. Try to just be open to change.

I know that is part of my "problem" right now. "CHANGE" That is what set me on the path to this program and other things I'm doing. Things are changing in my life and I don't want them to - brutal honesty here. I'm scared and sick to death at times - what to do ? what to do? My job is changing and I want it to remain the same. My dad passed away 2 months ago and I want him back. My husband is sick and I want him healed, My son has ldyslexia with an extremely high IQ and I want to fix the dyslexia for him so he can be successful, etc. Though I know I have a great / blessed life right now I also know it is time to face forward and move on / not just hang on / nor just endure graciously what ever I'm handed. I'm ready to be empowered.

Lisa






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Lisa,

I appreciate your heartfelt response and I wish you more power in your attaining abundance.

I think I didn't express my core thought clearly enough ... what I meant is that in order for our modern society to function, there are lots and lots and lots of jobs and tasks that people only do because they have to, that no one who is wealthy and priviledged would want to do, that probably no one in their right minds would want to do, but which are vitally necessary for our society to go on. The only reason why people do them, though, is because they "have" to, in order to survive, to make a living, to pay the bills. If everyone were truly "enlightened" and awoke from the limitation trance, all these jobs would be vacated really, really fast, and our modern comforts and societies would evaporate. So, it's in the interest of the wealthy/enlightened to keep a fair portion of the population under the darkness of unenlightenment.

Objectively, why parents want their kids to get more education, better jobs, and more money is to spare them from those jobs which are relagated to the less educated, less capable, and less wealthy ... all the "dirty jobs" ... and to enable them to enjoy their lives in relative comfort and ease. That's what makes "abundance" (in terms of wealth) so attractive. That's why everyone wants it.

Look at the ads for the AFL itself ... it promises all the "good" things in life, the glitter and gold and all that constitute a "good life," all without conscious effort.

I know people can put a spin on abundance to say that it is more than wealth, that it is a change in attitude, so that even while a sanitation-employee is scraping filth out of the sewer system, he or she can think it's their life's calling and purpose and be happy as the billionaire who's making that filth. But I think that's a spin which, taken to its extreme, is more damaging than good, because it doesn't free us at all ... it just makes us happier slaves. While AFL doesn't explicitly do that, there's a hint of it, which raises a few red flags in my mind that there's a little bait-and-switch going on. After all, if you can successfully redefine "abundance" to mean "contentment", well, then of course the program will work!

Anyway, AFL is definitely a life-long learning process, and I'm just actively trying to find consistency in my beliefs and practices.

Best to you on your journey!

[This message has been edited by hartreefoch (edited March 03, 2006).]






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hartreefoch,
Who do you think would be happier? The person who doesnt know much and live a simple life or the person who knows alot and doesnt do anything with what they know?
You dont know how those people would feel if they were enlightened and for them to be just happier slaves, what they do before and after has absolutely nothing to do with you or how the world will turn out to be like. yeah society might collapse, it might also take on a different dirrection, it doesnt have to go downward. Look at how different the technology is today than from 4000yrs ago during ancient civilizations, even look back at 200yrs ago, we as human being adapt to our environment, even the environment we have created..

Theres a possibility that you were sorrounded with narrow minded people growing up as a child and took on their ways of thinking therefore surrounding yourself with negative situations which helped prove to yourself that what you percieve the world to be was right according to your beliefs.(negative beliefs).
You can not assume that the world will go a certain direction because you dont know what is going on inside their heads, everyone had a different up bringing, if you want put it on a scale from -10 to +10. of cause there would be loads more people in -10 to -5 then there would be in +5 to +10. The question is where would you find yourself, honestly, cause youd be just lieing to youself. Now where would you like to be? even at +10 is not immpossible because there is someone there otherwise there wouldnt be a +10...
If you find it hard to see how negative you are towards alot of things, then I think this AFL is a bit too much for you... even thou its designed for averyone.
Try reading up on spychology so that you can begin to comprehend the basics of the human mind and how it works, you might even see just how a sigle thought can have an impact on the physical world.. untill then dont share with us your generalisation on how the world will turn out and especially how people will feel because you dont know, they are your assumptions based on references from your past, which is filled with negativity, its written all over everything you have written up on this forum.if you disagree, I can understand, nobody likes to be told they are wrong which is not my intentions here, I want you to see that your percption of the world and how people will feel given a certain situation is not the only one and that there is that possibility that you could be wrong..
I would focus on me first instead of worrying about the whole world at first.
Thinking too much about how everyone is/would be experiencing the world wont do you much good, Focus your enerygy on how YOU are feeling right now and how YOU would like to feel therefore experiencee this world.. work on yourself and stop refering to others, those are just exuses to justify why you havent being working on yourself or why you havent got the result your after..
all the best to you.







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I got this from a Richard Bandler CD ( a set with various topics) but this one came from the prosperity/abundance one:

Many years ago, there was no money in the world. Now look at how much money there is!

How much money has been created in the last 500 years? The last 100 years?

As the population grows, so does the abundance.

Hartree, How do you know that the people working those "have to" jobs aren't ecstatic because otherwise they'd be living in a cardboard box in an alley?

Personally, (And this is just me) I find it very condacending and arrogant to assume that I know anything about the reasons and beliefs and life situations of people I've never met....

Again, thats just me.

Personally, I'm closing in on 40 yo. At one point in my life, I had close to a quarter mill. Just a few months ago, I had to borrow money from my mom. Currently, I make enought to pay the bills and save a little extra. But the AFL course is teaching me how much POTENTIAL there is in the world, for EVERYONE. for that I am grateful. Very grateful.

Just the feeling exercise alone has taught me much. When I look into strangers eyes, I see greatness in everyone. Everyone.

Whether or not I come close to or surpass my previous wealth, I know that true happiness is within my grasp, because, it is within me.

And that is all you need to know.

George






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For the sake of an example lets say there are no more worker ants for McDonald’s - would that be truly awful ? - LOL . We might have to cook nutritious meals at home - but with enlightenment we would find pure joy in doing that for ourselves? But then there would be people who love to cook and would maybe open up a restaurant and we would pay them what it is worth to not have to cook at home?

Maybe with an ALL enlightened world we would not need worker ants for those low jobs as these low jobs would be obsolete?

If there were no low menial workers, then man would simply invent another way. PERIOD - it always happens - man is always devising a better more efficient way that requires fewer low paying menial jobs. Just look at history.

As you can see, I'm going way beyond just more money for more leisure life and things. In my opinion if every one was enlightened then you’re right - it WOULD be a truly different world - a world I cannot really get a grasp of as I just don't know but I choose to believe that it would be better - much better - not an awful collapse into nothingness or chaos and neediness.


Just so you know: I’m not trying to bash you as I do truly see where your coming from - My brain can do the same thing - in fact I do it quite often - run myself in circles with logical “arguments” BUT I am trying to help you see that you have to choose to want to change and get out of your own way.

& For the sake of baby steps so to speak: If you choose to see it simply as another trance - then which trance would you rather be in ????

Love and light,
Lisa








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quote:

Regarding the "herd mentality" and "the same old rut", it occurred to me that operations like LSC (and society as a whole) could not exist without a vast support base of people who are all entranced.

Who says that "operations like LSC" needs to exist if everyone had the skills to manifest whatever they wanted out of thin air. The people of LSC would continue to manifest their desires in other ways... just like everyone else they would be manifesting what they need out of thin air too. Aright their egos might not get stoked from watching people they help succeed. We have ways to manifest that too when we manifest all that we need and desire.


quote:
magine what would happen if EVERYONE all of a sudden bought into the abundance mentality and expected the universe to instantaneously manifest their every desire, need, want without effort. Then, NO ONE would go to work at "the same old rut", and modern society as we know it would collapse overnight.

Not everyone who "buys into the abundance mentality quits work." The majority find ways of being more productive doing what they like. If you look closely those who have moved into the abundance mentality play more at their "work" We don't call it work anymore it is something we do for the sheer joy of it.

Abundance isn't only money. It is being able to appreciate what life has to offer. Permitting yourself to feel and express your joy as you go about your "work". You can feel rich standing on a beach watching a golden sunset and children build water channels racing against the waves. And all you have is one penny in your pocket.

In that moment you don't need the penny sitting in your pocket or even the $10,000,000 in the bank . They are just numbers waiting for a turn to play a role of energy transaction when the time is right. Such a transaction can take two minutes in a day for the other 1438 minutes of this day it means nothing.

So what is "Abundance Mentality " ?

Those who have it enjoy their lives a lot more and they can even enjoy their lives when they ask, "Do you want Fries with that?"

Alex






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quote:
Originally posted by liuaki_F:

yeah society might collapse, it might also take on a different dirrection, it doesnt have to go downward.

Good point. Maybe the sanitation worker will have an epiphany and engineer a robotic sewer cleaning device. And when robots evolve intelligence/emotions, someone can sell them the AFL for another leap in societal evolution.

quote:
Originally posted by liuaki_F:

If you find it hard to see how negative you are towards alot of things, then I think this AFL is a bit too much for you... even thou its designed for averyone.

Good point. Sorry for being an AFL idiot.

quote:
Originally posted by liuaki_F:

.. untill then dont share with us your generalisation on how the world will turn out and especially how people will feel because you dont know, they are your assumptions based on references from your past, which is filled with negativity, its written all over everything you have written up on this forum.if you disagree, I can understand, nobody likes to be told they are wrong which is not my intentions here, I want you to see that your percption of the world and how people will feel given a certain situation is not the only one and that there is that possibility that you could be wrong..

Please forgive me for upsetting your delicate AFL balance. I can see that I'm just too idiotic to understand it.

quote:
Originally posted by liuaki_F:

I would focus on me first instead of worrying about the whole world at first. Thinking too much about how everyone is/would be experiencing the world wont do you much good, Focus your enerygy on how YOU are feeling right now and how YOU would like to feel therefore experiencee this world.. work on yourself and stop refering to others, those are just exuses to justify why you havent being working on yourself or why you havent got the result your after..


In the higher view of the universe, there is no "you" and "me". There is only One. If AFL were congruent with that philosophy, it would be made free to all. As it is, a tinge of hypocrisy exists.

But thanks for the chastisement. I hope "you" will be abundant in all "you" do.







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quote:
Originally posted by gwhutton:

Hartree, How do you know that the people working those "have to" jobs aren't ecstatic because otherwise they'd be living in a cardboard box in an alley?

Good point. It's very soothing to see a garbage person and tell myself that he's ecstatic taking away my garbage as his life's calling. Nice.

quote:
Originally posted by gwhutton:

Personally, (And this is just me) I find it very condacending and arrogant to assume that I know anything about the reasons and beliefs and life situations of people I've never met....
Again, thats just me.

Forgive me for my arrogance and condacension. The next time I see the septic-tank technician, I'll remind myself he's thrilled to be fulfulling his life's mission managing the waste of his masters.

quote:
Originally posted by gwhutton:

And that is all you need to know.

I'm very happy to hear you're very happy with paying half-a-grand for this wisdom. LSC is very happy, too.








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quote:
Originally posted by lisa:

Maybe with an ALL enlightened world we would not need worker ants for those low jobs as these low jobs would be obsolete?

Awesome point. Thanks.

quote:
Originally posted by lisa:

As you can see, I'm going way beyond just more money for more leisure life and things. In my opinion if every one was enlightened then you’re right - it WOULD be a truly different world - a world I cannot really get a grasp of as I just don't know but I choose to believe that it would be better - much better - not an awful collapse into nothingness or chaos and neediness.


Actually, I think if that happened, society would eventually become restored to the more pristine, "primitive" societies, some of which are still in existance today, for example, the Indonesian Java island tribes, etc. I think as a whole, people in those societies are much happier than the average person in the industrialized, modern nations.

Money and wealth separate the populous. They create classes which are entirely human constructs. Those with money become masters; those without it becomes slaves. Happy slaves are still slaves. And slaves strive to become masters, while masters (most of them anyway), strive to keep slaves around.

Communism began as a desire to equalize all people. Hence the appeal of communes today. Capitalism dominates the world economies, however, because human nature is based on greed and insecurity. History has shown capitalism works, while communism doesn't, but it's a sad commentary on human nature, not a triumph.

After all, the machinery behind getting AFL into your hands is based on capitalism. If AFL really wanted to help all people become enlightened equally, it would be given away freely. Let's face it ... it has probably already earned back its production cost many times over. And yet, it's still prohibitavely expensive to the vast majority of the worker-ant-slaves in society.

quote:
Originally posted by lisa:

For the sake of baby steps so to speak: If you choose to see it simply as another trance - then which trance would you rather be in ????

As long as we agree it's another trance. Paul makes it sound like we're waking up from a trance into "reality," but I think more objectively, it's just replacing a non-functional trance into a functional one. I'm not sure we're mature enough as a society to REALLY wake up from all trances, because doing so would require changing the foundations of our modern society and re-inventing it from the ground up. No one really wants to do that.


quote:
Originally posted by lisa:

Love and light,
Lisa

To you, too.







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quote:
Originally posted by Alex K. Viefhaus:

Abundance isn't only money. It is being able to appreciate what life has to offer. Permitting yourself to feel and express your joy as you go about your "work". You can feel rich standing on a beach watching a golden sunset and children build water channels racing against the waves. And all you have is one penny in your pocket.

Believe me, those magical moments happen 1000x1000 times more often to those with only one penny to their net-worth statement, than those who have a few Mils+ in their banks. And the former didn't have to dish out 52,500 red pennies to realize it.

AH - I just had an ah-ha moment ... I suddenly realized why AFL is priced out of the reach of the vast majority of the population, so that only the rich can afford it! The reason is because the REAL target of the AFL program is those who are already miserably rich, who can't find happiness in all their dough. They have to pay to learn what the poor already know naturally!






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Since your posts reflect what make you happy and direction you want to take.

By the way learning the way of a Abundance for life is free. Learning Strategies just created a course that allows you to learn it faster. Life will teach you what you are willing to learn for free.

Alex






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hartreefoch,
what is it thats really bothering you? youve got some heavy issues. Is it because you havent got the results you were expecting out of the course and now you are looking for something to put the blame on so youve come up with all these idiotic ideas to put down LSC. You think your so smart and yet you cant even understand what the whole AFL concept is all about. these trances that Paul.S talks about in the AFL it is used as an example for you to understand the it totally. Everybody knows what a trance is so everyone can relate this material to it. Whether you are really in a trance or not is irrelevent, its about what works congruently between the two worlds, the physical world and the world inside your head. Paul is showing you what has been happening and will continue to do so with or without you, how the two worlds compromises and works with eachother and how you can use it to your benefit at a conscious level (at will)
You said yourself that its waking up from a non-functioning trance to a functioning trance, wouldnt you rather a trance thats functioning well? you are only making it hard for yourself to learn and accept the whole concept.
Can you think of another way to better explain the context in AFL so that others would understand it, Paul has done a fantastic job with the presentation of AFL and if you dont appreciate that, then its clear that you dont understand fully what he has done.
This course has worked for others and is working for alot of people, some at first see a change and some dont but they are persistant with it, they keep at it and they eventually see what they are after it might be something little but they feed feeling and it gets bigger. how can you make this course work for you? CAUSE OBVIOUSLY YOUVE GOT NO BENEFITS OUT OF IT. Your ideas and beliefs from your past is stopping you, question it. these are stop signs that we created to keep us in our comfort zone, to protect us from possible harm that might come our way if we decided to step out of our comfort zone.
Besides what you think what LSC is about, raoting people by putting high prices on it or its only targeting the rich or whatever your conclusion is about LSC, just put that aside for now and tell me this, do you agree with the concepts presented on AFL? forget about everyone else for now, forget everyone on this forum, Lisa, Alex, myself and anyone else whose having a go at your opinion. forget who is presenting the material to you.forget Paul and Bobbie and everyone that help put it all together for you, do you agee with the concept? or do you think that it works differently? if so then how would it work? I mean how will you manifest what you want if the concepts on AFL does not apply to the real world?







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Hi . I could not help thinking about the responses to avoiding prosperity posted here:

hartreefoch posted:
Good point. It's very soothing to see a garbage person and tell myself that he's ecstatic taking away my garbage as his life's calling. Nice.


gwhutton responded:

Personally, (And this is just me) I find it very condacending and arrogant to assume that I know anything about the reasons and beliefs and life situations of people I've never met....
Again, thats just me.

--------------------------------------------------------and then hartreefoch responded:

Forgive me for my arrogance and condacension. The next time I see the septic-tank technician, I'll remind myself he's thrilled to be fulfulling his life's mission managing the waste of his masters.


------------------------------------------------------
I am Raleigh. I empathize with hartreefoch completely! I thought about the concept before I decided to post this. I was laughing inside, as I went through this type of negative thinking, during the 1960s hippy revolution. Consider the fact that LSC allows many of us to live up to more of our potentials and follow our inner bliss--- Does that mean the "unfortunate" people out there who do not buy into LSC and choose instead to do different things to find bliss; such as collecting garbage,-- suffer??!!
I contend that they may be happier than those of us who require much creative academic challenge to be happy. We must appreciate people have different learning styles and different values in life than we do.


I began observing people in tradees/professions that do not utilize verbal, creative, literary, and analytical skills. I notice that many people in those trades/professions are very uncomfortable doing things like writing, reading, verbalizing, and seeking conflict resolutions for a living or even engaging in such things at all, in their personal time. They eschew the activities that most of the people who post here, thrive off of.

The fact that LSC has helped me explore my inner genius and find fulfillment should not make me feel guilty that the guys who love emptying garbage are unhappy. How can I assume what makes another man happy or unhappy?

When I was in college in the late 1970s, I remember the "hippies" at the time rebelled at the grading curve system. They felt that striving for As to be happy, inevitably meant there was eventual unhappiness for the people who had to get Ds and Fs. I actually started feeling guilty about studying hard , during that time period, and I can empathize and relate to what is being brought up on this post.

I have come to learn that those who get Ds and Fs went on to do great things . E..g. Rich Dad Poor Dad, author Robert T Kiyosaki did not do well in academia, but went on to prosper spiritually and economically in the investment world.

In my opinion, if you find your bliss, embrace it and do not feel guilty. Be there for people who ask for help and be available for the people who request to learn from you. However, do not assume, that everyone else is sufferring because you are succeeding at what you value as an individual. One man's meat may be another man's poison. One man's poison ( e.g. collecting garbage from the masses) could be another man's treasured occupation.

One day , hartreefoch, you will be laughing about this, although I know now you are probably not laughing. I was once there; been there, done that.
I held myself back for the wrong reasons, and did not live up to my potential. Please don't make the same mistake that I did.

Raleigh

[This message has been edited by raleigh199 (edited March 22, 2006).]






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Raleigh,

Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate your viewpoint, as well as everyone who responded.

Well, I just deleted a lengthy reply / rebuttal.

Instead, I've decided that I should channel that energy into manifesting abundance in my life, and take your advice about not worrying about the apparent contradiction in the unfairness which it seems would be the logical result.

You're right - who am I to question the fairness of the universe? If AFL philosophies make my life full of abundance, then I'm sure the message will in the right time spread to all those who are receptive to it, including the garbage man. I'll not fret anymore over all the rational ramifications and just be grateful enough to enjoy the abundance which enters my life.

Thanks to all again! Abundance to all






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Actually, the other day, I was watching the Discovery Channel and a program called "Dirty Jobs" which examines all the really dirty jobs people do to make our civilization possible. Mike Rowe, the host, asked one person who's profession it was to clean out sewage disasters (such as when the city sewer backs up into someone's basement ... YUCK!) why he chose to stay in this line of work, and his response was really impressive: he explained that a few years back, he experienced the same sewage disaster in his own home, and was affected by it so deeply that he wanted to spend his time helping others in that situation. So, he now he's got a job cleaning up sewage disasters, and it's very fulfiling to him. What a guy!

Anyway, the show is quite entertaining, and all the folks who do the dirty jobs in our society seem very happy, at least on the TV show. I guess I've just been brainwashed by my parents who raised me with threats such as, if you don't do well in school, you'll wind up a garbage man, etc. Oh well. Hmm ... maybe a job in sanitation engineering would be quite fun and satisfying after all, hee hee






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I can't help responding to this discussion...

You see, I am a sanitation engineer! I'm in research, but believe mee, I have seen it tasted it, showered with it (!!!) etc. And it's OK. It's teh perfect job for me, I enjoy it.






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Amazing and Awesome, Oxygen!

I know I speak on behalf of all of modern civilization in thanking you and your colleagues for raising the standard of life for all of us.

Actually, I've often wondered about waste management, especially in the sense of recycling. I like that scene in Back-to-the-Future when Doc puts a banana peel and empties a discarded can of beer into Mr. Fusion to power his Lamborghini. Turning waste back into usable energy is the holy grail of waste management, I'm sure. Surely would solve our current energy crunch! Hmm ... perhaps this should be manifested!






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I had interesting experience in Hong Kong. We where walking on market street and suddenly a Buddhist monk walked by and he had great power arround him. He was smiling and walked straight towards me. He looked me in the eye and I was filled with power.
He was collecting money like the monks do and he was doing this with style I say. It looked that he enjoyed each split second of life. And I gave him all that I had in my pockets.
So some other person could have thought that what such a dirty job the monk was doing like collecting money...
It's interesting to see that we really see the world through our own values and beliefs.
I believe that enlightened person could do any kind of job in the world with full of joy, because it would be good for the mankind. And job, that would not be good for mankind would not be done.
From my perspective enlightened person would not do things for just own benefit, but for the benefit of whole mankind.
I believe that love is the essence from everything is created, even if life sometimes looks the opposite. Love is life and life is everything.
But I still believe that one needs to use money carefully. And that positive thinking is good, but it's not enough to success. I learned this from the Reciliency course.

[This message has been edited by Eric_G (edited March 25, 2006).]






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Thanks for sharing that experience. Yes, I often give money to the poor who beg on the streets. Sometimes I think they make more money than I do






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